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Can he learn Romance?

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Erin

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I just read a very romantic proposal plan and thought - that''ll never be me in a million years.

My bf''s idea of romantic is buying me the perfume I asked for for Christmas. And the only reason I told him I wanted that perfume is because he said - if you don''t give me suggestions then I won''t know what to get you and you''ll end up with nothing. To top that off he bought it while we were shopping for our parents so I went in the store with him to show him which one it was. He said alright then let''s get it. I took the checkbook out of my purse and handed it to him. He gave me a nod like ''go ahead'' and I said Good God at least write out the check for it. And did he wrap it? No, I do all the gift wrapping so I stuffed it into a plain red bag with handles and added one sheet of tissue paper. Ta-Da!!!

Does this guy have any hope for learning the art of romance? Clueless I tell you, clueless.
 

AmberWaves

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Starset, that SUCKS! Wrapping your own presents? Makes me sad. Well, I''ve got to say, mine is pretty romantic, but I also read that sweet Carmel proposal, and I thought that that would NEVER happen to me. It''d better not be a proposal at Denny''s. But I think you can try to bring it up, and tell him how you feel. Beware, you can lead a horse to water but you can''t make him drink- maybe he just doesn''t think romance is his thing. Still, talk to him.
 

moon river

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Too bad there''s not a camp you can send a guy to.
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princessv

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Date: 1/18/2006 5:41:19 PM
Author: moon river
Too bad there''s not a camp you can send a guy to.
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Amen to that moon river!!

My fiance can be somewhat romantic but it seems lately he''s gotten super slack about it.
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I think the more comfortable they are with us the less romantic they are..it''s a direct correlation.
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snuga

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I''m so sorry to hear about this. I think you should talk to him about it. If you let him know how important a romantic proposal is to you, he should get the hint.
 

Rhapsody

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Men can be a little dense sometimes.

It took me 5 years to get my boyfriend to wrap presents for me. One year I refused to open it until he wrapped it and he got the message
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I found what worked best for me was to do for him what I wanted him to do for me. When you up the ante they''ll follow suit I guess. And you never know, even the most dense unromantic men know how much you look forward to a proposal and they''ll pull something out of their hats. Just that once
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pebbles

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My husband isn''t the romantic type either. It does suck when I hear of things my friends'' husbands have done for them. I''ve dropped hints time and time again but nothing works. Hey, at least your guy got you a present for christmas...
 

blueroses

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Starset, you know you and I are often in the same boat here as fellow longtime LIW with about the most clueless BFs in need of a serious boot in their collective ass.

Anyway, had to respond. I just don''t know. There have been times where my boy has been romantic--when I set out on the road on tour was 1 day before our 9th anniversary and he hid a stack of cards in my bag that I found that day--both break a leg and anniversary cards.

On the other hand, I haven''t even POSTED about what I got for Christmas b/c it was a big painful deal. Some of the longer-term LIW and grads will remember how I posted about getting the T&Co Sterling Silver heart on the black silk cord back on my 30th b-day (2004--the deadline HE set by which he was supposed to have proposed.) Anyway, nice necklace, didn''t quite fit the ring finger
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and that''s a whole other ball of wax.

So When I finished my tour on 12/22 I opened my Xmas gift from him early at home alone. And it''s a little Blue bag. My heart absolutely SANK. After all of this time, another freaking sterling silver necklace like we''re in our early twenties and just started dating?! So I opened it and it was virtually the SAME HEART he''d bought me 18 months prior for that infamous birthday. This one was on a silver chain instead of silk and was a hair smaller. I was so devastated--it seemed so thoughtless and indifferent and clueless. Plus, I''ve been very clear that I don''t want any more jewelry from him until THE jewelry b/c enough is enough. I have at least 4 sterling T&Co necklaces already from him (and I don''t want to sound like a brat, but after all of my time on PS he''s heard my T&Co rants PLUS it just seems an unseemly gift when he basically already gave me the SAME THING on the day he should have proposed over a year and a half before
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I told him that a simple book or dvd that he''d picked out because it reminded him of me would have mean so much more. (And my hopes were up b/c he''d done so well on his own for my 31st--a 3-stone pearl (my birthstone) drop in WG from Blue Nile that he''d done all by himself.)

