shape
carat
color
clarity

WWYD? Advice needed re: 9 year old son

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
My 9 year old son is having some social problems and I am having a hard time gauging how serious they are or what I should do to help him. He's the kind of kid who's typically oblivious to what's going on around him and some of the more subtle social nuances can escape him. There have been several instances over the past few months that have left me feeling uneasy about my son's "social status" (by that I simply mean how well he's getting along with his peers). A couple of examples below:
1. There's a kid on his baseball team who lives a couple of minutes away whom we carpool with to/from practice 3x week. He's never been nice to my son. For example, they are supposed to warm up when they arrive and when my son has said "Hey Nick, do you want to throw", he's said "No, I'm going to wait for Joey"...this has happened multiple times and my son has said that it hurts his feelings. We've encouraged him to say to him "Hey, we're teammates and it doesn't matter who we warm up with", but I guess he isn't comfortable doing so. Well, it's spilling over into school. This kid is 10 months older than my son, so he's a grade ahead of him and today at recess, my son was playing wallball and the 5th graders came out and this kid told my son "only 5th graders can play"...my son kept playing, but Nick kept saying it until finally, my son walked away.

I told DS to say to him "Do you have a problem with me? We're teammates and should have each other's backs"....I'm not sure that he will though and don't know if I should call this kid's Mom (whom I'm know pretty well, even though we aren't friends) and tell her what's going on. I know she'd be upset that Nick is excluding anyone and would talk to him about it, but I'm not sure if that would help or make things worse.

2. DS is in a program at school where the kids are in the same class from 2nd-5th grade (the teachers change) and they work in teams of a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th graders on a weekly basis in addition to within their own grade level. I'm explaining this so that you know that DS has been with the same group of kids for 3 years now. There's a core group of boys who's Mom's are the "popular" ones at school. They are constantly going out together, posting on FB about their trips and parties (complete with drunken photos!), etc. so, of course, their boys are good friends. Well, two of them have been really mean to DS this year. One of them rushed at him on the playground and pushed him because someone else threw a football to him and then poked him in the eyes on purpose (DS didn't tell me that this happened, another mother told me that her son told her what had happened. When I asked DS about it, he denied it, even though I told him it wasn't tattling if he was being physically hurt). I actually invited the family of this kid for Shabbat dinner, along with the only other Jewish family in the group, thinking that maybe if we socialized a bit, the boys would become friends. Well, this mother hasn't even had the courtesy to respond to my email. I sent a second one, just saying...”hey, wanting to see if Sept. 5th was going to work" and she responded that's she's been busy, but still didn't accept/reject the invitation... I have several friends who know her pretty well and speak highly of her, so I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but so far, it seems that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I don't want to rush in and fight my son's battles for him, as I think that these are lifelong skills he's going to need, but on the other hand, I think that these parents need to know how their kids are behaving. I'd want to know if DS was being mean to others so that I could talk to him about it. My fear is that if these parents talk to their kids, it may make it worse for DS at school and I don’t want him labeled as a “tattler”.
How do I know if this is normal stuff versus a pattern that needs to be addressed? My heart is breaking to see my sweet child excluded or hurt and I don’t know what to do. How would you handle this?

If you managed to read this saga, thank you! I am fiercely protective of my children, while recognizing that my job is not to fight their battles for them, but to give them the skills to fight them for themselves, so I’m struggling with the “right” thing to do.
 

jaysonsmom

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
4,570
Does your son have friend(s) that he is close to? Does he talk about any of the kids more than others? I would encourage those friendships that he already has, and not try to help him make more friends, because I've begun to see that friendships are like romantic relationships, and they can't be forced. Either there's chemistry there or there isn't. If you step in to help his social life, it could backfire, and make him into a "tattler" or "momma's boy" in the eyes of the other kids. Unless your son is being bullied, I'd step back and let him fight his own battles. It's part of growing up.

Both of my kids have a couple of close buddies, but I noticed that in large group settings (such as registration day) where his whole grade saw each other after a long summer vacation, I noticed too, that he was not on of the "popular" kids that everyone came up to and greeted...in fact, he looked nervous and shy in front of his peers. I am okay with that. I know he has a few good friends that he can count on, and that is what matters. Friendships are about quality no quantity imho.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
jaysonsmom|1409265008|3740997 said:
Does your son have friend(s) that he is close to? Does he talk about any of the kids more than others? I would encourage those friendships that he already has, and not try to help him make more friends, because I've begun to see that friendships are like romantic relationships, and they can't be forced. Either there's chemistry there or there isn't. If you step in to help his social life, it could backfire, and make him into a "tattler" or "momma's boy" in the eyes of the other kids. Unless your son is being bullied, I'd step back and let him fight his own battles. It's part of growing up.

