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samkongado

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
66
Well, I''ve never posted on this forum by I swing by every once in a while just to get a female perspective on things. So here''s my story and I''d love to hear any opinions or comments...

I''ve been with my girlfriend for about 5 years, and we have a great relationship. We moved to a new city together a little under a year ago, and before we left she made it clear she was struggling to move in with me before we were engaged, but she decided to anyway as I was not ready to get engaged or married yet. Anyway, I''ve been planning out my proposal for a couple months now, and during that time my girlfriend made it VERY obvious that she was more than ready to get engaged. While I never straight out said "I will marry you" I made it very clear that I was in it for the long haul and that we would have a family and be together forever. However, she has always had trust issues (not with me but just in general) and I think she never fully believed me, or at least wasn''t completely sure that''s what I wanted. I''d never told her "I''m planning on proposing" or "I''ve been ring shopping" or anything like that because it was always my intention to completely surprise her one day with an amazing proposal and absolutely sweep her off her feet.

So, to make a long story short, last night we got into an argument and the root of it was that she was mad that she has been living with me this long and I haven''t proposed yet, and that she was highly considering moving out in a month if I don''t make some sort of decision for good. Unlike other times we''ve talked about it, she wasn''t looking for a "trust me I love you I want to be with you have faith in me." She was looking for confirmation. So, I felt I was left with no choice but to tell her I''ve been planning a proposal and been ring shopping for the last month. Well, that totally changed her demeanor and she went from mad at me to being sort of mad at herself and sad that she may have ruined the surprise. Needless to say I was sad too, I had been getting so excited to plan out the details of the proposal and to see her face when I actually asked. But now I feel like that''s all ruined. It totally took all the wind out of my sails. I feel like now if I propose I will just sort of be "going through the motions" without all the excitement and energy behind it because she knows it''s coming. Of course when she asked me then if I was mad at her I couldn''t say I was because she was already upset and felt bad, and if I told her how disappointed I was it would just make her feel even worse. But now I just feel sort of blah... I was probably going to propose next week or the week after, and I guess I still want to but it just doesn''t have the same meaning, you know?

I know a lot of the girls here know a proposal is coming, and may have even helped pick out the ring themselves, but I''ve always had the idea my whole life that I''d surprise my girlfriend one day and totally shock her with an amazing proposal. It sort of takes the romanticism out of it this way. Although it''s an exaggeration, I feel like maybe I should just buy the ring and give it to her and ask her if she''ll marry me, very straight forward.

So I''d love to hear any feedback or comments, or suggestions of anything I should do- from a female point of view. And to all the ladies who are pressing their man in the same way, just a word of caution: be careful because you might end up pressing too hard and he''ll have to do something he''s not ready to do.

Thanks a lot to everyone...

-SG
 

rainbowtrout

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
2,105
I know from my side of this, it feels odd to wait in limbo for the man to decide he wants to marry me. It took me just as long to decide *I* wanted to marry *him*--it''s as if people assume women are always slavering over getting married.

If she really had no indication and you knew she was uncomfortable moving in with you, I can see her point. In her head she probably came up with a deadline, and since neither of you were up for talking about it, she hit her deadline and you got deflated.

In other words, a little talking or "hints" can be good, that way this doesn''t have to happen.
 

samkongado

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
66
Well, that''s the fine line- I feel like she did have indication from me. I had told her on several occassions that I want to spend my life with her and that we will have kids and the whole nine yards. I just never said "I will marry you" because the word marry was something I wanted to save for the final question of "will you marry me?" But I felt like I had made it pretty clear to her that we''d be together for good. Of course my definition of "made it clear" is probably different than hers, and like I said she''s had trust issues her whole life so I totally see her point as well. But it''s hard not to feel sad and let down that I no longer get to surprise her with a proposal, something I had always looked forward to.
 

Patchee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
327
Hey, I''m a woman but I do agree with you on your surprise being runied! Sorry about that. She gave you an ultimative of "if you don''t propose, I am moving out in a month". Now, if I was you I would not propose to her right now, but wait it out for 2 months. See if she leaves you... and if that is the case after her knowing that you had/have intention of proposing then maybe you should re-assesse your relationship. And, again, I am a women.