So anyway, I called him and explained that I didn''t want it and why. Meanwhile I''d spent so much time picking out his gifts, etc. Big discussion. He felt terrible--he actually said he had forgotten that he''d already bought the very similar one and then I showed him and he felt stupid. But it wasn''t just the gift, it was the symbolism and it broke my heart. (Needless to say, I think he was very surprised that I wouldn''t accept it. I said he could either take it back for store credit for himself or put it towards a simple "placeholder" ring for me and get engaged already. My late aunt who just died on January 5th was so tickled by the story of my giving it back and was very proud of me. (She asked if I''d thrown it at him and I said no, I *handed* it to him. I threw the REMOTE at him
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)

Anyway, we went our separate ways for our own families'' Chrimstases. I came home and had a mound of presents on my bed. Suffice to say, he did better. He got me this huge commemorative book about the whole evolution and development of "Wicked" (which we''ve seen 3x together, and i''ve seen 2 additional times), 2 chicklit novels that are right up my alley and he picked out himself and are JUST what I''d have picked out myself, the new chanel perfume "chance," a cute tunic-y top from the Gap. And I was touched and they were all lovely, thoughful gifts, and it''s nice. It doesn''t mitigate how much it hurts that he can''t get over all of his absurd "boy-soon" issues, but it attempted to make up for his SERIOUS gaffe on his first try.

But seriously, I had to GIVE BACK a gift for it to dawn on him that sometimes you have to try harder.

I KNOW I likely sound bratty, but I just had to chime in to offer my girl Starset a serious WORD. I think some guys are seriously romance-challenged or lacking, and I don''t know if they can learn or not.
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moon river

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Way to go throwing the remote. It''s bigger and could cause more pain!!
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roxy7

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Hey gals, I sympathize with you about the male lack of sensitivity stuff, especially you blueroses, you were so right to give the necklace back.

My boyfriend isn''t big on grand gestures - AT ALL. It''s just not him. But I''ve kind of learned to appreciate that he is my rock instead. Who wants a flower when you could have a rock to lean on, you know what I mean??
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This thread reminds me of something I read once about guys and the way they think (written by a male writer about male love versus female love):

"For men, true love is tacit. Mindless sexual hunger buys you quirky little gifts and leaves funny messages on your answering machine and can''t get over how beautiful you look in that dress. But, when love kicks in, the meaningless noise of sexual display stops and a silent, tranquil and deep spiritual calm settles upon us. Your partner lying on the sofa watching TV all evening and not having said more than a dozen sentences to you since last Tuesday is his way of demonstrating he loves you without doubts and is in it for the long haul. We ''just know'' that this is love and, frankly, are quite hurt if you''re so shallow and drawn to shiny objects that you don''t ''just know'' it too. An important corollary to this truth is that if your, formally long-torpid, partner starts once again buying flowers and giving you spontaneous, non sequitur hugs in the kitchen then it doesn''t indicate that his love for you has suddenly got a second wind. It indicates he''s sleeping with Debbie from Accounts. "

-- Mil Millington


OK, isn''t that hilarious?? Not necessarily true, but definitely funny and a good way to cheer ourselves up sometimes.
 

WTNLVR

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I agree with the above. Having been married for 16 years I totally agree. No grandiose gestures anymore. I buy my main gifts myself to make sure I get what I want and not some butt ugly jewelery
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I do insist he wrap them though. We have a steady deep love that has mellowed over the years but is no less intense. Young love is just different IMO. Once you go through the stages I think you''ll understand. Don''t worry, just accept him for who he is and all will be fine.
 

FireGoddess

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I always check in on these threads, particularly for blueroses and starset princess (you have no idea how much I''m pulling for you guys...I think I''ll be *almost* as excited as you guys are when the engagement finally happens) and I have to chime in with respect to the last few remarks...

