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nytemist

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For those of you who are or have done couples therapy, about how long was it before it stgarting to make a change in your relationship? Like if there was a specific issue that needed to be addressed, when did it seem to turn a couner?

I know that everyone isn''t that same and it all depends on what problems there are. We started going to sessions in late May. We have had 5 appointments so far and she is really good with making us both talk about what we are feeling without getting angry or building tension. Back in April we had quite the argument that stemmed form me asking a simple question about some future plans that we needed to discuss. He pretty much lost it on me, saying that he hadn''t been thinking about our last conversation about our future (about 3 weeks prior) Now, since the beginning of the year, I have been trying to be better about approaching him to have a realistic talk about our next plan of action together. To me, plans that we talked about back in 2003 or 2004 should be well into planning, if ot carrying out. Beginning of April, he had talked to his sister. (which he rarely does- he seems to have no interests in tlaking to anyone unless they call him) This is the sister who is pregnant and due in August. She asked how we were doing and when I talked to her she asked me if DH started to open up and really talk to me about what we want out of the future. I said no... future seems to be still kind of a taboo word to him. So after she was off the phone I brought it up. We hadn''t had any talks about our future plans in quite a while and though we should come together with out thoughts.

Fast forward the three weeks, I asked him if he wanted to revisit the conversation. I wasn''t attacking, accusing, confrontationl, I simply asked him ''so DH, is this a good time to follow up on our last talk?'' He gives this big sigh and says no, he hadn''t. He was more concerned with cat issues and honestly wasn''t thinking about our issues. I asked him, what do you care about at this point? The talks we''ve had about our future seemed to have gone in one ear and out the other, the sister you lived with for so long, that you are close to and is now expecting you don''t talk to unless she calls you and same with his parents; rarely do you call them. This does bother me since his parents are so fabulous and fun and they are like teenagers, meanwhile I would give anything to have my dad back even for a day. I said you have a wife that lately doesn''t feel wanted since we don''t interact how we used to, unless a conversation involves your cats it isn''t important, you have a family that would love to hear from you and it doesn''t seem as if you appreciate that. Plus you''re going to be an uncle and your biggest reaction to it has been a monotone ''congratulations'' when you sister told you at Christmas. When I have asked how you feel about becoming an uncle the most you do is shrug. I said I feel left out since it feels like you are withdrawing more and more adn I don''t know what is making that happen. I said it doesn''t seem like you want to develop any emotion for anything else but your cats. Why am I here trying to make this marriage work if I''m not hearing anything or getting any passion in return? SO he yells at me, fine do you want a divorce? I was so shocked I could talk anymore. About an hour later he came to me and said that he agreed with what I said months prior about finding a therapst since us trying to talk to each other was not working. That he knew I was putting so much into it, reading things that would help our relationship, but not know how to do the same thing therefore making me so frustrated. I''ve been stresses, not eating well, drinking too much, I can''t focus, losing sleep over this while he sleeps like a baby at night. I spent a few nights at a friends and told him don''t talk to me until you have researched a therapist, since as of right now I will say something I will regret. This could go on, but this is way long as it is.

So by now we''ve had 5 appointments, she has given us such great tools and advice on how to approach each other. I have been using the new tools so that he can actually open up and talk. But unfortunately not much has changed. I asked questions base on how I''m perceiving things and he will answer me, but still not bring ideas to the table. During our last appt., I told her this- that she has given us so many new ways of looking at things and talking to each other and I try it at homer and nothing happens. I said that he talks when he is in her office, but still doesn''t open up to that level at home. I said that I''m exhausted and I am finding harder to deal with the shutting down and not sharing his deeper feelings with me. She said that sounded bleak and I said I know it does, but what else do I do now?

Sorry this is so long, but I need to know where to go from here. The past few months have wiped me out. My friends who are married are different- they literally are on the same pages about everything in their lives or have an idealistic view of how marriage is supposed to be.
 

aprilcait

Brilliant_Rock
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Oct 17, 2006
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I''m sorry you''re facing such difficulties!

