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Memorial Diamonds out of Cremains - anyone do this? Need Info.

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gwendolyn

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Date: 6/8/2008 7:29:57 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Oh we got quite an education all right. Some of us saw that coming like a snake oil salesman in a covered wagon
9.gif
No kidding! I hope Mr. James catches up to our pal Rusty and gets some answers, since he''s obviously not willing to share them voluntarily with us!
1.gif
 

lisa1.01fvs1

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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This appears to be a totally reprehensible and fraudulent product.

On the moral/ethical/common decency side - preying on people, capitalizing on grief with fakes is nothing short of stealing and completely grotesque.

Where are the cremains dumped? In the bin out back?

For anyone still interested in the "pictures" the brochure has to offer this.

ETA: sorry so small, pics are Purification, Purified-Carbon, LifeGem Diamond Lab, Diamond Creation Press, Rough Diamond and Finished Diamond.

The DVD says they own 20 diamond presses.

LifeGem.jpg
 

lisa1.01fvs1

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Terms and Conditions in brochure (AKA fine print) state CLEARLY:

#3) "......In certain cases, impurities may exist that will not allow for diamond growth and further natural carbon will be infused to achieve a successful LifeGem diamond. I regonize that family members and/or firends of the Deceased and/or hair donor(s) may suffer mental anguish in the event that a LifeGem cannot be created in accordance with their wishes or those of the Deceased. I assume all risks to me and my family members and/or friends or the Deceased and/or hair donor(s) in connection with this order."

Impuities - like the actual cremains

Further carbon - AKA non-cremains diamond carbon fake particles

Mental anguish - you think?

In accordance... - then why would they go ahead and make a fake?

Assume risk - like gettting a fake diamond and having loved ones creamins dumped behind building.
or, a loved one jumping off building or getting commited b/c diamond is a fake (but how would they ever know?)

LifeGemTerms.jpg
 

sparxs111

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
213
To me it comes down to one simple point. PROVE IT TO US! After being given numerous opportunities to discuss any component of the process, even without giving away trade secrets which is understandable, there has been no scientific proof, or adequate statements backing up claims made that they DO create diamonds from human remains. People have gone through the patents which was an initial comment from Rusty as well. All I have observed in this thread is moody responses from Rusty due to not being able to answer simple questions about his product or procedure.

I WANT TO BE EDUCATED! Educate me and I will believe, cover it in smoke and mirrors and I will claim that your product is false and you are taking advantage of people in their time of grief when they are vulnerable. Some people need your service for closure and comfort. However they would ONLY seek this product if it is true.

Make me a believer. Teach us, give details, break down the science and engineering behind it. I don''t want all those people that have your product to be devistated if what they believe to be their loved one is not. Otherwise, if your product is taking advantage of people, I hope at some point your company is exposed for fraud it is undertaking.
 

niceice

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As somebody who is new to the Price Scope forum, perhaps Randy is not aware of what a powerful advertising medium it can be... An advertising medium which can be quite beneficial in terms of promoting brand name recognition for a product. One of the challenges that many vendors face when they first begin to represent their product on Price Scope is the feeling of being completely exposed to the public, after all those of us who choose to wander the halls of this forum find ourselves living in a glass fish bowl of sorts where it becomes necessary to operate in a mode of transparency which would seem odd under normal circumstances in the business world, but which is an upcoming trend in business which tends to gain the much needed respect of the public. I encourage Randy to be as forthright as possible when representing his product on Price Scope and to answer the questions posed to him as thorough as possible.


If by chance Randy is not familiar with the marketing power of Price Scope in terms of search engine ranking, I suggest that he Google various diamond related terms to see how close to the top that Price Scope topics tend to rank. For instance, a Google search for our niche product "ideal cut diamonds" indicates that we are currently in the top position (today) for non-paid positions, followed by two other well known vendors. Price Scope is Ranked Third for "ideal cut diamonds" without paying a dime for keyword placement. I attempted to attach a screenshot of the ranking titled ps_idealcutranking.jpg to this thread and it appears to have uploaded to the server but I received an error message and don''t know how to attach pictures which have already been uploaded to the server so perhaps somebody else with more experience can attach it to this thread as a visual reference.


