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AGS cut spec revised in Q1 2003?

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computerguy

Rough_Rock
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Jan 27, 2004
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I''m trying to read more about the AGS cut grade of "0" (zero). If you go to a few web sites, you will read about the AGS cut grade 0 will have certain crown angles, pavilion angles, etc.

The values quoted are different for different web sites! Take a look at this site:
http://www.diamondgrading.com/Articles_GIA_vs_AGS_CUT.htm

compared to this site:
http://www.niceice.com/ogi/

The values for Table Diameter are different! What''s the deal?

I noticed at the http://www.niceice.com/ogi/ web page, it says that there was a revision to the AGS spec in Q1 2003. Can someone confirm this info?

The quotation is shown below. (I hope I''m not violating any sort of copyright law by doing this cut and paste. If this is illegal, I''ll edit the post and remove the text.)
RWW




The proportions chart located right beneath this section provides the parameters for the proportions scale developed by the AGS Laboratory:

(Chart removed).

Please note however that the chart above uses the pavilion depth percent as a determining factor of the proportions rating and that during the first quarter of 2003 the AGS eliminated the percent variables from their proportions scale because of a realization that the angle measurements are more accurate than the estimated percentages... The range for the pavilion angle measurement for the AGS Ideal 0 proportions grade ranges from 40.15 to 41.20 degrees. While both Sarin and OGI have been made aware of the change of parameters for the AGS zero ideal cut rating, the program software has not been updated yet to reflect the change and thus some diamonds that would score "zero" on the current AGS proportions scale are reflecting lower scores...
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
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Instead of looking for AGS information from non-AGS sources, why don't you go to www.ags.org. That would be the most reliable source, wouldn't you think?
 

Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi Computerguy! Welcome to Pricescope!

You have asked a good question. I guarantee that not all replies will be as snotty as that first one!
rodent.gif


www.agslab.com might have something in their website, but I couldn't find it. I do seem to remember some discussions here regarding the dropping of the pav % option, but I can't remember if they just eliminated the % ranges or if they actually changed the range for angles too.

Robin and Todd, founders of NiceIce, post here fairly regularly and I'm sure will fill in the details. There are also many other pros around as well who can answer this one offhand.

R/A
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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I went to Peter Yantzer's (lab director) lecture at vegas trade fair last June and he explained that they had encountered some mischevious cutters putting maximum culet's on in order to minimise pavilion depth %.

They fixed this problem by making the pavilion angle the default criteria. This is the correct procedure and a wise move. As some of you know it is this culet problem that is why we always tell HCA users to enter angles not %'s.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
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3,441
Thanks for the post, Garry. I went to the AGS website and didn't find any info. It was all general, aimed at the public sort of stuff. I kinda figured the answer to this question was hidden in journals, reports, or lectures that insiders in the biz knew about.
1.gif
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
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The information posted on our web site comes straight from the horses mouth so to speak... We confirmed the change to the AGS Proportions scale with Peter Yantzer, Director of the AGS Laboratory when we noticed subtle changes in some of the lab reports we were being offered by various cutters. As Garry has indicated, the changes were made to tighten the parameters and the change is an improvement in our opinion because the angle measurements have always been more accurate than the percentage estimates... The Sarin and OGI computerized proportions analysis machines actually measure the crown and pavilion angle, but only estimate the percent measurements, thus the new proportions scale implimented by the AGS is a more accurate scale. Anybody wanting to confirm this information can contact the AGS Laboratory...
 

computerguy

Rough_Rock
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On 1/27/2004 8:46:32 PM aljdewey wrote:



Instead of looking for AGS information from non-AGS sources, why don't you go to www.ags.org. That would be the most reliable source, wouldn't you think?
----------------


I tried going to both the AGS web site and the AGS Lab web site. I found nothing really techy. It was mostly glossy consumer stuff.

I was hoping for someone else to confirm the niceice info.

From my reading of the thread so far, it seems that some other web sites are posting older AGS cut specifications.
RWW
 

computerguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
30




bumping this message to the top...



Could someone please confirm the niceice statement? I couldn't find the info on the AGS or AGS Labs web site and wanted some independant confirmation.



RWW





----------------
On 1/28/2004 3:27:17 AM computerguy wrote:













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On 1/27/2004 8:46:32 PM aljdewey wrote:









Instead of looking for AGS information from non-AGS sources, why don't you go to www.ags.org. That would be the most reliable source, wouldn't you think?
----------------


I tried going to both the AGS web site and the AGS Lab web site. I found nothing really techy. It was mostly glossy consumer stuff.

I was hoping for someone else to confirm the niceice info.

From my reading of the thread so far, it seems that some other web sites are posting older AGS cut specifications.
RWW
----------------
 

gunsuka

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 29, 2003
Messages
21
AGS will not release the criteria they use to the public, drop them an email or give them a call... they will not release the specs to you unless you are a member of the trade. Not something I personally agree with, but from personal experience I know this to be the case.


Robert Gunther
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,170


----------------
On 1/27/2004 11:13:57 PM Rank Amateur wrote:





You have asked a good question. I guarantee that not all replies will be as snotty as that first one!
rodent.gif


----------------

R/A.....so sorry you felt my response was snotty. I think you guys are all looking for insult where none is intended.



My point was simply that the best source for information about a change at AGS would be at AGS itself. Go straight to the source. If it's not on their website, I would call them. The only one who can *confirm* that AGS made a change first-hand is AGS.



It was said nicely and without malice. You're off base here.
 
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