I haven''t been to couple''s counseling but I have been to counseling, myself. Counseling can take a while to really make a difference... it can even make things a bit more difficult before it makes them better. It''s best to be patient and put all of your effort into it. Perhaps going to an individual counseling session, as well, might help a bit.
 

anchor31

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You know nyt, I think your husband might be depressed, and I think he might need individual therapy so he can deal with his own issues. I don''t think this is about you at all...

Good luck sweetheart! I''m sorry you''re having such a rough time.
 

krispi

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Dec 27, 2007
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Well, I can only speak from my own experience. My ex and I attended counseling together for several months. At first, I noticed some improvements after the first several sessions. We spent the first appointment talking about his past and the second talking about my past, but after that we started to get into how we interacted and get some suggestions. When we were both working on things, we did notice that we felt better at home too. After a while though, he stopped trying and stopped doing the things the counselor told him to. We eventually separated and divorced. He was also diagnosed with depression half way through our sessions, and he had a girlfriend on the side, so there was a lot more to it than that...

But one thing I definitely learned through all my experiences - it takes 2 people working on a relationship to make it improve. You''ve mentioned all the great things you''ve done to try to repair your relationship, but what has he done? He''s going to the counseling appointments, but is he really putting in an effort at other times? You''ll never be able to fix it if you''re the only one trying.
 

krispi

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Date: 7/1/2008 2:13:40 PM
Author: anchor31
You know nyt, I think your husband might be depressed, and I think he might need individual therapy so he can deal with his own issues. I don''t think this is about you at all...

Good luck sweetheart! I''m sorry you''re having such a rough time.
You know, I had this thought too but was a little reluctant to suggest it. Withdrawing from me was one of my ex''s symptoms of his depression.
 

decodelighted

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Am also sorry you''re going through this. Agree it seems to be mostly about him & sadly there''s not much you can do about that. Almost wonder if he''s got a mild case of Aspergers Syndrome going on. His detachment is not new ... his inability to empathize .. inability to read social cues ... lack of interest in emotional topics ... fixation on the cats. Depression could be mixed in but sounds like more going on that that to me (who has suffered from depression, and who has relatives with Aspergers).

You''re doing what you can to make it work. Keep doing that. But I guess at some point you realize that you can''t change who he is. And if you can''t accept who he is and how he is than maybe its best for everyone for you two to part ways amicably.
8.gif
Hopefully he''ll experience growth & healing through treatment. It isn''t an easy road though. Sometimes it takes different therapists ... individual counseling ... medications ... a lot of time. And *he* has to be the one who wants to change. In the meantime maybe you can join an AlAnon group for additional support? Realizing that it isn''t about you & coming to terms with your lack of control over it will help you guard your (already) fragile self esteem. Guard it like a pit bull, Lady. It''ll help you thrive in a healthy relationship & it will help you survive a breakup. Either way. Look out for #1. (You).
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 7/1/2008 2:33:02 PM
Author: decodelighted
Am also sorry you''re going through this. Agree it seems to be mostly about him & sadly there''s not much you can do about that. Almost wonder if he''s got a mild case of Aspergers Syndrome going on. His detachment is not new ... his inability to empathize .. inability to read social cues ... lack of interest in emotional topics ... fixation on the cats. Depression could be mixed in but sounds like more going on that that to me (who has suffered from depression, and who has relatives with Aspergers).

You''re doing what you can to make it work. Keep doing that. But I guess at some point you realize that you can''t change who he is. And if you can''t accept who he is and how he is than maybe its best for everyone for you two to part ways amicably.
8.gif
Hopefully he''ll experience growth & healing through treatment. It isn''t an easy road though. Sometimes it takes different therapists ... individual counseling ... medications ... a lot of time. And *he* has to be the one who wants to change. In the meantime maybe you can join an AlAnon group for additional support? Realizing that it isn''t about you & coming to terms with your lack of control over it will help you guard your (already) fragile self esteem. Guard it like a pit bull, Lady. It''ll help you thrive in a healthy relationship & it will help you survive a breakup. Either way. Look out for #1. (You).
I agree...

