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Words some people still use that most find offensive...

momhappy

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EvangelineG|1428434073|3858097 said:
House Cat|1428427563|3858033 said:
It is this very human experience that makes me completely intolerant to any stigma toward the mentally ill. Calling someone "psycho" or "crazy" is minimizing what is happening to these people. When someone goes psychotic, there is a good chance that they will lose everything. I used to be a part of a message board like this for people with mental illness. Many times when a spouse would go psychotic, the other spouse found that fact overwhelming, would try to hold on for a while, but would eventually divorce. Not that the psychosis was a permanent condition, but the mental illness was. People who have less than a marriage and go psychotic lose jobs, family, custody of children, houses and most of all faith in themselves. Trusting in your gut?? Nope, never again. Trust in your own judgment? Probably not for a very long time. So, to make light of "psycho" is just too much for me because it is making fun of losing everything, especially the self. On a personal note, I have been recovering from my episode for 11 years now and I STILL have a very long way to go and I work VERY hard at it. I didn't lose my loved ones and had a lot of support, I can't imagine what it would be like for those who don't have what I have.

When mental illness is made fun of and stigmatized, it keeps people from seeking help. When people with mental illness don't seek help, suicide is a possibility.

Making fun of the homeless is another thing that I can't abide, considering most of them are suffering mental illness of some kind.

Saying that you're OCD because you like your house clean is one that is really upsetting. OCD is such a debilitating illness. The sufferers are prisoners of their own thoughts. I get a taste of this every once in a while because people with bipolar disorder have obsessive and unwanted thoughts, especially if trauma is involved. My last stint with this symptom involved me being petrified that there would be a school shooting at my son's school. I could hardly drop him off at school. Each day, I would circle his school in my car and pray. Then I would come home, sit at the kitchen table petrified, wringing my hands until it was time to pick him up. These thoughts overwhelmed me, took over my life for months! If I had OCD, I would be more ritualistic in my soothing.

This was so very, very well said.

I would also like to add using the term autistic or aspie as the newest form of "retarded" or "psycho". Or using either term to off handedly describe a neuro-typical person's mild social struggles/lack of emotion/quirkiness. Not cool.

I have never heard of someone using the terms autistic and/or aspie unless they have actually been diagnosed as such. Do people do that?
 

chrono

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This is getting much too complicated. Why not just say "Canadian"? What if the person's lineage is from Africa (several generations removed) but is born in Canada? Why would race even matter in the description?
 

Jambalaya

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We can describe someone as just Canadian, of course. But in telephone's example, she had referred to someone as Asian, and her friend's mother had got upset, I got a little lost as to why, but I think it was to do with heritage, and she was talking about how her Canadian partner felt about this matter. And there are so many forms to fill out where they ask you about your race (I always find this offensive. What does it matter?) - and also, when you phone the police because there's a group fight going on outside the 7-11, say, they always ask you about the race of the people you're calling about.

So maybe the answer is never to identify someone by their heritage. The couple of times I've called police, I've been very reluctant to describe the person in terms of race, preferring just to say "five foot eight with brown eyes and brown hair, wearing a green jacket" but I was pressed. Wasn't there a thread a while back about asking someone where they come from? If I ever ask this, I literally just mean what state or city did they grow up in, but apparently that question can be loaded, too.
 

blackprophet

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Chrono|1428435016|3858108 said:
This is getting much too complicated. Why not just say "Canadian"? What if the person's lineage is from Africa (several generations removed) but is born in Canada? Why would race even matter in the description?

A very large percentage on Canadians emigrated here in the last 50 years. As well, Canada (and as well Canadians) value multiculturalism and as a result where your ancestors came from is closely tied to Canadian identity. Very different from melting pot values of The US.

I was glad to hear the Canadian perspective, because it is unique. I would add some thoughts on telephone's post.

Brown, used to describe people of south east Asian descent, I've found to be very young Canadian term. Even my mom who has lived here for 30 years never heard it till very recently. However she thinks anyone who is not white is black. (Don't ask :rolleyes: )

Most of the Jamaicans I know don't want to be called African American because they see being African as something negative. Its a hold back of the slave mentality that Africans are backwards, savages, and stupid. That is the reason the term African American came into being to:
1) Acknowledge that black people did not chose to move to America, but were forcefully brought here and
2) To combat that stigma against Africans from Africa
I had never heard for African american offending anyone (other than Jamaican's), so it was very interesting to see that in this thread. I love being called the term , despite being born in Canada to Caribbean parents. But that has a lot to do with how I was raised.