Both of my kids have a couple of close buddies, but I noticed that in large group settings (such as registration day) where his whole grade saw each other after a long summer vacation, I noticed too, that he was not on of the "popular" kids that everyone came up to and greeted...in fact, he looked nervous and shy in front of his peers. I am okay with that. I know he has a few good friends that he can count on, and that is what matters. Friendships are about quality no quantity imho.

Yes, but since they are in the same class with him, those couple of close friends are choosing to hang out with the "bullies" rather than my son because they've been mocked when they chose not to hang out with the group. That's the problem with only having known a handful of kids since kindergarten. :roll:

DS doesn't seem shy in social situations (like Meet & Greet), but I keep hearing about these incidents, which make me worry about what's going on. :???:
 

momhappy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
4,660
One thing that I've learned with my kids is that you can't force friendships and that's sort of what I was hearing when I read your post. I can relate (I actually have a 9 year-old boy and I have another child who is very socially awkward and is often excluded, picked on, etc.). The only times that I have ever intervened was when a child at school was being routinely verbally abusive (bullying) and the other time was when I actually witnessed a child being mean/rude to my child. In the first instance, I spoke to the school because the abuse was happening during the school day. The school quickly resolved it. In the second instance, I approached the child who was being mean/rude and told them that it was fine if they weren't friends with my child, but they would not be rude any more (in a firm voice). The child was pretty shocked that I addressed the issue and I think that it made an impact because the child stopped being mean (although, they are still not friends despite the fact that they see each other regularly, but that's fine).
If I were in your shoes, I would stop trying to force friendships where there is no interest. I know it's hard. I deal with it all the time and it's painful to watch your kids struggle socially. The boys you mentioned do not seem interested in having friendships with your son and no matter what you tell your son to say, what you invite the boys to, etc., that will probably not change. I would, however, not allow any bullying, verbal abuse, physical abuse, so perhaps you should focus on that. I would speak to the school about the shoving/poking incident so that they can keep an eye on things.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
momhappy|1409266012|3741009 said:
One thing that I've learned with my kids is that you can't force friendships and that's sort of what I was hearing when I read your post. I can relate (I actually have a 9 year-old boy and I have another child who is very socially awkward and is often excluded, picked on, etc.). The only times that I have ever intervened was when a child at school was being routinely verbally abusive (bullying) and the other time was when I actually witnessed a child being mean/rude to my child. In the first instance, I spoke to the school because the abuse was happening during the school day. The school quickly resolved it. In the second instance, I approached the child who was being mean/rude and told them that it was fine if they weren't friends with my child, but they would not be rude any more (in a firm voice). The child was pretty shocked that I addressed the issue and I think that it made an impact because the child stopped being mean (although, they are still not friends despite the fact that they see each other regularly, but that's fine).
If I were in your shoes, I would stop trying to force friendships where there is no interest. I know it's hard. I deal with it all the time and it's painful to watch your kids struggle socially. The boys you mentioned do not seem interested in having friendships with your son and no matter what you tell your son to say, what you invite the boys to, etc., that will probably not change. I would, however, not allow any bullying, verbal abuse, physical abuse, so perhaps you should focus on that. I would speak to the school about the shoving/poking incident so that they can keep an eye on things.

I wasn't trying to force a friendship...I was thinking more along the lines of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". :lol: I don't care if they are friends or not (in fact, I don't care for these couple of boys anyway), but I don't want them to ostracize/pick on my son.....
 

momhappy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
4,660
^You said that you invited the families over for dinner in hopes that the boys would become friends…. I guess that's what gave me the impression that you were trying to force friendships.
Again, I know it's tough and I get what you mean, but personally, I would only intervene if there was physical and/or verbal abuse.
I'm sorry that you and your son are going through this:( I deal with this stuff too and I worry about how it will al play out as the kids get older. I'm scared because it will probably only get worse in middle school & high school.
 

azstonie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
3,769
Retired teacher here.

These boys do what they do because their parents are nasty bullies too--->it's acceptable in their family. They won't get in trouble at home and their parents will coach them in how to not get caught by the adults.

Does the school have a zero tolerance/bullying and fighting policy? Do they utilize it? I'm concerned that the bad behaviour got physical.

