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Who keeps the ring in a broken engagement?

kenny

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http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/22/news/engagement-ring/index.html?iid=GM

While breaking off an engagement may help a couple dodge a messy divorce, it doesn't always keep them out of the courtroom.
More than $5,000 is spent on the average engagement ring. And deciding who gets to keep the ring when the big day gets called off is such a hotly-contested issue that most states have laws governing its ownership.

Some bitter lovers even take the case to court.
Colette DiPierro, 31, thought her broken engagement was behind her when she learned that her ex-fiancé Christopher Reinhold was suing, demanding the return of her $17,500 diamond engagement ring.
They had dated for almost two years when Reinhold proposed in May 2009. But the couple began to fight, often about money, and they split four months later, said DiPierro, a physician assistant in Staten Island, N.Y. The following spring, he filed a lawsuit. Reinhold and his attorney did not respond to requests for comment.

According to DiPierro, she held onto the ring because he hadn't repaid her for his share of $40,000 worth of living expenses. Their deal: she had paid for rent, food, car payments and other bills while Reinhold saved for the ring.
"I helped him save so I felt that I was holding onto the ring for collateral," she said.
Laws vary by state, but many consider the ring a "conditional gift" until the couple says "I do," -- meaning that regardless of who gets cold feet, the ring must be returned to the person who bought it, said Alton Abramowitz, a New York-based attorney and president of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers.
But it's not always that simple.

A New York judge ruled in 2006 that a woman could keep her 3.4-carat diamond engagement ring because her ex had not yet been divorced from his previous wife when he proposed. The Montana Supreme Court, meanwhile, has shot down the conditional gift theory entirely, ruling that the ring is the rightful property of its recipient.
In certain states, determining who gets the ring rests on who called off the wedding. And, to complicate matters further, some states treat an engagement ring given on a holiday differently than one given on a non-holiday.
In DiPierro's case, because the ring was given to her on her birthday, she argued that it should be hers to keep.
Related: How to ask a friend to pay you back
New York State law was on her side, said George Muscato, a Lockport, N.Y.-based attorney who recently represented a female client in an engagement ring-related suit. He did not represent DiPierro.
"If you give her that ring on a holiday like Christmas or Valentine's Day or her birthday, then you are making a gift to her as a present [that is] unconditional," he said.
 

kenny

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Wasn't the expensive diamond given in exchange for getting the woman's virginity?
If so, he should get the ring back if he never got to ... :naughty: since we know all women marrying are virgins still.
 

lyra

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The ring recipient should give the ring back to the ring giver, provided the giver paid for the ring himself/herself. I can see many complications to this issue. In Canada, if the couple lives together for a certain amount of time, they are considered common-law married. There must be something like that in the US too. That would complicate financial matters. When you live together, and one person owns the dwelling, the other will have a stake in that dwelling if there is a break-up. But generally, yes, the ring should always go back.
 

ruby59

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According to a great authority - Judge Judy - a ring is given in contemplation of marriage. If the marriage does not take place it goes back to the one who purchased it.

As far as the ring being given on a holiday or as a birthday gift - Judy feels that if it looks like an engagement ring, then it goes back.
 

Enerchi

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I was engaged 3 times to the wrong guy (ya... three...!! lol) TOTALLY the wrong guy and I was young, stupid and in nursing school where the graduation degree of choice was your "MRS" degree, not your BScN!.... but anyhow --- each time, gave it back. The last time, I kept it. Why? I figured at that point, the few times I'd collided with the wall courtesy of some unknown stupid thing I had apparently done, I decided that was enough to have "earned" it, IMO. About a year after the final break up, I had it set into a different design and own it to this day.

Normally, though, I would say give the ring back. It is given as a promise in marriage, if the promise is broken, it gets returned.
 

Dancing Fire

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kenny|1364244613|3413129 said:
Wasn't the expensive diamond given in exchange for getting the woman's virginity?
If so, he should get the ring back if he never got to ... :naughty: since we know all women marrying are virgins still.
but what if he was and she wasn't,then what??... :bigsmile:
 

Laila619

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ruby59|1364246154|3413153 said:
According to a great authority - Judge Judy - a ring is given in contemplation of marriage. If the marriage does not take place it goes back to the one who purchased it.

As far as the ring being given on a holiday or as a birthday gift - Judy feels that if it looks like an engagement ring, then it goes back.

That makes sense.