Its interesting because my FI and I were just talking about the biracial issue. My normal instinct is that biracial (black and something else) people are black. But that is also a slave mentality (one drop of black blood in you makes you black). But I have recently made friends with a biracial person and she has been challenging my mindset. As well, I am trying to be big on "you are what you think you are" even if that challenges my long-standing beliefs. And it has been challenging.
 

missy

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Thank you everyone who has contributed so far. Lots of thoughtful posts and helpful sharing.

Deb, to echo Circe, that was awesome! Thanks for sharing that and please threadjack away. I love all your stories and find them delightful and never consider them threadjacks anyway.

Circe, huge ditto and I loathe all those terms too.

Rainydaze, thank you. And I agree with you in that much of the time the words we choose to use say more about us than the people to whom we are referring. And I hate when people use those words too. The C word etc. I find them distasteful.

Ricezo, I know and I find that upsetting as well.

dk, I don't love the word Oriental used to refer to people but I have no problem when it is being used to refer to an object like a rug. From my understanding the word Oriental is associated with a time period when Asians had a subordinate status (in the USA) and it’s never been widely used by people of Asian descent to describe themselves. It's a Eurocentric name and instead I prefer to call people what they call themselves. I believe NY and Washington passed bans on using the word on official documents and government forms. Thank you though for sharing your POV. I appreciate that and it is good to know you do not find it offensive.

Jambalaya, if I am not sure I ask. I have many friends of all different backgrounds and I feel close enough to them to just ask them what they prefer. Sometimes there is no right or wrong but the last thing I ever want to do is offend anybody and that is why I started this thread. To find out what others feel is appropriate and inappropriate and none of us are perfect and there is always room to learn. Words can be so powerful and while of course we give them the power it is not so easy to just ignore things that can be hurtful. That rhyme "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me" I don't agree with. They can hurt and it is hard to ignore hurtful words sometimes though who is saying them makes all the difference.

HouseCat, I am so sorry for all you have been and all you continue to go through and thank you for sharing your story to better help us understand why we should be careful with our words. I completely agree that minimizing serious experiences and feelings are harmful and prevents others from getting the help they need and hurtful to those dealing with real issues. I am very glad you are doing so well and have a supportive network of loved ones. (((Hugs))).

Telephone, thank you for sharing your story too. It is quite a complex issue and sometimes it is not clear what the best term/word is to use and in that case if I feel close enough to the person I will simply ask. The last thing I want to be is insensitive so when in doubt I keep quiet or ask depending on my relationship with the person.

momhappy, I didn't think you deliberately wanted to offend and I also did not care for the way some posters attacked you as I do not support bullying of any kind whatsoever. However I did feel that you were less than sensitive with some of your replies to them which left a bit of doubt so thank you for clearing that up. As I wrote I find bullying unacceptable in any way shape or form and that is why I wanted to start this thread to see if communicating about this sensitive topic could be helpful for us all.

Arcadian, yes, that is exactly what many of my friends say too and that makes 100% sense.

Part Gypsy and Lady Disdain, I always think it is due to ignorance unless proven otherwise. As I wrote none of us and me included are perfect and we all have things to learn. I want to hear what others think and why. Knowledge truly is power.

Evangeline, I totally agree. That is not cool.

Too Patient, I learn from my friends of different backgrounds and cultures as to what they find acceptable and what they do not like. It is not always universal as this thread clearly shows.

Chrono, Yes, I know. If someone has been in their country for generation after generation don't they first consider themselves American or Canadian etc...

Black Prophet, thanks for sharing your perspective on the term African American and that was mine as well and this thread is opening up different thoughts and ideas to me and I appreciate learning about them all. I have a few biracial friends and that is personally how they refer to themselves as. Biracial. Not black not white. It is complicated and I am always respectful of whatever those preferences are. To me the term biracial makes the most sense if the person's mom is one race and the dad is another. It becomes complicated if their parents are of mixed race as well. However again I default to that individual's preference.

