Not a LIW, but a BIW...

[louisvgirl]

Um..he''s not hiding me. He''s hiding our engagement from them. I see the kids every other weekend, they have their own room in our house, but have been filled with poison from their mother. I treat them well and have developed a relationship with them. Their mother, however, undoes everything I do, when she has them! It''s a very difficult situation, everyone''s right.

 

[havernell]

Can I ask why your FI even wanted to get engaged if he wasn''t comfortable telling anyone about it? Why not just wait to propose until he felt ready to be public and honest about it with his family? Why the rush?

Also, what specifically has to change in order for your FI to feel comfortable telling his family about your engagement? Is he waiting for something in specific, some kind of event to happen? Does he have a plan as to when he will tell them, a pre-determined "end-point" to the lying? I would ask him that- namely, what has to change in order for him to be comfortable telling his family that he is engaged to you.

I just went back and read your original post in which you said that he was not telling his family about your engagement because his family is "not able to get past "oh these poor kids" and really not accepting the fact that "he has moved on." So, sounds like until his family is able to "move on" he will never tell them you are engaged. But what is his measuring stick for determining how much his family has "moved on"? And is your FI actively DOING anything to help his family "move on"? If he wanted to be able to tell his family that he was engaged to you I would think he''d want to help them "move on" as best he could and as quickly as possible. If he is not doing anything to help the situation, I don''t see how anything is ever going to change.

I am truly very sorry that you are in such a tough situation with your FIs mother and his ex-wife, but honestly it doesn''t sound like your FI is doing anything to try to rectify the situation at all. Rather he is just hiding from it. My heart goes out to you, but I think you need to really start asking your FI some tough questions. Best of luck!!

 

[Independent Gal]

If he''s hiding the engagement, he''s hiding YOU. YOU are his soon-to-be-wife and he wants to keep that a secret. That is really messed up and dishonest.

If you were my friend, I would be very, very concerned about you and your future happiness marrying a guy who carries on like that and I would feel it was my duty as your friend to tell you so. None of us know you or the details of your relationship, but I think all of us agree that his behaviour is worrying and totally unacceptable.

And this is not a ''everybody makes mistakes'' type thing. This is a character thing. You have to be a certain kind of person to hide your wife-to-be for 7 months and lie about it. And not the kind of person I would want any friend of mine to marry.

 

[nimue]

Date: 5/23/2008 9:52:05 AM
Author: Bia

Date: 5/23/2008 9:32:57 AM
Author: nimue
I have to agree with everyone else. This is not a good situation. I was involved with a man like this, but not for very long. I try to be a very honest person and I can''t live with lies. I think they are extremely damaging.

You need to decide what you want in this relationship. Is this really good enough for you? Does it make you feel loved and happy inside? My ex never told ANYONE about me, even when he was in the hospital and didn''t know if he was going to make it through an operation. I was a huge secret, a ghost. It took me a while to realize that life with someone you love shouldn''t be like that. So I left him.

You should not be anyone''s secret. He should love you openly to EVERYONE.

Out of curiosity, how did your ex (and anyone who has experienced this) justify keeping you a secret? That is so weird to me. How do you not meet his friends and family, ever? Or when you would bump into people, what would he say?

In my case, we were long distance (very long distance) and I never fully realized he was doing this until about a year or more into the relationship. Since we communicated a lot via email or IM (it''s free, lol), he would tell me that this friend or that friend or relative said ''hi'' or whatever, but when we were together, it was just us. So my crisis happened when he was in the hospital having surgery and I asked him to have his best friend call me right when he got out of the operating room. He swore to me he would do this. Then the time of the operation came, then passed hour after hour, and no call. After 7 or 8 hours, I was panicking and no call. It wasn''t until the NEXT MORNING (and yes, I was up all night long) that I got a text from his phone saying only "I''m OK." I was stunned. Turned out that he never spoke about me to ANYBODY. I still don''t really know why. I am assuming now that he had other ''things going on'' on the side. That is the only reasonable justification I can come to. I had a gorgeous engagement ring that he refused to take back after we broke up. I sold it and paid off some bills. If nothing else, at least he got me out of debt.

It was my fault, really. I put up with things that, now, look totally bizarre. I guess I don''t have much faith in men anymore. I still think about him and I''m tempted to send him an email every now and then. But why, you know? It was just a traumatic thing that I am still working on getting over. I''ve been lurking on here for a while and I see so many things that also happened to me. It''s pretty darn scary. Why do some men act like this?? I just have no clue.

