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louisvgirl

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 9, 2007
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323
Ok ladies, so I don''t post much, but I''m in some need of advice so here goes.

My FI and I got engaged, back in November. Here''s the kicker: all of my family knows and no one on his side does. He had recently divorced prior to our engagment, but his family has not moved on with the divorce. They truly believe that couples should stay together because of the children. He has 2 kids, 8 and 10. Ex-wife is bitter and has had numerous BF''s but none serious. She has very close contact with my FI mother, and confides and lies to her a whole lot. His mother watches the kids after school so she believes in having a good relationship with her, because of the kids. Needless to say, she takes her side on pretty much everything, and not my FI side. This is very hurtful to my FI since he initiated the divorce, and mother blames him for everything. So when it comes to his mom choosing the ex and him, she would choose the ex! This of course makes me feel bitter towards his mom, but it obviously is not ever noticed. She welcomes me and my parents into their home and everyone is cordial. I''m invited to all family events, vacations, etc. I choose not to go many times for the resentment I feel towards his mother. He knows how I feel. So due to his family not being able to get past "oh these poor kids" and really not accepting the fact that "he has moved on" he had decided not to tell them, unitl ??? We had had many talks about this before we got engaged, and I clearly understood this and accepted it. I knew it would open a whole can of worms by telling them, so I understood and went ahead, and agreed not to pressure him into telling them. Well I haven''t, until now! BTW, we were planning on having a destination wedding and he, yes he, would not want his family nor kids to attend "because he did not want to deal with them", so fine. I agreed. He really just wanted to go away and get married, just the two of us. Which was fine by me, but now my family wants to go and that''s fine, but a different story.

So needless to say, when his kids come to the house, my ring comes off. When I go to his family''s, not often, the ring comes off. (per agreement) Well last week we ran into the ex! In a totally different city. She, like I said, is very bitter. Somehow she spotted the ring and told the kids I had a ring on and proceeded to say nothing but negative things about me and their dad. when he saw the kids the next day, they were very stand-offish with him, and gave him the cold shoulder. He asked what was wrong, and nothing. Finally, he pryed it out of one them and found out what the ex- had said and what she saw. He told her "no, she did not have a ring, She was not wearing a ring." (to his kid) He then told his mother the conversation and of course left out the part about the ring. So I asked him "well what if XXX feels comfortable enough to tell your mom about the conversation, and tells her the ring part" what would you do? "I would say no!", he said. Okay, so that bothered me. It''s almost 7 months now, and I feel that if it comes up, that he might as well fess up. I mean he''s a grown man, and if he lies about this, for his family only to find out, then what?? How does that look on both of us?? It''s only a matter of time before the ex tells his mother, anyways. And when she does, then what? His mom will ask him and then he''s going to deny? At this point??

So ladies, go ahead and tell me I''m wrong, because I agreed with it in the first place. I have not pressured him into telling them, at all, but now I feel it''s only a matter of time, because the ring was spotted, and for hime to deny it?? I don''t know. I''m pretty P''offed right now,, and we are fighting because of this. He is truly afraid of his family and what his kids might say.
 

bee*

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
12,169
I can totally understand why you are pissed off. He should be telling his family at this stage. I can understand how he might have wanted to broach the subject gently at the beginning, especially as the divorce was just recent and he wanted to let his kids know over time, but 7 months later is ridiculous and especially the fact that he is denying that there''s a ring. He needs to be a big boy and tell his family. I would have serious issues with the fact that he is not telling his family-you''re going to be his wife, he should be telling them.
 

MoonWater

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
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3,158
I don't think you're wrong. I mean, I think you were wrong for ever agreeing to it. I would understand that he'd like to take his time telling them, well, sorta. But frankly after what has happened, there really is no point in going on lying. He is a grown man and if he's happy with his decision he does not need to justify it to his family. They're just going to have to learn how to deal. I really feel for you dealing with this bitter ex. She seems childish. I also really hate when people drag children into their pettiness.
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aliciagirl

Shiny_Rock
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Nov 9, 2007
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I''m sorry to say this, but if he''s not ready to tell his family and his kids, then he''s not ready to be engaged, in my opinion. The truth of it is you guys -will- be getting married soon and then what? Is he going to keep that a secret, too? I think it''s a very odd situation, but you are ultimately going to become a part of his family and be around his kids and they should know that you two are planning to marry. Keeping secrets is only going to harbor more hard feelings from his family.
 