Although if the *GUY* breaks off the engagement, then I don't really see anything wrong with the woman keeping the e-ring. Maybe she could sell it and use the funds to treat herself to something nice since she got dumped.

Before DH, I was engaged to someone else. He called it off and demanded the ring back. I should have kept it. I think the tacky part is he gave my ring to his now wife!
 

isaku5

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It depends on who broke the engagement IMHO. If the guy bought it' in contemplation of marriage' and she broke the en
gagement then he should have the ring. If the guy bought it and he broke the engagement, well I guess he keeps it.

Nowadays, with the cost of diamonds seeming to rise daily, do couples often share the cost? If they break up, does each get the percentage s(he) put toward the ring?
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="Laila619|1364250014|
Although if the *GUY* breaks off the engagement, then I don't really see anything wrong with the woman keeping the e-ring. Maybe she could sell it and use the funds to treat herself to something nice since she got dumped.

Before DH, I was engaged to someone else. He called it off and demanded the ring back. I should have kept it. I think the tacky part is he gave my ring to his now wife![/quote]


does his wife know the ring was meant for his Ex gf?
 

SB621

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I guess my feeling is if you break up over neutral issues the guy gets the ring back. If the guy called off the wedding, cheated or did something like that girl gets to keep it. It varys on each relationship and how the cards played out.
 

sonnyjane

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Sarahbear621|1364255463|3413284 said:
I guess my feeling is if you break up over neutral issues the guy gets the ring back. If the guy called off the wedding, cheated or did something like that girl gets to keep it.

That's how I would feel! I don't know if that stands up legally, but if a guy cheated, I would feel like I deserved the ring for damages!
 

Dancing Fire

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sonnyjane|1364255808|3413292 said:
Sarahbear621|1364255463|3413284 said:
I guess my feeling is if you break up over neutral issues the guy gets the ring back. If the guy called off the wedding, cheated or did something like that girl gets to keep it.

That's how I would feel! I don't know if that stands up legally, but if a guy cheated, I would feel like I deserved the ring for damages!
and if the gal had cheated on him does he deserve a ring for damages?.. :confused: :read:
 

sonnyjane

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Dancing Fire|1364259261|3413334 said:
sonnyjane|1364255808|3413292 said:
Sarahbear621|1364255463|3413284 said:
I guess my feeling is if you break up over neutral issues the guy gets the ring back. If the guy called off the wedding, cheated or did something like that girl gets to keep it.

That's how I would feel! I don't know if that stands up legally, but if a guy cheated, I would feel like I deserved the ring for damages!
and if the gal had cheated on him does he deserve a ring for damages?.. :confused: :read:

Oh yeah, if she cheats on him she doesn't deserve the ring!
 

Laila619

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Dancing Fire|1364251566|3413239 said:
Laila619|1364250014 said:
Although if the *GUY* breaks off the engagement, then I don't really see anything wrong with the woman keeping the e-ring. Maybe she could sell it and use the funds to treat herself to something nice since she got dumped.

Before DH, I was engaged to someone else. He called it off and demanded the ring back. I should have kept it. I think the tacky part is he gave my ring to his now wife!


does his wife know the ring was meant for his Ex gf?

DF, I am assuming she doesn't have any clue!
 

AGBF

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The rule used to be cast in stone and Judge Judy appears to be old enough to have to learned the rule back when it was, as did I. Those were simpler times, however.

In the "olden" days a man proposed marriage and gave his fiancée an engagement ring if she accepted his proposal. Until she married him, the ring did not belong to her. If she broke the engagement, she had to return his ring. Once she married him, the ring became her property. The man was not allowed to break the engagement, lest he be known as a scoundrel. In many venues he could be sued for breach of promise if he attempted to break an engagement.

Now, of course, it is routine for couples to cohabit prior to marriage and to share finances. They may even have children together before they marry. To force modern couples to adhere to the old rule is liking forcing a square peg into a round hole.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

iLander

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I think it depends on why the engagement was broken.

If it was because he fooled around, she keeps it and sells it for $$$. With which she buys a very sharp knife and shreds his tires. :bigsmile:

If it was because they both agreed it wouldn't work out, back it goes to him. He is to return it, and NOT give it to the next girl. :rolleyes:

Unlike the movies, at no point does it EVER get flung into a body of water. I hate when they do that. :nono:
 

Dancing Fire

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Laila619|1364261318|3413371 said:
Dancing Fire|1364251566|3413239 said:
Laila619|1364250014 said:
Although if the *GUY* breaks off the engagement, then I don't really see anything wrong with the woman keeping the e-ring. Maybe she could sell it and use the funds to treat herself to something nice since she got dumped.