The mom above who approached the bully and said okay, you're not friends but we won't tolerate verbal or physical abuse, that's not a bad approach at all. I would video it on my cellphone in case the kid said you were physical or profane, have a friend with you to witness/get the vid OR get a meeting in the principal's office with both kids and parents, deliver that basic message with no moralizing or should-language, this is about protecting your son not attempting to change someone or shame them or their parents (even though they should be). It's a bout you and your husband standing up for your son in a calm, respectable yet FIRM manner.

You and your husband would say your piece and then get up and go. No handshakes, no fake stuff with the other parents or the kids that would undercut how seriously you take this.
 

momhappy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
4,660
azstonie|1409267814|3741021 said:
Retired teacher here.

These boys do what they do because their parents are nasty bullies too--->it's acceptable in their family. They won't get in trouble at home and their parents will coach them in how to not get caught by the adults.

Does the school have a zero tolerance/bullying and fighting policy? Do they utilize it? I'm concerned that the bad behaviour got physical.

The mom above who approached the bully and said okay, you're not friends but we won't tolerate verbal or physical abuse, that's not a bad approach at all. I would video it on my cellphone in case the kid said you were physical or profane, have a friend with you to witness/get the vid OR get a meeting in the principal's office with both kids and parents, deliver that basic message with no moralizing or should-language, this is about protecting your son not attempting to change someone or shame them or their parents (even though they should be). It's a bout you and your husband standing up for your son in a calm, respectable yet FIRM manner.

You and your husband would say your piece and then get up and go. No handshakes, no fake stuff with the other parents or the kids that would undercut how seriously you take this.

I actually knew the kid that I approached (the kids mom and I had been friends for years). After I approached the kid, I spoke to the mom about the incident. It's not a bad idea to record it on a cell phone though. I knew someone who confronted their childs bully and the parents of the bully filed a police report (in this particular case, though, the "confrontation" involved the parent physically threatening the bully in a crazy/shouting sort of way, so I could understand the charges).
 

azstonie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
3,769
Yes, that is why you either bring a witness who videos the encounter or the better option, brief meeting of all parties in the principal's office.

This is an age-old problem with kids/schools. Parents can end this stuff, sometimes kids can, but the key thing is that if it goes on too long the other students and teachers lose respect for the victim and victimize them some more.

Regarding junior high, my first year teaching I had morning break cafeteria duty. It is a big school, so there were 3 teachers assigned to supervise. Me, the band director (23) and two experienced teachers, football coaches. A fight starts. I'm on my way over to it when the coaches pulled me back. I'm like, WTH there's a fight going on we have to stop it. They say, "We will stop it when that kid has had his bully a$$ kicked." The other kid had gotten tired of being victimized and put up a fight and since he was winning, the coaches gave him a little time for the message to be put across. The bully kid, his parents transferred him to another school. The former victim never had a problem of that nature again.


Any time there is an absence of leadership and authority, the kids will establish it amongst themselves. The school or teams have a responsibility to assume that authority and when they don't either parents do or the kids will.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
azstonie|1409267814|3741021 said:
Retired teacher here.

These boys do what they do because their parents are nasty bullies too--->it's acceptable in their family. They won't get in trouble at home and their parents will coach them in how to not get caught by the adults.

Does the school have a zero tolerance/bullying and fighting policy? Do they utilize it? I'm concerned that the bad behaviour got physical.

The mom above who approached the bully and said okay, you're not friends but we won't tolerate verbal or physical abuse, that's not a bad approach at all. I would video it on my cellphone in case the kid said you were physical or profane, have a friend with you to witness/get the vid OR get a meeting in the principal's office with both kids and parents, deliver that basic message with no moralizing or should-language, this is about protecting your son not attempting to change someone or shame them or their parents (even though they should be). It's a bout you and your husband standing up for your son in a calm, respectable yet FIRM manner.

You and your husband would say your piece and then get up and go. No handshakes, no fake stuff with the other parents or the kids that would undercut how seriously you take this.

Thanks azstonie! Good advice and I appreciate that you've probably seen you share during the course of your career and are able to give the best advice possible. I appreciate it!
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,766
Not wanting to be friends with someone is normal kid behaviour (I was a teacher in a past life as well), but poking other children in the eye is stupid and dangerous...... I also agree that the popular clicks of women frequently teach their kids to be obnoxious exclusionary little brats by their own behaviour, after all we teach our children by example. We have a number of groups of these at my sons school, a few in particular where their sons are complete monsters, one mother in particular turns a blind eye when her son engages in rough dangerous behaviour laughing it off when it is not funny.

