Women, don't ask for a raise. Trust karma.

[kenny]

I'm sure you all welcome this advice ...

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-to-women-dont-ask-for-a-raise-trust-karma-2014-10
SNIP
"Proffering career advice more analogous to The Secret than Sheryl Sandberg'sLean In: Women Work, and the Will to Lead, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella told women in the tech industry that asking for what you're worth isn't the best way to get ahead.

“It’s not really about asking for a raise, but knowing and having faith that the system will give you the right raise,” Nadella told a confounded (and predominantly female) audience at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing on Thursday.

Ascribing to mortals the fictional abilities of comic book heroes, Nadella advised that women embrace their innate "super powers" and confidence, and trust a system that pays women 78% as much as men.

Nadella made the comments in an on-stage conversation with Maria Klawe, a computer scientist, president of Harvey Mudd College, and member of Microsoft's board of directors.
He seemed to suggest that "faith in the system" is akin to magic.

"That might be one of the initial 'super powers,' that quite frankly, women (who) don’t ask for a raise have," he told the straight-faced Klawe.
"It’s good karma.
It will come back.”

Audience murmurs suggested confusion and displeasure with career advice that both goes against everything women are told in the "Lean In" era, and seems woefully out of touch.
The gap in income inequality between men and women in Silicon Valley, where technology is a leading industry, is severely imbalanced, according to a 2014 study by Joint Venture Silicon Valley.
The overall gender pay disparity in Silicon Valley is actually worse than the overall United States:

Men who hold graduate or professional degrees earn a whopping 73 percent more than women with the same educational qualifications, while men with a bachelor’s degree earn 40 percent more than women with the same credentials.
Understandably, women in the audience at Arizona's Grace Hopper Celebration were perplexed by Nadella's advice.

 

[kenny]

IOW, don't you girls worry y'all's pretty little heads.
Trust us.
We men will make sure you get what we think you should get, if there's anything left after we get our raises.

Now, run along and freshen up your make up. Oh, and make us some coffee, will ya Hon?



Seriously, I would have punched this jerk.
Of course, it would have been ... karma.

 

[LaraOnline]

Totally agree Kenny!
Women need to learn the cultural aspects of success.
Which in many ways may be about unlearning the 'waiting to be asked' aspects of learned feminine culture.
Accountability and a tad of aggressively resilient assertiveness is required to be successful paywise.

 

[momhappy]

I don't really agree with his advice, but it doesn't really bother me either. It's just his opinion, which everyone is entitled to, and I guess that I didn't read any more into it than that. Anyone can take it or leave it.

 

[movie zombie]

this was a women's conference!
this is a company that is supposedly leading the charge for salary equality.
the question was "how" to ask for a raise, not "if" one should as for a raise.
the interviewer is on Microsoft's board of directors.
this is a company that everyone likes to poke a stick at: he just handed them a pitchfork.

 

[Calliecake]

Can you imagine this advice ever being given to a man? Unbelievable!

 

[JaneSmith]

 

[iLander]

This seriously pissed me off.

It's the pat-on-the-head "be a good girl" crap ]that the men in power have always given women.

This is the REAL attitude in the boys club that is CEOtown.

Women have the VAST majority of buying power in this country (80+% of purchase decisions are made by women) and I, for one, will never buy any type of Micros$%^# product ever again.

I suggest everyone here follow me, for the sake of your daughters. This has been around long ENOUGH!

 

[kroshka]

The article - first thing that ran through my mind was WTF. Hmm, what I've learned is if you don't ask, you won't get it most likely. And often, to get ahead to the next level, depending on your field, you have to leave your current job to go to a new one. Hopping ship so to speak.

Kroshka

 

[kenny]

I don't really agree with his advice, but it doesn't really bother me either. It's just his opinion, which everyone is entitled to, and I guess that I didn't read any more into it than that. Anyone can take it or leave it.

Uhm, he is the CEO of Microsoft.

 

[iLander]

I think a lot of younger women simply don't remember how hard it was to get here with women's rights. Let's look back at the 1970's, shall we?

Sexual harassment was not against the law. It was standard practice at work. A boss felt perfectly fine commenting on your nice ass, or hinting that a little more after-work "effort" might get you promoted. I have PLENTY of real-life examples of this.

