It''s not just the gal''s

[perry]

I just stumbled on this thread within pricescope.

Would you belive that I actually proposed 4 months ago and all she has said is "not yet."

There have been some issues to resolve, and a bit of outside interfearence (an old freind). But she has not made any attempt to eliminate the outside situation while noting that there is and never will be anything with her old freind...

She wanted a 3 stone ring, and I have the side stones (part of the proposal) and was going to let her be involved in picking out the center stone and the ring (all discussed up front). Those sidestones are about as good as they get for cut and took Good Old Gold several months to find.

She says that she still wants to marry me someday and is working on it; but not right now....

Anyway, I''m beginning to wonder if she will ever really come arround.

Thought you should know that it is not just you gals who have to wait.

So I guess, Jenwell should add me to the list.

Perry

 

[AmberGretchen]

Hey Perry - welcome to the LIW board (from a former LIW). I''m sorry to hear about your situation with your gf. Has she given you real reasons why she can''t commit? Is she just not ready to be "tied down"? I hope that things do work out for you, it sounds like a difficult situation, and we wish you the best of luck. Please keep us updated on your situation - this board is very helpful.

 

[elephant]

Hi Perry,

Welcome. Don''t be too downtrodden. My cousin''s now-husband proposed three times and she said "not yet" every time. She DID want to marry him, but she had some personal issues to work out. Finally, after the third proposal, he said, "Look, I''ve proposed three times and you''ve turned me down -- next time it''s YOUR turn." So, they dated for five years and finally at his brother''s wedding in Paris, she proposed to him on the Eiffel Tower. They did end up getting married and are now expecting their 2nd child and couldn''t be happier.

So, I thought I would share that story with you and hopefully, it would cheer you up. (Athough, I would want a sincere effort on her part to start resolving and working on the issues of the relationship as a contingent for you sticking around....)

Good luck!

 

[FireGoddess]

elephant - I love a story with a happy ending...though kudos to your cousin's husband for doing what he did...I wonder if I were a man...would I even ask 3 times??? Good for him for turning the tables.

perry, I am sorry to hear about your situation. I would definitely want some solid reasons to find out what exactly is behind her "not yet" answer and what she's doing to resolve those issues. If she's not ready, she's not ready...but the questions to find out answers to are: will she EVER be ready, what will it take to become ready, and can that happen within some forseeable timeframe? it's not fair to you either to be carried along in limbo without a forseeable ending, or at least a checklist of things that need to be accomplished first. Please keep us posted...I hope everything works out for you.

 

[HOUMedGal]

Welcome Perry!!! You''ll find us a wonderful group with whom to vent and commiserate on bad days, and celebrate on good days!!!! I hope everything works out for you. Good luck!

 

[heart prongs]

All right Perry, you''re talking to a group of women here...what''s up with the "outside situation"? You opened up a huge can of worms....

I don''t mean to be nosey, but...

 

[kanne]

awww Perry...welcome to the boards. My advice is to follow your heart. If it feels right to you then have patience. One of my co-workers got THREE engagement rings from her husband. Each time, they broke up or argued and the ring went back to the store. The third ring was the charm, she said yes and they have been happily married for 12 years (with two kids).

 

[perry]

Thanks All:

Nice to know that I am not the only one to go through this. As far as the story.... It's long and complicated. I suspose if it was simple I would never have to post.

I am not sure that I can list all of the issues or potential issues: But here is my first attempt at providing the backgroud.

D & I first met about 22 years ago when I got out of the Navy and entered college. She met me at a casual party over Xmass break and was impressed so much she hunted me up (she went to that party with another). She attended another college that was several hours away, and neither of us had a car.

We dated for about 1.5 years as best we could. Writing a lot, and I used to periodically send her flowers (I remember the one weekend when I visited her all of her dormates knew who I was -- I was the guy who sent flowers...). One thing important to the story. She wished to retain her viginty - and I respected that (not saying that we didn't "snuggle"); thus, when it ended she had that to carry into her eventual marriage.

One of the biggest issues of the day back then was that she belongs to a specific relegious sect - Christian Science - and could not see how I could support her decission to practice her religion when I was not allso a member of her church (dispite the fact that only her father was a member of her church - and her mother was not).