Bia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
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6,181
I think, in this case, you need to stand your ground. For the preservation of your relationship, now, and in the future. If you keep backing down, you are going to be living this type of life with him--secretive and always second to the ex. Quite honestly, I don''t know that a marriage, never mind an engagement, can sustain this type of pressure.

Yes, you were wrong for having agreed in the first place, however I can see that you''re not in an easy situation to begin with. If this were me, I would tell my FI that I was wrong to agree and now it has to be fixed...no compromising on that one fact. How he tells them, can be up to him, but they need to know. As far as the FMIL, that is a whole other problem in itself and might take a lot of time and getting used to on her part (kids too). As for the ex? She needs to get over it, but I am sure that is must easier said than done. Yikes! I do not envy your situation...must be very difficult, for that I am sorry.

I hope it works out...good luck!
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brazen_irish_hussy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
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2,044
I don''t mean this as a jab at your FI or support for the ex, but could part of the reason the FMIL likes her is because she tells her things, even if they are not true when she cannot trust her own son to do so?

My FMIL is nuts and we have avoided telling her things for her own good, but she knew something was up and would eventually find out, making it much worse. Case in point.
There were lots of strays where she lives. One was feral and had kittens and we were taking them to the humane society because there wasn''t one where she was. She loved the mother but she was feral and got away from us so we hand raised the kittens. We tried for days to catch the mother but she was too wild. My FMIL loved the mother so we didn''t tell her. She knew we weren''t mentioning something, so she went through the blogs of all of his myspace friends. 13 pages back on one friend''s account was a mention of what happend and she was furios even though we hand raised the kittens and they were fine. She went to a lot of work to spy on my FI, is something like that possible?
 

louisvgirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
323
I didn''t mean to be so abrupt with my story, but he got home mid sentence and I panicked. So yes, it was wrong with me to agree with it, but I knew the BS that would have been put on him, and I honestly did not want US to go throught that. Now that the "cat has the bag, the cat''s not out of the bag, yet" I feel different. I told my mom, and she has said the same thing. "He''s a grown man, and he might as well tell them. They''re going to find out eventually." Yeah, my mom''s not too happy either. So Needless to say, I have for the past 7 months, felt engaged, but not really. He knows that I have always wanted an engagement party and he apologized that he couldn''t give me one and said that he would feel awkward with no one from his side there, and people asking questions. He truly feels so tied to his family and his kids. I feel that he has placed his family, mom, dad, sister, aunts, you name them, he''s got them, over me. So right now we are not talking and it has been 2 days now. And No, he does not see it my way, because I was bringing up all the "what if''s?" and in his eyes, the "what if''s didn''t happen! " I did tell him, that if it was brought up, that I hoped he do the right thing, and man up! All he could say was"I here what your saying, but did not give me a yes, you''re right, nor an okay". So I feel much better getting this off my chest and talking to everyone here. UGH. I don''t know what to do? He is seriously scared to death of them and especially his "poor" kids. UGH, thanks everyone for listening.
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icekid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
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7,475
Date: 5/22/2008 7:27:40 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
Just curious, do you have a wedding date?
That''s what I was wondering too... if he can''t manage to tell his family he is engaged after 7 months, how on earth is he going to get married? How will you ever plan a wedding? It sounds like you''re at the breaking point now- something is going to have to give!
 

louisvgirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
323
Nope to that one. I''m not giving excuses, although, it could be interrpreted that way, but we just bought a business and invested some serious $$ into it. I''m not working and running the business, so we''re trying to get this going so we are financially where we want to be. Without my income, thankfully this business, has been able to cover our mortgage, these past months. He, quite honestly, wants June of next year, I thought that was way too long, and was pressing for sooner, but his thing is the $$$. It''s a destination wedding with... hmm, not a lot of people there,,,,hm...how much could that be??? Right now, we are living pretty much pay check to paycheck, with this business, but things will be turning $$ in the near future.
 