Before DH, I was engaged to someone else. He called it off and demanded the ring back. I should have kept it. I think the tacky part is he gave my ring to his now wife!


does his wife know the ring was meant for his Ex gf?

DF, I am assuming she doesn't have any clue!
then you should tell his wife... :naughty:
 

MissStepcut

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I kept both of mine. I would have returned them, but they were never requested.
 

missy

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I've never had a broken engagement but I would have returned the ring if I had. I wouldn't have wanted a reminder of a relationship that wasn't meant to be and the heartache that would have gone with a broken engagement. And also, if the man gave the ring to me in promise of marriage and we didn't go through with it well, that ring is no longer mine IMO.

Now, ask me if we were married and that broke up. Well, that ring would have been mine because we went through with the engagement and wedding. So different story.

However, I realize everyone's personal circumstances are different and there is no rule that fits all relationships. This is just a generalization based on what *I* would have done under these circumstances. It might vary given different specifics.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Enerchi|1364246602|3413161 said:
I was engaged 3 times to the wrong guy (ya... three...!! lol) TOTALLY the wrong guy and I was young, stupid and in nursing school where the graduation degree of choice was your "MRS" degree, not your BScN!.... but anyhow --- each time, gave it back. The last time, I kept it. Why? I figured at that point, the few times I'd collided with the wall courtesy of some unknown stupid thing I had apparently done, I decided that was enough to have "earned" it, IMO. About a year after the final break up, I had it set into a different design and own it to this day.

Normally, though, I would say give the ring back. It is given as a promise in marriage, if the promise is broken, it gets returned.

Enerchi were you engaged to the same guy three times, or three different men?
 

Laila619

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Dancing Fire|1364275811|3413524 said:
Laila619|1364261318|3413371 said:
Dancing Fire|1364251566|3413239 said:
Laila619|1364250014 said:
Although if the *GUY* breaks off the engagement, then I don't really see anything wrong with the woman keeping the e-ring. Maybe she could sell it and use the funds to treat herself to something nice since she got dumped.

Before DH, I was engaged to someone else. He called it off and demanded the ring back. I should have kept it. I think the tacky part is he gave my ring to his now wife!


does his wife know the ring was meant for his Ex gf?

DF, I am assuming she doesn't have any clue!
then you should tell his wife... :naughty:

LOL, I don't ever talk to her. I've just seen facebook pics of her wearing my old ring!
 

Enerchi

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Dreamer_D|1364326885|3413880 said:
Enerchi|1364246602|3413161 said:
I was engaged 3 times to the wrong guy (ya... three...!! lol) TOTALLY the wrong guy and I was young, stupid and in nursing school where the graduation degree of choice was your "MRS" degree, not your BScN!.... but anyhow --- each time, gave it back. The last time, I kept it. Why? I figured at that point, the few times I'd collided with the wall courtesy of some unknown stupid thing I had apparently done, I decided that was enough to have "earned" it, IMO. About a year after the final break up, I had it set into a different design and own it to this day.

Normally, though, I would say give the ring back. It is given as a promise in marriage, if the promise is broken, it gets returned.

Enerchi were you engaged to the same guy three times, or three different men?


I guess it puts a real spin on my younger years, depending on how I answer that, doesn't it! :naughty: :lol: :lol: :naughty:


No, it was the same guy 3x's! My high school sweetheart, didn't know any better, knew alcoholism was in the family, he'd use any excuse to get wasted (like monday/tuesday/wednesday... were the best days of the week EVER!), started to get angry as his life didn't go where he wanted it to, momma's boy.... we were both just 'following along' the wedding track and probably did not know any better - like, that you actually COULD call off a wedding. I was caught up in the "MRS degree" and planning a wedding - a big white party, rather than who the person was I'd be living the rest of my life with. I was pretty dumb, looking back with 20/20 hindsight, to keep going back but man--- did I dodge a HUGE bullet by not marrying him!!! ai yi yi!!

ya - what would I tell my own DD?? do NOT get sucked into doing what the rest of the crowd is doing --- *THINK* about the choices you are making! This guy/this moment, may not be the right thing for you.