Many people within her religion worked to convince her that she had to marry within her faith; they also advised her that the best way to end it was to just disappear with no notice to me at all. She did and it hurt. I did hunt her up (it is hard to hide when you are a member of a small religious sect) and we had a long talk. But, end of the story was that it was over and that she was now dating within her own religion.

So she dropped out of sight and I heard through a chain of family and freinds that she had gotten married and moved out west. Occasionally I would get word that she was still arround and doing "OK" as one person knew that D was one of the 2 people that I had been interested enough to marry.

I never married. My life had great ups and downs. My professional carrear was destroyed (I had buit my life arround my job and not myself), I had health issues, I was long term unemployed, I did interesting things for money (all legal - but things that many would not do). I tried this and that, made $, lost $, etc and finally got back into a job track where I could get enough money and health insurance to figure out my health issues.

17 years later, and 3 years ago, I get a phone call out of the blue. It's D. She had taken the time to track me down (I had moved 13 times in 12 years as I chased jobs and opportunities). She wanted to appologize and talk. It turns out that her marriage had failed a dozen years ago (gross infidelity on his part), and that she had dated several other people within her faith - none of which worked and caused many problems --- and --- and -- and realized that I had treated her better and had expressed a better understanding of her 17 years ago than anyone else she had married or dated. Could we talk...

Well the fact is that I knew that we had grown apart in that time. I was not the same person that she remembered from college. She would not be the same person I remembered either.

We have talked for the last 3 years and gotten together for weekends and small trips.

She lives 6 hours away, and is employed within her religion. She cannot redily get a full time job in her field where I live and might only get a part time job - if even that. We have discussed the possibility of her taking a 2 or 3 day a week job that would be several hours away (in good driving condition) and staying down there one or 2 nights a week. She does not wish to give up her chosen carrear at this point - it is a part of her and a part of her religion.

My job pays a lot more and I have a house in an area that houses are not mooving fast (2-3 years to sell). I have paid off over $30,000 in debt in the last 4 years and have about $15,000 to go. I cannot redily move her direction either without taking a very substaintial pay cut (Nuclear Power pays well above average for those who can pass the security clearance and handle the work hours, stress, and pressure).

We are both highly individualistic people. And the concept of marriage is not so much that we really need each other, but that we want to share each other and help out with the small things and help each other achieve more. In my case, I have a side business that I feel is my future and is tough to do with my health problems - but would be far easier with someone to help (I'm back to cooking all my meals due to food allergies to some ingredients and a lot of modern additives).

To complicate the situation; one of her old guyfreinds hunts her up a couple of years ago. Doesn't bother me as D and I are only talking and have made no claims to each other.

He becomes unemployed, which turns to long term unemployment, and moves in with her so that he can "jobhunt" in a larger city (his original job was in the Montana/Idaho area where the local plant was about it). I actually understand a lot of what he is going through as I was also long term unemployed and lost my carrear as a plant engineer once.

Unfortunately - he consideres me his mortal enemy and refuses to let D even mention my name. He also starts controlling who she can see (her freinds can no longer visit) and call. He takes over her computer and e-mail account. All of this so she can "help him." (and she loves to help people). The fact is that a year later he has yet to find a job - he hasn't even looked. He lives in her place, controlls her life, eats her food, etc and has lots of reasons why he cannot look for work yet (god has not told him to yet, and god has told him that she will be his wife).

During all of this D and I do talk a lot (she has a cellphone and does independent home service work), and I try to keep her pointed in the right direction and maintain her sanity (this guy knows how to push all of her "religions responsibility" buttons). She now realizes that he must go - but has not yet come up with the gumption to kick him out.

The guy through an absolute fit a few weeks ago when birthday flowers showed up for D (unsigned)

So she says she wants to marry me, is going to kick this guy out (now realizing that virtually everything I have ever said about him is correct -- I would have booted him about day 3 once he showed is "user" attitude).

But is concerned about leaving her current position, and is I sense that she is uncomfortable with my current debt (she paid off several thousand from her ex husband).

My original proposal was during one of those times when we though that he had gone home (out west) and was not returning.

Anyway, that's the gist of it.