At present Life Gem is ranked in the Number One position for its product and they pay for keyword placement so they are ranked in the top positions for the paid advertisement positions for their product name, however if experience is an indicator, I don''t think that it will take long for this thread to find itself ranked in the top positions for "Life Gem" on Google and other search engines and at present I believe that the thread raises more doubts than answers in the minds of consumers who may happen to run across it when trying to learn more about the Life Gem Diamond Product from the internet. Today''s consumers more educated, not less. If we don''t provide them with the answers that they are looking for, they merely assume that there must be something to hide. Translucency is the key to Consumer Trust on Price Scope and the internet.

 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 29, 2003
Messages
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It was pointed out to me that in my last point I kept referring to "Randy" when the owner of Life Gems is "Rusty"... Oops! But really, at this point, what''s the difference if he''s not going to step up
2.gif
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
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Here is the screen shot I was trying to post:

ps_idealcutranking3.jpg
 

lisa1.01fvs1

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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Date: 6/6/2008 9:39:30 PM
Author: YourGemologist

Mr. VandenBiesen,

You have been given an exceptionally rare opportunity to come to the most prestigious forum on the internet and tell the story of LifeGem to a wonderful group of industry professionals and consumers. But instead of answering the questions presented to you, you choose to divert the attention to a letter that your attorney wrote to me over a month ago.

I want to be crystal clear with you as to why I am asking these questions.

Beyond my gemological credentials, I am licensed by the Texas Department of Insurance as a Property and Casualty Insurance Adjuster (TDI#1300433). I am also licensed as a Continuing Education Provider (TDI#3391) to write training courses for insurance agents and adjusters. By the Midwest Reciprocity Agreement, my TDI educational credentials are accepted by the Illinois Department of Insurance.

It is my belief that your company’s failure to provide information to support your advertising claims could portend as evidence of insurance fraud, based on special insurance policies being issued based on your unsubstantiated claims.

I am making no accusations, but I am saying that there is reasonable doubt in my office regarding your claims…..that you just don’t seem willing or able to prove.

Now, with all of that said, can we get answers to our questions?

#1. Where are the diamond presses you claim to own and operate?

#2. Out of an 8 ounce cup of traditional cremation ashes, how much actual graphite do you produce?

#3. Of 100% of the carbon contained in your claimed product, what is the average percentage of carbon from a loved one''s ashes?

#4. How can you prove to consumers that you actually use the ashes of their loved one’s in your claimed synthetic diamonds?

If you are not willing to provide the answers to the good people here on Pricescope.com, perhaps you will be willing to answer the questions from the Illinois Department of Insurance, and/or the Illinois Attorney Generals office. That choice is now up to you as I will not belabor this point any longer, nor do I wish to take advantage of the hospitality being afforded to us by Pricescope.

With respects and appreciation to all of the wonderful folks here on Pricescope. I realize that this topic is outside the accepted parameter of your usual subject matter. But I personally and professionally find the actions of LifeGem to be particularly distasteful as it plays on the emotions of consumers at the most difficult time of life, the loss of a loved one. And yet, LifeGem has been unable and unwilling to answer even the most basic questions about their operations. And I will not stop until those answers are provided.

I wish to express my sincere appreciation to Pricescope for allowing this discussion. And with respects to everyone on Pricescope.

Robert James FGA, GG
International School of Gemology

Jeez, I''m beg. to feel like his professional liason to PS.

Another email and the last one I''ll relay.

Today 9:34 AM:


"My silence has been an attempt to spend the weekend with my wife in Ann Arbor Michigan and finalize the purchase of a home in the Chicago area.
These folks jump to conclusions. I will make an attempt at the answers to four basic questions that want to be answered. Later this afternoon."


I guess he''s referencing the above 4 questions posed by Robert James.

 

megus

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
9
Well Rusty, it seems that you have now had more than ample time to answer everyone here. And it also seems that you are reading, but you don''t want to respond as your email said.

Maybe it''s time to step things up a notch here.

I will quote from your first thread something you personally said.

