Corundum (Sapphire and Ruby) Warnings

[serenitydiamonds]

There have been a lot of reports lately of synthetic corundum being sold online via eBay directly from Thailand as natural with unbelievably low prices. When buying gemstones directly from the source country it is important to inspect and check for synthetics prior to purchase. Most synthetics and glassed stones are attempted to be sold to unsuspecting tourists. With the internet these same suppliers are attempting to sell online via eBay and other sources claiming them gemstones as natural and ''direct from the source''. It''s really important to always deal with trusted vendors, and extremely important to exercise extreme caution when purchasing gems close to the gem markets. The closer you are to the source of the gems the higher the probability of a fake or synthetic stone being passed in front of you.

--Joshua

 

[chrono]

Josh,
This is a good reminder, thank you. Personally, I don’t buy from eBay unless it is one of our more well known and trusted vendors who happens to run a clearance or something similar. When it comes to corundum, trust but verify. Especially for more expensive and unheated pieces, I’d go for certification from a reputable lab as well.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 11/12/2009 7:41:30 AM
Author:serenitydiamonds
There have been a lot of reports lately of synthetic corundum being sold online via eBay directly from Thailand as natural with unbelievably low prices. When buying gemstones directly from the source country it is important to inspect and check for synthetics prior to purchase. Most synthetics and glassed stones are attempted to be sold to unsuspecting tourists. With the internet these same suppliers are attempting to sell online via eBay and other sources claiming them gemstones as natural and ''direct from the source''. It''s really important to always deal with trusted vendors, and extremely important to exercise extreme caution when purchasing gems close to the gem markets. The closer you are to the source of the gems the higher the probability of a fake or synthetic stone being passed in front of you.

--Joshua

The time to get worried is when synthetic corundum is being sold as natural at standard market prices for natural stones. Anyone who thinks they can get nice-looking natural sapphire at unbelievably low prices should not be disappointed when they receive a synthetic sapphire.

By the way, Thailand is no longer much of a source country for sapphire. Almost all of the sapphire cut and traded in Thailand comes from Sri Lanka, Australia, Madagascar, Tanzania and Kenya. There is some sapphire sold as originating in Thailand, but with the exception of the black star sapphires from Chanthaburi and the few Kanchanaburi sapphires, most of it is actually mined in Australia.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Thanks Joshua for the reminder.
Advice like this should be a sticky for all newbies and oldies to read

 

[morecarats]

Warning on gem fraud are always timely, but not exactly new. Here''s a famous one:

"I have in my library certain books by authors now living, whom I would under no circumstances name, wherein there are descriptions as to how to give the color of smaragdus (emerald) to crystallus (rock crystal) and how to imitate other transparent gems: for example, how to make a sardonychus (sardonyx) from a sarda (carnelian, in part sard): in a word to transform one stone into another. To tell the truth, there is no fraud or deceit in the world which yields greater gain and profit that that of counterfeiting gems."

- Pliny (23-79 AD), from his History of the World

 

[LD]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:21:53 PM
Author: morecarats
Warning on gem fraud are always timely, but not exactly new. Here''s a famous one:

''I have in my library certain books by authors now living, whom I would under no circumstances name, wherein there are descriptions as to how to give the color of smaragdus (emerald) to crystallus (rock crystal) and how to imitate other transparent gems: for example, how to make a sardonychus (sardonyx) from a sarda (carnelian, in part sard): in a word to transform one stone into another. To tell the truth, there is no fraud or deceit in the world which yields greater gain and profit that that of counterfeiting gems.''

- Pliny (23-79 AD), from his History of the World

But they are welcome on here. Not everybody on this forum is in the industry and therefore welcomes all types of warnings.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/12/2009 8:37:12 AM
Author: morecarats

Date: 11/12/2009 7:41:30 AM

Author:serenitydiamonds

There have been a lot of reports lately of synthetic corundum being sold online via eBay directly from Thailand as natural with unbelievably low prices. When buying gemstones directly from the source country it is important to inspect and check for synthetics prior to purchase. Most synthetics and glassed stones are attempted to be sold to unsuspecting tourists. With the internet these same suppliers are attempting to sell online via eBay and other sources claiming them gemstones as natural and ''direct from the source''. It''s really important to always deal with trusted vendors, and extremely important to exercise extreme caution when purchasing gems close to the gem markets. The closer you are to the source of the gems the higher the probability of a fake or synthetic stone being passed in front of you.


--Joshua

The time to get worried is when synthetic corundum is being sold as natural at standard market prices for natural stones. Anyone who thinks they can get nice-looking natural sapphire at unbelievably low prices should not be disappointed when they receive a synthetic sapphire.


By the way, Thailand is no longer much of a source country for sapphire. Almost all of the sapphire cut and traded in Thailand comes from Sri Lanka, Australia, Madagascar, Tanzania and Kenya. There is some sapphire sold as originating in Thailand, but with the exception of the black star sapphires from Chanthaburi and the few Kanchanaburi sapphires, most of it is actually mined in Australia.

I definitely agree that would be worse, however the goal of this forum is to educate people, and some newbies to the forum are unaware that buying directly from market sources would be more risky than at home. It runs counter intuitive to other items which are usually safer when closer to the market source and have less markup.