I find that communication is key to understanding and acceptance of people who are different in whatever way. I think that fear drives intolerance and prejudice and ignorance plays a large part so anything that can bring questions about difficult issues out in the open is always a good thing from my point of view. As long as we are respectful and open to others thoughts and feelings we can learn so much.
 

AGBF

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telephone89|1428429843|3858064 said:
Story time! I grew up in a very culturally diverse area. I am white, but now live with my long time brown partner. Where I live, brown is a blanket term for middle eastern heritage, ie pakistan, afghanistan, india, etc, but I understand in some parts of the states it comes to mean more latin heritage (mexican, south america, etc).

In the part of the US where I live no one uses the term "brown". People ar called "black" or African-American" or they are called "Latino/Latina" or "Hispanic". Or they are called "white" or "Caucasian" or they can be called "Asian", "Indian", "Oriental", etc. My daughter's generation has started to divide people into "white" and "non-white" with anyone who is not of European descent being "non-white". That is a brand new concept to me. As is the idea that being Hispanic is a race. In my opinion, race is being black or white (or a mixture). Hispanic is one's ethnic and social heritage and one can be Hispanic no matter what color one's skin is. Sometimes my head spins.

AGBF
 

TooPatient

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Missy -- I had never thought to ask. I like that idea for people you are close to.

I guess I should clarify my post a bit. It isn't like I sit all awkward and don't talk to people from different cultures. Far from it! It just isn't often that the topic comes up. 99% of the time it is just "Lora is great... Yeah, she is Jamie's mom" or whatever. The people I talk with all generally know each other and race, religion, whatever aren't even brought up. The cool thing is that people don't forget their cultures, they actually proudly share with everyone. (So talks about delicious traditional cookies or spectacular meals.)

I grew up with very little diversity and the couple of "different" people were considered weird. I guess maybe that is why I just don't care to label people or make anyone uncomfortable because I have seen that. Much happier here where a person is a person but can still be proud and express their unique cultures.


Sorry for the ramble. Not sure if that clarified or made it more confused...
 

VapidLapid

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Since the question is about language, not necessarily about racist language, I would like to say, I hate when people use the word "discourse" as a verb. Immediately it tells me that they are pretentious poseurs who go out of their way to sound intelligent since they are unable to be intelligent
 

telephone89

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AGBF|1428437380|3858133 said:
telephone89|1428429843|3858064 said:
Story time! I grew up in a very culturally diverse area. I am white, but now live with my long time brown partner. Where I live, brown is a blanket term for middle eastern heritage, ie pakistan, afghanistan, india, etc, but I understand in some parts of the states it comes to mean more latin heritage (mexican, south america, etc).

In the part of the US where I live no one uses the term "brown". People ar called "black" or African-American" or they are called "Latino/Latina" or "Hispanic". Or they are called "white" or "Caucasian" or they can be called "Asian", "Indian", "Oriental", etc. My daughter's generation has started to divide people into "white" and "non-white" with anyone who is not of European descent being "non-white". That is a brand new concept to me. As is the idea that being Hispanic is a race. In my opinion, race is being black or white (or a mixture). Hispanic is one's ethnic and social heritage and one can be Hispanic no matter what color one's skin is. Sometimes my head spins.

AGBF
I've heard it used mainly on TV - for example in AZ a few years back when there was alot of controversy with the mexican immigrants - people would say it was targeting folks with brown skin, or brown people - apologies if that is not correct!

blackprophet, thank you for chiming in! It does seem true that the folks I know who do not like being called african ARE jamaican. I think that's an interesting point, that they are trying to differentiate themselves.

I feel like, as Canadians (in general), we like to celebrate where we are from - but for all cultures. For example, how many Americans (and uh, every other culture) suddenly know their great great greatgreatgreatgreat grandfather was 1/32 Irish on St. Patricks day? Very popular to celebrate that heritage, but some of the others fall by the wayside. This isnt race specific of course, just a generalization on why we dont just call each other Canadian. We are, of course, but still like to be special in our own way LOL.
 

missy

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Too Patient, I totally understand what you are saying and that's how I feel too. A person is a person and I never think that person A is a black person or a Jewish person no what first comes to my mind is person A is a kind and generous person with a good sense of humor. Only bringing this topic up because of momhappy's thread and I thought we could share thoughts about that here in a safe environment and learn more about each other if that makes sense.