If she does not up and leave then still wait a bit, get that fun feeling of surprise back. Your only going to do it once so make is very special... you deserve for it to be romantic as well as she does. If she continues to carry on, then call her bluff and say here, here is your ring.. marry me... she will feel like ass then because there was nothing special about it but she wanted it so much - so there, there you go.

I just started brining up future with my guy.. just once, about almost a month ago, I won''t bring it up again any time soon.. I figure if he wants what I want then the ball is in his court to make the next move.. no pushing.

It''s got to be rough as a guy to feel that push of a women, no? I wish you luck with your next steps, but do what you feel is right to do, make you happy to afterall, it is a two way street.
 

vizsla

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,015
i totally get this....

to me i don''t understand why guys feel the need to drag out the inevitable... if you knew perfectly well that this was something you wanted AND you knew her feelings about being engaged before moving in together AND you were going on many months withOUT an engagement then..... yeah...... i totally get her frustration.....

if there was no secret about your girlfriend''s feelings about you and your intent to marry her... then just DO IT...

i think there is only so much and so long each girl can be in a holding pattern .... and these are not isolated feelings your girlfriend had... i know A LOT of people who found themselves in the same situation. finally they got to the point where they were like.. ENOUGH ALREADY... I''M READY NOW...... and so we blow up.

yes, i know you should both be ready, i''m right there with you.. but if each knows the intent of the other.. they both know they will marry....... i''ll just never understand the man''s waiting game... sorry.
you have to compromise with her timeframe as well (she was probably ready years ago) and skip over any resentment.

that''s not to say that she''s not going to love your proposal any less... sure the BIG surprise might have a little of the shine rubbed off, but it''s still going to be exciting.... and she''s going to love it... and the two of you are going to live happily ever after.
let this be a lesson to all guys.. STOP DRAGGING YOUR FEET.. it''s annoying ;-)
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Caribou

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
1,226
Welcome Sam!!
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First to clear something up, just because your G/F knows about the porposal doesn''t not mean that it won''t be romantic. I knew my FI and I were going to get engaged, I didn''t know when or how but I knew it was coming, we had been talking about getting married and had gone ring shopping. He asked me one night, and although it was pretty uneventful, it was very sweet and romantic too me. So you can plan a romantic proposal even though she knows the proposal is coming.

I''m sorry that you both are disappointed by your revelation to her..but I blame you both (from what I read)!!!! *Scold alert*
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Communication is key!!! First, if she was apprenhensive about moving in with you before being engaged than she should have listened to that..did you both have to move in before? Could she have moved in with her parents? (I know, not ideal, I mean I''m 33 and moved back home w/mom instead of with my FI because we didn''t want to live together first) Second, you should have been more straight forward with her, not beat around the bush...come out and say ''I want to marry you and knock you up one day!''
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Obviously not that crudly ''...and you be the mother of my children'' much better. *scolding over*

You could make it fun for both of you...go ring shopping together. GIRLS LOVE THAT!
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(unless of course you''ve already bought her the ring). But either way....make the proposal romantic, find a place she loves or both of yours ''special place''...for example, the place you had your first date or the place where you first meet. Or, propose where you had your first kiss....start off by saying something like ''do you know where we are at....and what this place means to us'' She''ll be tickled pink that you even remembered.
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DO NOT just hand her the ring and say ''so do you want to marry me or what?''
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I mean, I understand your disappointment but now you''ll just have to work harder to make this romantic for both of you. YOU CAN DO IT!

Congratulations by the way...and don''t let this disappointment affect your romantic proposal.
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applechick

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
9
Hey -

I am a 27 female in a similar situation to your girl (been together 5 years, moved in together a year ago, although we didn''t move anywhere - we live in NYC). This is my first time posting although I have been lurking for a while.

I personally can understand why your girl freaked out. We''re always taught to expect a guy to explicitly use the M word -- if somehow he beats around the bush, we''re always taught "he isn''t that into you." I''m not saying all girls believe this, but many do ... I certainly do and I am pretty relaxed (in that I let my boyfriend say I love you first, bring up our future, bring up moving in together).

The other thing I''d say is that I think the whole "surprise" aspect of proposing is somewhat overblown. You are committing to a life together. It shouldn''t be out of the blue in that sense. And the event is exciting by itself, whether or not it is a surprise. The important thing is making the whole evening a nice celebration of your commitment.