True, we should respect who our SOs are, but romance does not always need to be grandiose gestures - even small gestures that reflect *genuine thought* are appreciated. It''s the clear lack of thought behind some of this crap that is the truly insulting part (ie. blueroses getting almost an identical gift as a year and a half ago)...or not getting a gift at all, or having to pick, pay for, and wrap your own...pulEEZ...I''m gonna smack some of these guys.
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DH has been busy all week and I''ve barely seen him in days...I woke up one morning and there were little hearts stuck on all the mirrors and glass surfaces in the condo. Everywhere. Didn''t cost much I''m sure, but let me know he''s thinking about me, and that gesture just tickled me pink. Romance is a vital part of a relationship - even in longer relationships. While the gestures need not be grandiose, they serve to show that HEY - I''m not taking you for granted.
 

SeattleSparkle

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I definitely agree that gestures don''t have to be grand, just thoughtful.

I''m a little embarrased to say that I made my boyfriend pick out his Christmas gift this year .... (he''s the worst person in the world to shop for ... he actually had to "secretly sell" the GameCube on ebay that he had just bought himself b/c I gave him a Playstation 2 ... he always buys what he wants when he wants it.)

BUT, in my defense, it was all in the packaging. I made him a "catalouge". I bought a photo album and put a bunch of ideas inside of it of things he might want to have. I then let him "pick" his option and we went to get it together.

Boys just have a different way of operating. My boyfriend was sooo excited that he got me a surprise. I was excited too, until I found out that it was just a toliet bowl cleaner thing (the kind you hang on the side of the bowl). Super unromantic right? Well, he gave it to me because he remembered that I had thrown out the one I recently bought because I didn''t like the smell. Atleast he was thinking about me and my needs.

It depends on the light you cast on it right?
 

Blue824

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I think you have to make it clear...I know I had to do that. It really upset me that sometimes he wouldn't take charge of things like planning an anniversary dinner or planning valentines day date. Now, I equally enjoy planning fun nights for him and we'd take turns planning, but when it was his turn, it would always end up being me doing all the work and I'd get really upset that he didn't seem to care enough to put in the effort...and don't get me started on some of the gifts he got me!!! Finally, one day I cracked, but I told him how much the little things meant to me, like picking up on things I comment on or planning nice evenings for us or surprises every now and then, and let me say, he's made loads of improvements! When he does those things, I always say how much I enjoyed it and give loads of compliments...which of course he loves to hear so its encouragement for the next time.

Blueroses, I'd have been pretty disappointed about the necklace as well. This year I finally had to tell my bf, ok, we're taking a T&Co break because I need to diversify! hehe. I'm glad he did pick out some gifts more intune to what you would've wanted originally, and hopefully he'll stay more on top of things for the future. I'm also sorry about your aunt, so my sympathies to you and your family. (ETA: I saw wicked for the first time this past weekend, wanted to see the Chicago cast before Ana Gasteyr left, sold out, so dragged bf to do the lottery with me, and there were appx 100 people there and our name got called! Loved it! I have a tendency to go into theater obsessions and that is my current one, cast recording is already memorized and is all i've been listening to
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Erin, unless it was a gift he was giving me asap, like let me treat you to your favorite perfume, I sooooo would've have stood for that, he has tried to buy me my gifts in front of me and I'm always like NO, come back on your own time! I'm sorry you had to wrap your own present though, I'd definitely talk to him and just mention how much you wish he'd do that and how much it would mean to you, even if it is only occasionally. They can surprise you, I just think they often take the lazy way out...gotta keep them on their toes!

As for the sweet proposals I read about...I often wonder what mine will be like. I'm ok with simple, but I obviously have my dream proposal and I've hinted at what it would be...but he says he has a plan...I'm so curious! He is always so critical of how his friends are proposing and there's me thinking that is soooo what you'd do, hehe.
 

nytemist

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Great thread-

Drop a hint for a guy to be romantic, you have to be as subtle as a brick to the head (my favorite line)