I''ve put my two cents in your past threads, but I guess it couldn''t hurt to throw a couple more in.

First of all, kudos to both of you for going to therapy.

I do think he has issues that go beyond marital discord. He was like this before you married him and he hasn''t changed, and I doubt he will ever change all that drastically.

As for your future, nytemist, it seems like you have focused on that from the beginning of your relationship. It was always "when is the next step?" When are we getting engaged, when are we moving, etc. It might do you some good to focus on the present and ENJOY it.
 

nytemist

Brilliant_Rock
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Mar 11, 2005
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962
He certainly did have his issues with committing to things and having the fear of what''s ahead. That is why we did have so many discussions about our road in life before we got married. I thought we were very clear about what we wanted to do and when we wanted to do it. The first few months were challenging, mostly due to the issue of making room for me in his condo. After that things settled and we did talk about plans and he was board with everything. Then around the beginning of the year he swung the other way again, saying he wasn''t sure about moving, didn''t know if he was able to do the job search thing again, was worried about finding another place to live that would take cats. That''s why I was feeling the whole bait and switch feeling- that these things were fine before, now that we should be taking some action, you don''t want to anymore?

When I started talking to someone on my own back in Nov. she suggested that he do the same as she though he may have some deeper issue going on. What made me think of posting today is that last night I got back from NYC with a friend of mine ( I took her to the Pride parade and she had neve been in NYC) and she remarked "I can understand why you want to live there.'' I told DH about it and he says ''yeah I would still like to move there. Mind you, last week I said to him that someone I know who lives in NYC was willing to help collect whatever info I needed in order to practice MT there and he said ''isn''t it too soon to think about that?'' It''s like talking about the details of what we want is ok, but when it seems like a reality, he decides he isn''t ready to do so again. The back and forth is doing a number of me.

TG, it''s hard for us to enjoy the now when neither of us is particularly happy. We don''t like where we live and it''s too small for all of us, but he''s too worried about the cats being accepted to ponder where to move to. Whne he''s in his withdrawn phase, he can spend half a Saturday in the other room and not interact with me until I say something or suggest getting out of the house. We have the next session on the 16th and she asked him to really think about why he got married and to think what his behavior is doing to me. Since I''m going away this weekend as well to Montreal, like I always around the July 4th, I really want to say to him to use this weekend to think and ask himself where the behavior is coming from. Just afraid that he''ll do the usual shrug his shoulders and say ''I don''t know''.
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ny,
Your post is as if you haven''t read or absorbed *any* of the advice or comments. If you''re posting just to vent: fine. If you want to learn from other people''s perspective then try to take down the defensiveness & regurgitated "explanations" of your side & why you have such a right to be mad (agreed, you do) and just breathe.

Bait & switch. You''ve mentioned that a lot. As if it was brand new. It''s not new. Nothing was ever settled -- you just convinced yourself it was. He tells you what you want to hear to shut you up & things stay the same until you try actual progress. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. One of these times you''re going to see the pattern for what it is & stop perpetuating it ... or at least participating in it. Fool me once, shame on you ... fool me 10000 times? I feel your frustration ... I''m sure everyone who''s followed your story does. But you just don''t seem to ''get it''.

Maybe one way venting is more satisfying. Sounds like you''ve had PLENTY of practice with that.
 

TravelingGal

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Dec 29, 2004
Messages
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Date: 7/1/2008 5:54:31 PM
Author: decodelighted
Ny,
Your post is as if you haven''t read or absorbed *any* of the advice or comments. If you''re posting just to vent: fine. If you want to learn from other people''s perspective then try to take down the defensiveness & regurgitated ''explanations'' of your side & why you have such a right to be mad (agreed, you do) and just breathe.

Bait & switch. You''ve mentioned that a lot. As if it was brand new. It''s not new. Nothing was ever settled -- you just convinced yourself it was. He tells you what you want to hear to shut you up & things stay the same until you try actual progress. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. One of these times you''re going to see the pattern for what it is & stop perpetuating it ... or at least participating in it. Fool me once, shame on you ... fool me 10000 times? I feel your frustration ... I''m sure everyone who''s followed your story does. But you just don''t seem to ''get it''.