 

[Bia]

Date: 5/23/2008 9:30:12 PM
Author: nimue

Date: 5/23/2008 9:52:05 AM

Author: Bia

Date: 5/23/2008 9:32:57 AM

Author: nimue

I have to agree with everyone else. This is not a good situation. I was involved with a man like this, but not for very long. I try to be a very honest person and I can''t live with lies. I think they are extremely damaging.


You need to decide what you want in this relationship. Is this really good enough for you? Does it make you feel loved and happy inside? My ex never told ANYONE about me, even when he was in the hospital and didn''t know if he was going to make it through an operation. I was a huge secret, a ghost. It took me a while to realize that life with someone you love shouldn''t be like that. So I left him.


You should not be anyone''s secret. He should love you openly to EVERYONE.

Out of curiosity, how did your ex (and anyone who has experienced this) justify keeping you a secret? That is so weird to me. How do you not meet his friends and family, ever? Or when you would bump into people, what would he say?

In my case, we were long distance (very long distance) and I never fully realized he was doing this until about a year or more into the relationship. Since we communicated a lot via email or IM (it''s free, lol), he would tell me that this friend or that friend or relative said ''hi'' or whatever, but when we were together, it was just us. So my crisis happened when he was in the hospital having surgery and I asked him to have his best friend call me right when he got out of the operating room. He swore to me he would do this. Then the time of the operation came, then passed hour after hour, and no call. After 7 or 8 hours, I was panicking and no call. It wasn''t until the NEXT MORNING (and yes, I was up all night long) that I got a text from his phone saying only ''I''m OK.'' I was stunned. Turned out that he never spoke about me to ANYBODY. I still don''t really know why. I am assuming now that he had other ''things going on'' on the side. That is the only reasonable justification I can come to. I had a gorgeous engagement ring that he refused to take back after we broke up. I sold it and paid off some bills. If nothing else, at least he got me out of debt.

It was my fault, really. I put up with things that, now, look totally bizarre. I guess I don''t have much faith in men anymore. I still think about him and I''m tempted to send him an email every now and then. But why, you know? It was just a traumatic thing that I am still working on getting over. I''ve been lurking on here for a while and I see so many things that also happened to me. It''s pretty darn scary. Why do some men act like this?? I just have no clue.

Wow. It is amazing how people treat the ones they supposedly love. I am very happy that you saw it for what it was and got out. You sound lovely and definitely deserve more.

 

[surfgirl]

Honey, you better love this guy like nobody''s business because this situation is going to get WAY worse before it will ever get better. You realize that, dont you? There is NO logical excuse that is reasonable, in terms of him lying about you two being engaged. NOTHING would be a reasonable excuse in this situation. If he is serious about YOU, then he would suck it up like a big boy and talk to his family and make it PERFECTLY CLEAR that you are the one for him and they''d better choose their own son over the ex. Or at least WELCOME YOU into their family and make sure the ex stops dissing you to their kids.

Since none of the above seems to have happened, you need to have a very serious talk with your guy. He needs to announce your engagement immediately. And he needs to talk to his family and his ex and set ground rules regarding welcoming you into HIS family and not having his ex talk crap about you to his kids. Period. If he doesn''t do this right now - as in TOMORROW - you really need to seriously take a big time out and move out, take a break, whatever you want to call it. This thing you describe? It is not an "engagement". It''s a game, aka "Let''s apease the GF by proposing to her but not really committing because we dont have the balls to deal with the flack that will come with announcing a real engagement." Dont you think you are WORTH MORE than that? Seriously...

 

[nimue]

Exactly, and that''s why I mentioned my situation. If he can lie about your engagement, who knows what else he will try to cover up over time. My case was extreme. Hopefully your FI will never have to be hospitalized or something, but what if that does happen? What if there''s an accident? Will his ex be notified and you will be left out of the loop? Who knows? It just seems like anything is possible at this point, and I''m saying from my experience that you never know what will pop up in life, and you need a man who is open to all people about you, who loves you and is completely honest about that love, so that you''ll never have to be waiting and wondering at 3am "What is going on and why wasn''t I informed????"

I would hate to see anyone in that situation. You feel so completely helpless. It''s terrible.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 5/23/2008 3:59:19 PM
Author: louisvgirl
Um..he''s not hiding me. He''s hiding our engagement from them. I see the kids every other weekend, they have their own room in our house, but have been filled with poison from their mother. I treat them well and have developed a relationship with them. Their mother, however, undoes everything I do, when she has them! It''s a very difficult situation, everyone''s right.

It is a very difficult situation, and it sounds like your man isn''t doing anything to make it easier for anyone but himself.