Children like adults do not have to all like everyone but they should be encourage to at least attempt to get along with everybody - they do not have the right to pick on or bully another student - and all students have a right to feel safe and secure at school.

I don't think the kid on the baseball team should be pressured to be friends or interact with your son. That is an after school activity even if they go to the same school and pushing the point is going to cause the child to probably dislike your son even more, I would not however, be accepting any level of bullying from any child at school.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
arkieb1|1409274094|3741089 said:
Not wanting to be friends with someone is normal kid behaviour (I was a teacher in a past life as well), but poking other children in the eye is stupid and dangerous...... I also agree that the popular clicks of women frequently teach their kids to be obnoxious exclusionary little brats by their own behaviour, after all we teach our children by example. We have a number of groups of these at my sons school, a few in particular where their sons are complete monsters, one mother in particular turns a blind eye when her son engages in rough dangerous behaviour laughing it off when it is not funny.

Children like adults do not have to all like everyone but they should be encourage to at least attempt to get along with everybody - they do not have the right to pick on or bully another student - and all students have a right to feel safe and secure at school.

I don't think the kid on the baseball team should be pressured to be friends or interact with your son. That is an after school activity even if they go to the same school and pushing the point is going to cause the child to probably dislike your son even more, I would not however, be accepting any level of bullying from any child at school.

Thanks Arkie! I'm not trying to pressure my son to be friends with the kid we play baseball with, but he could be civil and really, warming up for 10 minutes at practice with whoever arrives first doesn't seem unreasonable. We HAVE taught our son that he doesn't have to be friends with everyone, but that he must be kind. I honestly don't want him to be friends with these kids (they are nasty piss ants), but don't want him to be picked on either.
 

azstonie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
3,769
You're welcome, I'm sorry this is happening to your DS. He sounds like a good kid with civilized manners.

Arkieb is right, the location of the bullying is important to what parents should do/not do.

School, parents go right ahead and get involved when the absence of leadership and authority in the classroom creates bullying. Take it to the principal's office if the teacher does not know what to do (and ask for specifics here, he/she might not know the right things to do) BUT you run the show as detailed above (some principals have no idea how to address bullying and actually make things worse for the victim) in the meeting.

Baseball team, a very casual word with the coach, who is the leader in that location. If he shows the slightest distaste for the problem, I advise to immediately backtrack and tell him there's nothing here he has to take action on (in case he himself is a bullying *-head who would make things worse). Then you and your hubs are going to have to have The Talk with your son about what to do with a bully including if it goes physical.

A good coach and a good teacher create an environment of we-have-each-other's-back, no infighting or bullying or garbage allowed. Yep, we may have some people who we aren't individually crazy about but they are still OURS. Loyalty, nothing less. Every now and then I'd get a bully student who of course came equipped with a bully parent. One of the ways I stopped bullying was the first 2 weeks of school I never left the kids except to use the bathroom. I knew each one of them and their dynamics. If I did have a bully, I attached myself to that kid like a remora or a bad cold. If they wanted me out of their space, they had to be nice. Nice meant I didn't sit by them to eat my lunch. Mean to other kids? Meet your best lunchtime pal! Schools where the teachers are willing to spend breaks and lunchtimes out with the kids have a lot less bullying. I include this for parents who see a bullying issue to see if the teacher ever eats with the kids, do they go out during recess with the kids, etc. etc.

Of course, the biggest problems are the teacher-bullies. They do exist, its how they exact their own brand of discipline, and they just enjoy it.If your child is ever in one of those classes, get them out.
 

SB621

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
7,863
I got nothing for you Yenny just hugs from afar! I wish I could provide more insight but I'm lost myself on something similar to this.
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
4,697
Yenny, I feel your pain! DD went through very similar experiences. Middle school was the worst and she and I were counting down the days including the last year where we had an app that told us each day how many days were left. High School has been much better. Still can be very "exclusive" but the population increased and there move opportunities to meet new people versus the ones she had been in school with for 8 years. Hope things start to improve, your DS sounds like a trooper!
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
Thanks azstonie! Your perspective/advice are valuable!