Maybe one way venting is more satisfying. Sounds like you''ve had PLENTY of practice with that.
Deco girl, you reached in, and YANKED the words right out of my mouth.

nytemist, I have wondered from time to time if you do hear any of the good advice many on PS have given you over the years now. Yes, it''s now been YEARS.

I think venting is fine, and if that is what you want to do, so be it.

YOU were clear in your head about what you wanted to do and WHEN you wanted to do it. I don''t remember him really ever being clear on anything. Not engagement, marriage, moving, or anything else.

He didn''t give you the bait and switch. This is the SAME guy you were dating. Go back and read some of your past posts...the history is all here. The "behavior" you are seeing right now is WHO HE IS and ALWAYS WAS.

I am very sorry that you don''t like your life right now...no one deserves to be unhappy.
 

TravelingGal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
17,193
Date: 7/1/2008 11:11:09 AM
Author:nytemist

Fast forward the three weeks, I asked him if he wanted to revisit the conversation. I wasn''t attacking, accusing, confrontationl, I simply asked him ''so DH, is this a good time to follow up on our last talk?'' He gives this big sigh and says no, he hadn''t. He was more concerned with cat issues and honestly wasn''t thinking about our issues. I asked him, what do you care about at this point? The talks we''ve had about our future seemed to have gone in one ear and out the other, the sister you lived with for so long, that you are close to and is now expecting you don''t talk to unless she calls you and same with his parents; rarely do you call them. This does bother me since his parents are so fabulous and fun and they are like teenagers, meanwhile I would give anything to have my dad back even for a day. I said you have a wife that lately doesn''t feel wanted since we don''t interact how we used to, unless a conversation involves your cats it isn''t important, you have a family that would love to hear from you and it doesn''t seem as if you appreciate that. Plus you''re going to be an uncle and your biggest reaction to it has been a monotone ''congratulations'' when you sister told you at Christmas. When I have asked how you feel about becoming an uncle the most you do is shrug. I said I feel left out since it feels like you are withdrawing more and more adn I don''t know what is making that happen. I said it doesn''t seem like you want to develop any emotion for anything else but your cats. Why am I here trying to make this marriage work if I''m not hearing anything or getting any passion in return? SO he yells at me, fine do you want a divorce? I was so shocked I could talk anymore. About an hour later he came to me and said that he agreed with what I said months prior about finding a therapst since us trying to talk to each other was not working. That he knew I was putting so much into it, reading things that would help our relationship, but not know how to do the same thing therefore making me so frustrated. I''ve been stresses, not eating well, drinking too much, I can''t focus, losing sleep over this while he sleeps like a baby at night. I spent a few nights at a friends and told him don''t talk to me until you have researched a therapist, since as of right now I will say something I will regret. This could go on, but this is way long as it is.
And btw, what you said to him was pretty confrontational and attacking. What kind of response did you expect when you gave him a laundry list of reasons why you don''t respect him and consider him pretty much worthless?
 

psichedout

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
6
I think it might be a good idea for you to have your own therapist as it feels like you could use someone in your corner and a friendly ear...also, I think it might be worthwhile asking your counselor if your husband seems depressed and if medication might help him....(If you can catch him in a good mood you could hint that you might explore this with the counselor...and see what his take is...) It sounds like he might benefit from an antidepressant...given the small amount we know from your post...Marriage is the toughest thing you and another person will do...I am married 31 years and it is still a daily struggle...Good luck and hang tough!!!
Sue
 

HollyS

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
6,105
While I am sorry that you are unhappy in your marriage . . . and let''s be entirely honest . . . you are miserable; I have to agree with Deco and TGal. From the beginning of your posts on PS, your guy was behaving in exactly this manner. He hasn''t changed; you thought you could change him, or that marriage would change him, but that''s not the reality. And it never will be.