 

[louisvgirl]

Okay ladies, here''s an update:

I took everything to heart and broke down yesterday. I sent him a long email explaining him the situation and thanks to the PSers, borrowed some of your lines. I mentioned how it was probably my fault for allowing it to be a secret and how I did this to give him time to get ready and find his own way of telling them. I also brought up the fact that in the end, all I have is a beautiful ring, but not a real engagement and how it was time. and that yes, maybe he wasn''t ready to be engaged, and if he wasn''t able to tell them and stop living this lie, well then maybe we should move on?? Anyways, he truly missed the point and brought up how he denied it to his kid, because he was caught off card, but did not deny it to his mother. (because she did not say anything), So he totally missed the point, and kept telling him that this wass going to take a turn for the worse, and that I really hoped he knew that. So between email and texts, the ex was in his other ear telling him how they did not want to go with him this weekend because of me,,,, well idiot if you don''t trash us in front of the kids, then they would not be going through this. So that was another story. So he has me in one ear with our situation and his ex in the other causing more drama.

So I knew it was a matter of time before the ex told his mom about the ring. and I was right. She did. His mom then asked him last night, (remember this all happe ned during the day,) and HE FESSED UP AND TOLD HER YES, WE ARE ENGAGED! She proceeded to ask 101 questions everything from when did this happen, do her parents know, when is the date, and DID YOU PAY A LOT FOR THE RING?? (I thought that was so innapropriate) I mean who asks that? (maybe she though that if he didn''t spend a lot of $$, he could still get out of it) (she would go into cardiac arrest if she knew) Mind you. we are still not on the best of terms, but this is all I got out of him. I know she said more, but don''t know what. Needless to say, his family took it exactly how he expected them to take it. (They''re not out planning our engagement party or anything) Which is fine by me. At least they know now. He''s moody right now, because of the stress of what he went through. I asked him if he regreted telling them and he said no. He was still upset of how "I" acted since this all happened and how I left the house 2 hours before work. WHATEVER. Get over it!

I did tell him that I''m sure it wasn''t easy to have gone through that, but it was time and that it had to be done. He knows that, and repeatedly told me that he did not regret it. He''s just going through obviously the disapproval of his parents. His family has quite unique dynamics which does not involve the instillment of independency. (that''s another story)

So now they know....and I''m relieved....and I know it would not have played out this way if I did not get to open my eyes from all the PSers.....and found the balls....to send him the email.....and tell him what I felt....and how this did not make sense....and threatened to call the engagement off, due to him not being ready.... So to everyone ...thank you...thank you..thank you...

He found his "big boy" pants, last night,,and mom,,well I''m sure is looking for a bigger skirt to put her son under...

 

[bee*]

Delighted to hear that he told his mother. You did the right thing-he should be telling everyone that you''re his fiance and telling his mother is a big start. I''m still a bit bothered by the fact that he is going on about the way you acted-surely he realises how he acted drove you to doing what you did. When things calm down a bit, I would have another chat about it as it still doesn''t seem like he gets the points that you were making. I understand that he''s in a tough position with all that''s going on, but just make sure that he understands where you''re coming from.

 

[gwendolyn]

Ditto to bee-star. I am glad that it''s out in the open, but am kind of worried/annoyed that he is upset with how YOU acted in this whole thing. It seems like every time he''s had a chance to step up (of his own accord) and admit responsibility for something, he doesn''t. He still didn''t actually pro-actively TELL his mother. He was asked a question and didn''t lie this time. Good, but only marginal improvement in my opinion.

 

[nimue]

It''s definitely a start. It sounds like he has a lot of issues surrounding his parents and a need to have their OK for everything. It''s sad when parents have that kind of hold over their kids. But yes, it''s a start and hopefully he will grow up over all this and start to lead a more independent life from them. I''m glad to hear it!

 

[icekid]

Date: 5/24/2008 5:42:33 PM
Author: gwendolyn
Good, but only marginal improvement in my opinion.

I agree with gwen. But it really seems that he still does not understand your position at all. However, if nothing else it sounds like this is a means to an end one way or the other. Make sure you keep looking out for yourself, louisvgirl!

 

[Bia]

Louisvgirl: I think its good that the family now knows...however, it bothers me that he has to be coerced into telling his family, EVEN backed into a corner! This SHOULD be a celebration and its not.

I am very sorry that you have such a volatile relationship with his ex, because while you hate her (and she, you), those kids are going to have a much harder time being happy with their father--which is such a shame because anomocities (and a sleu of other sh*t) towards one''s parents follows a person through their entire life. I truly feel like your fiancé is partly to blame for this.