If you want to surprise her, I suggest enlisting the help of someone else - her parents, friends, boss, anyone you trust to keep their mouth SHUT. Have her friend/parent/whoever call her and make plans with her one night. This way she will definitely think "tonight is not the night." But somehow arrange to have her friend deliver her to wherever you want to propose. Just a thought.

Good luck!

K
 

ljmorgan

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
1,037
As I''m sure you already have, consider her feelings.

It was important for her to be at least engaged before she moved in with you -- and she put her feelings and possibly morals aside to go ahead and move and be with you. She has probably wondered why you haven''t proposed since it has been nearly a year AFTER you two have moved in together, since you knew how she felt. I understand you''ve tried to make her secure in you''re future together, but like you mentioned, your idea of explicit and hers are likely not similiar. Just because you say you want to be with her and have kids doesn''t necessarily translate to marriage for her. Since you''re already living together, she could have been worrying you planned on the two of you just living together for a long time, which doesn''t sound like what she wants at all.

I won''t be moving in with my boyfriend until we''re engaged. I told him that a long time ago and he has respected that. I just don''t feel like we have any business living together without planning to be married. Everyone feels differently, but it sounds like your girlfriend may feel that way.

You may not get the proposal of your dreams, but in return you will instead have the wife of your dreams which will last much longer. I would recommend proposing soon as planned -- she probably isn''t expecting a proposal in the next week or two anyway, which is what you said you had wanted to do anyway. She''s probably expecting a few months, so surprise her with an early proposal ;-) I wish you two the best!
 

glitterata

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
3,916
I think this is totally your fault. Five years is a long time. You knew she was uncomfortable living with you before being engaged. You were giving her mixed messages--you told her you weren't ready to get engaged, but you wanted her to have your children. What does that mean to a woman? That you want her to have children with you out of wedlock? That you are trying to make her shut up and stop bugging you, but you don't really intend to go through with marrying her? That you're jerking her around?

You put your need to totally surprise her above her need to know your intentions for the future and be in a relationship with a status that didn't make her miserable. Why is surprising her so important that it was worth making her miserable for months or years, so much so that she considered leaving you?

I think this fight is about control. You needed to be the one in control of whether you get married, when, and even when and whether she knows it's going to happen. In order to be in control yourself, you let her feel like she had no say in her own life.

Eventually she decided to take control and change the situation she hated. She told you if you didn't propose in a month, she would move out. Good for her. She took steps to get out of a situation she could no longer live with.

And you're mad at her about the ruined surprise? You should be mad at yourself about it. If you had even taken a small step to make her less miserable, such as telling her you were shopping for a ring or proposing sooner, you could have had your precious surprise without torturing her to the point that she was considering leaving you.
 

rainbowtrout

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
2,105
So, my DB and I had the "we want to marry each other" talk about a year ago. It reassured both of us and we knew that when the time was right it would happen (not that I haven''t been impatient about the ring, but that''s more a social thing so I can go about and show it to people)


The talk didn''t AT ALL deflate the surprise of the future proposal. If anything it made it more exciting! As a woman, I know that when a man will NOT use the word marry, our internal alarm bells start ticking. WHY won''t he use that word.


To the poster who suggested he wait until after her deadline. I don''t think playing those sorts of games in a relationship are a good idea AT ALL. This woman has jumped through enough hoops from the sound of it.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
I can understand about the surprise factor being ruined and that you are disappointed, but your GF has waited a long time for a commitment from you ( legally) and she has obviously decided she has had enough. I too can understand her frustration with waiting for the proposal that so far hasn't been forthcoming - this is about the two of you and if you wanted to marry her, it seems that your surprise plans and wanting to wait has threatened your relationship, maybe the surprise factor isn't important to her and a definite commitment might have meant much more, even if you had proposed in the street with an elastic band for an e-ring. Please don't take my thoughts the wrong way, you asked for a female perspective on this. I am not your GF but if I had wanted to marry you and you hadn't have proposed within a reasonable time period, I would have walked - let alone wait 5 years!

I think you need to have a heart to heart talk ASAP and tell her of your surprise plans that you wanted to make it special for her and weren't avoiding a proposal or marriage and see what you can work out between you that will make you both happy. A proposal doesn't have to be a surprise to be romantic, many of our LIW's knew it was coming and it was still so joyous for them. Hearts and flowers and champagne and location all have their place, but the most important part of any proposal is the love and promise you make to each other when you agree to spend the rest of your lives together. Even if you set a definite date and time for the proposal you can still make it memorable and special FOR BOTH OF YOU!