He doesn''t want to move. Do you know why? Because as it stands right now, you are the outsider. It was his condo before you married; his and the cats''. He hasn''t made a real effort in helping you feel at home, because he doesn''t feel it is your home; it''s his. And the cats''. He''s just allowing you to live there. Moving would equalize the living arrangement. He feels secure in this situation. Do you know why? Because if it all falls apart, he feels his life will go on as before; you''ll be the one doing the leaving. He''s pretty sure this ''marriage'' isn''t a forever deal.

This is not the relationship you want, you need, or you had hoped for. So the question remains . . . what is keeping you in this marriage? And let''s not talk about how much you love him. You may very well adore him. (I don''t know why, but. . .) The hard, cold truth is, he will never love you. He can''t. He not only has no true emotions (other than anger and frustration), he also has no ''give a sh^t''. He never dd. From what I can gather from your posts, it seems his anger and frustration with you is because you don''t seem to realize that he is who he is, and he has no intention of changing himself. No matter how many counseling sessions you two go to; he won''t change. He doesn''t want to. It''s as simple as that.

I am truly sorry that this is bringing you so much pain; and I don''t want to add to it; but I felt I needed to be blunt.
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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25,711
HI:

As far as relationships go, it is my understanding that most people accept a lot in each other's behavior in order to make things "work"; but his obvious indifference to you would be a complete deal breaker "for me".

You and others here are going to kick me around the block for this; but my suggestion is to seek counselling to better understand why, given the history, you made the choice in the partner you did: and if this helps to improve your relationship then, great. If not, then honestly.....move on; as how much emotionall toxicity can one take?

I also would promote or suggest getting in touch with your physical well being; e.g good health--eating well, exercising, yoga, meditation, etc. If you are not as sleeping well as you suggest, then slowly changing your lifestyle can only help engergize you and help make you feel better about yourself and present situation.

Truely, I wish you well.

cheers--Sharon
 

surfgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
4,438
Ny, I have to ''ditto'' Holly, Sharon, Tgal and Deco here. This is nothing new, it''s the same old same old. I''m going to say this straight out...I think you battle low self esteem and you settled, thinking nobody would ever marry you. You wanted a life partner and this guy agreed. But you dont seem to have ever been truly happy with him and what''s worse, he seems completely disinterested and incapable of being a real life partner with you or anyone for that matter. He appears emotionally thwarted and unable to love anyone except his damn cats. It''s always about the damn cats. He cant move because of the cats. He cant go on vacations with you because of the cats. He cant discuss what should be the most important relationship of his life, because of the cats. He''s not interested in anything, except the damn cats. What about that seems ''normal'' to you? It''s not normal, nothing about him is ''normal''. But the thing is, he seems to have been this way from the beginning. Personally dear, I think you sold out, and that''s probably the most unhealthy thing a woman can do to herself. You deserve someone who will grab life by the freaking BALLS and live it to the fullest WITH YOU because deep down, you seem like the sort of person who wants to really LIVE LIFE to the fullest extent. And this dude just drags you down to the lowest depths. Really, I dont think therapy will ever fix him or you as a couple because he doesn''t seem to want to be fixed.

Now, to answer your question about how long it takes to see real change? That can be anywhere from one session to a few years of sessions...it all depends on what issue is being worked on. But again, if someone doesn''t want to change, no amount of counseling will ever help them move forward.

I really wish you well honey. You''ve been through a lot. But you dont seem willing to acknowledge or serious your situation is. Please, do yourself a favor and read all your past threads, even if it''s just the initial posts. Then take them all into your therapist and discuss them as a sum total. You cannot continue living in this relationship if it''s not going to change. It''s not fair to YOU.
 

nytemist

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Messages
962
Well, thank you for the points of view here. Maybe it is part venting, but I was asking how therapy has helped others. I''m gathering that it won''t really help us. Also it seems that I made a mistake marrying him, but I was trying to make this work with the boyfriend/husband that I do love who did promise me that he wanted to change things. Was wrong to believe him? Maybe that was another mistake. It''s seems clear what the next phase is and I can think over the weekend how to go about it. Thanks again and everyone have a good Fourth.
 