When BF was at my house last weekend, my sister asked me if we had anything special planned for our anniversary (early Feb) I said ''it would be nice, but probably not. He isn''t big on romance.'' I know he could hear me. That''s the only hint I will give this year. Considering last year I was blunt and said ''we should be doing something celebratory instead of you falling asleep on the couch at 7PM.'' He dozed off again so I went out on my own. He was really pissed when he woke up and saw I wasn''t in the house anymore. He called my cell to find out where I was. I was at our fav restaurant so he got in his car and came to meet me. It was kind of mean, but I told my waitress that I was celebrating my anniversary. She was puzzled at first since I was there alone. Then when he got there, she exclaims "oh, you decided to show up!" BF was not happy. I said ok, if there is a next anniversary, planning something to simply acknowledge our first date would be nice.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. I had some extra money so I decided to replace my perfume. I''ve been out of it since last summer, but because of school payments I couldn''t justify buying more, since it''s kind of expensive. He knew I had been out of it. Every time we were at the mall, passing by a Chanel counter, I would say I should get more of my perfume. He would say yeah, I like it. That was it. No ''here let me get it for you to be nice.'' BF happened to see the receipt for it last Sunday since I had been organizing credit card paperwork. He freaked out. "You went out and bought it? I was going to buy it for you. Go back and return it!" I said too late, I wanted it, I already bought it. If you ''were going to'' why didn''t you? He mumbles some excuse. I said I know how it works when you ''intend on doing something.'' He then asks, would that have been a romantic gesture? I said yep, I know you aren''t that oblivious. He says ''I guess a blew it.'' I didn''t answer.
Moral of the story- hinting doesn''t really work most of the time. You literally have to spell it out for them or they won''t figure it out. Or they learn by realizing the screwed up. Hey, sometimes it comes down to them thinking ''she''s upset I didn''t do something romantic, I won''t get any action. Got to step up next time.''

Boys, boys, boys.
 

Erin

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I found what worked best for me was to do for him what I wanted him to do for me. When you up the ante they''ll follow suit I guess.
I''ve tested that theory and it got an F.

He receives compliments all day on how he looks and I do quirky little things like send "I miss you" greeting cards to the house when I''m away for two days (I have to send it the day before I actually leave to make sure it gets there while I''m away), or buy him a new shirt when I go shopping and find nothing for myself, or fold all his laundry (t-shirts, socks, unders) and put it away - nevermind he''s fine with treating the laundry basket as a drawer - and don''t ask for a pat on the back. Sometimes I bring him a cup of coffee just the way he likes it first thing in the morning.

I think there''s a lot of things I do that could easily be reciprocated - things that don''t entail ''knowing how the female mind works.'' Just simple acts of kindness - not grandiose productions.

As a new year resolution I told him that we need to work on the R-factor (romance.) I said we should try to do one sweet thing, as insignificant as it may seem, one deliberate thing to show appreciation or to please the other, each day. About ten days had gone by and I asked him if he didn''t like my idea of one-a-day. He said I didn''t think you said one a day I thought you meant once a week. I had done one a day. My eyebrows raised like okay one a day is soooooo hard. So then what did you do last week? Without giving you the play by play of the whole conversation - ultimately he did nothing, and since that day has still not made an effort. So have I kept up on one-a-days? No.

What other ways can you teach if by example doesn''t work? Or am I supposed to just accept this is who he is - which sucks because I''m a LEO who looooooves compliments and presents and just generally being pampered.
 

moon river

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SeattleSparkle: You should tell him you don''t need the toilet cleaner since you''ve been cleaning the toliet with his toothbrush. That''ll get his attention.
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decodelighted

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Starset,
Can you remind us what you DO LIKE about your fella? Anything? I really don''t believe you can change people and if you''re not accepting of how he is and his treatment of you then you have some serious thinking to do. Sounds like almost any other guy alive in a three mile radius would be more appreciative and loving and cognisant of your existance ... but maybe that''s just the way you''re making it sound. I can''t help but notice your uber romantic/idealistic avatar (Wizard of Oz) your hopeful "breath taken away" slogan and the fanciful name "Starset Princess" (though I know it refers to your future engagement/wedding set rings) ... yet the situation you describe seems 180 degrees away from any of those things. Just my 2 cents.
 