SB and Mayk, thanks for the cyber hugs, I need them. This is so hard...wanting to help but not knowing the best way to do so....it stinks! We have a couple of years left with these kids, so doing nothing may not be an option. :(
 

TooPatient

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
9,984
Physical bullying is NOT okay. The rest of what you've described, I'd leave alone. Talk to your son about how some people behave this way and encourage him to be the polite kid who tries to welcome others. Don't approach them (or their parents since that is who taught them...) and think it will do any good.

"A" had a girl she was friends with who was nothing more than a big bully. It took her being in a different school with people who became actual friends to see how this person was treating her. You may not have the option of changing schools now, but will they be going into middle school next year? If so, there should be a bunch more kids and he'll see these others less often.

FWIW, I was the quiet one on the playground. People threw balls at my face routinely. I was spit on, pushed, ignored, taunted, you name it. Every day. That was all through 5th grade. The teachers were (usually) kind enough to allow me to do group projects by myself or let me help them in the classroom during recess sometimes. That gave me a bit of a break from the people doing that stuff. The couple of times my mother tried to be an actual parent (after yet another bloody nose and need to get glasses bent back into shape!) it only made it worse for me.

Middle school brought in a bunch of new kids. I saw some of the others around but not all of them and much less often. There were other quiet kids from other schools who came to the middle school. We became friends. I still had a few people (okay, lots) who would tease me but it became less frequent and (except for a couple of times) wasn't physical anymore.

High school was even better for me. Even more quiet people from other schools came in and I was able to take electives that interested me. I met other kids in those classes who liked the subject too. There was still teasing and unfriendliness around, but there were a lot of people who weren't that way.
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
12,239
Hi Yenny:

I feel you. My son went through that in 5th grade too. However, these were friends that suddenly decided to turn on him, as a group. I tried a group outing. Didn't help. I spoke to two of the moms cause I knew them pretty well personally. One was receptive, though it didn't help much with her son's behavior. The other mother I knew even better, and the talk did NOT help.

Luckily, my son is usually happy-go-lucky, and worked hard to find other friends to hang out with until the transition to middle school. The second he got into sixth grade, he found cool new friends that accepted him as he was.

My biggest challenge was to help my son understand that it wasn't his issue. It was the other kids' problems, be it coming from recently divorced parents, kids with a mean streak because of being the shortest one in the class, other kids that are being bullied at home, or just going with the pack mentality of emotional bullying. Each kid had his own issue and was taking it out on my son. There was nothing wrong my kid. It took him a while, but he understands it better, and he is learning not to let other people's issues affect his life.

Now his friends are much better adjusted, happy, accepting, active and good-natured kids. He learned that he wasn't happy being in the group of kids that like to sit back and laugh and tease others. He is finding his place, learning how to move on when one thing isn't working.

I know it's hard Yenny. Physical bullying is never, never acceptable. It's hard to control what others say and do and feel. A lot of it is a product of their home, and how these kids feel about themselves. Is there a way to find an activity that he can join where he is much more accepted and among others with his temperment? My son joined martial arts, and he met tons of boys that were bullied in school. These boys were all kind, and accepting, and good natured people from families that cared about them greatly. He found a huge sense of community and commraderie with these kids and it helped him feel like he had an outlet.

Keep us updated on how it goes, and what solution works for you and your son.

BIG HUG TO YOU AND YOUR SON...
 

purplesparklies

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
743
I am sorry your son is dealing with this. It is too common, unfortunately. I have a nine-year old son. It can be a tricky age. My son is very independent and it doesn't bother him in the slightest if a kid chooses not to play with him. Thankfully, he has a core group of buddies who stick together.

I would not encourage him to try to get these kids to play with him or warm-up with him. I would tell him to be positive and friendly. Maybe ask the one time upon arrival at practice but not to push it. If the kid says they want to wait for someone else, "okay. See you on the field." Often, these kids gain power by making other kids feel small. Never let them see that it bothers him. They may start to see him differently if he remains confident and upbeat.

As to his friends, we talk a lot about being a true friend and knowing who your true friends are. My boys are 9 and 13. This is an important lesson as they all begin to jockey for position. Do not worry about who the cool kids are. Find a couple of true friends and be a true friend back. Don't invest time and effort into a friendship with someone who doesn't invest time and effort with you. There are rocky years ahead. I want my boys to have true friends to help them through the difficult times.

I know it is hard to watch all of it go on and I know you want to fix it. If there is true bullying happening, I would address it with teachers, principals and coaches. Good ones will keep an eye out and steer kids in the right direction.

