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Liquiddazi

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This has been a subject of great interest in my personal life and I was wondering if I could get you guys input on the subject.

What considers engagement? Does there have to be a ring? Does someone have to ask the other? Or is it just assumed?

My boyfriend and I are very traditional when it comes to this and I feel I want to be treasured enough to get the whole proposal (no ring is necessary, if the guy doesn''t have the money for it). However a couple friend of ours doesn''t agree with this. There was no question, there was no ring (yet). They discussed it and decided that they would tell people that they were engaged after dating for a mere 6 months.

But now, I would like other people''s opinions and input! Please feel free to share, I''m actually very open and like to hear different perspectives!
 

sumbride

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I think it''s up to the couple.

My FI and I didn''t consider ourselves engaged until he asked "will you marry me?" and I said "yes." We''d been talking about marriage for a long time and we knew we were going to get married, but we still didn''t consider ourselves engaged, though sometimes he would say "but we''re getting married" when he wanted me to do something I didn''t want to do and I''d call foul on that! My mom considered us engaged when we moved in together because we told her it was heading toward marriage. She didn''t want us to live together without that intention, and we didn''t either, but we weren''t engaged in our mind yet. My FI proposed without the ring at my request so that wasn''t the big "we''re engaged" symbol to us... for us it was the question and answer.
 

Pandora II

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For my family, you are enaged when he has asked "will you marry me" in a proposal way. (ie not just kidding around)
You ring all the relations to tell them, and then go ring shopping together.

All my friends and family have had rings AFTER the proposal - I was really surprised how many people here were proposed to with the ring.
 

ephemery1

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I definitely think it depends on the couple, the age, AND the location... different countries seem to have slightly different approaches to these things. Here in the northeast US, amongst our 20-something friends and family, I don't personally know anyone who was proposed to without a ring. Often the ring-shopping was done together beforehand, but the engagement wasn't considered "official" until the ring was on her finger. And I definitely don't know anyone in our age bracket who got engaged without having made a mutual decision about it beforehand... in other words, no totally "surprise" proposals. For us, marriage, kids, money, and everything else was discussed at-length for years before we became technically engaged. We'd even booked our reception site months before the actual proposal. As for telling people, most people close to us already knew it would be happening eventually... but I never referred to him as my fiance until I had that ring on my finger.
 

Maria D

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I also think it depends on the couple. I considered my husband and I to be engaged when we decided to get married and set the date. Not only was there no ring, there was no "proposal!" We just decided together, picked a date, and got the ring a month later. (We were married two months after that.)

Pretty much the rest of the world needs to see that ring though, LOL. I needed to get our wedding invitations done soon after we set the date since it was only 3 months away. The woman I dealt with actually tried to talk me out of it. She said, "why don''t you make him get you a ring first?" too funny

Then there''s the other side to that, engagement ring with no date in sight. Ever met one of those couples who get engaged; dad''s blessing, ring, proposal and all; but the wedding date is some far off in the future nebulous time that never seems to come? I had a cousin who did that. She wore that ring off and on for at least six years (they broke up a lot) before finally calling it quits!
 

Liquiddazi

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Maria:
I totally understand both sides. My brother and his now wife got engaged, but didn''t pick out a date for a year. However, a lot of that had to do with her age at the time. She was 19.

My boyfriend and I have definitely discussed it. We said from the get go, if this wasn''t going to end in marriage, to break it off as soon as possible. Him and I even have a possible date picked out and what we want our wedding to be like; however, we don''t plan on getting engaged until next spring and the wedding will be 6 months later, maybe 5. But I would never refer to him as my finance. I want a question at least, I don''t want it to be assumed, even though we have talked about it.

But with this couple, something doesn''t seem right about it. It was like one day they were boyfriend and girlfriend and the next they were telling everyone they were engaged, literally. They could talk about getting married alot, but everything out in public is the girl counterpart induced, except for him calling her his financee out in public.

I''m all for short relationships, if it is right, but something just isn''t adding up with this couple. I know of several people that got married with in a year of beginning to date and they are still married 30 years later. I also know someone that dated about 10 months, broke up for one to two, and got engaged the night they got back together. I didn''t question anything about that relationship and they got married this past summer, after being engaged for six months.