GGLW

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Hey Starset, sounds like you are not the only one whose bf needs a kick in the butt. Most guys need some prodding to remember to keep doing romantic things after the inital wooing phase of the relationship. I got really upset on our last anniversary because my dear bf did not plan anything at all. I made plans for us to go out to a jazz festival and have a picnic at the park. I kept waiting for him to surprise me with a gift or a plan or a card or something!!! Nothing...so then I just broke down and explained that I was not OK with being the only one to do something to celebrate our anniversary. I told him how important it was for him to make me feel like it''s important to him and not just to me. I think he got the point because he went out the next day and bought me some beautiful flowers, wrote a mushy card and took me out to dinner without me saying anything else. But with Valentine''s day coming up, we''ll see if the point was made or if he will forget that he''s supposed to be extra-romantic on these holidays. I think he sometimes thinks that all the romantic things he does on other occasions on his own free will are enough, but doesn''t always get that girls can get all wrapped up in the sentimentality of the holidays and need extra at that time.
All I can suggest is to try and not put him on the defensive, but still explain that you need a little something extra and give him specifics on exactly what things he could do to make you feel better. I made my bf a list of things he could do, and though it''s maybe not the most romantic sounding thing, at least now he has a cheat-sheet if he is stumped for ideas.
 

blueroses

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Just to cut my girl starset some slack, I do know where she''s coming from DecoD, though I know how it must sound. (As I know how my own situation also surely sounds!!) She has said some wonderful things about her honey in the past, but I think the specific venting/fustration-nature of this thread lends itself to being an outlet JUSTthe negative.

And being in a somewhat paralell situation as theirs, I think it''s easy for frustration about the delayed engagement--whether by having the ring in possession for almost 2 years or constantly delaying HIS own deadlines, or whatever the indivual crisis--to get projected into everything else. I know that''s what I do when I talk about my bf and I totally have to watch myself. It''s dangerous b/c the flipside of LIW excitement is LIW anxiety and despair which then can bleed out into all facets of the relationship.
 

nytemist

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Starset- MY BF is a Leo and boy, does he loooove to be doted on. I could potentially wait on him hand and foot all weekend and then he''d pout when I stop. But I reminded him in the last couple of important talks we''ve had that it goes both ways. Sorry if I''m wrong, but it sounds like it has crossed from lack of romance to just plain lack of appreciation for you.

It''s sort of amusing with the whole learning to be romantic. I made the joke to a co-worker that my BF picked the worst month to go on that first date with me. Now he has to contend with our anniversary and v-day 12 days apart!
 

Erin

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Yeah - I guess rereading makes him out to be a real ass. These are the worst things he''s done. The most recent being it''s new years and this is what I want to change about our relationship so let''s start fresh. No matter how important I make it seem or how much on board he was during the conversation and in agreement that we have fallen off the R-wagon, he''s a zebra and those stripes ain''t changing.

It''s been 4.5 years and most guys, including mine, cannot help themselves but dote on you and compliment you in the beginning of the relationship. However, over time the hunt is over (whether or not he''s pulled the trigger is a different story altogether
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) They need to be reminded that they''re slacking off.

I think one of the problems is whether or not he makes an effort he still gets rewarded with my attention - and yet part of it is trying to show him what I want in return. But it wouldn''t be right to altogether stop. What kind of negative impact could that have on a relationship if neither did the extras
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I guess I''m not looking for the romantic proposal - I''m looking for answers to how do I make him make romance a priority again? OR should it really not be this hard?
 

blueroses

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decodelighted

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Date: 1/19/2006 1:00:32 PM
Author: nytemist
Starset- Sorry if I''m wrong, but it sounds like it has crossed from lack of romance to just plain lack of appreciation for you.

EXACTLY. I don''t mean it to be harsh, but that is what I''m "seeing" from Starset''s posts too. And I don''t think she should be satisfied with this treatment AND his lack of motivation/attempts/ACTION (beyond mumbling lip services) to do anything about it. I''ve rarely heard such negligent behavior cataloged about a boyfriend in public and it worries me. I think answering "Yes! He specifically can be changed" is irreseponsible and gives false hope.

Starset contends that he is "clueless" about romance. That''s the best possible reading of the situation -- that he''s just "clueless" ... sound much more like he''s "unconcerned" "checked out" even hostile. Who is "clueless?" really. This whole thread seems like a cry for help and a chance for those in possibly healthier relationships to weigh in - NO!!! DO NOT ACCEPT THIS! THIS IS NOT NORMAL!!! You do not have to go through life treated like this!