Vapid, haha yes absolutely. Also when they use that word for some reason my mind goes right to the word intercourse. I mean they do sort of rhyme right? Yup my mind is in the gutter sometimes lol. :cheeky:

Deb, there are certainly lots of options and it can and often does make my head spin. My main concern is always that I do not want to offend anybody but I also feel as long as your heart is in the right place most people will not be offended.
 

telephone89

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Back on topic...

There are actually very few words that I am offended by. I am more offended by the intent rather than the actual word. As I stated in my first post, it is very difficult to know what will/wont offend people. So I try to assume that in general people mean no harm by what the word they choose.
 

packrat

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Even if your heart is in the right place, someone will still be offended, hon.

ha! See what I did there?!
 

missy

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telephone89|1428441834|3858161 said:
Back on topic...

There are actually very few words that I am offended by. I am more offended by the intent rather than the actual word. As I stated in my first post, it is very difficult to know what will/wont offend people. So I try to assume that in general people mean no harm by what the word they choose.

Absolutely. If you mean well and your intent is good I agree completely. The words are less meaningful then though words are still important and it is helpful to find the right ones to express your true meaning. Most people can realize the difference. When something is said with maliciousness and/or hate vs good intent.
 

missy

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packrat|1428442028|3858163 said:
Even if your heart is in the right place, someone will still be offended, hon.

ha! See what I did there?!

Hahaha. Love you packrat.
 

packrat

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I feel we would be much better off to revert to a system of hoots and clicks for speaking. Or we need to learn to communicate telepathically b/c pretty much anymore when we open our mouths, we are in danger of offending someone, somewhere. We should just not speak to one another, but rather give everyone the side eye of suspicion.
 

packrat

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missy|1428442124|3858166 said:
packrat|1428442028|3858163 said:
Even if your heart is in the right place, someone will still be offended, hon.

ha! See what I did there?!

Hahaha. Love you packrat.


Oh whew, I was hoping you would get that!
 

missy

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packrat|1428442169|3858167 said:
I feel we would be much better off to revert to a system of hoots and clicks for speaking. Or we need to learn to communicate telepathically b/c pretty much anymore when we open our mouths, we are in danger of offending someone, somewhere. We should just not speak to one another, but rather give everyone the side eye of suspicion.

No you cannot please everyone all the time but you can be sensitive to certain terms/words and do the best you can. It does come down to education and sensitivity and yes intent. So really if you take all 3 into account you will do pretty well IMO. But yeah, I do agree with what you wrote to a certain extent. Sometimes I feel we are overly PC yet other times I feel we are not sensitive enough. It just depends on the situation.

Which brings me to VRBeauty's point. I specifically chose the word "most" because otherwise you can go crazy with all the options and I was trying to find out what ticked off the greatest number of people. There are always exceptions of course but that is how I chose to word the thread. Hope I didn't offend anyone... :cheeky: ::)
 

jaysonsmom

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This one has not been mentioned...I get extremely miffed when people curse or exclaim using religious references, and it's usually those that are oblivious that it is offensive to Christians to hear the Lord's name spewed out for anything and everything that's gone south.

Oh Geez!!!! (came from the Jesus)
Oh my G-d!!!!!
For Ch---st's sake!!!!
Worst offense: Jeesus (f-ing) C....!

I can't even write them out, it makes me cringe. I hear it all around my work place, and even from my own husband's mouth sometimes!
 

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Ah, language and communication... It is so hard to remove offensive, stereotypical, etc, words and concepts. Sometimes, we don't have a better word to communicate a concept or it is quite far removed from the questionable content (or at least, it is far removed in the minds of those not affected by the issue).

For example, "crazy". If I say I had a crazy day (and it involved visiting 5 different bureaucratic institutions,really!), everyone will understand what I say. However, crazy does originate with mental illness. I mean no disrespect to anyone with mental issues (I myself have dysthemia) when I use crazy and using it as a general catch-all for mental illness would never even occur to me. In this case, I see the word itself as not really offensive except in a certain use. "Idiot" has the same problem to me: using it to describe the driver who recklessly and needlessly cut me off is fine, using it as an archaic term for mental issues, is not.