"Our mission is to provide a service that may ease the grieving process. If we were not doing as we say we are I would expect to go to prison. It is unconsciencable to think that we would do anything other than what we represent to the consumer."

Now, I didn''t say that, you did. And the ONLY thing people here are asking is that you show us just how you are accomplishing that objective!

I will still continue to give you the benefit of the doubt unless you decide not to continue to educate us with valid information.

MEgus
 

Clark McEwen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
64
My name is Clark McEwen and I am the COO at the worlds premier producer of lab-grown diamonds (Gemesis). Like the gentleman from LifeGems I too have been given a special dispensation to discuss lab-grown diamonds on this forum. If anybody has any questions with regards to the process I would be happy to answer them as best that I can with the understanding that I can not discuss anything that may broach our IP policies.

Gemesis does not grow diamonds using "alternate" carbon sources and I don''t feel that it is my place to get into the moral, ethical or commercial debates with regards to their usage. I am simply offering myself as a informational resource.
 

YourGemologist

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
25
Greetings Mr McEwen,

I very much appreciate your taking time to come here. And it is something of a coincidence as your name has come up in our investigations of LifeGem. I would respectfully like to ask you one straight forward question:

Does Gemesis now, or in the past, make or have an agreement to make, or have ever had an agreement to make, synthetic diamonds for LifeGem?

I will appreciate your clarification of this issue.

Robert James FGA, GG
ISG
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 6/10/2008 10:56:01 PM
Author: Clark McEwen
My name is Clark McEwen and I am the COO at the worlds premier producer of lab-grown diamonds (Gemesis). Like the gentleman from LifeGems I too have been given a special dispensation to discuss lab-grown diamonds on this forum. If anybody has any questions with regards to the process I would be happy to answer them as best that I can with the understanding that I can not discuss anything that may broach our IP policies.

Gemesis does not grow diamonds using 'alternate' carbon sources and I don't feel that it is my place to get into the moral, ethical or commercial debates with regards to their usage. I am simply offering myself as a informational resource.
Hey Clark,

It's great to see you on Pricescope and I think the PS Admin is to be applauded for empowering transparency, education and discussion of these topics.

I don't know if you know, but I posted a photo of a group of us at the GIA reception in a thread covering JCK; news and photos from business & social events at the show. You can see the post here: Scenes from JCK 2008 For our gentle readers, Mr. McEwen is the distinguished gentleman in the striped tie.

I look forward to reading your comments. A tip of the hat and welcome.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Welcome to PS Mr McEwen.
I have several questions for you but this thread isn''t the place for it.
Look for a new thread sometime tomorrow if you would please.
I will put your name in the title.
Thank you and again welcome to PS.
storm
 

megus

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
9
Mr. McEwen,

Welcome! I have one question to ask you that I think will help here.

In your presses, when you are growing diamonds, do you grow them one at a time or do you grow several at a time?

MEgus
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,150
Mr. McEwan,

Welcome. I agree, this is not the right thread to be discussing Gemesis or their products other than how your expertise relates to LifeGems although I will be very interested in the Gemesis thread as well. Thank you for joining us. I do have a few questions that may be helpful in understanding the whole industry of 'memorial diamonds' and the LifeGems product in particular.

In your opinion, is it even possible to manufacture a diamond using sublimation as discussed in the LifeGems patent or is Robert James’s criticism on this point valid?

In your opinion, is it possible to specify the carbon source used in the manufacture of a particular diamond using HPHT, be it a handful of hair or a particular pencil, assuming there is sufficient carbon present in the source? Would any carbon bearing source theoretically be acceptable or are there technical types of requirements that make one source more suitable than another?

Is the preparation and purification of the original carbon source to make it usable for this purpose a difficult component in the diamond manufacturing process?

Is there a significant amount of ‘waste’ in the HPHT process, meaning carbon that needs to be present in the source for the process to work properly but that doesn’t become part of the final product?

Can you think of any possible test to perform on a synthetic diamond that would be helpful in tracing the origin of the carbon to a particular source?

Can diamonds of a particular color, and/or size be grown to order?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
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There are times when I read posts here and think to my self, "GOSH I LOVE THIS PLACE!"