It may not be what she wants to hear, but I''m not going to pussyfoot around my genuine concern. It''s just one person''s opinion ...
 

ammayernyc

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I''ve been trying to emphasize to my bf how much I like actual presents and going out on actual dates... For my birthday last year he didn''t get me anything, he paid for my portion of a trip we had already planned. Very sweet, but I would have liked a rose better. Also, for our anniversary or my birthday or his birthday, I like to go out on the actual day of it. Doesn''t matter if it''s a Wednesday and we go to our local cheap italian place. It''s the actual acknowledgement of the date.

My bf has also twice done a ''twofer.'' Once, I won a bet and he said he would take me to any restaurant I wanted. So I chose one. So instead of taking me there, he waits until my birthday and take me there then... Also, we have this one sushi place that we absolutely love but is super expensive. We said we would go there every other month and alternate paying since we love it so much. So, for our anniversary, he takes me there. Another twofer...

He doesn''t get me flowers because he doesn''t ''believe'' in them (and the one time he did they were carnations, so I dropped bothering about it). The last time he got me a card was the first year we were dating.

I know it''s not a me thing -- he never knows what to get his mother and has me pick out her birthday and holiday cards for her.

Aside from all of this though... he''s perfect!
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blueroses

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Interesting that we''re having this kind of discussion in January; check out this article:



Perhaps it''s time to drop that special someone?: Many Americans look upon January as ''31 days to leave your lover.''
Kate Shatzkin | the (Baltimore) Sun


If you''re in a relationship, beware of the month of January. Along with unwanted pounds, bad habits and gifts that don''t fit, Americans often mark the beginning of a new year by jettisoning romantic partners.

After the winter holidays, and before the lovefest of Valentine''s Day, January presents an opportune window for a fresh start.


Among some therapists, sociologists and advisers to the lovelorn, it''s known as breakup month.


"You would not believe the huge influx of letters I get in January," says Lisa Daily, a syndicated online dating and relationships columnist based in Sarasota.


Those who write in, she says, represent the recently dumped and the completely surprised. "They say everything was going great over the holidays. This came out of the blue."


The season of heartbreak affects the ordinary and the famous. Brad and Jen dropped the bombshell of their breakup last January. Ben Affleck saw two very public relationships go south after the holidays -- with Gwyneth Paltrow in January 1999 and Jennifer Lopez at the dawn of 2004.


Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman ended their relationship a week before Valentine''s Day in 2001, then Cruise broke up with Penelope Cruz in January 2004. Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger? Chris Evert Lloyd and her fellow tennis star, John Lloyd? Splitsville in January.


Daily blames the phenomenon on the "relationship freeze," which she says takes place between Thanksgiving and New Year''s. By the time the holidays start, she points out, you might have long-laid plans to travel with your now-not-so sweetie. You''ve put down money you''d rather not lose. And if you broke up before the end of the year you -- and your ex -- suddenly would be alone while everyone else made merry.


"I think what it speaks to is that romance has its practical and even Machiavellian and manipulative nature," says Pepper Schwartz, a professor of sociology at the University of Washington who studies relationships. "People look out for their own welfare, and they''ll do things that make it easier for them."


Jamie Braman, executive director of Maryland''s Upscale Singles, a group for single professionals over 30, says her membership always spikes at the beginning of the year. Men in particular, she says, have told her they''re loath to break up over the holidays, "because this way they have a guarantee of a date and things to do over the holidays. They break up after New Year''s and before Valentine''s Day, because there''s no way they''re going to sit there at Valentine''s Day and buy a gift and pretend they''re into this person."


But women often break it off in January too. In their dating days, Daily says, "My girlfriends and I never dumped a guy before Christmas. You don''t want to be that jerk."


January breakups can be devastating. Ask Baltimore technical writer Alisa Hoffman. Three years ago, she spent her first holiday season with her boyfriend of about nine months. They chose the perfect tree and decorated it together. They had Christmas dinner with her mother, then coffee later with his sister. They spent a quiet evening together on New Year''s Eve.


Soon after that, though, a girlfriend showed Hoffman a profile on match.com. There, next to his ad for new companions, was a photo of Hoffman''s guy.