Thanks everyone for your input. I really appreciate it!
 

RoseAngel04

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I''m with aquarius....I didn''t consider myself *engaged* until my fiance asked me to marry him and presented me a ring.
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I''ve never gotten the couples who are "engaged" but don''t plan the wedding or even really think/talk about it. Every day since my fiance proposed we have at least in some way mentioned wedding plans. But that''s just us....
 

sunkist

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I think there needs to be a ring and a date set for there to be a real engagement. My boyfriend and I have talked about marriage, we''ve set a date, scheduled the ceremony and I''ve even started looking at wedding plans, yet I still don''t consider myself engaged. I won''t until he proposes and presents some kind of a token, in our case our ring!!
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And since our date is already set, we''re good to go there.

Engaged means that you are working together towards something, so that''s why I think there needs to be a date set. If there isn''t a date set, what are you working towards? I just think you need a goal set that you are working towards.
 

sumbride

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That''s an interesting point, Sunkist. I think my mom said something to that effect too. So do you think you have to set the date before the proposal or that you aren''t really engaged until the date is set even if he''s proposed with a ring? It didn''t take us long to set the date, but I did feel engaged beforehand. I know your situation was a little different, just wondering how that all falls in line.
 

anchor31

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Like a lot of things, it depends on the couple... I''d know since November that my fiancé was planning on proposing in 2006, we went ring shopping twice, picked out the ring together, I paid for the setting, we picked up the ring together, but I wasn''t his fiancée until he proposed and put the ring on my finger!

We don''t have an official date yet. We want a long engagement for all sorts of reasons and October 4th 2008 is our tentative date. I want to wait and see when would be the best time to have those awesome fall colours outside before setting the official date, which should be sometimes this fall. We''ve discussed a few wedding things: we have our ceremony venue and ideas for the reception venue, I have my veil and I''m pretty set on the colours and flowers.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 8/27/2006 10:18:23 PM
Author: RoseAngel04
I''m with aquarius....I didn''t consider myself *engaged* until my fiance asked me to marry him and presented me a ring.
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I''ve never gotten the couples who are ''engaged'' but don''t plan the wedding or even really think/talk about it. Every day since my fiance proposed we have at least in some way mentioned wedding plans. But that''s just us....
Hm...I think engaged means you have decided, formally, you want to marry one another. To me this means he (or she) asks, and the other agrees. Even if they don''t have the date yet, I don''t think it diminishes their decision to become man and wife. I don''t even think a ring is necessary. To me, the question and intent is enough.

We actually had the date set BEFORE we got engaged. We talked about getting married, and had to set the date to see if his family could make it from Oz. But I didn''t consider myself officially engaged until he formally asked (which he did not when we talked dates). It sounds stupid and anticlimactic but it worked for us, and it didn''t take away from the moment he did ask me formally...and yes, he did it with a ring.
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robbie3982

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I definitely don''t think the date is necessary to be officially engaged. FI and I got engaged a bit over 2 weeks ago, but are still working on the date. We don''t feel that the date is as important as where we will be married and have the reception. So, we''re leaving ourselves open to a season as we look for places.
 

RoseAngel04

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Date: 8/28/2006 4:43:03 PM
Author: robbie3982
I definitely don''t think the date is necessary to be officially engaged. FI and I got engaged a bit over 2 weeks ago, but are still working on the date. We don''t feel that the date is as important as where we will be married and have the reception. So, we''re leaving ourselves open to a season as we look for places.
I agree with Robbie as well. FI and I don''t have a SET date for our wedding, but it''s def in the works. We have to look at venues for the ceremony/reception and see if the date(s) we would like to get married on are available. We know that we will be married before 2008. We are hoping for August 2007, but it will all depend on the venue. So...even though we don''t have a date set in stone, we are still in every aspect engaged.
 

sumbride

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We had a lot of thinking to do to set the date... here''s how we did it.

1) decide on season

2) decide on venue - for us it was hard because we had to decide which state as well!

3) get important "NO" dates for important people - FI''s brother is a diplomat, we had to deal with his meeting schedule, work around my neice''s "Rodeo Queen" pageant, and the industry meetings for my parents'' company. No sense making it hard for those we love if we can work around it.