KimberlyH

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Jun 15, 2006
Messages
7,485
Therapy only works if those involved are willing to do the work, there''s a big difference between that and lip service, and it can take weeks, months, or years depending on what the issues are and how willing/able the involved are to make changes. My personal belief is that any good counselor''s goal is to provide his or her patients the tools they need to work things out and then the couple can wean from therapy and start handling their troubles sans a third party. My good friend who is in an unhappy marriage has been in individual and couples therapy for several years, still discussing the same ol'' things: should I stay, should I go, should I demand certain things from him, etc. Her husband goes on occasion to appease her, but his heart isn''t in it, he just doesn''t want to be left. So she goes, and she vents, and her therapist listens, and then she returns to the same life she''s been living for 8 years with no hope for real change; personally I think her therapist is useless as she''s made no real progress and he''s allowed himself to be a sounding board who does nothing to help her fix things. Then she threatens to leave and he does some little thing that gives her a glimmer of hope (attends therapy, or perhaps a trip, she loves to travel he despises it, or a holiday with family, she adores his and hers, he would prefer to stay home alone) and the cycle starts all over.

I see a lot of my friends'' husband in what you describe of yours. She is kind and intelligent (but doesn''t think highly of herself), driven, interested in life, and he''d rather stay home with the ringer turned off on his phone, impossible to contact, playing with his video games and computer. I hope my perception is skewed because you use this as a place to vent and don''t discuss all of the positive things about your relationship, but that doesn''t seem very plausible, considering you''ve been experiencing the same problems for the entire relationship. I don''t know what the answer is for you, but I hope you find some peace as this all seems so painful and difficult.

Best of luck to you, Nyt.
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,534
Date: 7/2/2008 9:58:43 AM
Author: KimberlyH
I don't know what the answer is for you, but I hope you find some peace as this all seems so painful and difficult. Best of luck to you, Nyt.
Word! Ditto ...

Since you asked again specifically about counseling I'll say, though I've never done couples work, I was in individual counseling. Its hard work & slow going. Not an instant fix. I doubt I would have been able to have a healthy relationship for any extended period during my first bit of therapy. The ones I did have were short -lived & full of drama. Everyone's situation is different though. Some folks do experience an AH-HA! moment quickly & can use their new tools to diffuse situations etc. Fake it til you make it kind of stuff. Also -- one of my best friends was in couples counseling with her husband their entire courtship & marriage . 12 yrs. total. They've been sep. a year & are working towards a divorce. So therapy isn't a guarantee. Some folks just aren't right for each other despite love & commitment. Eventually the cracks are too deep to fill or too deep to ignore.

Talk more with your counselor before you do anything rash. You have plenty of time to decide what to do & how you feel. As Travelinggal said ... try to take in what is RIGHT with your life & find comfort in that.
 

surfgirl

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Messages
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Date: 7/2/2008 9:18:05 AM
Author: nytemist
Well, thank you for the points of view here. Maybe it is part venting, but I was asking how therapy has helped others. I'm gathering that it won't really help us. Also it seems that I made a mistake marrying him, but I was trying to make this work with the boyfriend/husband that I do love who did promise me that he wanted to change things. Was wrong to believe him? Maybe that was another mistake. It's seems clear what the next phase is and I can think over the weekend how to go about it. Thanks again and everyone have a good Fourth.
Nyt, I think plenty of us answered your question about counseling and how long it takes to see the fruits of the hard work. Again, it can be a lonnnnng road. But both parties have to want to change. You seem to be a bit pissed that we shared our honest thoughts with you. Do you not see that you post the same things over and over and over? At some point, you've gotta hear it straight out, you know? You say he "promised" to change. It's easy to talk the talk but he never seems willing to Walk the Walk and therein lies the issue. He doesn't want to change.

