Diamond Feather Inclusions: A Durability Risk?

Date: 4/29/2010 1:22:53 PM
Author: coatimundi
Thanks Andrey!

Many thanks to David Atlas, Jeff Averbook, Richard Sherwood, Arthur Anton Skuratowicz, Julie Nash, Nancy Stacy, and Yoram F. for your great contributions. We appreciate it!

And thanks Garry and OctoNus.com for the fantastic images.

Date: 4/29/2010 9:35:24 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Well done Coati


Do others think that this will be useful to refer newbies to, perhaps with a quote from the conclusion, or your favorite appraiser etc? Is there any disagreement about that final statement?


Generally, feathers do not pose a durability risk during normal wear, but each stone must be judged individually. Diamonds that contain multiple, precariously placed feathers may cause a risk, as mentioned in the expert responses above, but if a diamond has survived mining and faceting, then it is unlikely that a feather will worsen with wear.

Date: 4/30/2010 9:43:57 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
As for the article, Coati, can you make a small correction, though not important for the actual message of the article.


You mentioned that bearding is caused by the faceting process. Actually, it is caused by incorrect manipulations in the bruting-process.


What I further miss, is the mention that certain feathers are a result of stress released during the manufacturing-process (and I can imagine that this can also occur during the mining, and even under external geophysical pressure over a period of millions of years).


All in all, like many mentioned in the article, I think that feathers and durability are a non-issue, especially if I think compare to the damage I have seen resulting from simply wearing a diamond for 50 years. That really surprises me badly, and I wonder how the jeweler-setter-benchman affects such damage.


Other than these small remarks, good job.


Live long,

Date: 4/30/2010 5:39:32 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 4/29/2010 9:35:24 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Well done Coati


Do others think that this will be useful to refer newbies to, perhaps with a quote from the conclusion, or your favorite appraiser etc? Is there any disagreement about that final statement?


Generally, feathers do not pose a durability risk during normal wear, but each stone must be judged individually. Diamonds that contain multiple, precariously placed feathers may cause a risk, as mentioned in the expert responses above, but if a diamond has survived mining and faceting, then it is unlikely that a feather will worsen with wear.

Garry,

re:but if a diamond has survived .... faceting, then it is unlikely that a feather will worsen with wear.

Cool polishing process could change it. Polishing process become more and more safe for diamonds and can not be more rejection tools for diamonds with low durability

EOS

'' Stones with high stress, even in the bruting area, can be processed without any damage. ''



GIP

Date: 5/1/2010 2:23:45 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 4/30/2010 5:39:32 AM

Author: Serg

Date: 4/29/2010 9:35:24 PM

Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Well done Coati



Do others think that this will be useful to refer newbies to, perhaps with a quote from the conclusion, or your favorite appraiser etc? Is there any disagreement about that final statement?



Generally, feathers do not pose a durability risk during normal wear, but each stone must be judged individually. Diamonds that contain multiple, precariously placed feathers may cause a risk, as mentioned in the expert responses above, but if a diamond has survived mining and faceting, then it is unlikely that a feather will worsen with wear.

Garry,


re:but if a diamond has survived .... faceting, then it is unlikely that a feather will worsen with wear.


Cool polishing process could change it. Polishing process become more and more safe for diamonds and can not be more rejection tools for diamonds with low durability


EOS


'' Stones with high stress, even in the bruting area, can be processed without any damage. ''




GIP

Sergey you mean that diamonds that might have broken during traditional manufacturing processes may survive todays modern techniques?

I think this is true for laser sawing and laser blocking, as well as grinding with a coolant.


Coati / Paul - “incorrect manipulations” could be better worded?

Perhaps:

Rounding (bruting) too aggressively or fast.

Date: 5/1/2010 3:02:22 AM
Author: Serg


Garry,

re:Sergey you mean that diamonds that might have broken during traditional manufacturing processes may survive todays modern techniques?
yes. Early cutters much more often avoid to cut diamonds with some type feathers what could be close to girdle or facets.(early they removed such feathers firstly during sawing and then polished diamond without its. )

Date: 5/1/2010 3:29:43 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/1/2010 3:02:22 AM

Author: Serg



Garry,


re:Sergey you mean that diamonds that might have broken during traditional manufacturing processes may survive todays modern techniques?

yes. Early cutters much more often avoid to cut diamonds with some type feathers what could be close to girdle or facets.(early they removed such feathers firstly during sawing and then polished diamond without its. )

Such diamonds were considered good for oil well drilling because they could break revealing new sharp corners and edges.