Good luck.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
TooPatient|1409317942|3741311 said:
Physical bullying is NOT okay. The rest of what you've described, I'd leave alone. Talk to your son about how some people behave this way and encourage him to be the polite kid who tries to welcome others. Don't approach them (or their parents since that is who taught them...) and think it will do any good.

"A" had a girl she was friends with who was nothing more than a big bully. It took her being in a different school with people who became actual friends to see how this person was treating her. You may not have the option of changing schools now, but will they be going into middle school next year? If so, there should be a bunch more kids and he'll see these others less often.

FWIW, I was the quiet one on the playground. People threw balls at my face routinely. I was spit on, pushed, ignored, taunted, you name it. Every day. That was all through 5th grade. The teachers were (usually) kind enough to allow me to do group projects by myself or let me help them in the classroom during recess sometimes. That gave me a bit of a break from the people doing that stuff. The couple of times my mother tried to be an actual parent (after yet another bloody nose and need to get glasses bent back into shape!) it only made it worse for me.

Middle school brought in a bunch of new kids. I saw some of the others around but not all of them and much less often. There were other quiet kids from other schools who came to the middle school. We became friends. I still had a few people (okay, lots) who would tease me but it became less frequent and (except for a couple of times) wasn't physical anymore.

High school was even better for me. Even more quiet people from other schools came in and I was able to take electives that interested me. I met other kids in those classes who liked the subject too. There was still teasing and unfriendliness around, but there were a lot of people who weren't that way.

TooPatient, I'm so sorry that you had to deal with this as a child! How awful! I'm so glad that you had some teachers who looked out for you and that middle/high school improved for you. DS is only in 4th grade, so we basically have two years left with this group of kids. :(sad I plan to talk to the counselor to see if maybe she can do a lesson in class about being kind to one another even if you aren't going to be best friend with everyone....can't hurt, right??
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
LLJsmom|1409326581|3741439 said:
Hi Yenny:

I feel you. My son went through that in 5th grade too. However, these were friends that suddenly decided to turn on him, as a group. I tried a group outing. Didn't help. I spoke to two of the moms cause I knew them pretty well personally. One was receptive, though it didn't help much with her son's behavior. The other mother I knew even better, and the talk did NOT help.

Luckily, my son is usually happy-go-lucky, and worked hard to find other friends to hang out with until the transition to middle school. The second he got into sixth grade, he found cool new friends that accepted him as he was.

My biggest challenge was to help my son understand that it wasn't his issue. It was the other kids' problems, be it coming from recently divorced parents, kids with a mean streak because of being the shortest one in the class, other kids that are being bullied at home, or just going with the pack mentality of emotional bullying. Each kid had his own issue and was taking it out on my son. There was nothing wrong my kid. It took him a while, but he understands it better, and he is learning not to let other people's issues affect his life.

Now his friends are much better adjusted, happy, accepting, active and good-natured kids. He learned that he wasn't happy being in the group of kids that like to sit back and laugh and tease others. He is finding his place, learning how to move on when one thing isn't working.

I know it's hard Yenny. Physical bullying is never, never acceptable. It's hard to control what others say and do and feel. A lot of it is a product of their home, and how these kids feel about themselves. Is there a way to find an activity that he can join where he is much more accepted and among others with his temperment? My son joined martial arts, and he met tons of boys that were bullied in school. These boys were all kind, and accepting, and good natured people from families that cared about them greatly. He found a huge sense of community and commraderie with these kids and it helped him feel like he had an outlet.

Keep us updated on how it goes, and what solution works for you and your son.

BIG HUG TO YOU AND YOUR SON...

Thanks LLJsMom...it seems that this is a very common thing. I'm not saying that my kid has never done anything wrong (he has done plenty!!), but to the best of my knowledge, he's never been deliberately mean to anyone. He's the first kid to welcome a new guy on his baseball team and the first to notice that someone isn't playing and go over and ask them to join in. Most of the kids on his baseball team are nice (other than Nick), and we certainly spend a lot of time at baseball, so hopefully, that will be enough of a safe place to kind of "offset" how he's feeling at school. I still think that if we were to stand up to these kids (ie: "what's your problem with me, why can't we all play soccer together, etc.) just once, things would change.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
purplesparklies|1409327331|3741445 said:
I am sorry your son is dealing with this. It is too common, unfortunately. I have a nine-year old son. It can be a tricky age. My son is very independent and it doesn't bother him in the slightest if a kid chooses not to play with him. Thankfully, he has a core group of buddies who stick together.