Another thing that bothers me - how far back should we look? Silly has a very religious origin: it meant blessed (in phrases such as the Silly Virgin Mary and I am not kidding. Shakespeare uses it in this sense and there are also later references, I believe). However, no one, today, would ever associate it with anything other than ditzy. At one point, the meaning completely changed. Should we just let some of the original meanings die off? For example, most people are surprised by the origin of gypped. Is it better to just embrace its new meaning or to bring up the offensive origin?

Ok, not very coherent but I find this a very complex subject.
 

VapidLapid

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Sometimes, it may be a person's intention to offend.
 

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jaysonsmom|1428448090|3858226 said:
This one has not been mentioned...I get extremely miffed when people curse or exclaim using religious references, and it's usually those that are oblivious that it is offensive to Christians to hear the Lord's name spewed out for anything and everything that's gone south.

Oh Geez!!!! (came from the Jesus)
Oh my G-d!!!!!
For Ch---st's sake!!!!
Worst offense: Jeesus (f-ing) C....!

I can't even write them out, it makes me cringe. I hear it all around my work place, and even from my own husband's mouth sometimes!


I would say it is offensive to some Christians. I know many, many Christians who use those terms and aren't offended. In fact, they originated with Christians, not with atheists or those of other religions.
 

Lady_Disdain

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VapidLapid|1428448949|3858231 said:
Sometimes, it may be a person's intention to offend.

I always prefer to judge by the intention, not the vocabulary. ;)) It is easy to be perfectly offensive using perfectly acceptable language and that is always wrong. It is also possible to use the wrong vocabulary with good intentions.

Sorry, I have little patience for people who are deliberately offensive and aggressive.
 

Niel

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Lady_Disdain|1428448978|3858233 said:
jaysonsmom|1428448090|3858226 said:
This one has not been mentioned...I get extremely miffed when people curse or exclaim using religious references, and it's usually those that are oblivious that it is offensive to Christians to hear the Lord's name spewed out for anything and everything that's gone south.

Oh Geez!!!! (came from the Jesus)
Oh my G-d!!!!!
For Ch---st's sake!!!!
Worst offense: Jeesus (f-ing) C....!

I can't even write them out, it makes me cringe. I hear it all around my work place, and even from my own husband's mouth sometimes!


I would say it is offensive to some Christians. I know many, many Christians who use those terms and aren't offended. In fact, they originated with Christians, not with atheists or those of other religions.


geez?! GEEZ?! whats next? Gosh? Golly? Gee-willickers?

isnt the point of geez to avoid saying bad words?

i try to avoid most words that are offensive, but i cant abide to that one.
 

stracci2000

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I'm originally from Pennsylvania, and was raised hearing all manner of offensive terms for just about everything.
We always said "Geez o Pete's!"
I have never heard this term used anywhere else, but I guess it was to avoid exclaiming "Jesus and Peter!"
I say all kinds of things that are probably inappropriate, but never in mixed company!!
 

AGBF

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I have experienced two unrelated conundra relating to words and what they are meant to encompass. One of them, the word "Hispanic", I alluded to above. The other one is the word "Jewish".

Many members of my family are Jewish. When I was in a graduate school of social work I found myself in an argument with a female African-American/black professor over whether Jews could be considered an ethnic group. She took the position that Judaism was a religion and that Jews were not racially different from other white people. I think she thought that it was racist to say that Jews differed from other whites and, therefore, was steadfast in the position that being a Jew was simply being a member of a religious group.
While it is true that conversion to Judaism is possible, it is unusual and not encouraged as it is in Christianity and Islam. Yet many people with no religious beliefs still identify themselves as Jews.

My position was that being a Jew could be both a religious choice and being a member of an ethnic group. I told her that she couldn't ignore how people defined themselves. (I do not know if I convinced her.)

My other problem is with the word Hispanic. For instance, is my daughter Hispanic? She was born in Colombia, the biological daughter of two South American people. They and their families spoke Spanish and she was still a Colombian citizen, although my daughter, when I brought her to the United States. While I was in Colombia I gathered souvenirs from her country of origin: a huge arpillera; emerald jewelry; a red, cloth, Christmas wreath for our front door. But I didn't know whether to check "Hispanic" or "white" on the social security forms! I think I checked one the first time and the other the second time. (I had to do the form twice since I had to do a new form once she was naturalized as a citizen at 4 months old).