NewEnglandLady

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
6,299
I understand, weddings are expensive. I just wanted to make sure you weren't dealing with a whole new definition of "Bride in Waiting". I really sympathize with you, I honestly think that trying to balance moving forward with the wedding while dealing with a man who is still being manipulated by his ex-wife (and mother, in this case) ON TOP of handling the dynamics of creating a "new" family with his kids requires the patience of a saint. I don't have any good advice, I would probably just focus on planning the wedding, nailing down the date and hopefully telling his family when and where the wedding will be and that you would like their love and support since you will be a part of the family for many more decades. This isn't a situation where you tip toe around the subject, it's a matter of them accepting reality.
 

KimberlyH

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
7,485
If I were in your shoes I''d tell him it''s time to fess up to his family or you need to move on with your life as woman who is not engaged. At some point we all have to grow up and take a stand. His children should always be his first priority, but that doesn''t mean you should come in last and it sounds like you''ve really gotten the short end of the stick.
 

choro72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,867
I don''t know much about this, but is there a way for your FI to get legal advice and secure his relationship with his children? Basically, he should find legal ways to protect his rights to see his children, and then open the topic with his parents, and force them to choose between his ex and him. As long as your FI has legal rights, he should not be afraid to tell them.
 

zoebartlett

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
12,461
I agree with Kimberly. I''m sorry, but not wanting his kids (or his family in general, but especially his kids) at your wedding because "he doesn''t want to deal with them" just seems wrong to me.
 

goodfun7580

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
120
I hate to say this, but you didn''t get engaged, you just got a pretty ring. This guy is no where close to getting married. There is nothing you can do but save your self. Who on earth would want to be married or "engaged" to that situation? No matter how much you love the guy, you have to look out for yourself sometimes.
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Guilty Pleasure

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Date: 5/22/2008 7:21:25 PM
Author: louisvgirl
I didn''t mean to be so abrupt with my story, but he got home mid sentence and I panicked. So yes, it was wrong with me to agree with it, but I knew the BS that would have been put on him, and I honestly did not want US to go throught that. Now that the ''cat has the bag, the cat''s not out of the bag, yet'' I feel different. I told my mom, and she has said the same thing. ''He''s a grown man, and he might as well tell them. They''re going to find out eventually.'' Yeah, my mom''s not too happy either. So Needless to say, I have for the past 7 months, felt engaged, but not really. He knows that I have always wanted an engagement party and he apologized that he couldn''t give me one and said that he would feel awkward with no one from his side there, and people asking questions. He truly feels so tied to his family and his kids. I feel that he has placed his family, mom, dad, sister, aunts, you name them, he''s got them, over me. So right now we are not talking and it has been 2 days now. And No, he does not see it my way, because I was bringing up all the ''what if''s?'' and in his eyes, the ''what if''s didn''t happen! '' I did tell him, that if it was brought up, that I hoped he do the right thing, and man up! All he could say was''I here what your saying, but did not give me a yes, you''re right, nor an okay''. So I feel much better getting this off my chest and talking to everyone here. UGH. I don''t know what to do? He is seriously scared to death of them and especially his ''poor'' kids. UGH, thanks everyone for listening.
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I would hope that he feels tied to his kids...

How do you feel about his children? Do you see yourself as their mother, or just their competition? I ask this because your posts don''t mention anything about a relationship between you and these children. Does he not spend much time with them? I can''t imagine a wedding that takes place without the children of one of the people getting married. If I was going to become a step-mother, I would be very intent on building a relationship with the children, and I am perplexed by the fact that your fiance hasn''t told them. This situation isn''t really setting up a foundation for the future.
 

diamondfan

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
11,016
Maybe this is not a good time for him to be engaged. In truth, to me, it does not sound like he has moved forward if he is still so tied to them. You will be his wife and he cannot just be an adult and discuss it? Maybe his ex needs to be a bit more real too, and stop going to her former mother in law with lies. Maybe his kids need to know that mommy and daddy are not getting back together, that they both love them but sometimes two adults cannot live together well, and that he has found someone he wants to be with. Now, they might be a little young for it, and most kids wants their mom and dad to get back together, but they need to be gently told that you and he are getting married. Lying to all concerned, hiding your engagement, removing your ring, that is just very immature to me. Either his marriage is over and he is an adult and can face the music, or he is not. I cannot help but have some empathy as family dramas are so tough, but yet, he is only prolonging and deepening these issues.
 