HIS mother, is a whole other story. BUT, no matter what she does, it isn''t her fault. You know why? Because it is HIS job to put his foot down where his mother is concerned, not yours. If he ALLOWS her to overstep boundaries (and doesn''t demand respect on your behalf), who can blame her for trying (its her son, after all)? It''s only too bad she doesn''t tell him to have some cojones and stand his ground where you and his children are concerned. Obviously she isn''t that kind of mother.

I sincerely hope, for your future happiness (and his kids''), that he is able to grow up and stop making excuses for the lame decisions he has made. You DO NOT want a life where everyone hates you because you''re the new wife. You don''t deserve that!

Please keep finding your voice and do not compromise your values. Good luck honey...

 

[Independent Gal]

I'm glad he didn't look his mom straight in the face and tell her a bald-faced lie that was demeaning to you, but that's about all you can give him credit for.

I wouldn't credit him with big boy pants quite yet because he was defensive on the phone with you and because he didn't actually TELL anyone. The ex told his mom. HE didn't tell his mom. He just didn't LIE to his mom.

And how do you think his kid feels, knowing that his dad lied to him? Geez, I'm sorry, but I still think this guy is dishonest and dishonorable.

He treated you like dirt! He treats his kid like dirt by lying!

You, on the other hand, are being a rockstar. Good for you for forcing the issue. That was the right move. Now just keep your eye out and make sure that he actually DOES find his big boy pants before you actually marry him.

It is not worth being married to a liar.

 

[Delster]

Date: 5/24/2008 5:22:49 PM
Author: louisvgirl
Okay ladies, here''s an update:

I took everything to heart and broke down yesterday. I sent him a long email explaining him the situation and thanks to the PSers, borrowed some of your lines. I mentioned how it was probably my fault for allowing it to be a secret and how I did this to give him time to get ready and find his own way of telling them. I also brought up the fact that in the end, all I have is a beautiful ring, but not a real engagement and how it was time. and that yes, maybe he wasn''t ready to be engaged, and if he wasn''t able to tell them and stop living this lie, well then maybe we should move on?? Anyways, he truly missed the point and brought up how he denied it to his kid, because he was caught off card, but did not deny it to his mother. (because she did not say anything), So he totally missed the point, and kept telling him that this wass going to take a turn for the worse, and that I really hoped he knew that. So between email and texts, the ex was in his other ear telling him how they did not want to go with him this weekend because of me,,,, well idiot if you don''t trash us in front of the kids, then they would not be going through this. So that was another story. So he has me in one ear with our situation and his ex in the other causing more drama.

So I knew it was a matter of time before the ex told his mom about the ring. and I was right. She did. His mom then asked him last night, (remember this all happe ned during the day,) and HE FESSED UP AND TOLD HER YES, WE ARE ENGAGED! She proceeded to ask 101 questions everything from when did this happen, do her parents know, when is the date, and DID YOU PAY A LOT FOR THE RING?? (I thought that was so innapropriate) I mean who asks that? (maybe she though that if he didn''t spend a lot of $$, he could still get out of it) (she would go into cardiac arrest if she knew) Mind you. we are still not on the best of terms, but this is all I got out of him. I know she said more, but don''t know what. Needless to say, his family took it exactly how he expected them to take it. (They''re not out planning our engagement party or anything) Which is fine by me. At least they know now. He''s moody right now, because of the stress of what he went through. I asked him if he regreted telling them and he said no. He was still upset of how ''I'' acted since this all happened and how I left the house 2 hours before work. WHATEVER. Get over it!

I did tell him that I''m sure it wasn''t easy to have gone through that, but it was time and that it had to be done. He knows that, and repeatedly told me that he did not regret it. He''s just going through obviously the disapproval of his parents. His family has quite unique dynamics which does not involve the instillment of independency. (that''s another story)

So now they know....and I''m relieved....and I know it would not have played out this way if I did not get to open my eyes from all the PSers.....and found the balls....to send him the email.....and tell him what I felt....and how this did not make sense....and threatened to call the engagement off, due to him not being ready.... So to everyone ...thank you...thank you..thank you...

He found his ''big boy'' pants, last night,,and mom,,well I''m sure is looking for a bigger skirt to put her son under...

I wouldn''t give him as much credit as you have done. Someone else told his Mom for him, then he waited for his Mom to confront him, and since then he''s just been taking all the abuse. Has he told his Mom to stop with all the inappropriate questions? That his decision to marry you is not up for negotiation? To reassess her allegiances and stop enabling the ex in badmouthing him? Has he told the ex to stop badmouthing both him and you to his children and his family? Has he stood up for his children? I''m afraid I''m with Indy on this. I don''t think he''s found his big boy pants at all.