Sexist jokes, insulting comments ("pretty yourself up a little, this is a business") were okay, and standard.

If a woman was successful at work, it was assumed she was sleeping with the boss. Even other women assumed this.

Women were considered too stupid to be in any of the math, science, or tech fields. Just not enough brainpower, plus all those brain-altering hormones.

Phrases like "the little woman", "babes", "chicks", "girls", etc., were used to refer to women at work, and most of those women were secretaries, and would be for life.

In social life, a woman was considered a whore if she had sex outside of marriage. Calling out slut-shaming, celebrating your sexuality, etc., that was all stuff we worked hard to get for today's younger women.

A short skirt, a certain look, whatever, was considered "contributory behavior" in cases of rape, and many rapists were set free. "Asking for it" was a perfectly acceptable phrase.

Birth control was not something that was discussed, even with other women. Neither was menstruation. It just wasn't acceptable.

And here we are 40 YEARS LATER and this bozo pats us all on the head and says essentially "be a good girl, us guys might see fit to give you a raise". Seriously?

If you're still have trouble seeing it, substitute the word African-American (or gays, or whatever you can relate to) for woman in the original question. The answer comes back that blacks (or gays, or whatever) should just have good karma to get a raise.

He also actually said that there is a certain " je ne sais quoi" about women that don't ask for such things. WTF? I guess he was talking about "the good little girls" that he finds so much more attractive than women with a brain.

 

[Karl_K]

Here is a follow up:
http://recode.net/2014/10/09/microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-on-women-gaffe-i-answered-that-question-completely-wrong/

 

[iLander]

If you missed the original story:

“For women who aren’t comfortable asking for a raise, what’s your advice for them?” Maria Klawe, a computer scientist who is a member of Microsoft’s board of directors, asked.

“It’s not really about asking for a raise, but knowing and having faith that the system will give you the right raise,” he told Klawe (who, presumably, was screaming inside). He went on to further imply that there was an incalculable je ne sais quoi about a woman who never asks for what she truly wants.

“That might be one of the initial ‘super powers’ that, quite frankly, women (who) don’t ask for a raise have,” he said. “It’s good karma. It will come back.”

The American Association of University Women recently reported in a comprehensive study that in 2013, full-time year-round female workers were paid 78 percent of what men were paid.

To top it off, Microsoft revealed its diversity numbers last week, showing that just 17.1 percent of its tech-related workforce is female. That’s only slightly better than the national average. According to the National Center for Women & Information Technology, women made up 26 percent of the computing workforce in 2013.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-ceo-says-women-shouldnt-ask-for-raises-will-99592191369.html

 

[monarch64]

If you missed the original story:

“For women who aren’t comfortable asking for a raise, what’s your advice for them?” Maria Klawe, a computer scientist who is a member of Microsoft’s board of directors, asked.

“It’s not really about asking for a raise, but knowing and having faith that the system will give you the right raise,” he told Klawe (who, presumably, was screaming inside). He went on to further imply that there was an incalculable je ne sais quoi about a woman who never asks for what she truly wants.

“That might be one of the initial ‘super powers’ that, quite frankly, women (who) don’t ask for a raise have,” he said. “It’s good karma. It will come back.”

The American Association of University Women recently reported in a comprehensive study that in 2013, full-time year-round female workers were paid 78 percent of what men were paid.

To top it off, Microsoft revealed its diversity numbers last week, showing that just 17.1 percent of its tech-related workforce is female. That’s only slightly better than the national average. According to the National Center for Women & Information Technology, women made up 26 percent of the computing workforce in 2013.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-ceo-says-women-shouldnt-ask-for-raises-will-99592191369.html

 

[momhappy]

I don't really agree with his advice, but it doesn't really bother me either. It's just his opinion, which everyone is entitled to, and I guess that I didn't read any more into it than that. Anyone can take it or leave it.

Uhm, he is the CEO of Microsoft.

I'm well aware of who he is, kenny - that doesn't change anything. It was advice and people can take it for what it's worth, which for me, is not much. Like I said, I may not agree with him, but I don't really have any feelings about it one way or another.