Wink
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
25,463
Date: 6/11/2008 8:16:26 AM
Author: Wink
There are times when I read posts here and think to my self, ''GOSH I LOVE THIS PLACE!''

Wink
Me too, Wink, I am eagerly awaiting updates to this thread! What an amazing discussion so far. As a consumer I do not typically think about the potentially huge repercusions of this forum for people in the trade, but this thread certainly highlights the benefits, and potenital pitfalls, of venturing into PS-land for people acutally working in the inductry. We consumers are all anonymous, but of course, you tradespeople are all identified by name! I love it!
 

Clark McEwen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
64
Currently we are using our chambers to grow one diamond at a time however we have grown up to eight in a single run. The factor that we use to decide on how many stones are grown per run is simply the value of the resulting production. When given the choice between growing one 2.50ct - 6.00ct diamond or eight 0.50ct diamonds in one cycle the answer should be obvious. As a side note the amount of Carbon that can be put into a core is limited so we are also limited to the amount of diamond that will grow.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Date: 6/11/2008 1:59:32 PM
Author: Clark McEwen
Currently we are using our chambers to grow one diamond at a time however we have grown up to eight in a single run. The factor that we use to decide on how many stones are grown per run is simply the value of the resulting production. When given the choice between growing one 2.50ct - 6.00ct diamond or eight 0.50ct diamonds in one cycle the answer should be obvious. As a side note the amount of Carbon that can be put into a core is limited so we are also limited to the amount of diamond that will grow.

My whistle is wetting, tell me more, more, more...

Storm started a thread for you to go have a more thurough discussion about only your diamonds.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/questions-for-mr-mcewen-of-gemesis-com.87393/

Wink
 

lisa1.01fvs1

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
1,101
Date: 6/11/2008 8:11:45 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Mr. McEwan,

Welcome. I agree, this is not the right thread to be discussing Gemesis or their products other than how your expertise relates to LifeGems although I will be very interested in the Gemesis thread as well. Thank you for joining us. I do have a few questions that may be helpful in understanding the whole industry of ''memorial diamonds'' and the LifeGems product in particular.

In your opinion, is it even possible to manufacture a diamond using sublimation as discussed in the LifeGems patent or is Robert James’s criticism on this point valid?

In your opinion, is it possible to specify the carbon source used in the manufacture of a particular diamond using HPHT, be it a handful of hair or a particular pencil, assuming there is sufficient carbon present in the source? Would any carbon bearing source theoretically be acceptable or are there technical types of requirements that make one source more suitable than another?

Is the preparation and purification of the original carbon source to make it usable for this purpose a difficult component in the diamond manufacturing process?

Is there a significant amount of ‘waste’ in the HPHT process, meaning carbon that needs to be present in the source for the process to work properly but that doesn’t become part of the final product?

Can you think of any possible test to perform on a synthetic diamond that would be helpful in tracing the origin of the carbon to a particular source?

Can diamonds of a particular color, and/or size be grown to order?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
I guess we are getting somewhere regarding Megus'' question about quantity but do u have anything to add regarding the above posed questions?

These are really well articulated and are at the crux of the entire matter.

Oh and let''s not forget Robert James''s question about your product and possible affiliation with LifeGem.
 

Clark McEwen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
64
Date: 6/11/2008 8:11:45 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Mr. McEwan,


Welcome. I agree, this is not the right thread to be discussing Gemesis or their products other than how your expertise relates to LifeGems although I will be very interested in the Gemesis thread as well. Thank you for joining us. I do have a few questions that may be helpful in understanding the whole industry of ''memorial diamonds'' and the LifeGems product in particular.


In your opinion, is it even possible to manufacture a diamond using sublimation as discussed in the LifeGems patent or is Robert James’s criticism on this point valid?


In your opinion, is it possible to specify the carbon source used in the manufacture of a particular diamond using HPHT, be it a handful of hair or a particular pencil, assuming there is sufficient carbon present in the source? Would any carbon bearing source theoretically be acceptable or are there technical types of requirements that make one source more suitable than another?