I would not encourage him to try to get these kids to play with him or warm-up with him. I would tell him to be positive and friendly. Maybe ask the one time upon arrival at practice but not to push it. If the kid says they want to wait for someone else, "okay. See you on the field." Often, these kids gain power by making other kids feel small. Never let them see that it bothers him. They may start to see him differently if he remains confident and upbeat.

As to his friends, we talk a lot about being a true friend and knowing who your true friends are. My boys are 9 and 13. This is an important lesson as they all begin to jockey for position. Do not worry about who the cool kids are. Find a couple of true friends and be a true friend back. Don't invest time and effort into a friendship with someone who doesn't invest time and effort with you. There are rocky years ahead. I want my boys to have true friends to help them through the difficult times.

I know it is hard to watch all of it go on and I know you want to fix it. If there is true bullying happening, I would address it with teachers, principals and coaches. Good ones will keep an eye out and steer kids in the right direction.

Good luck.

Thanks purplesparklies. I agree that I don't want my son to be friends with these kids, nor do I want to force it, but I do think that being civil is a reasonable expectation. I also agree that not letting anyone see that he's hurt/upset would go a long way...we are working on it. We also talk a lot about why these kids are mean (insecure, etc.) and how he will meet people like that throughout his lifetime and that it's how he deals with it that makes a difference. I just know that how we help him through this first "speed bump" is critical and I'm so afraid to steer him in the wrong direction. Ugh! :???:
 

Harpertoo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
613
I have to agree it's the parents' job to teach and model respectful, kind, inclusive behavior. And unfortunately I think intervening on your child's behalf will do little to change the other kid's behavior.

My daughter has had an easy time with friendships so far, but I have noticed some of the girls trying out snarkier language lately and at age 8 I think it's just a matter of time before some bully/mean-girl type behaviors occur. Some mom's in our neighborhood encouraged the girls to form a summer book club and one of the books chosen was Wonder by R. J. Palacio. It was a great segue to discussions of empathy, bullying, etc...I think my daughter's school does a great job of introducing the topics from an early grade and providing programs and groups to encourage multi grade interactions and inclusiveness, but I really believe it primarily needs to come from the parents/home.

One strategy a friend of mine employed with her HS age daughter was increasing the alternative extracurriculars. When she was skiing with a club or horseback riding with other kids she was forming supportive friendships that helped her overcome the occasional bad times with kids at school. It's sort of the multi-leg approach.

Good luck - I know feeling your child is being ill-treated is heart wrenching.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
Harpertoo|1409328842|3741456 said:
I have to agree it's the parents' job to teach and model respectful, kind, inclusive behavior. And unfortunately I think intervening on your child's behalf will do little to change the other kid's behavior.

My daughter has had an easy time with friendships so far, but I have noticed some of the girls trying out snarkier language lately and at age 8 I think it's just a matter of time before some bully/mean-girl type behaviors occur. Some mom's in our neighborhood encouraged the girls to form a summer book club and one of the books chosen was Wonder by R. J. Palacio. It was a great segue to discussions of empathy, bullying, etc...I think my daughter's school does a great job of introducing the topics from an early grade and providing programs and groups to encourage multi grade interactions and inclusiveness, but I really believe it primarily needs to come from the parents/home.

One strategy a friend of mine employed with her HS age daughter was increasing the alternative extracurriculars. When she was skiing with a club or horseback riding with other kids she was forming supportive friendships that helped her overcome the occasional bad times with kids at school. It's sort of the multi-leg approach.

Good luck - I know feeling your child is being ill-treated is heart wrenching.

Thanks harpertoo! I helps to know I'm not alone. I'm terrified about what to expect with my daughter, since I can only imagine that girls are worse than boys in this particular arena! I like your friend's strategy. We already do chess, baseball and Hebrew school, so there's not room for more, but I can certainly encourage him to invite the kids he likes from chess club/baseball team over to hang out!
 

luvsdmb

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
815
I read your post and feel for you. I try telling my kids that in 10 years these kids will mean nothing to them so try not to let it get to them to much. I know that's hard for a kid. But it seems to work, my youngest is just like whatever when it comes to those certain type of people that you are describing. I am still friends with three people I was in middle school with, I also try explaining you will know who your true friends are, and they can see how I am still friends with them and our pictures from way back when.
I work with a lady whose daughter killed herself because of bullying(her parent's had no idea) and I have another person close to us that recently tried to overdose who is the same age as my daughter. So I say yes talk to the parents if you see it's bad. I also believe that staying away from people like that boy that hurt's your sons feelings is a good idea. I wouldn't take that little brat anywhere.
 