Do you think it means that today and in the future many more diamonds with feathers will break than what we experts have experianced in the past?

Date: 5/1/2010 4:11:13 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 5/1/2010 3:29:43 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/1/2010 3:02:22 AM

Author: Serg



Garry,


re:Sergey you mean that diamonds that might have broken during traditional manufacturing processes may survive todays modern techniques?

yes. Early cutters much more often avoid to cut diamonds with some type feathers what could be close to girdle or facets.(early they removed such feathers firstly during sawing and then polished diamond without its. )

This is actually anti-thesis to Diamond cutter''s common practice. Cutters are known to tackle all issues within personal economic ability, I dont know many cutters that chose to sell their ''dangerous'' stones instead of taking the chance and reach end results.
Historically..., cutters used to cut (all types) outer-edge inclusions out..., now-a-days thanks to laser tech., cutters have the luxury to take any partition into consideration in the planning. But there are still much more Diamonds with feathers (& other inclusions) being cut vs. clean material. 
In my case..., out of every ten Diamonds I submit for sawing, about three Diamonds are considered dangerous due to polarization, I rarely decide not to saw.

Such diamonds were considered good for oil well drilling because they could break revealing new sharp corners and edges.


Do you think it means that today and in the future many more diamonds with feathers will break than what we experts have experianced in the past?

Garry,

Yes,it could happened in near future when technology for cool polishing as GIP will widespread . even now EOS allows bruting for some diamonds what was not possible just 5 years ago. and you know 1 year old history of completely cool processing during blocking for highly stressed( leopard) very big Pink diamond. was it possible just 2 years ago?
Cool polishing could cancel current historical expertise what diamonds with cracks are safe because they passed through hard cutting process. Cutting process will not hard at all just after 2-5 years.

Date: 5/4/2010 5:54:38 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/1/2010 4:11:13 AM
Author: Serg

Garry,

Yes,it could happened in near future when technology for cool polishing as GIP will widespread . even now EOS allows bruting for some diamonds what was not possible just 5 years ago. and you know 1 year old history of completely cool processing during blocking for highly stressed( leopard) very big Pink diamond. was it possible just 2 years ago?
Cool polishing could cancel current historical expertise what diamonds with cracks are safe because they passed through hard cutting process. Cutting process will not hard at all just after 2-5 years.

Sergey, cooling during cutting and polishing has been practiced for years...
Its true that the laser has become a safer world for Diamond processing. (Red-Green & now perhaps cool), but when push comes to shove, Diamond material still needs to be grind-ed for faceting.

So unless you have a surprise process up you sleeve, ''not hard at all'' should be changed to ''safer'' perhaps.

Date: 5/4/2010 5:54:38 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/1/2010 4:11:13 AM

Author: Serg

Date: 5/1/2010 3:29:43 AM

Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/1/2010 3:02:22 AM


Author: Serg




Garry,



re:Sergey you mean that diamonds that might have broken during traditional manufacturing processes may survive todays modern techniques?


yes. Early cutters much more often avoid to cut diamonds with some type feathers what could be close to girdle or facets.(early they removed such feathers firstly during sawing and then polished diamond without its. )



This is actually anti-thesis to Diamond cutter''s common practice. Cutters are known to tackle all issues within personal economic ability, I dont know many cutters that chose to sell their ''dangerous'' stones instead of taking the chance and reach end results.

Historically..., cutters used to cut (all types) outer-edge inclusions out..., now-a-days thanks to laser tech., cutters have the luxury to take any partition into consideration in the planning. But there are still much more Diamonds with feathers (& other inclusions) being cut vs. clean material.

In my case..., out of every ten Diamonds I submit for sawing, about three Diamonds are considered dangerous due to polarization, I rarely decide not to saw.

Such diamonds were considered good for oil well drilling because they could break revealing new sharp corners and edges.



Do you think it means that today and in the future many more diamonds with feathers will break than what we experts have experianced in the past?