4) think about events going on in the area and try not to conflict - the 4 states fair is in our area 2 weeks before our event. We wanted to make sure they were out of town so hotels would be easy.

5) Compromise! I never wanted to get married during football season but I also didn''t want to wait any longer, so I compromised. It means there will be anniversaries spent in front of the tv in our future, but I''m thinking of instituting a 1/2 anniversary!

With all the work we did, we still forgot to check our own work schedules... FI is an accountant and our wedding is in the middle of the 3rd quarter close. OOPS. His boss is cool with it, luckily!
 

sunkist

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Date: 8/27/2006 11:35:18 PM
Author: sumbride
That''s an interesting point, Sunkist. I think my mom said something to that effect too. So do you think you have to set the date before the proposal or that you aren''t really engaged until the date is set even if he''s proposed with a ring? It didn''t take us long to set the date, but I did feel engaged beforehand. I know your situation was a little different, just wondering how that all falls in line.

Hi Sumbride! No, I''m not saying that without a date set I''d refuse to acknowledge anyone''s engagement
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I just think that when people don''t set a date for months or even years it''s dragging on and on and isn''t really "working towards that goal." I totally understand that after a proposal it takes some time to figure out venues and people''s schedules and stuff. Like Robbie said, she''s been engaged for 2 weeks and still is trying to figure it out. But I''m sure their working it out and not putting off that decision for a year. I just think setting the date is an important step in finalizing the engagement
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robbie3982

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Date: 8/28/2006 7:39:04 PM
Author: sunkist

Hi Sumbride! No, I''m not saying that without a date set I''d refuse to acknowledge anyone''s engagement
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I just think that when people don''t set a date for months or even years it''s dragging on and on and isn''t really ''working towards that goal.'' I totally understand that after a proposal it takes some time to figure out venues and people''s schedules and stuff. Like Robbie said, she''s been engaged for 2 weeks and still is trying to figure it out. But I''m sure their working it out and not putting off that decision for a year. I just think setting the date is an important step in finalizing the engagement
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I can''t imagine putting off setting a date for that long! I hope to be married in a little over a year!
 

Larissa

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Engagement to me is when two people agree to marry. No ring, date, or question is necessary, just the agreement. A ring is a material object that isn''t essential for the relationship to continue or progress. You can have a marriage without a ring as well.

No one asked any questions and no rings were given at the time that we made the decision to get married. We made a decision together. The together part was very appropiate for us since the asking/answering or leaving the decision to one person puts the relationship on unequal terms.

We both got rings about 3-4 months into the engagement and wore/wear them on our right ring fingers. My parents didn''t consider us engaged until I got a ring which seems rather old fashioned and made me sad.

We joke that we offically became engaged 13 months after we got rings when the government approved our visa. Our engagement, as well as our relationship, would have ended without the visa.
 

sumbride

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Date: 8/28/2006 7:39:04 PM
Author: sunkist

Date: 8/27/2006 11:35:18 PM
Author: sumbride
That''s an interesting point, Sunkist. I think my mom said something to that effect too. So do you think you have to set the date before the proposal or that you aren''t really engaged until the date is set even if he''s proposed with a ring? It didn''t take us long to set the date, but I did feel engaged beforehand. I know your situation was a little different, just wondering how that all falls in line.

Hi Sumbride! No, I''m not saying that without a date set I''d refuse to acknowledge anyone''s engagement
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I just think that when people don''t set a date for months or even years it''s dragging on and on and isn''t really ''working towards that goal.'' I totally understand that after a proposal it takes some time to figure out venues and people''s schedules and stuff. Like Robbie said, she''s been engaged for 2 weeks and still is trying to figure it out. But I''m sure their working it out and not putting off that decision for a year. I just think setting the date is an important step in finalizing the engagement
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That makes sense. I have a friend who got engaged a year ago and was talking about her wedding for a couple of weeks and then stopped talking about it. I asked her why and she said they had a couple of things they needed to figure out. The things she mentioned could have been solved with the yellow pages, but I knew something else must be up. She stopped wearing her ring, claiming that since it was her mother''s it didn''t feel like an e-ring to her (hello! reset!). When we asked her about the date she said she wasn''t ready to set it... they broke up a couple months ago.