kittybean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
4,125
I wish I could tell you otherwise, but everyone who has said your man isn''t ready to be engaged to you is right. If he has to keep the engagement a secret from his entire family, that is not truly an engagement--unless he is willing to cut off ties with the family, which certainly does not sound like what he is going to do or should do, for that matter. I think it is time for an ultimatum: either the engagement is made public or it is called off. Don''t put yourself into a position where you always come in last . . .

Sending you lots of courage, confidence and hope,

Kitty
 

gwendolyn

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
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6,770
Date: 5/22/2008 8:27:47 PM
Author: KimberlyH
If I were in your shoes I'd tell him it's time to fess up to his family or you need to move on with your life as woman who is not engaged. At some point we all have to grow up and take a stand. His children should always be his first priority, but that doesn't mean you should come in last and it sounds like you've really gotten the short end of the stick.
I agree.

It sounds like your (louisvgirl) feelings when he lied to his kids and ex-wife about there not being a ring were not a consideration at all. And after you were sympathetic to him wanting to wait to tell them! Presumably that was for him to figure out a way of breaking the news, but after seven months and a WIDE opening to 'fess up which only made him lie, it makes me wonder what his real motivation was in keeping quiet, because I don't think it *was* to figure out a tactful way of sharing the news. Sounds like he wants to live two separate lives, which is highly unfair to you and to his children (if he will continue to feel the need to lie to them about you and your relationship, which throws up a red flag all on its own). I think you are being taking for granted, and I don't think you should stand for it any longer.

You may love this man, and he may love you, but it takes more than love to have a healthy relationship, and from what is in this thread, the relationship does not appear to be healthy to me at all, for anyone involved. I'd call off or at least postpone (in hopes he might change? I realize this is unlikely but if you can't cut things off in one move...) the engagement to show that his behaviour towards you and his children isn't acceptable. I'm sorry.
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purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Congratulations, you''re semi-engaged to a liar
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I do have sympathy for your situation, but girl, what were you thinking? His willingness to lie to his own mom is pretty indicative of his character. Look at the big picture and stop telling yourself this is only about THIS situation and that he wouldn''t lie about other things. A person who will lie to their own family to avoid unpleasantness will also lie about other things to avoid drama.

I''d give him ONE chance to come clean, and tell him there will be no more lies about anything period. No "little white lies", no "fibs", no nuttin'' but the whole truth. Honesty is the foundation of any relationship.
 

Bia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
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Date: 5/23/2008 8:48:11 AM
Author: purrfectpear
Congratulations, you''re semi-engaged to a liar
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I do have sympathy for your situation, but girl, what were you thinking? His willingness to lie to his own mom is pretty indicative of his character. Look at the big picture and stop telling yourself this is only about THIS situation and that he wouldn''t lie about other things. A person who will lie to their own family to avoid unpleasantness will also lie about other things to avoid drama.

I''d give him ONE chance to come clean, and tell him there will be no more lies about anything period. No ''little white lies'', no ''fibs'', no nuttin'' but the whole truth. Honesty is the foundation of any relationship.
AMEN to that.
 

nimue

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
5
I have to agree with everyone else. This is not a good situation. I was involved with a man like this, but not for very long. I try to be a very honest person and I can''t live with lies. I think they are extremely damaging.

You need to decide what you want in this relationship. Is this really good enough for you? Does it make you feel loved and happy inside? My ex never told ANYONE about me, even when he was in the hospital and didn''t know if he was going to make it through an operation. I was a huge secret, a ghost. It took me a while to realize that life with someone you love shouldn''t be like that. So I left him.

You should not be anyone''s secret. He should love you openly to EVERYONE.
 

Bia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
6,181
Date: 5/23/2008 9:32:57 AM
Author: nimue
I have to agree with everyone else. This is not a good situation. I was involved with a man like this, but not for very long. I try to be a very honest person and I can''t live with lies. I think they are extremely damaging.