I know all of that was probably harsh to read and I want to be absolutely clear here: I applaud you for insisting on your being recognised as his FI. Do not back down now. Insist that he man up and sort out all of the lies and duplicity that has been going on. It''s time he stood up for you and for his children. You all deserve better.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I diagree with the other girls about the signifigance of this move. It sounds to me like he comes from a disfunctional family, in which case something like this is a big improvement.
One of the halmarks of disfunctional families is that there are very low boundries between members and very high boundries towards outside people. If I am right, the question your FMIL asked about the cost and other things that seem inappropriate to you seem totally ok to her since there are no limits.

My Fi comes from a disfuntional family and there are a few things I can tell you. He will either decide to put up healthy boundries between himself and his family, which can be VERY hard, or he will continue to take the path of least resistance. If he chooses the second, get out; you will never come first and you truely will be unhappy.
The process of changing things with his family is long and painful. I am glad I stuck with my FI through it, but I sometimes felt terrible because all of this pain was because I showed him healthy boundries which he then set up with his family, causing the fights.
With the exception of the kids, the family is never going to like you. You will always be the interlooper who stole their son.

At some point, you will hav to look at the situation and decide if it is worth it. My FI knows his family has issues and always puts me first, so it is worth it to me, but it may not be for you. If he isn''t willing to change the dynamic with his family, you will never be happy, no matter how much you love him.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 5/25/2008 1:05:58 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy
I diagree with the other girls about the signifigance of this move. It sounds to me like he comes from a disfunctional family, in which case something like this is a big improvement.

One of the halmarks of disfunctional families is that there are very low boundries between members and very high boundries towards outside people. If I am right, the question your FMIL asked about the cost and other things that seem inappropriate to you seem totally ok to her since there are no limits.


My Fi comes from a disfuntional family and there are a few things I can tell you. He will either decide to put up healthy boundries between himself and his family, which can be VERY hard, or he will continue to take the path of least resistance. If he chooses the second, get out; you will never come first and you truely will be unhappy.

The process of changing things with his family is long and painful. I am glad I stuck with my FI through it, but I sometimes felt terrible because all of this pain was because I showed him healthy boundries which he then set up with his family, causing the fights.

With the exception of the kids, the family is never going to like you. You will always be the interlooper who stole their son.


At some point, you will hav to look at the situation and decide if it is worth it. My FI knows his family has issues and always puts me first, so it is worth it to me, but it may not be for you. If he isn''t willing to change the dynamic with his family, you will never be happy, no matter how much you love him.

Do you think his attitude towards her has to do with his dysfunctional family? Because although I can see what you''re saying about the effect the family has had on him up to this point and that maybe for him it is a big thing to take that first step, it seems like that still doesn''t give him the right to make out like *she* has been unreasonable. I think having a wonky family can only excuse so much--but of course, where to draw that line isn''t up to me.

 

[KimberlyH]

So he told his mom, well, not really...so his ex-wife told his mom and he didn''t deny it, not exactly putting on his big boy pants or setting boundaries, there''s a big difference between what he did and those two things (he was bullied into admitting they''re engaged, certainly no boundaries there). But do his kids know yet? And when does he plan on telling them? Their lives will change drastically when the two of you get married and they have a right to know that this is happening and should hear it from him, not their mother or grandmother. This situation sounds like one that needs a lot more than the band-aid fix "He admitted we''re engaged, hooray!" but some long, serious discussions between the two of you about what you want your marriage to look like, who will be included in your lives and at what level, and how the two of you will handle his children along with his ex-wife, who will always be their mother. I really hope you take a long hard look at what he has showed and is showing you through his actions, rather than getting caught un in the fact that he finally "fessed up" that you''re engaged.

 

[partgypsy]

The fact that you said your mother and father in law would choose his ex over their own son is very telling. Almost any family I know would have a strong natural inclination to with their son over the wife, (especially an ex!) even if the son did not exactly smell like a bed of roses. Personally I could be wrong but this smells like this guy has some character flaws. He has 2 children with this woman, did they discuss their marriage problems, try different things, go to counseling, etc? What did he do to try to save this marriage? Or did he just "fall out of love" and walk away? Second, when he meets another woman, gets involved, does he do the hard work of introducing this woman to his children and family, or do the easy (and dishonest) route of hiding the seriousness of the relationship? And heck, if he says it is too hard on his family for him to be seriously involved with another woman this soon after his divorce and that is important to him, then the honest thing to do for him is NOT be involved in a relationship this soon. In the real life you can''t have your cake and eat it too, especially when it involves children.