True, Thailand is not a mined source for those stones much anymore. However, it is a market source as most of the cutting and trading occurs in this location. So tourists or online buyers may try to purchase directly from the manufacturer believing it to be a good deal only to be rudely surprised.

I posted this as there have been a significant amount of reports lately on fraud from market sources with synthetic being portrayed as natural with certificates to match. Buyers were rudely interrupted when they took their gem to a real lab.

Trading in Thailand can be risky, I myself have had people try and pass glass filled off as completely un-enhanced and I want the other buyers to be aware of the risks. If trading in Thailand they should stick with trusted vendors with a good reputation and avoid ebay outlets/etc.

--Joshua

 

[morecarats]

Joshua, I couldn''t agree withy you more. I have been warning people about the perils of buying from eBay since I''ve been on this forum, though many people still insist there are great bargains to be had there. Just this week we had one lady on PS who bought an ametrine on eBay for $6 who was told by her local jeweler that the stone was worth $2K. But you can''t reason with some people.

I recommend that buyers insist on lab certification even when buying from reliable dealers. Fraud is rife in the industry, though a lot of it is due to ignorance rather than deception. Just this week a broker wanted to sell us a stunning large peridot. We insisted on a lab test at AIGS before we bought it. It tested as synthetic sapphire. The broker was completely surprised, he just assumed it was natural peridot.

We had another recent case of a local factory who wanted to sell us some nice looking onyx that they had cut from rough stone purchased from a local mine. We were considering a large parcel so we had some samples tested before we closed the deal, even though this is inexpensive material. The samples tested as black spinel, a more valuable stone. It''s hard to argue with the old saying, "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by mere stupidity."

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/13/2009 9:12:18 AM
Author: morecarats
Joshua, I couldn''t agree withy you more. I have been warning people about the perils of buying from eBay since I''ve been on this forum, though many people still insist there are great bargains to be had there. Just this week we had one lady on PS who bought an ametrine on eBay for $6 who was told by her local jeweler that the stone was worth $2K. But you can''t reason with some people.


I recommend that buyers insist on lab certification even when buying from reliable dealers. Fraud is rife in the industry, though a lot of it is due to ignorance rather than deception. Just this week a broker wanted to sell us a stunning large peridot. We insisted on a lab test at AIGS before we bought it. It tested as synthetic sapphire. The broker was completely surprised, he just assumed it was natural peridot.


We had another recent case of a local factory who wanted to sell us some nice looking onyx that they had cut from rough stone purchased from a local mine. We were considering a large parcel so we had some samples tested before we closed the deal, even though this is inexpensive material. The samples tested as black spinel, a more valuable stone. It''s hard to argue with the old saying, ''Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by mere stupidity.''

lol. Yeah I''ve had about the same experience with brokers out there. I basically need to carry the lab with me when I''m there.

--Joshua

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 11/13/2009 9:12:18 AM
Author: morecarats

I recommend that buyers insist on lab certification even when buying from reliable dealers. Fraud is rife in the industry, though a lot of it is due to ignorance rather than deception.

Although lab certifications are nice, they really are worthless unless the cert is from a legitimate lab AND the buyer has the ability to check the stone they are receiving against the cert to make sure that they are the same stone. I would also say that while fraud may be attempted in some areas of the industry,(fraud within the trade is not nearly as commonplace), it is nearly guaranteed when buying indiscriminately on Ebay and from countries other than the one you are residing in. It''s not just a matter of selling synthetics as natural, but of manipulating the pictures presented of the stones being sold there. I will still buy there, but only from people that I know are upfront and willing to stand behind their goods, (this is a very small handful of vendors there).

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 11/13/2009 9:12:18 AM
Author: morecarats
Joshua, I couldn''t agree withy you more. I have been warning people about the perils of buying from eBay since I''ve been on this forum, though many people still insist there are great bargains to be had there. Just this week we had one lady on PS who bought an ametrine on eBay for $6 who was told by her local jeweler that the stone was worth $2K. But you can''t reason with some people.

I recommend that buyers insist on lab certification even when buying from reliable dealers. Fraud is rife in the industry, though a lot of it is due to ignorance rather than deception. Just this week a broker wanted to sell us a stunning large peridot. We insisted on a lab test at AIGS before we bought it. It tested as synthetic sapphire. The broker was completely surprised, he just assumed it was natural peridot.

We had another recent case of a local factory who wanted to sell us some nice looking onyx that they had cut from rough stone purchased from a local mine. We were considering a large parcel so we had some samples tested before we closed the deal, even though this is inexpensive material. The samples tested as black spinel, a more valuable stone. It''s hard to argue with the old saying, ''Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by mere stupidity.''

Wow, its pretty rude to talk about other people....And no you cant reason with me because I like my stone. No matter how much you bring it down, I still will like it. As for ebay you CAN get some really nice deals if you are careful. Quite a few of my tanzies are from ebay, one being my 1ct blue one (2nd largest). Paid 40$ for it, and it was a GREAT buy. A couple of my .25-50cts ebay tanzies I paid between 99c and 4$ each for. My 1.2ct I paid 15$ for. Only ''imperfection'' is a small window. All real VS1 tanzies, RI 1.69-1.7. And you know what? I love em. Buy smart and you CAN get a great deal.
I dont purchase from thialand because I have noticed many of them sell fake stuff (learned my lesson early on).

Please dont talk about me or talk down about me. It is rude.