I hope you can sort this out and I wish you the best of luck.
 

Erin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2004
Messages
2,783
Date: 3/24/2006 10:29:15 AM
Author:samkongado

And to all the ladies who are pressing their man in the same way, just a word of caution: be careful because you might end up pressing too hard and he''ll have to do something he''s not ready to do.
And to all the men who are dragging their feet in the same way, just a word of caution: be careful because your girlfriend may not give you a one month warning. Maybe she''ll be so frustrated and miserable she keep her timeline to herself and one day you''ll come home and half your life will be missing.
 

stermag

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
433
Date: 3/24/2006 11:31:10 AM
Author: glitterata
I think this is totally your fault. Five years is a long time. You knew she was uncomfortable living with you before being engaged. You were giving her mixed messages--you told her you weren''t ready to get engaged, but you wanted her to have your children. What does that mean to a woman? That you want her to have children with you out of wedlock? That you are trying to make her shut up and stop bugging you, but you don''t really intend to go through with marrying her? That you''re jerking her around?


You put your need to totally surprise her above her need to know your intentions for the future and be in a relationship with a status that didn''t make her miserable. Why is surprising her so important that it was worth making her miserable for months or years, so much so that she considered leaving you?


I think this fight is about control. You needed to be the one in control of whether you get married, when, and even when and whether she knows it''s going to happen. In order to be in control yourself, you let her feel like she had no say in her own life.


Eventually she decided to take control and change the situation she hated. She told you if you didn''t propose in a month, she would move out. Good for her. She took steps to get out of a situation she could no longer live with.


And you''re mad at her about the ruined surprise? You should be mad at yourself about it. If you had even taken a small step to make her less miserable, such as telling her you were shopping for a ring or proposing sooner, you could have had your precious surprise without torturing her to the point that she was considering leaving you.

I was getting ready to comment, gathering my thoughts, and then I read this ... suddely, I feel like anything I could add would be redundant.

Well said Glitterata.
 

AmberWaves

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
3,672
I also disagree with the person who said "wait two months and then see if she moves out". Why? You going to "call her bluff"? That''s not fair. I''m sure that your grilfriend has come to the end of her rope, the fact that you never realy spelled out a legal commitment to her, and just assumed she knew what you meant made her very wary of your intentions. You''ve said yourself that she has trust issues, whether they be with you or other things, this alone should tell you that she needs to be explicitly told what you want in the future, even if it isn''t right now. The poor girl had probably come to the end of her timeline, and figured that she''d give you a chance to explain to her what your plans are. She may have been thinking that if you''re planning on renting the cow with the option to buy, and not to just buy the cow, she may have thought she should cut her losses and find someone who was willing to commit, and not keep her hanging.

I think the surprise proposal is lovely- to an extent. Many posters on PS have said any couple that has talked about marriage would eventually know that the proposal is coming at some point. I think the problem was all on assuming. You assumed she knew what you meant, and she assumed you were just dragging your feet. This could all have been avoided if you had spelled out your intentions. It''s funny, I thought guys were the ones who needed to be told bluntly. At least my guy is. I''ve also got to add, I picked out my own ring, my own stone. And I know the exact date my BF is proposing (next week), but it will still be a surprise, and it will still be a story to tell. Don''t let the fact that you want to surprise her damage your relationship with her. What matters more? A girlfriend who is comfortable in your relationship with no worries, or a surprise? It''s a big risk to take just to get a surprise out of her. Don''t punish her because she wants to be sure things are headed where she hopes they are.
 

samkongado

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
66
First off, I NEVER said I was mad at her. I'm not, and like I said, I completely understand why she did what she did. So don't think I don't understand where she's coming from because I do. I know that 5 years is a long time (although we met at 21 so it's not like we're super old). And yeah I was probably dragging my feet more than I should have. Clearly I'm not the first guy to do so. It must be an inborn trait that is shared by many guys- just like women have funny traits that guys can never understand.