So yeah, I can see that if you''re hesitant to set a date, maybe that means something else is going on. It would be entirely different with circumstances like finishing up school, moving, etc... that makes sense, but anything that can be solved using a phone book is a whole other issue!
 

Liquiddazi

Shiny_Rock
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I would like to know why someone would tell people you are engaged, when you want to be ask and he hasn''t, there is no ring and you want one, and only a possible date with no true wedding plans.

Would any of you do that? To me it is just illogically. It is better to wait and love the moment. It is like you are not making the whole engagement and wedding process as special and exciting as it should be. To me, it is feels like it would be rushing something that shouldn''t be rushed.

Maybe Larissa, you can explain this to me, since you have a similiar situation happening to you.

Thank you everyone for the opinions and input. I greatly appreciate it!
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Larissa

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Date: 8/29/2006 11:12:22 AM
Author: Liquiddazi
I would like to know why someone would tell people you are engaged, when you want to be ask and he hasn''t, there is no ring and you want one, and only a possible date with no true wedding plans.


Would any of you do that? To me it is just illogically. It is better to wait and love the moment. It is like you are not making the whole engagement and wedding process as special and exciting as it should be. To me, it is feels like it would be rushing something that shouldn''t be rushed.


Maybe Larissa, you can explain this to me, since you have a similiar situation happening to you.


Thank you everyone for the opinions and input. I greatly appreciate it!
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I don''t think I can explain that to you, as that wasn''t my situation. I didn''t want to be asked. As I explained above, to me, not making the decision TOGETHER puts the people in the relationship on unequal footing.

I also didn''t care if there was a ring. We decided we both wanted rings and bought them later.

I don''t have at least 2 of the 3 things you are asking me to explain.

Actually, make that all 3 things. We didn''t have a date...that required a visa. We couldn''t issue ourselves a visa and had to wait on the government issuing said visa before setting a date.

If you would like me to attempt to explain something else, I''d be more than happy to. But I think you are misunderstanding why we *chose* our situation of no asking, no rings, and no date.
 

Liquiddazi

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Larissa:

Thanks! I understand your situation totally and it makes sense. I guess, the above situation I''m talking about just confuses me. Thank you again!
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galeteia

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Actually, I''m also one of those people who will become officially engaged once the visa comes through. Otherwise, we probably would have gotten engaged by mutual decision and then ring shopped together, because I like the idea of wearing something that announces our status. As it is, he''ll probably go through the formality of proposing to me simply because we''ve had all other semblence of a ''normal'' relationship progression tossed out the window. Of course, we''ll be sprinting up the courthouse steps when he does it...

Larissa, if you don''t mind me asking, what visa did you apply for? I''ve heard all sorts of timelines and yours (13 months) is one I''d like to hear about.
 

bobacha

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In my case, we''ve known for a while that we''re heading towards marriage. There''s no question there. Our friends knew. Our parents knew. We''ve been together for 6.5 yrs. But because of circumstances (long distance, my job, his starting grad school, etc), it just took this long. We also had set to get married in 2007, although no date yet.

2-3 months before I got the ring, one of my close friends actually told me that I should just start referring to him as my fiance just so that people know that we''re going that away. The title "long distance boyfriend" just make it seems like it''s not a serious relationship. Funny that sometimes when people find out that we''d been together so long, it doesn''t make it sound better. They started to ask if my bf had a commitment issue or .. well I''m sure all LIWs here have been there.. pressure pressure everywhere..

however if I go and tell people that we''re engaged, I didn''t want to explain why there''s no ring, etc... so I didn''t .. but the more I think about this, I agree no ring is necessary and we could have told people that we were engaged since last year ..

But luckily I didn''t have to wait too long since my friend brought this subject up. hehehe
Once I wore the ring, people started noticing and asked directly ... and I always replied with a big grin
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YES I''m engaged
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I''m not sure whether our parents considered us engaged yet though because his mom hasn''t officially asked my parents yet (like a bethrothal? chinese custom). They have set a date for this to happen though, it''s coming soon.
 