Both of us seem to see how we would build a much better life together than appart - or at least I really see that, and I'm fairly shur see sees that as well as I am the only one who she has met that always treated her right - and want's to see her achive some of her "pie in the sky" dreams (which I think are quite possible).

The biggest thing that hurt 20 years ago was when she told me that someday I would find another who deserved to be treated the way I always treated her.

Perry

 

[elephant]

Wow, Perry, that''s an incredible story. I hate to sound negative, but honestly, it sounds like she really needs to get her priorities straight. If she''s going to be with you, she''s going to be with you. This situation sounds like a little more than, "she really likes to help out...." My male roommates have never acted like that. She should arrange a new place to for this man to stay and make your relationship a priority IF it IS a priority for her...? She''s enabling this man''s behavior to continue. Are you SURE he''s not more than a friend? I don''t want to cause doubt, but possessiveness seems to be a strange characteristic for someone who is just a friend.... Maybe I didn''t understand properly...?

Just my two cents, I hope I didn''t come off as harsh.... Best of luck to you!

 

[perry]

Elephant:

Thanks for the comments. There are lots of little things that got left out on my long post above. How do you adequately explain all of the details.... Let''s just say that I''m not sure if I would help explain better or just confuse things more here on the board by trying to fill in between the lines.

You are right, there is more there (or more accurately there once was). However, I personally believe that the reason he is so possessive is that he does not see that he has anywhere else to go, and he is a dominant controller personality type, and he can leach (or at least so far) off of D.

Classic power play - he has control and doesn''t want to give it up.

In our recent conversations I believe that D is finally beginning to see the situation for what it really is. The point then comes at what point does she kick him out - or ask for help kicking him out.

D has never come face to face with a person whom she could not help before - a person who is only going to leach. I have faith that she will grow becuase of this.

I have hope that she will realize that she can help me too.

Perry

 

[FireGoddess]

It''s really, really hard for me to read about a woman whose entire life is being controlled by a man (or just another person in general)...much less an EX person whom she is just "friends" with and trying to "help out." I''m sure she has a big heart and may think she can get through to him and help him, but at WHAT EXPENSE? Her freedom and happiness? Your [collective] happiness?? It''s infuriating! It must take great restraint for you to not just go over there and kick his @ss out of her house. Because that''s what I would do.

Frankly, he sounds dangerous. Not allowing her to speak your name???? Not allowing her friends to come over? Monitoring her access to her phone and her email? GET HIM OUT OF THERE. Seriously. He clearly wants a renewed relationship with her and doesn''t seem like the type to just "let go" without a serious fight. Honestly - maybe getting the strength to get rid of a lecherous person would help her to grow, but I wouldn''t wait around for that to happen. Even if she does...do you think he''s going to just accept that??? It doesn''t sound like it.

Personally I would ask her if she wants help getting rid of him. Maybe she''s afraid. And then you guys can continue on the path to your future, and overcome obstacles together. I wish you luck.

 

[perry]

Firegoddess:

I agree with you and have advised D that at the first sign of any violance to get out of the house.

Trust me that if I was local he would have been long gone by now; and yes I have shown great restaint.

I am also ready to drop everything and miss a day or two at work the minute D tells me that she needs help. I have several different scenerios planned out.

She has turned down my previous offers to help (thinking that he would leave). I will ask again now she has realized that he will not leave on his own and that my long hours at work are finished (the previous 6 weeks it was all work and almost no time for play - or even life).

Perry

 

[FireGoddess]

Perry - I really really hope she takes you up on your offer to help!! This guy just sounds like trouble with a capital T. I imagine that not only does he want to be more than friends with her - he probably also doesn''t want to give up his free room and board situation he''s worked out so nicely for himself.

I do hope she accepts your help - he seems unlikely to just go at her request (or without a fight, I surmise from his complete control issues). Good luck.

 

[Rube]

Hi perry

I wish you the best. It does sound like D has a point not wanting to get married at this time. But, that does not mean your lady shouldn''t start straightening out her life now! It is definitly NOT healthy to live like she is. Get rid of that controlling man. Whatever it takes.

If you are both really comitted to each other, which it sounds like you are, then you can take the next two years to slowly move forward, eventually landing together. You sound like you are on the right track to get your debt paid off in that amount of time, and if you decide to, you can put your house on the market. Meanwhile D can get back on her own two feet and start seeing her friends again, and mentally preparing for a marriage, a move, a new life situation. Make sure you are able to live comfortably with the religious differences too.