A year ago I wasn't ready to propose. Then we moved to a completely new city, and so I wanted to get adjusted to that first. Then I started thinking about proposing maybe like 4 months ago or so. And as I said, I tried to make it as clear as I could to her that I wanted to spend my life with her. I was not jerking her around. I was just trying to give her the best propsal I could. I was trying to give her the fantasy proposal that girls dream about (or so us guys think), and truthfully reading the stories on this messageboard probably added to that. I've read about some amazing proposals and wanted to do something special like that myself.

So once again to recap: I was not jerking her around and messing with her head. I loved her and thought that reassuring her by telling her I wanted to spend my life with her would settle her enough to give me time to plan a great proposal. Evidently it didn't. I'm not mad, just a little sad.
 

stermag

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
433
Sam,

You aren''t a bad guy. You meant/mean well, and your heart is in the right place.

Find it within yourself to put what happened behind you and focus on the fact that you are with a woman to whom you are now ready to commit. There''s no real need to analyze the past in efforts to figure out why you weren''t ready a year or two ago. You don''t really have to justify it to us.

Focus on creating the proposal as you intended to do it prior to your argument. Instead of feeling depressed that the surprise has been ruined, work that much harder to compensate for the fact, and create a very special moment for the two of you. Your options are virtually limitless...

Besides, if you think she won''t be shocked now... you''re in for a surprise as well. I knew almost exactly when my boyfriend would propose to me, but the minute it actually starts happening your brain forgets everything it knows. Believe me.

Congratulations and best of luck!

M
 

blodthecat

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
805
Hi Sam,

Life does this to us from time-to-time. Things don''t always go to plan.

It''s not about what has happened, but how we recover from the situation is what matters the most.

I think the MOST important thing for your lass is that she wants the ring on her finger, which confirms you commitment to each other.

Go for it!

Blod
 

vizsla

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,015
AND SOON!

SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!

this "guy time" crap is just that.. crap... no one ever said that you had to get married 6 months after you got engaged... but if being engaged was very important to her before you moved in together and you waited a YEAR.. then shame on you... that''s very inconsiderate of her feelings, regardless of what you were planning.... or when you were "ready"
 

sumbride

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
3,867
If my BF proposed to me but had NEVER mentioned "the m word" before, I would be a little shocked... not surprised, but shocked. I get what you mean about wanting to surprise her, but it''s her future too and she should have some say in it. I resent the idea that it is up to the man to decide the path and timeline for life... it should be a mutual decision. I totally get why she was frustrated and why she blew up about it.

My BF and I moved in together last summer, but before we did that we talked about what it meant and why we were doing it. Neither of us wanted to do it unless we knew we were on the same path... marriage in the future. We knew that we weren''t ready for engagement yet, but that we would be eventually. Moving in together has only confirmed that for us. He uses "the m word" all the time, and has expressed that he wants the proposal itself to be a surprise. The key distinction here is that, yes, I know there will be a proposal... I just don''t know when, where, or how. That is ok with me. If there weren''t going to be one at all, I would have ended it as soon as I figured that out... because we wanted different things. Since I know he does want to spend his life with me, and has told me as such, I''m content to wait for his "perfect proposal".

I see a lot of things in your email that would have made me freak out too... everyone has addressed those so I''m just adding my feelings here. Go ahead and do it!
 

luthergirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Messages
100
It seems to me that in this case what you were asking for opinions on was the surprise aspect of the situation. I think that even though you told her you were planning a proposal and have been ring shopping that if you do it next week or the week after (as you said you had originally wanted to) that she would be very surprised! She knows you are looking and thinking about it, but to do it that soon I think would still take her off guard, and I mean that in a positive way. If my guy told me he was looking/thinking about proposing, I would still think it was at least a month and probably more likely a few months away.
 

firebirdgold

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
2,216
Wanting things spelled out is not a trust issue. If my bf had been saying the same thing without using the M word, I''d be getting a bit freaked at this point too. And it''s only been a year and a half for us!

You are not solely at fault here. She should have told you that she needed a more defined reassurance before it got to the point of an ultimatum. And you could have reacted a great deal worse than just being disappointed. So kudos on that. (some guys see ultimatums as an irresistible red cape). I know it''s very upsetting to have a picture in your head of how things will go and to have that totally derailed. Of course you felt like the wind had been taken out of your sails!