Larissa

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 8/29/2006 1:46:51 PM
Author: Liquiddazi
Larissa:


Thanks! I understand your situation totally and it makes sense. I guess, the above situation I'm talking about just confuses me. Thank you again!
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Oh, okay. This is bound to be long and sure to insult someone. It's not meant to insult, but that seems to be the nature of the beast on these boards!

I've never been one to blindly follow traditions. I need to research and find out why every.little.thing is done the way that it is. It seems, from what I can tell, that birth, marriage, and death are the events where the phrase "that's just the way it's done" is used most often. And I only get to make all the choices for one of those three events.

Every "tradition" that a) didn't mean anything to us and b) we found didn't fit our lifestyle, was thrown out. It seems very sexist and old fashioned to me for the woman to wait for a proposal. Every important decision in our joint lives has been made together, after much discussion. Why take the most important decision in your life and give one party all the power as to how and when it happens?

It also seems over the top for the guy to get down on one knee...as though begging. And why one knee? Then you can't hug or kiss easily because there is such a difference in positions.

We also threw out over half of the wedding traditions. We simply didn't agree with them. No giving away, no walking down the aisle to meet him. Which seems like a parade of the bride. For us, it made more sense to go together as we were starting our lives together. No flower child or ring bearer. No bridal party. It was just as special as any other wedding...just different. Low on environmental costs (cut flowers aren't good of the environment) and traditions that didn't mean anything to us. I believe I also stood on the wrong side of the groom. Which really sucks, ya know, in case he should need to kidnap me to force me to marry him and need his sword hand free to fight off anyone who attempted to challenge him.

I don't think that it takes the excitment out of the process or makes it any less special. The process definately wasn't rushed. We dated 1.5 years before engagement and got married on our 3 year anniversary. More important than how long between dating, engagement, and marriage, we discussed marriage and our expectations for how our relationship would do, including the splitting of the chores, a lot. I personally wouldn't marry a person who didn't know me well enough to know what I wanted. I didn't want to be asked. To me, that seems like a princess hanging up in the tower who can't care for herself.

What works for some doesn't work for all. Different strokes for different folks.

I'd say, in general, if a couple considers themselves engaged, they're engaged. With ring, without ring, with date, without date, with formal question, or with mutual agreement.

I understand where you're coming from though. It's hard to understand when someone does something backwards according to you. Sometimes you just have to go with it. I had a friend who picked out and bought a ring in Oct. They started planning a May wedding. All the planning was done from church to reception food to invitations, but they didn't consider themselves engaged until he gave her the ring in Feb. To me, if you're planning the wedding, you're engaged. To them, not the case. They planned a wedding in 7 months but had a 3 month engagement.
 

firebirdgold

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
2,216
I''ve been quasi-engaged twice before, once with a ring and once without. Both times there was no date and no real attempt to set one. I once told my fi that I needed a date and a ring for our engagement to be official.
My beloved ''unofficially'' asked me to marry him 14 months before we ''officially'' became engaged after he proposed with a ring. In the end, while I love my ring it''s essentially a symbol and a reassurance. What really made me feel engaged was him promptly calling his family and telling me to call mine to tell them that we were engaged. He then emailed pretty much everyone he knew.
Finally having the freedom to talk about our wedding with him and plan the date felt great! It took us a couple of months to really be firm on our date, but we were in negotiations very soon after the proposal. (took a few days just to bask in the glow).

So for me an official engagement has 3 necessary components.
1) Either a proposal with a yes, or a mutually agreed firm decision to not only get married in the near future but to plan the wedding in the near future as well.
2) Promptly telling your loved ones, family, friends, and (in my case) total strangers.
3) Promptly and jointly embarking on your #1 can''t-do-anything-else-without-it wedding task. For us it was deciding on a date, but in some cases in could be choosing your location or your ceremony officiant.

The ring is just a seriously nice and very reassuring bonus. My sister never wanted one at all, but I feel so much more confident saying the word ''fiance'' or looking at bridal magazines and the like with a sparkly on my finger. Plus I''m going to look at my hand everyday for the rest of my life and remember how wonderful it felt when he proposed.
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just my humble .02
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