Is the preparation and purification of the original carbon source to make it usable for this purpose a difficult component in the diamond manufacturing process?


Is there a significant amount of ‘waste’ in the HPHT process, meaning carbon that needs to be present in the source for the process to work properly but that doesn’t become part of the final product?


Can you think of any possible test to perform on a synthetic diamond that would be helpful in tracing the origin of the carbon to a particular source?


Can diamonds of a particular color, and/or size be grown to order?


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

Hi Neil,

I will try to answer the questions as best I can without broaching our IP policies.

Firstly, diamonds are not manufactured they are grown. An environment is created that promotes natural crystal growth and when you put ANY form of carbon into this environment it will crystallize into diamond. If you look back at the old GE program they caused Peanut Butter to crystallize into diamond! In fact we have used coal from the Titanic in the growth process.

A sufficient amount of carbon is necessary to produce the desired crystal size, just as you cant cause a glass of water to crystallize into a bucket of ice.

There is usually (but not always) some carbon "waste" as you call it left after a run. It is typically in the form of polycrystalline diamond or simple graphite.

Carbon is carbon and once it has crystallized into diamond there is (currently) no way to determine it''s source.

There is no way to predict the exact size, shade of color or quality of the rough diamond grown (obviously we have an idea). Having said that the size and quality of the finished piece is determined in the cutting process not the growth process.

I hope this is helpful
 

Clark McEwen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
64
Date: 6/10/2008 11:34:56 PM
Author: YourGemologist
Greetings Mr McEwen,


I very much appreciate your taking time to come here. And it is something of a coincidence as your name has come up in our investigations of LifeGem. I would respectfully like to ask you one straight forward question:


Does Gemesis now, or in the past, make or have an agreement to make, or have ever had an agreement to make, synthetic diamonds for LifeGem?


I will appreciate your clarification of this issue.


Robert James FGA, GG

ISG

Hi Robert,

Gemesis is a privately held company and as such does not discuss any commercial aspects of the business, this includes (but is not limited to) our production numbers, revenues and customer base. However, in this case I will simply say that Gemesis does not sub-contract out it''s capacity nor does it grow diamonds using any "alternative" carbon sources. ALL of the diamonds that we grow are sold under the Gemesis brand name and are ultimately featured in various branded lines of jewelry.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
5,096
Date: 6/11/2008 3:17:51 PM
Author: Clark McEwen

Date: 6/11/2008 8:11:45 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Mr. McEwan,


Welcome. I agree, this is not the right thread to be discussing Gemesis or their products other than how your expertise relates to LifeGems although I will be very interested in the Gemesis thread as well. Thank you for joining us. I do have a few questions that may be helpful in understanding the whole industry of ''memorial diamonds'' and the LifeGems product in particular.


In your opinion, is it even possible to manufacture a diamond using sublimation as discussed in the LifeGems patent or is Robert James’s criticism on this point valid?


In your opinion, is it possible to specify the carbon source used in the manufacture of a particular diamond using HPHT, be it a handful of hair or a particular pencil, assuming there is sufficient carbon present in the source? Would any carbon bearing source theoretically be acceptable or are there technical types of requirements that make one source more suitable than another?


Is the preparation and purification of the original carbon source to make it usable for this purpose a difficult component in the diamond manufacturing process?


Is there a significant amount of ‘waste’ in the HPHT process, meaning carbon that needs to be present in the source for the process to work properly but that doesn’t become part of the final product?


Can you think of any possible test to perform on a synthetic diamond that would be helpful in tracing the origin of the carbon to a particular source?


Can diamonds of a particular color, and/or size be grown to order?


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

Hi Neil,

I will try to answer the questions as best I can without broaching our IP policies.

Firstly, diamonds are not manufactured they are grown. An environment is created that promotes natural crystal growth and when you put ANY form of carbon into this environment it will crystallize into diamond. If you look back at the old GE program they caused Peanut Butter to crystallize into diamond! In fact we have used coal from the Titanic in the growth process.

A sufficient amount of carbon is necessary to produce the desired crystal size, just as you cant cause a glass of water to crystallize into a bucket of ice.