The simple fact is that women and men are alien to each other. No matter how good the communication in a relationship is, our brains do not work in 100% the same way. You can not count on the fact that what she hears you saying is what you hear yourself saying. This is never more obvious then when women and men try to discuss marriage and engagement.
I''ve come smack up against this myself when I''ve had the discussion with my bf about getting engaged. I was fustrated at the total visible lack of progress and starting to think he had been just saying things without really meaning them or had changed his mind. And he was just baffled at my impatience and couldn''t understand the rush. After all he was thinking about it all the time and slowly saving money for the ring, so of course there was progress. And it''s not like we could get married before 1/07 and a bunch of other good reasons. When I finally heard what he had been thinking, I felt so much better. But this was after months of feeling wretched, fustrated, and insecure. (quite frankly I''m still upset about being miserable for so long even if it was partly my fault for not being more clear and direct in my communication).

Why exactly is it that men complain women expect them to be telapathic? Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

And as had been said many times by the LIW in the past. Unless you send her a memo with the time, date, place, schedule of events, pictures of the ring, and an outline of what you''re going to say... IT''S STILL GOING TO BE A ROMANTIC SURPRISE!!

If you want to torture her just a little, take her out to a nice dinner or a romantic sunset walk and not propose. She''ll get worked up hoping this is the night and will get a bit dissapointed when it''s not. Then it''ll be a surprise the next day or later that evening when you propose. Yes, it''s a little cruel, don''t shoot me ladies!
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,534
Sam,
I like what someone said about you might not get the dream proposal/suprise, but you will get your dream wife & that lasts a lot longer. Look - this didn''t just dissapoint you, I''m sure it did her too, knowing that you were hoping for a suprise. She does know you.

This is part of life. We''re never most upset about what happens, but when what we don''t expect to happen happens. Time to reshape your expectations. There could be A LOT of joy and excitement and mutual sharing and a heady, magical ride involved in picking the stone and ring TOGETHER. Instead of one big "pow" moment .. you could savor the blissful look on her face as she oogles all the sparklies at stores ... actually see the moment of AHA when she finds the one she''s always dreamed of ... give her something that you choose together as a symbol of your wonderful relationship.

Plenty of fun -n- games can happen after the ring is ready. And you can still have your proposal moment - that can still be very moving/emotional/precious.

It might not be what you''ve "always dreamed of". It could be EVEN BETTER. If you open your eyes and grab hold of what you really always had.

Best,
Deco
 

anchor31

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
7,074
Date: 3/24/2006 12:23:15 PM
Author: samkongado
So once again to recap: I was not jerking her around and messing with her head. I loved her and thought that reassuring her by telling her I wanted to spend my life with her would settle her enough to give me time to plan a great proposal. Evidently it didn''t. I''m not mad, just a little sad.
A lot of men want to spend the rest of their lives with a woman they love but never marry her... What your girlfriend wanted to know is that you intended on respecting her wishes and marrying her, but you never answered her. I don''t think you should have expected her to move in with you before being engaged when she wasn''t comfortable with it (and I can undertand her, I wouldn''t be either) and then not get angry after a year because all she could ever get out of you was that you wanted to spend your life with her, which doesn''t mean you want to marry her at all... Good for her for standing her ground! She obviously is a strong woman who goes for what she wants, and if you love her and truly want to marry her, get a move on, take her somewhere romantic, and propose.

Telling her you do intend to marry her wouldn''t have ruined the surprise, far from it. My boyfriend told me this a little over a year ago, and I don''t think he''s going to propose in another couple of months at least. He told me because I asked; I was looking for a man who had the same views and values than I have concerning marriage and I wanted to make sure that he did. Talking about marriage isn''t proposing, and I strongly believe it''s a decision that should be taken by two people and discussed before the proposal. It doesn''t take the magic away... In fact it makes it even more special, because then you know that you are entering this new step in your life as a shared, thought through decision.

A few months ago my boyfriend started giving me mixed signals about proposing, talking as though he''d do it tomorrow and then as if he wouldn''t do it for another six years. It drove me insane so one day I asked him about his intentions. I know he''s going to propose in 2006, but I don''t know where, when or how. I''d say that''s surprise enough!! I''m also picking out my own ring because that''s something I''ve always wanted to do. I told him, and he respects that. The "dream surprise completely unexpected proposal every girl dreams of" is a bit of a myth. Not every girl has the same dream proposal. I wouldn''t have wanted my boyfriend to propose if we hadn''t discussed the subject before, and as I said, choosing my ring was always very important for me.