"And there was our tree in the background," Hoffman recalls.


After the January breakup, Hoffman, 41, regretted the money she''d spent on gifts for her man. "It was a waste," she says.


In the heat of the holidays


Even relationships that might have seemed healthy before the holidays could be shaky by January because of the expectations and intimacy of the season. "They show their boyfriend to mom and dad, and mom and dad go, ''Are you kidding?'' " says sociologist Schwartz. "Or they go to a party and their partner gets plastered, and they see a side of their partner that scares them. The holidays create a finer focus on the relationship, and they do put people into situations that they''re not in every day."


Then there are relationships that start during the holidays and don''t turn out to be as, well, festive as they might have seemed when the mistletoe was hanging and the alcohol flowed.


That''s what happened a couple of years ago to Singin Parks, a 31-year-old tennis and golf instructor, who started dating someone he ran into at several holiday parties. She seemed flirtatious and fun.


The relationship fizzled before January was over. "She put out a persona that wasn''t really her," Parks says. "Once I found out who she really was, I found out . . she''s very rigid."


For married couples, separation might be postponed until January to give children one last chance for a traditional family holiday, says Sharyn Sooho, a family lawyer outside Boston and co-founder of divorcenet .com. Often, it''s also one last chance for the marriage.


"If there was discontent before and the holidays are another opportunity to face one another across the table and be disappointed again, that will only reinforce the idea about divorce," Sooho says.



Kate Shatzkin is a staff writer at The (Baltimore) Sun, a Tribune Publishing newspaper.
 

nytemist

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Messages
962
blueroses- wow, that is a really interesting article! I know of a few couples that broke up after the holidays. It''s weird how that works.

To me, it''s not him buying something pricye, or going to a high-end restaurant. It''s the little things- like if BF sees a funny pin that makes him think of me because it fits my humor and I''d love it. When he makes tea for himself, he''d make mine too. We know, men don''t really get the little things. Although, I''m made happy with the things that he actually does. My almost daily phone call when he goes on his lunch break. Him telling me about a classic car or motorcyle he saw during his day because he knows I''d love to hear about it. (I love old cars) I''m lucky, he actually likes to cuddle! But the classic old movie romance? I don''t think I''ll ever get that.
 

SquareCut

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
148
Blueroses,
Sorry to hear about your aunt. Sounds like your man is making progress if you came home to a bed full of gifts. Next Thanksgiving remind him that there are only x shopping days till Christmas for him to get your gifts - that worked for me this year. My fiance wrapped my gifts this year but he wrapped them with some left over wall paper!
 

Erin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2004
Messages
2,783
Date: 1/23/2006 7:28:20 PM
Author: SquareCut

My fiance wrapped my gifts this year but he wrapped them with some left over wall paper!
That''s pretty funny - I''ve never heard of that. It must have been pretty difficult considering the weight of wall paper.

I give him an E for Effort
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but a C on presentation
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monarch64

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
18,394
I think you have to remember that men and women are raised so differently in our society regarding emotions and feelings. Girls are taught from an early age and socialized to believe that it's ok to express our emotions and feelings...boys are taught pretty much the opposite. If a guy even has a shred of romance left in him (after years of being told boys don't cry, yada yada yada) then he has to face the possibility of being ridiculed by his friends if he shows his romantic side and someone finds out! Boys and girls are taught to be complete opposites, and then expected to have these great, romantic relationships and fabulous marriages. It's really a pretty crazy concept when you think about it. And it's very frustrating to both sexes when they can't figure out how to make the other one happy without compromising their ingrained beliefs!

My husband is pretty good about trying to be romantic and expressing himself, but every now and then it takes some reminding. About a year ago we were experiencing a slump in the romance department so I left a book called "1001 Ways to be Romantic" in the bathroom. He's a guy, he likes to read in the bathroom ,hee hee. The book had been in our bookcase by the t.v. we spend the most time in front of for a long time (it was a bridal shower gift), it just took me putting it under his nose to get him to read it! Sometimes you just have to get creative.

. BTW, he gave me a DVD player he'd been wanting for my birthday four years ago and I made him take it back. We'd been dating for less than a year and I set the tone real quick for that kind of thing!
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