Garry,


Yes,it could happened in near future when technology for cool polishing as GIP will widespread . even now EOS allows bruting for some diamonds what was not possible just 5 years ago. and you know 1 year old history of completely cool processing during blocking for highly stressed( leopard) very big Pink diamond. was it possible just 2 years ago?

Cool polishing could cancel current historical expertise what diamonds with cracks are safe because they passed through hard cutting process. Cutting process will not hard at all just after 2-5 years.

Sergey, cooling during cutting and polishing has been practiced for years...

Its true that the laser has become a safer world for Diamond processing. (Red-Green & now perhaps cool), but when push comes to shove, Diamond material still needs to be grind-ed for faceting.


So unless you have a surprise process up you sleeve, ''not hard at all'' should be changed to ''safer'' perhaps.

Date: 5/5/2010 1:30:46 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 5/4/2010 5:54:38 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/1/2010 4:11:13 AM

Author: Serg

Date: 5/1/2010 3:29:43 AM

Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/1/2010 3:02:22 AM


Author: Serg




Garry,



re:Sergey you mean that diamonds that might have broken during traditional manufacturing processes may survive todays modern techniques?


yes. Early cutters much more often avoid to cut diamonds with some type feathers what could be close to girdle or facets.(early they removed such feathers firstly during sawing and then polished diamond without its. )



This is actually anti-thesis to Diamond cutter's common practice. Cutters are known to tackle all issues within personal economic ability, I dont know many cutters that chose to sell their 'dangerous' stones instead of taking the chance and reach end results.

Historically..., cutters used to cut (all types) outer-edge inclusions out..., now-a-days thanks to laser tech., cutters have the luxury to take any partition into consideration in the planning. But there are still much more Diamonds with feathers (& other inclusions) being cut vs. clean material.

In my case..., out of every ten Diamonds I submit for sawing, about three Diamonds are considered dangerous due to polarization, I rarely decide not to saw.

Such diamonds were considered good for oil well drilling because they could break revealing new sharp corners and edges.



Do you think it means that today and in the future many more diamonds with feathers will break than what we experts have experianced in the past?

Garry,


Yes,it could happened in near future when technology for cool polishing as GIP will widespread . even now EOS allows bruting for some diamonds what was not possible just 5 years ago. and you know 1 year old history of completely cool processing during blocking for highly stressed( leopard) very big Pink diamond. was it possible just 2 years ago?

Cool polishing could cancel current historical expertise what diamonds with cracks are safe because they passed through hard cutting process. Cutting process will not hard at all just after 2-5 years.

Sergey, cooling during cutting and polishing has been practiced for years...

Its true that the laser has become a safer world for Diamond processing. (Red-Green & now perhaps cool), but when push comes to shove, Diamond material still needs to be grind-ed for faceting.


So unless you have a surprise process up you sleeve, 'not hard at all' should be changed to 'safer' perhaps.

Yoram,

Cooling polishing and cool polishing are not same.
in Cooling polishing you firstly heating diamond in polishing contact place and then cooling diamond from other part surface . So you have high temperature gradient in any case( you just reduce highest temperature) . Cooling polishing had been used mainly for very big diamonds( +100cts). Cool polishing available for any sizes

In cool polishing you do not heat diamond in polishing contact.

Like I said..., if the Diamond needs to be grind-ed, I still foresee danger. I cant discuss issues I have no knowledge of.
same for laser sawing . You can use cooling during red or green laser sawing, but cool laser sawing possible only for deep UV laser

I know its being worked on..., just like many other technological advances.
I have just been shown a prototype of a digital measuring dop..., but still dont see how it can fully resolve play range?

Date: 5/5/2010 6:09:52 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/5/2010 1:30:46 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 5/4/2010 5:54:38 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/1/2010 4:11:13 AM

Author: Serg

Date: 5/1/2010 3:29:43 AM

Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/1/2010 3:02:22 AM


Author: Serg




Garry,



re:Sergey you mean that diamonds that might have broken during traditional manufacturing processes may survive todays modern techniques?


yes. Early cutters much more often avoid to cut diamonds with some type feathers what could be close to girdle or facets.(early they removed such feathers firstly during sawing and then polished diamond without its. )



This is actually anti-thesis to Diamond cutter''s common practice. Cutters are known to tackle all issues within personal economic ability, I dont know many cutters that chose to sell their ''dangerous'' stones instead of taking the chance and reach end results.

