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what would you do ethical question

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
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Hmm I feel a little weird posting this on here but felt this would be a good place to get feedback. My sister works in dining services in a retirement home. There is one elderly man that has an adversarial relationship with her, after she caught him viewing (gay) **** on a common computer. Also there was an instance where something fell out of his pocket and it was a photo of two people- hard to determine age having sex (she didn't really go into detail but it was pornographic and couldn't tell how old one of the "participants" was). He is very friendly with the young male busers and dishwashers, tries to give them gifts and also invites them on outings such as dinner (the residents can leave the residence to eat, etc). the gifts and the invitations are against the rules of the residence, another reason she has butted heads with him, and he has tried to get her fired basically. She did a search of the man's name, and he was highly involved in a charity that helped underpriviledged boys, where they would stay at a half way home situation for a few months where he volunteered and then they would leave/be placed.

Now it could be that he is simply someone who is very interested in the welfare of young men and has this mistaken sense of wanting to be involved in their lives, and his private business is his business. Or, as my sister feels, something creepy is going on and he may have gotten away with things in the past. She reported the computer incident but not the photo incident. I told her there is no evidence he did anything illegal, that simply not to get into interactions with him and keep reinforcing the residence rules. But after this whole Sandusky thing, I don't know. Is there anything else she should do in this situation? She feels that if she makes any additional reports about him it will simply be seen as being predjuced against him as he was giving her a very hard time at work for awhile (this has quieted down).
 

Circe

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Her evidence here is,

A) a photo glimpsed for a couple of seconds, and

B) the fact that he volunteered with a charitable association, and

c) the fact that he is gay, and maybe interested in some of the legal-age employees.

Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. The photo, unless there's something additional I skimmed or missed, isn't damning evidence (if you tell me the part where she couldn't tell the age is, say, the difference between 8 and 12 as opposed to the difference between 16 and 19, first I will throw up, then I will change my answer). So, basically, it's the fact that he's (maybe) hitting on younger dudes above the age of consent who work at the home that's ringing her chimes?

I'd say they can look out for themselves, and she should take a polite step back (and maybe reexamine some of her beliefs). I understand her heart is in the right place, but the confusion between pedophilia, ephebophilia, and homosexuality is one of those things that's caused a lot of trouble for a number of perfectly innocent people in the gay community.

ETA: And, for that matter, allowed a number of predators to operate below the radar. After all, no hetrosexual married dude like Sandusky would ever do such a thing, right?
 

JewelFreak

Ideal_Rock
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From your description I gather he was watching gay ****, not kiddy **** -- understandably against the rules of the residence but not illegal. If, in doing her duties, she came across child pornography in his room, that's another story altogether. But at this point, as Circe says, she has nothing to indicate he did anything illegal, or immoral for that matter. Homosexuality does not mean pedophilia. Lots of gay men and women work in fields dealing with children every bit as compassionately as straight people.

I also agree that the workers he comes onto can take care of themselves. Sometimes inhibitions slide along with mental sharpness & between men & women hitting on them, they get wise fast.

--- Laurie
 

QueenB29

Shiny_Rock
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440
part gypsy|1323288696|3076321 said:
Hmm I feel a little weird posting this on here but felt this would be a good place to get feedback. My sister works in dining services in a retirement home. There is one elderly man that has an adversarial relationship with her, after she caught him viewing (gay) **** on a common computer. Also there was an instance where something fell out of his pocket and it was a photo of two people- hard to determine age having sex (she didn't really go into detail but it was pornographic and couldn't tell how old one of the "participants" was). He is very friendly with the young male busers and dishwashers, tries to give them gifts and also invites them on outings such as dinner (the residents can leave the residence to eat, etc). the gifts and the invitations are against the rules of the residence, another reason she has butted heads with him, and he has tried to get her fired basically. She did a search of the man's name, and he was highly involved in a charity that helped underpriviledged boys, where they would stay at a half way home situation for a few months where he volunteered and then they would leave/be placed.

Now it could be that he is simply someone who is very interested in the welfare of young men and has this mistaken sense of wanting to be involved in their lives, and his private business is his business. Or, as my sister feels, something creepy is going on and he may have gotten away with things in the past. She reported the computer incident but not the photo incident. I told her there is no evidence he did anything illegal, that simply not to get into interactions with him and keep reinforcing the residence rules. But after this whole Sandusky thing, I don't know. Is there anything else she should do in this situation? She feels that if she makes any additional reports about him it will simply be seen as being predjuced against him as he was giving her a very hard time at work for awhile (this has quieted down).