You need to decide what you want in this relationship. Is this really good enough for you? Does it make you feel loved and happy inside? My ex never told ANYONE about me, even when he was in the hospital and didn''t know if he was going to make it through an operation. I was a huge secret, a ghost. It took me a while to realize that life with someone you love shouldn''t be like that. So I left him.

You should not be anyone''s secret. He should love you openly to EVERYONE.
Out of curiosity, how did your ex (and anyone who has experienced this) justify keeping you a secret? That is so weird to me. How do you not meet his friends and family, ever? Or when you would bump into people, what would he say?
 

louisvgirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
323
Thank you all for your imput. I knew that I had the right to be upset after all this happened. I just really feel like ***t, right now. I know that at this point, i have to put my foot down. I''m just going to try and gather my thoughts and words. Like I said, we are still not on speaking terms. Thank you
 

Independent Gal

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
5,471
I'm going to take a (not-so-wild) guess that you were having an affair with this man while he was still married. That would explain:

1) You being used to / willing to put up with him hiding you and lying about you
2) You being used to / willing to put up with him being a liar in general
3) His mom taking his wife's side
4) The fact that you got engaged 'soon after' he got divorced.

Is this the case? Because if it is and he is STILL lying about you? You have a loooong hard life ahead of you.

I would also ask you, for the childrens' sake, to think seriously about your role in relation to them. It sounds like you wish they didn't exist. That's not very healthy for either of you, or for your fiance, or for your relationship with him. Please remember that these are CHILDREN, that they have no fault in all of this, that they haven't got anythign near the emotional or psychological maturity to deal with the situation 'like adults', and that therefore your fiance, if he is a decent human being, must put them first ALONG with you. That you must put them first too if you want to be married to their dad.

That doesn't mean he should hide you from them. That means quite the opposite. But you have to try your very hardest to love these little children.

Step-parents who see children as competition are highly destructive and can damage children for life.
 

Independent Gal

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
5,471
Hm. Yeah. No offense, but are you sure you WANT to be married to a man like this? He sounds like a big lying, cheating, scheming baby.

He won''t stop lying or scheming or cheating or not being able to deal with people like a grown up just because he''s married to you. You know that, right?

Run. A. Way.
 

louisvgirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
323
No this is not the case. Sorry, The ex- has no family. They ALL felt sorry for her because she pretty much took care of herself growing up. They consider her their "daughter". She was very much tied to her work, ignored and put no effort into her marriage, and basically slept with the kids when she got home. He tried and tried with the relationship and fell out of love with her and disconnected from the marriage. He left. Met me 6 months later. So no, we did not have an affair!
 

FrekeChild

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
19,456
How long have they been divorced?
 

Bia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
6,181
Louisvgirl: It sounds like you have realized this situation is no longer working and that''s good because, honestly honey, its been a long time coming. I can imagine getting engaged you wanted to shout from the rooftops, and not being able to, that just sucks. You let him know the deal, and you''re saying you''re not speaking. Is he angry that you''re putting your foot down? If he is, let him be. He needs to know that from here on out, your relationship is all on the table, or completely off. You do not want a life like this...I know because I have seen it before with a family member who lived through her entire first marriage coming second to her husband''s first family. She tried and tried--with her MIL, his children, his family...and nothing. She finally had enough and found someone who gave her what she needed.

If he is smart, I am sure he is, he will learn to incorporate his children into your new life, letting the ex know that she is welcome as their mother, but no longer as his wife. Have the courage to make your intentions clear because if you don''t he has no reason to change.

And if you do stick to your guns and he continues to wimp out, then think about letting it be, because there are other men out there that would be happy to give you everything you want and deserve.

Best of luck...
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Independent Gal

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
5,471
Well, that's good to hear! (I mean that you weren't together before the divorce).

But I'm still concerned that he seems so sneaky and dishonest. It doesn't make sense and it's worrying. What possible GOOD reason could he have for hiding you? The fact that he's willing to lie and lie and lie for months on end, and even to ask YOU to lie in order to avoid dealing with difficult matters is really worrying. Seriously, are you sure you want to marry a man with this character?

And what about the kids, are you ready to be a mom to them? To love them and take care of them? Have you really thought that part through?
 
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