 

[Calliecake]

If you missed the original story:

“For women who aren’t comfortable asking for a raise, what’s your advice for them?” Maria Klawe, a computer scientist who is a member of Microsoft’s board of directors, asked.

“It’s not really about asking for a raise, but knowing and having faith that the system will give you the right raise,” he told Klawe (who, presumably, was screaming inside). He went on to further imply that there was an incalculable je ne sais quoi about a woman who never asks for what she truly wants.

“That might be one of the initial ‘super powers’ that, quite frankly, women (who) don’t ask for a raise have,” he said. “It’s good karma. It will come back.”

The American Association of University Women recently reported in a comprehensive study that in 2013, full-time year-round female workers were paid 78 percent of what men were paid.

To top it off, Microsoft revealed its diversity numbers last week, showing that just 17.1 percent of its tech-related workforce is female. That’s only slightly better than the national average. According to the National Center for Women & Information Technology, women made up 26 percent of the computing workforce in 2013.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-ceo-says-women-shouldnt-ask-for-raises-will-99592191369.html

 

[Calliecake]

I think a lot of younger women simply don't remember how hard it was to get here with women's rights. Let's look back at the 1970's, shall we?

Sexual harassment was not against the law. It was standard practice at work. A boss felt perfectly fine commenting on your nice a$$, or hinting that a little more after-work "effort" might get you promoted. I have PLENTY of real-life examples of this.

Sexist jokes, insulting comments ("pretty yourself up a little, this is a business") were okay, and standard.

If a woman was successful at work, it was assumed she was sleeping with the boss. Even other women assumed this.

Women were considered too stupid to be in any of the math, science, or tech fields. Just not enough brainpower, plus all those brain-altering hormones.

Phrases like "the little woman", "babes", "chicks", "girls", etc., were used to refer to women at work, and most of those women were secretaries, and would be for life.

In social life, a woman was considered a whore if she had sex outside of marriage. Calling out slut-shaming, celebrating your sexuality, etc., that was all stuff we worked hard to get for today's younger women.

A short skirt, a certain look, whatever, was considered "contributory behavior" in cases of rape, and many rapists were set free. "Asking for it" was a perfectly acceptable phrase.

Birth control was not something that was discussed, even with other women. Neither was menstruation. It just wasn't acceptable.

And here we are 40 YEARS LATER and this bozo pats us all on the head and says essentially "be a good girl, us guys might see fit to give you a raise". Seriously?

If you're still have trouble seeing it, substitute the word African-American (or gays, or whatever you can relate to) for woman in the original question. The answer comes back that blacks (or gays, or whatever) should just have good karma to get a raise.

He also actually said that there is a certain " je ne sais quoi" about women that don't ask for such things. WTF? I guess he was talking about "the good little girls" that he finds so much more attractive than women with a brain.

ILander, We must be close in age because I remember this time all too well. It certainly was a good old boy network in the corporate world. A lot of it was sickening!

 

[iLander]

Some might not think that the overall attitude toward women in general, and this guy's attitude in particular, doesn't affect them, but there is a saying:

"Even a blind chameleon changes color to match it's background".

This saying (aside from being an interesting scientific factoid) means that we are all affected by the world around us, wether we realize it or not.

 

[momhappy]

Some might not think that the overall attitude toward women in general, and this guy's attitude in particular, doesn't affect them, but there is a saying:

"Even a blind chameleon changes color to match it's background".

This saying (aside from being an interesting scientific factoid) means that we are all affected by the world around us, wether we realize it or not.

Yes, I agree - we are all affected by the world around us. What I meant in my posts was not that his words didn't have an effect, but that I just didn't have any sort of response/reaction to his words. It was advice - advice can be taken or not and I choose not to take his advice.

 

[ericad]

This is why I'm a Mac.

(and no, that's not an invitation to burst my bubble. LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa...)

In all seriousness though, with all the media frenzy lately about this issue, and all the talking heads debating whether or not the gender pay gap even exists, this douchebag kind of did us a favor by answering that question nicely for us. Debate over, I'd say, now let's fix the problem!

 

[kenny]

Don't most smartphones that are not iPhones use an operating system from Micro$oft?

So even if you have an apple computer you may be supporting this pig who was raised in a country that has a HUGE sexism problem, India.