While I agree with Circe that you can't make the leap to pedophilia, I also put a lot of emphasis on one's "gut." Often if something isn't right, you just know. Just how young are these dishwashers and bus boys? If they're underage, then I think that's something she needs to bring up at work...especially since it's already against the rules....but that doesn't mean she should start throwing around accusations. And if they're 18, she's got to let it go.
 

joflier

Ideal_Rock
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3,511
If these young men are not minors, its not anyone else's business what their lifestyle choices are. And whether or not they choose to accept gifts, dinner, or even an intimate relationship with this man; that's their personal decision. Or if it is unwanted - that's also their personal decision to report it and take action.
I've had some issues with being harrassed in the workplace in the past, and I chose not to report it for a variety of reasons. And I would have been very upset if one of my coworkers decided to report it for me.

Now, if these young men are underage - that's a different story, and I think that something should be brought to the proper people's attention.
 

partgypsy

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Yeah, all she has really is a troubling feeling about him. Some of the dishwashers/busers are high schoolers, the servers are typically college-age, so it's a mix.

As far as his personal business, at least at this residence the residents are not supposed to give individual gifts or have personal outings with the employees. That is part of why my sister and him are butting heads is that she is a stickler for rules and he likes to flout them, and then try to get her in trouble by saying no one else has a problem with it see?

That's why I told her to simply steer clear of him and delegate him being seated, etc.
 

Rhea

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I work with a vulnerable population. My clients aren't allowed to give me or my co-workers gifts. We tell them, we remind them, we discourage it. However, if gifts are offered, it's up to us as the professionals to turn them down politely and re-state the rules without making the person feel bad. Maybe your sister could recommend that during a meeting the rules regarding acceptance of gifts and how to handle it is covered. Chances are, she or anyone else isn't going to get the resident to stop giving gifts. It's important to control the actions of the employees regarding gifts, not the resident.

ETA: Despite our rules regarding our residents not giving gifts, one recently left one of my co-workers everything he had in his will. Co-worker found out when the man died and co-worker was contacted. We can't stop that happening, we can only follow policies when it does.
 

nkarma

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Circe|1323289165|3076332 said:
Her evidence here is,

A) a photo glimpsed for a couple of seconds, and

B) the fact that he volunteered with a charitable association, and

c) the fact that he is gay, and maybe interested in some of the legal-age employees.

Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. The photo, unless there's something additional I skimmed or missed, isn't damning evidence (if you tell me the part where she couldn't tell the age is, say, the difference between 8 and 12 as opposed to the difference between 16 and 19, first I will throw up, then I will change my answer). So, basically, it's the fact that he's (maybe) hitting on younger dudes above the age of consent who work at the home that's ringing her chimes?

I'd say they can look out for themselves, and she should take a polite step back (and maybe reexamine some of her beliefs). I understand her heart is in the right place, but the confusion between pedophilia, ephebophilia, and homosexuality is one of those things that's caused a lot of trouble for a number of perfectly innocent people in the gay community.

ETA: And, for that matter, allowed a number of predators to operate below the radar. After all, no hetrosexual married dude like Sandusky would ever do such a thing, right?

Ditto
 

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
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I asked her about the photo and it was an extreme close up (of genitalia in a sex act) so no way to determine the age. But she has dropped it and has other people seat this individual. She doesn't intend on pursuing anything but I guess the whole thing made her protective hackles get up.

But thank you everyone, for your feedback.
 

Circe

Ideal_Rock
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... um, if there's no way to determine the age, why did she assume it depicted an underage subject? I feel like I'm missing something here ....
 

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
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OK if you want to get very specific, because she couldn't see any hair. But I don't really want to go into more details.
 

iheartscience

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Jan 1, 2007
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Ahem...plenty of "performers" are hairless, male or female, so that definitely doesn't automatically indicate that someone is underage. Hopefully that will ease your sister's mind?
 

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
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yes, and she only saw it briefly so who knows. Anyways it seems things are fine there. They even had a christmas party where her boss dressed as an elf, so it seems like everyone is in a good mood,
 

Imdanny

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Circe|1323289165|3076332 said:
Her evidence here is,

A) a photo glimpsed for a couple of seconds, and

B) the fact that he volunteered with a charitable association, and

c) the fact that he is gay, and maybe interested in some of the legal-age employees.

Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. The photo, unless there's something additional I skimmed or missed, isn't damning evidence (if you tell me the part where she couldn't tell the age is, say, the difference between 8 and 12 as opposed to the difference between 16 and 19, first I will throw up, then I will change my answer). So, basically, it's the fact that he's (maybe) hitting on younger dudes above the age of consent who work at the home that's ringing her chimes?

I'd say they can look out for themselves, and she should take a polite step back (and maybe reexamine some of her beliefs). I understand her heart is in the right place, but the confusion between pedophilia, ephebophilia, and homosexuality is one of those things that's caused a lot of trouble for a number of perfectly innocent people in the gay community.

ETA: And, for that matter, allowed a number of predators to operate below the radar. After all, no hetrosexual married dude like Sandusky would ever do such a thing, right?

Exactly, and I hope anyone who's old enough to work there has the ability to fight off the advances of an old man. :???:
 
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