My daughter is very fair and no one ever thought she was Hispanic at her elementary school since there were no black or Hispanic children in the school other than those there because their parents were living in the neighborhood as they did international business.
When she is in normal places, however, sometimes someone tries to speak to her in Spanish. In other words she looks Hispanic enough that she might be a Latina. (This might occur at McDonald's for example.) This leads me to feel I don't have to say she is Hispanic.

But one of my good friends adopted her son from Bolivia and he is 100% Quechua (Inca). No one will ever look at him and NOT think "INDIAN!". (On top of being very ethnically distinctive he is tall, broad, and extraordinarily handsome. No one will overlook him, either.)

There is a vast difference between being Hispanic-if-you-want and being Hispanic-because-everyone-notices-instantly.

I know I am rambling. Feedback is welcome, even if I cannot absorb it until tomorrow morning!!!

AGBF
 

missy

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Niel|1428450260|3858243 said:
Lady_Disdain|1428448978|3858233 said:
jaysonsmom|1428448090|3858226 said:
This one has not been mentioned...I get extremely miffed when people curse or exclaim using religious references, and it's usually those that are oblivious that it is offensive to Christians to hear the Lord's name spewed out for anything and everything that's gone south.

Oh Geez!!!! (came from the Jesus)
Oh my G-d!!!!!
For Ch---st's sake!!!!
Worst offense: Jeesus (f-ing) C....!

I can't even write them out, it makes me cringe. I hear it all around my work place, and even from my own husband's mouth sometimes!


I would say it is offensive to some Christians. I know many, many Christians who use those terms and aren't offended. In fact, they originated with Christians, not with atheists or those of other religions.


geez?! GEEZ?! whats next? Gosh? Golly? Gee-willickers?

isnt the point of geez to avoid saying bad words?

i try to avoid most words that are offensive, but i cant abide to that one.

OK just looked up a few of those words including golly and oh my goodness. Both are derivations of the word G-d. I kid you not. I say Oh my goodness all the time to avoid saying something offensive. Little did I know those terms can be offensive to some. Oy vey.

Niel, I'm with you though in that I will continue to use the OMG (for oh my goodness) and other such terms for lack of a better descriptive word. I think most understand I use it with no disrespect intended. I do avoid using exclamatory words with J***S and C****t in it though as I know that is offensive to more people and I understand the reasoning behind it.


AGBF said:
I have experienced two unrelated conundra relating to words and what they are meant to encompass. One of them, the word "Hispanic", I alluded to above. The other one is the word "Jewish".

Many members of my family are Jewish. When I was in a graduate school of social work I found myself in an argument with a female African-American/black professor over whether Jews could be considered an ethnic group. She took the position that Judaism was a religion and that Jews were not racially different from other white people. I think she thought that it was racist to say that Jews differed from other whites and, therefore, was steadfast in the position that being a Jew was simply being a member of a religious group.
While it is true that conversion to Judaism is possible, it is unusual and not encouraged as it is in Christianity and Islam. Yet many people with no religious beliefs still identify themselves as Jews.

My position was that being a Jew could be both a religious choice and being a member of an ethnic group. I told her that she couldn't ignore how people defined themselves. (I do not know if I convinced her.)

My other problem is with the word Hispanic. For instance, is my daughter Hispanic? She was born in Colombia, the biological daughter of two South American people. They and their families spoke Spanish and she was still a Colombian citizen, although my daughter, when I brought her to the United States. While I was in Colombia I gathered souvenirs from her country of origin: a huge arpillera; emerald jewelry; a red, cloth, Christmas wreath for our front door. But I didn't know whether to check "Hispanic" or "white" on the social security forms! I think I checked one the first time and the other the second time. (I had to do the form twice since I had to do a new form once she was naturalized as a citizen at 4 months old).

My daughter is very fair and no one ever thought she was Hispanic at her elementary school since there were no black or Hispanic children in the school other than those there because their parents were living in the neighborhood as they did international business.
When she is in normal places, however, sometimes someone tries to speak to her in Spanish. In other words she looks Hispanic enough that she might be a Latina. (This might occur at McDonald's for example.) This leads me to feel I don't have to say she is Hispanic.