My boyfriend and I might not get the penultimate fantasy proposal we see in movies, but it is our dream proposal, and we''re so happy and excited! He talks about it all the time now and tells everyone!! It''s a wonderful time in our relationship, really. And I still get to wait not so patiently, and wonder how/where/when he''s going to do it!

I must add that in all honesty, I personally believe you should have respected her wishes in the first place, and if you weren''t ready to propose last year, then you shouldn''t have asked her to move in with you.
 

monarch64

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
18,394
SAM
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I just wanted to say that my husband and I went through the same thing as you...although I only knew him for 9 months before we were engaged, not five years, lol! I had moved to Chicago to be with him, he moved in with me, and a few months later we got into an argument over something and I told him I would be moving back to Indy when our lease expired in a couple months. He confessed to having been shopping for a ring, and two weeks later he had purchased one and proposed to me the very same night. Yes, I knew it was coming, but I didn''t know when or how. The actual proposal was not a surprise, but everything leading up to it that night was, and it was wonderful, romantic, and exciting--I was swept off my feet, believe me. Your girlfriend will be happy too, don''t worry. This is just one of those little bumps in the road. Congrats on your upcoming engagement!
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Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/24/2006 1:01:44 PM
Author: decodelighted
Sam,
I like what someone said about you might not get the dream proposal/suprise, but you will get your dream wife & that lasts a lot longer. Look - this didn''t just dissapoint you, I''m sure it did her too, knowing that you were hoping for a suprise. She does know you.

This is part of life. We''re never most upset about what happens, but when what we don''t expect to happen happens. Time to reshape your expectations. There could be A LOT of joy and excitement and mutual sharing and a heady, magical ride involved in picking the stone and ring TOGETHER. Instead of one big ''pow'' moment .. you could savor the blissful look on her face as she oogles all the sparklies at stores ... actually see the moment of AHA when she finds the one she''s always dreamed of ... give her something that you choose together as a symbol of your wonderful relationship.

Plenty of fun -n- games can happen after the ring is ready. And you can still have your proposal moment - that can still be very moving/emotional/precious.

It might not be what you''ve ''always dreamed of''. It could be EVEN BETTER. If you open your eyes and grab hold of what you really always had.

Best,
Deco

Great post Deco!
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SoonIHope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
2,152
One distinction I think that you are not making that you need to realize makes a BIG difference in her head is that you committed to "spending the rest of your life together" but NOT to "marriage." I think most women who had had repeated conversations of that sort with a 5-year boyfriend they were living with would assume that means you DO NOT WANT TO GET MARRIED because you''re happy living together. To me, the spending the rest of your life together and having children together is very nice, but not the whole picture. Mainly because if you really are sure you want to do that, then there''s really no reason NOT to get married, right? If you had not had long discussions about why you don''t believe in the principle of marriage, then my assumption would be that you just do not want to marry me, regardless of the ultimately empty promises you made, because if you really BELIEVED what you were promising me, there would be no reason not to get married. I know that''s kind of circular, so I hope you can follow my reasoning.
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I was with my fiance over 3 years before he proposed, living together for almost 2 of that, and I was starting to reach the end of my rope before I found out he was actively ring shopping. It really is a VERY VERY VERY UNPLEASANT & STRESSFUL THING to know that you want to commit to someone for a looong time and not have them reciprocate. I know you said spend the rest of your life together, but that really feels a bit empty after years of being together and nothing "official." A lot of girls dream of "spending the rest of their lives with" guys they''ve been on one date with, and have little "what would we name our children" conversations very early in a relationship. These are enjoyable theoretical discussions in the early to mid-stages of a relationship, but once you''re really into the phase in the relationship where you are ready to officially tell the world once and for all that you''re going to FOLLOW THROUGH with those theoretical plans, they don''t really cut it anymore. I totally understand where you are coming from (it''s almost word for word what my fiance told me pre-proposal), but I just don''t think guys realize how hard it is for women to want to make definite plans for their entire futures without any concrete evidence that the major player in that future wants to go along with it. As I''m sure you''ve noticed over the past few years of discussion with your girlfriend, it is a LOT easier to say "I want to spend the rest of my life with you" than to actually go out and buy the ring and go through with the proposal. You said yourself you felt that way a long time ago but still were not ready to propose. When that is the case, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY for the woman to tell if you ever are going to be ready to propose unless you tell her!! A lot of women are stuck in committed relationships because their boyfriends repeatedly tell them they want to be together forever...but never actually follow through on that. I hope this doesn''t come across as too critical, but I just hope that you are able to see a woman''s point of view a little better, regarding the difference between "the rest of my life" and "marriage".