Happily, found my DH and we've been together 30+ years, married for almost 28! :appl: :bigsmile:
 

Laila619

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Enerchi|1364333602|3413956 said:
Dreamer_D|1364326885|3413880 said:
Enerchi|1364246602|3413161 said:
I was engaged 3 times to the wrong guy (ya... three...!! lol) TOTALLY the wrong guy and I was young, stupid and in nursing school where the graduation degree of choice was your "MRS" degree, not your BScN!.... but anyhow --- each time, gave it back. The last time, I kept it. Why? I figured at that point, the few times I'd collided with the wall courtesy of some unknown stupid thing I had apparently done, I decided that was enough to have "earned" it, IMO. About a year after the final break up, I had it set into a different design and own it to this day.

Normally, though, I would say give the ring back. It is given as a promise in marriage, if the promise is broken, it gets returned.

Enerchi were you engaged to the same guy three times, or three different men?


I guess it puts a real spin on my younger years, depending on how I answer that, doesn't it! :naughty: :lol: :lol: :naughty:


No, it was the same guy 3x's! My high school sweetheart, didn't know any better, knew alcoholism was in the family, he'd use any excuse to get wasted (like monday/tuesday/wednesday... were the best days of the week EVER!), started to get angry as his life didn't go where he wanted it to, momma's boy.... we were both just 'following along' the wedding track and probably did not know any better - like, that you actually COULD call off a wedding. I was caught up in the "MRS degree" and planning a wedding - a big white party, rather than who the person was I'd be living the rest of my life with. I was pretty dumb, looking back with 20/20 hindsight, to keep going back but man--- did I dodge a HUGE bullet by not marrying him!!! ai yi yi!!

ya - what would I tell my own DD?? do NOT get sucked into doing what the rest of the crowd is doing --- *THINK* about the choices you are making! This guy/this moment, may not be the right thing for you.

Happily, found my DH and we've been together 30+ years, married for almost 28! :appl: :bigsmile:

Enerch, this sounds just like me with my ex-fiance! And I too am so relieved *he* called it off, because I dodged a real bullet too.
 

BriBee

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I also kept my first ER because the reason we called off the wedding and split up was due to my Ex's drug addiction. After trying to stick it out (and pay for) 2 rehabs...I felt I earned the right to keep the ring.

I ended up consigning the diamond with GOG, and then I traded the setting back in to the jeweler who made it for me for store credit.
 

LaraOnline

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AGBF|1364264829|3413423 said:
The rule used to be cast in stone and Judge Judy appears to be old enough to have to learned the rule back when it was, as did I. Those were simpler times, however.

In the "olden" days a man proposed marriage and gave his fiancée an engagement ring if she accepted his proposal. Until she married him, the ring did not belong to her. If she broke the engagement, she had to return his ring. Once she married him, the ring became her property. The man was not allowed to break the engagement, lest he be known as a scoundrel. In many venues he could be sued for breach of promise if he attempted to break an engagement.

Now, of course, it is routine for couples to cohabit prior to marriage and to share finances. They may even have children together before they marry. To force modern couples to adhere to the old rule is liking forcing a square peg into a round hole.

Deb/AGBF
:read:

Very interesting, thank you for that!
 

JaneSmith

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I think demanding a gift to be returned is wrong.
Should I return every stuffed toy, christmas ornament, and t-shirt? Should I give movie, chocolate, and restaurant gift certificates to cover all the dates the failed fiance paid for? No.

I will keep it because it was a gift, and I expect every gift I gave to be kept or disposed of how the other person sees fit. The gift giver is no longer the owner of the object. Don't give something away if you still want it.

Perhaps the proposer/ring buyer would like to add a pre-engagement agreement somewhere in that beautiful moment. :roll:


Here is the wikipedia entry on e-rings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement_ring

An excerpt:
One reason for the increased popularity of expensive engagement rings is its relationship to human sexuality and the woman's marriage prospects.[10] Until the Great Depression, a man who broke off a marriage engagement could be sued for breach of promise. Monetary damages included actual expenses incurred in preparing for the wedding, plus damages for emotional distress and loss of other marriage prospects. Damages were greatly increased if the woman had engaged in sexual intercourse with her fiancé.[10] Beginning in 1935, these laws were repealed or limited. However, the social and financial cost of a broken engagement was no less: marriage was the only financially sound option for most women, and if she was no longer a virgin, her prospects for a suitable future marriage were greatly decreased. The diamond engagement ring thus became a source of financial security for the woman.[10]

Nice. :knockout:
 
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