But one of my good friends adopted her son from Bolivia and he is 100% Quechua (Inca). No one will ever look at him and NOT think "INDIAN!". (On top of being very ethnically distinctive he is tall, broad, and extraordinarily handsome. No one will overlook him, either.)

There is a vast difference between being Hispanic-if-you-want and being Hispanic-because-everyone-notices-instantly.

I know I am rambling. Feedback is welcome, even if I cannot absorb it until tomorrow morning!!!

AGBF

Deb, there is a vast difference b/w being a race and looking it and being that race and not looking it. As far as the whole Jewish is it a religion or a religion and a race this is my take on it. I consider it a religion pure and simple.

You can convert into Judaism and once you do you are considered jewish just the same as if you had been born Jewish. One cannot do this with race.

Also, Judaism is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both "Jewish." Ashkenazi Jews are usually from Europe and Sephardic Jews usually from the Middle East. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries but the converse is not true. One cannot convert into a race.

I don't consider being Jewish a nationality because Jews come from all over the world.

Personally, first and foremost I am American. My grandparents were born in the USA and so for the most part were their parents. I have 2 great grandparents from Europe but the rest born here. So not strange that I identify with being a citizen of the USA. I want to say American or North American but lol I realize that could mean other countries. I also consider myself Jewish but that is my religion and even though I am not religious and a secular Jew being Jewish is important to me because it is part of my heritage.

Anyway that's my take on it Deb. Interested to hear more of your thoughts tomorrow.


Vapid, like Lady Disdain I have little patience for those who purposefully want to offend and cause pain or aggravation. That's why I choose nice people to be with and have relationships with. Life is too short, challenging and difficult enough to add unnecessary strife and aggravation.

And I apologize because I use the word Crazy a lot and never thought about the implications of where it came from and what it means. Can anyone help me with a word that conveys the same meaning without the offensive origin? I cannot come up with one yet.
 

VapidLapid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
4,272
The Irish and Canadians are different races?

Aren't they all humans? My great great grandfather was a Canadian, a ship builder in Maitland. His parents came there from Ireland, descended from who knows what, Leprechauns I would guess. I was born in New York. If my racial background isn't simply Human, like everyone else, than I can only be part Leprechaun and part Cracker.
 

VapidLapid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
4,272
missy|1428454872|3858291 said:
Niel|1428450260|3858243 said:
Lady_Disdain|1428448978|3858233 said:
jaysonsmom|1428448090|3858226 said:
This one has not been mentioned...I get extremely miffed when people curse or exclaim using religious references, and it's usually those that are oblivious that it is offensive to Christians to hear the Lord's name spewed out for anything and everything that's gone south.

Oh Geez!!!! (came from the Jesus)
Oh my G-d!!!!!
For Ch---st's sake!!!!
Worst offense: Jeesus (f-ing) C....!

I can't even write them out, it makes me cringe. I hear it all around my work place, and even from my own husband's mouth sometimes!


I would say it is offensive to some Christians. I know many, many Christians who use those terms and aren't offended. In fact, they originated with Christians, not with atheists or those of other religions.


geez?! GEEZ?! whats next? Gosh? Golly? Gee-willickers?

isnt the point of geez to avoid saying bad words?

i try to avoid most words that are offensive, but i cant abide to that one.

OK just looked up a few of those words including golly and oh my goodness. Both are derivations of the word G-d. I kid you not. I say Oh my goodness all the time to avoid saying something offensive. Little did I know those terms can be offensive to some. Oy vey.

Niel, I'm with you though in that I will continue to use the OMG (for oh my goodness) and other such terms for lack of a better descriptive word. I think most understand I use it with no disrespect intended. I do avoid using exclamatory words with J***S and C****t in it though as I know that is offensive to more people and I understand the reasoning behind it.


AGBF said:
I have experienced two unrelated conundra relating to words and what they are meant to encompass. One of them, the word "Hispanic", I alluded to above. The other one is the word "Jewish".