ETA: Nyt, since this has been on ongoing issue for a very long time now, have you considered a half way move, such as a temporary separation? Maybe make that move to NYC, and see if the shock of you moving will shock him into action, finally? I suggest it only because it seems like you have friends there and if things don't work out, you'd already be moving forward? I dont know if it's worth considering, or at least discussing with your counselor but I wanted to throw it out there...

And just to be clear, people here only want the best for you...
 

phoenixgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
3,389
I've been thinking about your post, and my suggestion is to evaluate your relationship and marriage for what it is, not what it could be, or what your husband promised it would be after he changed, or what you hope it might be if you just [go to counseling, nag him enough, scare him into thinking he'll lose you, etc.].

Because you can't change him. He might change, and it might be influenced by something you do, but ultimately his choices are his. My husband promised he would quit smoking when we got married, and I promised (this is embarrassing!) that I would stop sleeping with my childhood stuffed animal. Neither of us kept our promises, and we got married anyway. I finally nipped my "habit" when we were showing our condo and I didn't want anyone to find a stuffed animal in the bed.
1.gif
He kicked his when I got in shape and he wanted to get back into biking.

My husband will say that he quit smoking for me, but I know that's not true, not entirely anyway. If it were, he would have quit before we got married, as he promised and I pleaded. The part that was for me was that he saw me getting into shape and being a happier, healthier person, and he wanted to join in on that. I don't think it was this selfless act. I think it was that he could envision the possibilities: I am fit and slimmer and enjoying my new lifestyle while he lags behind, or we do it together. But this wasn't an ultimatum that I gave him. I just did what I needed to do for me.

So I hope you'll do what you need to do for you. If it's move to New York, then do it. If your husband promised he would move years ago, and he's not, then me (this is me; I can't tell you what to do with your life), I would go ahead and do it. Maybe it will be the best thing you've ever done. Maybe he'll move with you and you'll both love it. Maybe he'll move with you but decide he can't stand it and you'll separate. Maybe he'll let you move without him, and again, you'll love it, or maybe not. But being stuck in a standstill seems very tiring and frustrating. My vote is to make a change and see what happens from there. I love the part in the movie "The Family Man" where Tea Leoni tells Nicholas Cage that she'll move into NYC even though she doesn't want to "because I choose us." Maybe what you need from him is solid proof that he loves you because he'll move even though he's scared/stuck/unwilling.

The alternative is to decide that you can accept things the way they are, or really, him the way he is. That you accept that he won't call his family, and he won't discuss the future or his feelings. That you accept that he'll never to move to New York, and instead of letting him stall or deflect when you tell him what you want, you just give up on the idea. You embrace him for who he is, and you decide you'll put your energy into loving the cats too, and not worry about the other stuff. You decide that being together and upholding your vows is more important than how you feel and what you want right now. It might be helpful to research personality types, and to get an idea of what is introversion on his part versus what is avoidance or agoraphobia. Of course, this may not be possible, because just as you can't make him change, you might not be able to make yourself either. Hopefully your therapist can help you figure out if this is the case.

These are the choices as I see them. Not communicating, not making decisions, being miserable and stressed and not taking care of yourselves, talking about divorce . . . this is not a good status quo, and I urge you not to accept it as such.

Best wishes.
 

risingsun

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
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I sometimes start seeing people in couples therapy and I realize that they have individual issues that need to be addressed before couples therapy is even possible. Your husband does sound as if he's depressed and may have other concerns, as well. There may be problems he's not yet able to share with you, but might tell a therapist, given some time. If both partners are not committed--or able to be committed to couples work--it is an exercise in futility. It does seems as if your husband needs some individual therapy at this time. I think you would benefit from the same, if you are not stilll in therapy. I wish you well.

ETA: Please keep in mind that couples therapy doesn't always "fix" a relationship. It may bring up issues that indicate imcompatibility on a core level. I've worked with couples who have learned to resolve their problems and others who learned that they can't be together and that IS the problem. Many couples leave therapy prematurely, because it is difficult to deal with the realities in their relationships. When that occurs, nothing happens and they say...."We went to a counselor and nothing changed." That's right. The couple did nothing to facilitate change.
 
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