WE HAVE ONE MORE BARRIER AT LEAST STILL TO GO!

[azstonie]

Equal rights for women.

I'm old enough that I remember the ERA failing and feeling very let down. It gave me empathy for segments of society that were disenfranchised by lacking protection of rights under the law.

I know, I know, it was decades ago BUT I STILL WANT IT!

I taught for a couple of years in a ghetto neighborhood. Usually in the first 2 weeks of school I would have to address the "You don't know my pain, you don't know prejudice" convo with my students (high school). So I'd start the discussion by reminding them that the first aspect of a person seen is GENDER. I'd give them a couple examples of what I'd lost out on due to my gender.

Then we could get back to the issue of seeing them through high school with a diploma at the conclusion and hopefully college or some similar plan for their futures.

I have always felt common cause with discriminated segments of society because haters are usually women haters from the get-go.

 

[iLander]

I remember!

But the younger women don't remember that the only jobs for women were receptionist, typist, nurse, teacher, etc. A female scientist, engineer, police officer, member of the military. clergy, etc., was unheard of.

The idea of calling women "sex workers" or recognizing them as human (often with children to care/pay for) did not exist.

The idea of a woman owning/enjoying her own body was slutty talk.

Back then, women were raped because they "asked for it".

I'm not talking about the '50's, I'm talking about the '70's, 80's, 90's. Times have changed.

But we still have a long way to go. The ERA wasn't passed because the corporations wouldn't stand for it, and they still won't. It would give millions of women a leg to stand on when they find out that the guy next to them, working the same job, makes more than they do. The lawsuits would fly. Because women still make 86% of what a man does. Gee, guess they're just not worth the extra 14¢.

I think that women are the worst chauvinists. When asked for a poll a few years ago, the majority of women said they would prefer a male surgeon. I think this says a lot.

I feel like the US is so insular because the government and corporations like it that way. That way we won't know that DOZENS of other countries have/had female heads of state, free childcare, free healthcare, maternity AND paternity leave, free birth control, abortion rights, etc. Oh, yeah, every one of those countries is "socialist". Bull$hit, lies told by politicians. And what's Social Security and unemployment insurance if not "socialism"?

The other day my DD said "If they elect a gay president before they elect a woman, I'm really going to be pi$$ed." Yeah, me too. It seems like the equal rights bus has passed us by . . . again.

 

[azstonie]

iLander, WORD!

The corporations and power structure realized they were off the hook when women younger than you and me let their hard fought reproductive legal rights lapse.

I'm 56 years old, I marched for reproductive rights, I signed my legal name to petitions and public statements, and I voted this issue my entire LIFE. And its been whittled away to almost nothing because of laziness and a failure to know your own history.

Now hold on here if someone is upset----I'm not saying anyone who doesn't want to end a pregnancy has to do so, but I *am* saying that allowing the religious far right in this country take control of women's healthcare and family planning gave Corporate America the go-ahead to keep paying us less, promoting us, retiring us with less, and benefitting us with LESS.

Wake up, women! LESS IS LESS!!!!!

 

[MissStepcut]

I admit alongside the joy I also felt the sting of the lack of equal protection for women with today's decision. But Texas has promised to wage war on marriage equality the same way they wage war, and are winning, against abortion: by undermining access at every turn and to the best of their (considerable) ability.

 

[texaskj]

When I try to explain to men how women still aren't treated equally, I get the dumbest, blankest stares.
Most of them are just completely ignorant of it.

I then tell them they're coming back as a woman in their next life so they can experience it firsthand.

 

[iLander]

The lack of response on this thread is an indicator of the lack of interest . . .

But here's an article that has some interesting points. Full disclosure, I just skimmed it, will read more closely later.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/06/ten-reason-women-are-losing-while-gays-keep-winning.html

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I must admit, to my knowledge, I have never faced this. I am 29 and I do work in a traditionally female field, teacher, and I get paid the same as any man with my job (yay unions). None of my female friends haven ever complained of any mistreatment or issues when they were taking maternity leaves. Many of them work in the corporate world in NYC. I see though that one of the biggest issues is maternity leave. I think that one of the first steps needed to truly balance things out and make things fair are equal rights for maternity and paternity leave, so there is no prejudice for males or females in regards to having children. I do think it's a problem when companies have to foot the bill, and I would be willing to pay an additional tax to have this. I know this is a very complicated problem but I would love to see this become the next major "issue" to be brought to the forfront.

 

[kenny]

Yes, there has been progress but there is still much change needed to achieve equality for women in every way.

I'm a man and when I hang with straight men I'm often reminded that a huge part of the problem is the demeaning attitudes about women that many men hold.
Men are only at ease revealing this when there are no women around.

But like I've said, equality is a moral and powerful force.
It will eventually happen.

 

[manderz]

But like I've said, equality is a moral and powerful force.
It will eventually happen.