Many members of my family are Jewish. When I was in a graduate school of social work I found myself in an argument with a female African-American/black professor over whether Jews could be considered an ethnic group. She took the position that Judaism was a religion and that Jews were not racially different from other white people. I think she thought that it was racist to say that Jews differed from other whites and, therefore, was steadfast in the position that being a Jew was simply being a member of a religious group.
While it is true that conversion to Judaism is possible, it is unusual and not encouraged as it is in Christianity and Islam. Yet many people with no religious beliefs still identify themselves as Jews.

My position was that being a Jew could be both a religious choice and being a member of an ethnic group. I told her that she couldn't ignore how people defined themselves. (I do not know if I convinced her.)

My other problem is with the word Hispanic. For instance, is my daughter Hispanic? She was born in Colombia, the biological daughter of two South American people. They and their families spoke Spanish and she was still a Colombian citizen, although my daughter, when I brought her to the United States. While I was in Colombia I gathered souvenirs from her country of origin: a huge arpillera; emerald jewelry; a red, cloth, Christmas wreath for our front door. But I didn't know whether to check "Hispanic" or "white" on the social security forms! I think I checked one the first time and the other the second time. (I had to do the form twice since I had to do a new form once she was naturalized as a citizen at 4 months old).

My daughter is very fair and no one ever thought she was Hispanic at her elementary school since there were no black or Hispanic children in the school other than those there because their parents were living in the neighborhood as they did international business.
When she is in normal places, however, sometimes someone tries to speak to her in Spanish. In other words she looks Hispanic enough that she might be a Latina. (This might occur at McDonald's for example.) This leads me to feel I don't have to say she is Hispanic.

But one of my good friends adopted her son from Bolivia and he is 100% Quechua (Inca). No one will ever look at him and NOT think "INDIAN!". (On top of being very ethnically distinctive he is tall, broad, and extraordinarily handsome. No one will overlook him, either.)

There is a vast difference between being Hispanic-if-you-want and being Hispanic-because-everyone-notices-instantly.

I know I am rambling. Feedback is welcome, even if I cannot absorb it until tomorrow morning!!!

AGBF

Deb, there is a vast difference b/w being a race and looking it and being that race and not looking it. As far as the whole Jewish is it a religion or a religion and a race this is my take on it. I consider it a religion pure and simple.

You can convert into Judaism and once you do you are considered jewish just the same as if you had been born Jewish. One cannot do this with race.

Also, Judaism is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both "Jewish." Ashkenazi Jews are usually from Europe and Sephardic Jews usually from the Middle East. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries but the converse is not true. One cannot convert into a race.

I don't consider being Jewish a nationality because Jews come from all over the world.

Personally, first and foremost I am American. My grandparents were born in the USA and so for the most part were their parents. I have 2 great grandparents from Europe but the rest born here. So not strange that I identify with being a citizen of the USA. I want to say American or North American but lol I realize that could mean other countries. I also consider myself Jewish but that is my religion and even though I am not religious and a secular Jew being Jewish is important to me because it is part of my heritage.

Anyway that's my take on it Deb. Interested to hear more of your thoughts tomorrow.


Vapid, like Lady Disdain I have little patience for those who purposefully want to offend and cause pain or aggravation. That's why I choose nice people to be with and have relationships with. Life is too short, challenging and difficult enough to add unnecessary strife and aggravation.

And I apologize because I use the word Crazy a lot and never thought about the implications of where it came from and what it means. Can anyone help me with a word that conveys the same meaning without the offensive origin? I cannot come up with one yet.


I wasn't advocating the intentional offense. Just pointing out that there can be as many intentions as there can be interpretations.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,223
VapidLapid|1428456833|3858307 said:
The Irish and Canadians are different races?

Aren't they all humans? My great great grandfather was a Canadian, a ship builder in Maitland. His parents came there from Ireland, descended from who knows what, Leprechauns I would guess. I was born in New York. If my racial background isn't simply Human, like everyone else, than I can only be part Leprechaun and part Cracker.
Excuse me? I think you may have misread my post. I said
This isnt race specific of course
Meaning that reference wasn't related to race. And of course all background is human, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with these provocative statements.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,223
Thought of another. I know of a few people who dislike the word 'American' being used described USAers, as the americas encompass many other countries. Not that USAer sounds any better :lol:
 
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