 

[ericad]

Don't most smartphones that are not iPhones use an operating system from Micro$oft?

So even if you have an apple computer you may be supporting this pig who was raised in a country that has a HUGE sexism problem, India.

I was just joking about being a Mac. I mean, I am an apple user, but not because of sexism, lol.

Even India had a female PM. Back in the '60s no less. So yes, they have huge sexism problems there, but so do we - I don't feel very superior to any other country when it comes to sexism. And I'm uncomfortable with the suggestion that his sexist remarks are the result of him being Indian - I'm of Indian descent too, so that rubs me the wrong way. I think he's sexist because he's an entitled *******, regardless of where he was raised.

I did find this quite interesting. Lots of countries have had female heads of government...hmmmmm, where is the US on this list?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_and_appointed_female_heads_of_state

So yes, while countries like India have oppression issues, let's not kid ourselves into thinking we don't have those problems here. We have plenty of domestic violence, spousal murder, oppression of women in more subversive ways (rape culture, treating women as objects, religion-based oppression, having to constantly battle for equal rights at every turn, etc.)

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I heard an interview on NPR from the woman who interviewed him. She is still a fan of him and thinks he is a brilliant CEO. She didn't
Agree with how he said it but chronicled her own career and all the times she didn't take the risk to negotiate. It was interesting to hear her POV.

 

[zoebartlett]

I don't really agree with his advice, but it doesn't really bother me either. It's just his opinion, which everyone is entitled to, and I guess that I didn't read any more into it than that. Anyone can take it or leave it.

That's what I thought too. Yeah, what he said wasn't the smartest thing, especially at a women's conference, but it didn't ruffle my feathers too much.

 

[GliderPoss]

Hmmm wasn't his brightest moment was it? I agree it is incredibly condescending and patronising towards woman in the workforce. I have been very fortunately to only experience sexism once - first job straight out of college with a very old fashioned male boss and I left that role 4 months later. Used to call me "girl" instead of my name...

Since then I've worked for several wonderful companies and when I ask for a hard-earned raise - I get it. Every. Single. Time.

I still notice less women in senior roles though...

 

[alpackie]

On my way home from work on Friday, I heard an interview with Maria Klawe on NPR: http://www.kplu.org/post/microsoft-ceos-comments-reflect-larger-workplace-problem

She's the one who posed the question at the conference, and she suggests that although she doesn't agree with his statements, we must consider his background and experiences that lead up to his opinion (his opinion has since changed). Satya Nadella's opinion was perhaps based on the S. East Asian culture's dislike for asking for things (evidenced by his mention of "karma").

In the audio recording of the conference, you can hear clapping after Klawe says that she disagrees with Nadella. Up until his statement, Microsoft had been doing alright in terms of explaining how they advocate for women in the tech industry--so audience members were even more taken aback by his statement.

 

[kenny]

... we must consider his background and experiences that lead up to his opinion (his opinion has since changed). Satya Nadella's opinion was perhaps based on the S. East Asian culture's dislike for asking for things (evidenced by his mention of "karma").

No.

If I move to country X AND ESPECIALLY IF I EXPECT TO FUNCTION AS A CEO THERE, I'd learn and adopt the local culture and work values and ethics.

If I found local values deeply offensive (women not allowed to vote or drive, gays are executed etc.) I would not support that culture by moving living and working there, no matter how prestigious the position or how high the compensation.

How women are treated back in his native India, or the role of karma in Indian culture is NO excuse for shoving those ways down the throats of America women.

No back pedaling can un-ring that bell.
This guy should resign.

 

[alpackie]

How women are treated back in his native India, or the role of karma in Indian culture is NO excuse for shoving those ways down the throats of America women.

No back pedaling can un-ring that bell.
This guy should resign.

I don't know how women are treated in India, nor do I know much about karma, but I think Klawe was suggesting that we consider his cultural background not because women should accept his opinion, but merely to assume his best intentions and allow him to move forward from his mistake. Klawe, as well as the other Microsoft board members, support Nadella and do not wish him to resign.

I do agree having a CEO of a major tech company who advocates for social justice would be nice, for a change.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I wonder what his daughters think of his comment. I have no other information--ages ect.


Annette