Boatluvr

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
105
Hi Yenny,

You have gotten some really good advice from the other posters. I just wanted to chime in and say 'hang in there'. I have three sons and grades 5 - 7 were particularly difficult. It kind of depends on the child's personality on how they each dealt with being 'on the fringe' not quite popular, not quite a total outsider. Keep him involved in sports - especially those sports that give him the chance to make friends outside of the normal school circle. I used to coach my son's soccer team - basically so I could have some control over all of the kids. Well, I also liked coaching. I would definitely report any physical/mental abuse that occurs on school grounds to the school. If it's controlled in that environment, the bullies will be a bit more cautious about bullying anywhere because they come to realize they have to pay for that kind of behavior. It's particularly hard if you son is on the smaller side - all three of mine were until their late teens.

The good news is (I think), most kids will develop their own circle by around the 8th grade and probably go through high school with those friends. My sons are still friends with some of their high school buddies (and that was a long time ago).

And, as another poster mentioned - I'd be damned if I would drive that brat to practice! If you can't act like a team mate, find another mode of transportation.

Good luck - most kids go through this (unfortunately).
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
I was bullied in JR. high, solution?...kick the bully's butt!...problem solved! ... :praise:
 

Asscherhalo_lover

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
5,338
I've seen this plenty with my twin brothers who are now 11. I told them flat out that the other kids were mean kids and not to hang out with them. If it's a matter of not having other kids to hang with maybe you could look into something like boy scouts or classes outside of sports for your son to do where he could meet new kids. Whatever you do, this is just part of growing up. This is also a good opportunity for your son to read some books where kids deal with similar situation. Reading helped me work through a lot when I was younger. Kids can be more receptive to something they read since they feel like they are discovering it on their own rather than being told by their parent. I'm not talking about obvious bullying books, no self help needed, but fiction stories that deal with it.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
luvsdmb|1409330835|3741477 said:
I read your post and feel for you. I try telling my kids that in 10 years these kids will mean nothing to them so try not to let it get to them to much. I know that's hard for a kid. But it seems to work, my youngest is just like whatever when it comes to those certain type of people that you are describing. I am still friends with three people I was in middle school with, I also try explaining you will know who your true friends are, and they can see how I am still friends with them and our pictures from way back when.
I work with a lady whose daughter killed herself because of bullying(her parent's had no idea) and I have another person close to us that recently tried to overdose who is the same age as my daughter. So I say yes talk to the parents if you see it's bad. I also believe that staying away from people like that boy that hurt's your sons feelings is a good idea. I wouldn't take that little brat anywhere.

Thanks luvsdmb.....that's also good advice. Yeah, I'm going to try to avoid carpool, even though it helps me when DH is out of town not to have to drag DD across town to pick him up at 8:00....oh well!

DF, your advice is similar to most men's, lol! Good for you for sticking up for yourself!!
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,823
Boatluvr|1409332137|3741500 said:
Hi Yenny,

You have gotten some really good advice from the other posters. I just wanted to chime in and say 'hang in there'. I have three sons and grades 5 - 7 were particularly difficult. It kind of depends on the child's personality on how they each dealt with being 'on the fringe' not quite popular, not quite a total outsider. Keep him involved in sports - especially those sports that give him the chance to make friends outside of the normal school circle. I used to coach my son's soccer team - basically so I could have some control over all of the kids. Well, I also liked coaching. I would definitely report any physical/mental abuse that occurs on school grounds to the school. If it's controlled in that environment, the bullies will be a bit more cautious about bullying anywhere because they come to realize they have to pay for that kind of behavior. It's particularly hard if you son is on the smaller side - all three of mine were until their late teens.

The good news is (I think), most kids will develop their own circle by around the 8th grade and probably go through high school with those friends. My sons are still friends with some of their high school buddies (and that was a long time ago).

And, as another poster mentioned - I'd be damned if I would drive that brat to practice! If you can't act like a team mate, find another mode of transportation.

Good luck - most kids go through this (unfortunately).

Thanks boatluvr! I do hope that it calms down a bit by middle school. At least he'll meet some new kids, as we merge with 2 other elementary schools when they head to middle school. My son is actually tall for his age and pretty athletic. I do wonder if some of the problems stem from jealously. He's a pretty decent all around athlete and perhaps some of the boys feel threatened by him? He does tend to play to win and can be competitive, so maybe he needs to tone it down a bit??
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top