There is usually (but not always) some carbon ''waste'' as you call it left after a run. It is typically in the form of polycrystalline diamond or simple graphite.

Carbon is carbon and once it has crystallized into diamond there is (currently) no way to determine it''s source.

There is no way to predict the exact size, shade of color or quality of the rough diamond grown (obviously we have an idea). Having said that the size and quality of the finished piece is determined in the cutting process not the growth process.

I hope this is helpful
Hello Clark,

Welcome...

Sorry if I am too straight forward...
Laboratories like (for example) GIA, IGI, HRD etc..., have no way to determine it''s source? Like in "is it natural or man-made?
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Interesting info about how lab created diamonds are grown.

Sooo, if Gemesis (who certainly is a subject matter expert in created diamonds) cannot exactly predict the size or color of a lab grown diamond, you have to wonder how those LifeGem folks are able to do so?

I mean think what a big bummer it would be if you paid thousands of dollars to wear dear old dad or precious mom, and they turned out to be a .15 ugly brown stone
11.gif

You have to question how LifeGem is able to predict that each "loved one" produces a flawless big diamond
33.gif
Wowee, they must have some awesome skills huh
20.gif
More education that LifeGem does not pass the sniff test.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,150
Thank you. Yes, that was helpful. To summarize:

Obviously you can’t know if they are doing as they claim in making diamonds from a customer supplied carbon source, but it’s technically possible if sufficient carbon is present.

I didn’t know a better word than ‘waste’. I didn’t use this to be disparaging. I was thinking of other crystals like emeralds that are grown from solution and for the process to work well the vast majority of the material remains in solution after the crystals have grown. This doesn’t seem to be the case with diamonds grown in one of your presses.

In their promotional material, LifeGem allows a shopper to choose both size and color of the stone before ordering. The color is chosen from a list of general hues such as Blue, Red, Colorless, etc. but the exact tone and saturation are unspecified and the size is chosen from a rather tight range of 0.05-0.10cts.. Am I correct that you are saying that using the Gemesis procedures and equipment you would not be able to do this?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
 

Clark McEwen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
64
Date: 6/11/2008 3:34:45 PM
Author: DiaGem
Date: 6/11/2008 3:17:51 PM

Author: Clark McEwen


Date: 6/11/2008 8:11:45 AM

Author: denverappraiser

Mr. McEwan,



Welcome. I agree, this is not the right thread to be discussing Gemesis or their products other than how your expertise relates to LifeGems although I will be very interested in the Gemesis thread as well. Thank you for joining us. I do have a few questions that may be helpful in understanding the whole industry of ''memorial diamonds'' and the LifeGems product in particular.



In your opinion, is it even possible to manufacture a diamond using sublimation as discussed in the LifeGems patent or is Robert James’s criticism on this point valid?



In your opinion, is it possible to specify the carbon source used in the manufacture of a particular diamond using HPHT, be it a handful of hair or a particular pencil, assuming there is sufficient carbon present in the source? Would any carbon bearing source theoretically be acceptable or are there technical types of requirements that make one source more suitable than another?



Is the preparation and purification of the original carbon source to make it usable for this purpose a difficult component in the diamond manufacturing process?



Is there a significant amount of ‘waste’ in the HPHT process, meaning carbon that needs to be present in the source for the process to work properly but that doesn’t become part of the final product?



Can you think of any possible test to perform on a synthetic diamond that would be helpful in tracing the origin of the carbon to a particular source?



Can diamonds of a particular color, and/or size be grown to order?



Neil Beaty


GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA


Professional Appraisals in Denver


Hi Neil,


I will try to answer the questions as best I can without broaching our IP policies.


Firstly, diamonds are not manufactured they are grown. An environment is created that promotes natural crystal growth and when you put ANY form of carbon into this environment it will crystallize into diamond. If you look back at the old GE program they caused Peanut Butter to crystallize into diamond! In fact we have used coal from the Titanic in the growth process.


A sufficient amount of carbon is necessary to produce the desired crystal size, just as you cant cause a glass of water to crystallize into a bucket of ice.