That said, go give her the PERFECT proposal!!! There will still be HUGE surprise as to exactly when and where it occurs, but as Amber said, even if you know that it is STILL the most amazing experience of your life! I also resent the whole idea that it has to be a surprise because I personally want to be able to take part in a mutual decision if it involves the entire rest of my life!! I''m not willing to sit around and wait with no clues just in case some guy feels like proposing to me, you know? I want to have an explicit "yes we intend to marry each other" conversation, discuss exactly what that means, and then the proposal is all that much better when it does happen, because we already know that we really ARE the people we want to spend the rest of our lives with, and there''s no confusion.

Good luck, and please keep us updated!!!
 

applechick

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
9
poor guy - let''s not jump all over him.

i think we are all in agreement that 1) he means well 2) we would all have freaked out if we were his girlfriend as well and 3) that people often get so caught up in the proposal they forget that the proposal is NOT the point, and neither is the ring or the wedding. the point is, the commitment to one another.

so, good luck, don''t wait to propose, find a way to make it a surprise (i agree that doing it sooner is better - don''t string her along anymore, and i doubt she expects it in the next 2 weeks). and make it nice and romantic. good luck and congrats.
 

Evie75

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
150
Date: 3/24/2006 11:31:10 AM
Author: glitterata
I think this is totally your fault. Five years is a long time. You knew she was uncomfortable living with you before being engaged. You were giving her mixed messages--you told her you weren''t ready to get engaged, but you wanted her to have your children. What does that mean to a woman? That you want her to have children with you out of wedlock? That you are trying to make her shut up and stop bugging you, but you don''t really intend to go through with marrying her? That you''re jerking her around?

You put your need to totally surprise her above her need to know your intentions for the future and be in a relationship with a status that didn''t make her miserable. Why is surprising her so important that it was worth making her miserable for months or years, so much so that she considered leaving you?

I think this fight is about control. You needed to be the one in control of whether you get married, when, and even when and whether she knows it''s going to happen. In order to be in control yourself, you let her feel like she had no say in her own life.

Eventually she decided to take control and change the situation she hated. She told you if you didn''t propose in a month, she would move out. Good for her. She took steps to get out of a situation she could no longer live with.

And you''re mad at her about the ruined surprise? You should be mad at yourself about it. If you had even taken a small step to make her less miserable, such as telling her you were shopping for a ring or proposing sooner, you could have had your precious surprise without torturing her to the point that she was considering leaving you.
EEESH!! that was a little harsh.
 

Evie75

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
150
Date: 3/24/2006 12:23:15 PM
Author: samkongado
First off, I NEVER said I was mad at her. I''m not, and like I said, I completely understand why she did what she did. So don''t think I don''t understand where she''s coming from because I do. I know that 5 years is a long time (although we met at 21 so it''s not like we''re super old). And yeah I was probably dragging my feet more than I should have. Clearly I''m not the first guy to do so. It must be an inborn trait that is shared by many guys- just like women have funny traits that guys can never understand.

A year ago I wasn''t ready to propose. Then we moved to a completely new city, and so I wanted to get adjusted to that first. Then I started thinking about proposing maybe like 4 months ago or so. And as I said, I tried to make it as clear as I could to her that I wanted to spend my life with her. I was not jerking her around. I was just trying to give her the best propsal I could. I was trying to give her the fantasy proposal that girls dream about (or so us guys think), and truthfully reading the stories on this messageboard probably added to that. I''ve read about some amazing proposals and wanted to do something special like that myself.

So once again to recap: I was not jerking her around and messing with her head. I loved her and thought that reassuring her by telling her I wanted to spend my life with her would settle her enough to give me time to plan a great proposal. Evidently it didn''t. I''m not mad, just a little sad.
I''m with you!!! I dont think you did anything wrong.... You just had a little communication problem. Its not like you never said you loved her or wanted to be with her... you probably could have said dont worry im planning on marrying you we''ll be enaged soon to give her reassurance. But you goofed....
 
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