Then... you can pick out a whopping pricescope-quality stone.

Keep us updated.

-Rube

 

[perry]

Here''s an update on the situation. I have been really busy this week and have not had much time to spend on Pricescope this past week.

I made arrangements for D to "recieve" a gift I was sending her to arrive over several days and probably to be delivered early in the morning.

Then I drove over, and presented her with my gift: That today was "X''s" moving day, and that I would toss him out and send him on his way (even to the point of giving him gas money to get home). I explained that my offer was independent of if she ever married me, and that as a freind that I could not stand by without offering to help.

D did not accept my offer. She feels that even though she agrees that "X" has to go - that she needs to learn to gather the strenght to do it herself. D feels that accepting help would cheat her of the opportunity to learn how to deal with the situation. D also indicated that I was not the first to offet to toss "X" out.

E expressed my concern that "X" knew how to push all of "D''s" buttons and that she may never learn untill, or well after, "X" has blead her dry (emotionally and financially); and that there was nothing wrong with accepting help with things that you cannot do on your own.

Anyway, D & I have since had several long talks.

D does understand that our potential for marriage is on hold until, although she will always be my freind.

She has admitted that she may later ask for help; but that she feels that it is up to her to do the task at this point.

She also understands that I might move on at some point; but is amazed in part in that I did not just walk out on her and agreed to continue to talk about issues - something that she realizes that only a person that really carred for another would do.

That is the basics of the situation. I drove home in peace knowing that ether D will take care of things, or that other things will work out. The choice that is upon her has been clearly laid out.

Perry

 

[perry]

Another update.

D called to inform me that I was right about him, that she never would have believed it before. Anyway, D tells me that she is asking him straight out to leave.

That is a very positive step. D does so much better with him not arround. I am sure that she will figure out what she should do with the rest of her live once she is free to live her own life.

Perry

 

[stretch4]

Oh Perry that is a wonderful update!!

Good for her!!

 

[FireGoddess]

Perry,

I think what you did was very kind, selfless, noble, and considerate. I truly wish she had accepted your "gift." I think that, to be deserving of you, she needs to get her act together, her gumption, whatever it may be and get him the heck out of there PRONTO. Till then, you have truly done all you can. I hope she realizes that every day he''s still there is just a wasted day and one day later that the rest of her life can begin. I don''t know her, but it angers me that she isn''t doing this sooner, and more forcefully. I hope this gets resolved soon for both your sakes. I''m keeping my fingers crossed, and can only hope she has TRULY "seen the light? with this leech. Good luck.

 

[Buena Girl]

Date: 6/5/2005 1:06:16 AM
Author: FireGoddess
Perry,

I think what you did was very kind, selfless, noble, and considerate. I truly wish she had accepted your ''gift.'' I think that, to be deserving of you, she needs to get her act together, her gumption, whatever it may be and get him the heck out of there PRONTO. Till then, you have truly done all you can. I hope she realizes that every day he''s still there is just a wasted day and one day later that the rest of her life can begin. I don''t know her, but it angers me that she isn''t doing this sooner, and more forcefully. I hope this gets resolved soon for both your sakes. I''m keeping my fingers crossed, and can only hope she has TRULY ''seen the light? with this leech. Good luck.

A BIG DITTO to everything that FireGoddess so wisely said!

 

[Croí]

wow Perry

that is some incredible story. you sound like a very caring, intelligent man who knows himself well. hopefully your ''D'' will come to know herself better and realise the huge disaster she has brought on herself by having this other man in her house.

I sincerely hope this all works out for the best and that you both find happiness.

wishing you all the luck in the world
C

P.S. stories always show us that too much of a thing (in this case, her religion ruling her life) really is a bad thing. perhaps he wouldn''t be able to manipulate her so much if she had more of a sense of herself FOR herself, rather than only seeing herself as part of the bigger picture of her faith. I think it''s really sad. I hope she finds a way to see that she deserves happiness for happiness own sake and not just because some "higher power" chooses to let her have it.

(absolutely not intended to offend any religious folk)