There is usually (but not always) some carbon ''waste'' as you call it left after a run. It is typically in the form of polycrystalline diamond or simple graphite.


Carbon is carbon and once it has crystallized into diamond there is (currently) no way to determine it''s source.


There is no way to predict the exact size, shade of color or quality of the rough diamond grown (obviously we have an idea). Having said that the size and quality of the finished piece is determined in the cutting process not the growth process.


I hope this is helpful
Hello Clark,


Welcome...


Sorry if I am too straight forward...

Laboratories like (for example) GIA, IGI, HRD etc..., have no way to determine it''s source? Like in ''is it natural or man-made?



No problem!

My answer was pertaining to determining the source of the carbon not the source of the crystal. With the proper equipment all labs can look at the crystal structure or growth patterns in a diamond and identify it''s origin. Lab-grown diamonds have very regular and consistent growth while mined diamonds are irregular and inconsistent. Having said that, todays technology can only identify todays technology so as crystal growth technology advances so will the need for new identification equipment.
 

YourGemologist

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
25

Hi Robert,




Gemesis is a privately held company and as such does not discuss any commercial aspects of the business, this includes (but is not limited to) our production numbers, revenues and customer base. However, in this case I will simply say that Gemesis does not sub-contract out it's capacity nor does it grow diamonds using any "alternative" carbon sources. ALL of the diamonds that we grow are sold under the Gemesis brand name and are ultimately featured in various branded lines of jewelry.
Clark McEwen
www.gemesis.com
======================================================================

Hi Clark,

Thank you. This was immensely helpful. I realize that proprietary information on your operations cannot be shared, but as LifeGem seems to be grasping at straws right now the clarification regarding any relations between LifeGem and Gemesis was important.

At this point, LifeGem is either going to have to (1) prove that they own and operate those 20 diamond presses, or (2) admit they don’t own any and start answering a lot of questions regarding the source of the product they have been delivering.

And if LifeGem cannot come here to Pricescope and clarify this issue quickly there are actions in the works to help protect consumers.

One more thing, the ISG is about to receive our Raman Microscope and will be building what we plan on being one of the largest Raman databases in the industry. I don’t know if you sell single stones to organizations such as ours, but it would be an honor if we could purchase a Gemesis Diamond to add to our ISG Student Reference Collection and to our Raman database

Again, thank you for taking the time to come here and share your information and knowledge. I congratulate everyone at Gemesis for the excellent work you are doing, and for the excellent Gemesis diamonds you produce.

Best Regards,

Robert
 

Clark McEwen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
64
Date: 6/11/2008 3:50:55 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Interesting info about how lab created diamonds are grown.


Sooo, if Gemesis (who certainly is a subject matter expert in created diamonds) cannot exactly predict the size or color of a lab grown diamond, you have to wonder how those LifeGem folks are able to do so?


I mean think what a big bummer it would be if you paid thousands of dollars to wear dear old dad or precious mom, and they turned out to be a .15 ugly brown stone
11.gif


You have to question how LifeGem is able to predict that each ''loved one'' produces a flawless big diamond
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Wowee, they must have some awesome skills huh
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More education that LifeGem does not pass the sniff test.

I did not mean to imply that we have no idea on what is coming out. We do know if a rough crystal will be yellow, orange, blue etc but we can not predict Pantone 128 for example. With regards to size we know if everything goes as planned a crystal will typically be between 2.50ct and 4.00ct. So we aren''t totally blind with the outcomes.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,096
Date: 6/11/2008 5:17:32 PM
Author: Clark McEwen



No problem!

My answer was pertaining to determining the source of the carbon not the source of the crystal. With the proper equipment all labs can look at the crystal structure or growth patterns in a diamond and identify it's origin. Lab-grown diamonds have very regular and consistent growth while mined diamonds are irregular and inconsistent. Having said that, todays technology can only identify todays technology so as crystal growth technology advances so will the need for new identification equipment.
Thanks for explaining...

Is it possible for you to post an image that shows the difference between the structures of Lab-grown vs. Natural?
 

megus

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
9
Clark,

Can you tell us how long it takes to grow a 2.50 to 4.00ct crystal?

MEgus
 
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