Yoram, I did not say what cutters sell ''dengerous'' rough stones instead to cut it.
I said: Early cutters more often selected allocation plans which had not polished diamond with feathers in girdle part.
they rejected such solution and selected more safe but more cheap solutions for processing

Historically..., cutters used to cut (all types) outer-edge inclusions out..., now-a-days thanks to laser tech., cutters have the luxury to take any partition into consideration in the planning. But there are still much more Diamonds with feathers (& other inclusions) being cut vs. clean material.

In my case..., out of every ten Diamonds I submit for sawing, about three Diamonds are considered dangerous due to polarization, I rarely decide not to saw.

Such diamonds were considered good for oil well drilling because they could break revealing new sharp corners and edges.



Do you think it means that today and in the future many more diamonds with feathers will break than what we experts have experianced in the past?

Garry,


Yes,it could happened in near future when technology for cool polishing as GIP will widespread . even now EOS allows bruting for some diamonds what was not possible just 5 years ago. and you know 1 year old history of completely cool processing during blocking for highly stressed( leopard) very big Pink diamond. was it possible just 2 years ago?

Cool polishing could cancel current historical expertise what diamonds with cracks are safe because they passed through hard cutting process. Cutting process will not hard at all just after 2-5 years.

Sergey, cooling during cutting and polishing has been practiced for years...

Its true that the laser has become a safer world for Diamond processing. (Red-Green & now perhaps cool), but when push comes to shove, Diamond material still needs to be grind-ed for faceting.


So unless you have a surprise process up you sleeve, ''not hard at all'' should be changed to ''safer'' perhaps.

Yoram,

Cooling polishing and cool polishing are not same.
in Cooling polishing you firstly heating diamond in polishing contact place and then cooling diamond from other part surface . So you have high temperature gradient in any case( you just reduce highest temperature) . Cooling polishing had been used mainly for very big diamonds( +100cts). Cool polishing available for any sizes

In cool polishing you do not heat diamond in polishing contact.

Like I said..., if the Diamond needs to be grind-ed, I still foresee danger. I cant discuss issues I have no knowledge of.
same for laser sawing . You can use cooling during red or green laser sawing, but cool laser sawing possible only for deep UV laser

I know its being worked on..., just like many other technological advances.
I have just been shown a prototype of a digital measuring dop..., but still dont see how it can fully resolve play range?

Could you give more details about digital dop or any links?

Date: 5/6/2010 2:02:20 AM
Author: Serg

Date: 5/5/2010 6:09:52 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/5/2010 1:30:46 AM
Author: Serg




I know its being worked on..., just like many other technological advances.
I have just been shown a prototype of a digital measuring dop..., but still dont see how it can fully resolve play range?

Could you give more details about digital dop or any links?

Date: 5/10/2010 2:50:30 PM
Author: adoringme2
Good article.

Based on the article. IS this a terrible diamond?
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/1040406920051-PDQDFK.PDF
I can see that the feather are around the edge, so it might cause cracking while mounting? Less durable?

Any comments? Thanx.

Is it possible to tell from a 40* image and also idealscope images? If so, I will request these information.

Another question I have is whether grading for clarity includes the consideration of structural integrity. 

Date: 5/10/2010 10:07:25 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
40x is too magnified.

You did not read the entire article? I think you are obsessing in exactly the way the article was written to stop you worrying.


GIA school teaches feathers are green, GIA lab only calls them feathers if they reach the surface - I believe AGS follows the same practice.

Date: 5/10/2010 10:28:39 PM
Author: adoringme2
I agree that it needs more information to judge. I read the article and the comments. As in the article and some responses'....if it does not reach the girdle edge, or if....... then it should not be a durability issue.' The way the inclusions are plotted looks like they are on the gridle edge, and 'straight feather than a curvy feather'. May be deceiving? I am not sure.

Date: 5/19/2010 2:45:54 AM
Author: haagen_dazs
does this feather article apply to coloured gemstones too?

Date: 5/19/2010 3:24:42 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/19/2010 2:45:54 AM

Author: haagen_dazs

does this feather article apply to coloured gemstones too?

Not really