I'd like to think so, but I really don't believe I'll ever see it. I still on a very regular basis deal with sexism and being demeaned because I'm a woman. Very often, my worth as a woman is defined by the occupancy status of my uterus (and, as it is currently and hopefully always going to be vacant, I am treated as less than, or I don't know what I'm talking about, or I'm missing out). Men like to talk to women out in public, but if a woman doesn't want to talk, she's a bitch. When she states she is in a relationship, it's "Oh, sorry man, my bad!" Well, why can't I just not want to talk to you simply because I don't want to, not that I'm "owned" by someone else? Why do I feel the need to apologize when I share a good idea or contradictory opinion, but men can interrupt and throw out their ideas willy-nilly? There's a very, very long way to go.

ETA: I'm not trying to discredit how far equality has come so far. I'm very grateful for what women have fought for so far, but we shouldn't have to be fighting tooth and nail to get the same thing that men are just handed.

 

[kenny]

Many men are pigs who want sex with as many woman as possible.

For zillions of years evolution rewarded men who had more kids.
Those sons grew up to father as many kids as possible.

Natural selection turned men into sluts.

I don't think laws will ever change that the desire ... but the behavior must be changed.
We cannot tolerate women being treated as little more than sexual targets.

 

[Calliecake]

We still have a political party that feels they have right to make decisions for our bodies! Seriously, what year is it????

 

[iLander]

Yes, there has been progress but there is still much change needed to achieve equality for women in every way.

I'm a man and when I hang with straight men I'm often reminded that a huge part of the problem is the demeaning attitudes about women that many men hold.
Men are only at ease revealing this when there are no women around.

But like I've said, equality is a moral and powerful force.
It will eventually happen.

We need the help of the gay community, Kenny. Maybe have Christopher Lloyd and Steve Levitan write a sitcom about men who treat women with dignity and equality (For those that don't get the reference, I'm talking about the head guys/writers of the show "Modern Family", which we all know was a major help in getting those "on the fence" to see gays as normal and human).

I kinda think women were a huge help to the gay cause. We are the less threatened, less homophobic half of the population, and we opened our arms wide. A little payback is in order

 

[mochiko42]

One thing that I was amazed to learn is that there is no maternity leave in the US. The only other country in the world without maternity leave is Papua New Guinea. Even North Korea has better maternity leave laws that the US.. I find it sad that many US women take maternity leave under the Short term disability act.. That's implying that the law views babies as a short term disability? Sad..

 

[iLander]

We still have a political party that feels they have right to make decisions for our bodies! Seriously, what year is it????

Oh, lord, don't get me started on this!

Did you know that in many states a rapist has parental rights if he makes his victim pregnant?

True story. Here's a link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/10/the-daily-show-parental-rights-rapists_n_7041588.html

How's that for being a vessel for the "all mighty" sperm, ladies? A RAPIST is more important than a woman!

A new FEMALE DEMOCRAT Senator from Florida (finally, something good) eliminated these rights in Florida. But she can't get it thru Congress. WTF?!

Yeah, that's before we start talking about "abstinence only sex education". Hey Sarah Palin! You were ALLLL FOR THIS DURING THE ELECTION so how's that working for Bristol, who's pregnant and unwed AGAIN (seriously, this week)?

Or Let's talk about slut shaming a college student in front of the US Senate, because she was pro BIRTH CONTROL.

My blood pressure is going up, I have to stop . . . but I'll be back.

 

[Calliecake]

ILander, I was reading about Bristol Palin today. Were you aware Bristol received over $250,000 for promoting abstinence!!! Not to mention all the people she has called out for not sharing her views. Keep talking about abstinence honey. The world sees its working really well for you.

It is appalling to me that a rapist would be given parental rights. We have such a long way to go in this country.

I dread the thought of another election season and having to listen to republicans going on about our reproductive rights and their sickening comments about rape.

 

[Diamondboy11685]

I find it strange that the tread celebrating marriage equality was taken down, but that wasn't.... I don't get it.

 

[Paz]

I find it strange that the tread celebrating marriage equality was taken down, but that wasn't.... I don't get it.

My feeling is that it was taken down because there was too much talk about religion, and maybe some politics too.

 

[Diamondboy11685]

I find it strange that the tread celebrating marriage equality was taken down, but that wasn't.... I don't get it.

My feeling is that it was taken down because there was too much talk about religion, and maybe some politics too.

Like this thread...???

 

[Paz]

I find it strange that the tread celebrating marriage equality was taken down, but that wasn't.... I don't get it.

My feeling is that it was taken down because there was too much talk about religion, and maybe some politics too.

Like this thread...???

I don't think religion has been brought up in this thread, and I sincerely hope we can discuss the topic of women's equality, without dragging that other stuff into it.

Giving celebratory hugs to you Diamondboy! I am truly happy for you and all the SC ruling means to everyone.

 

[missy]

Kristie, my sister, my friend and my sweet NIRDI! Thank you for bringing up this incredibly important topic. It is the last accepted form of discrimination to be sure and it needs to be changed. We have come a long way but still have a way to go.

 

[anne_h]

Agreed.

On this subject, I highly recommend the books "Lean In" by Sheryl Sandberg and "Half the Sky" by Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn.

I'm a big believer in taking personal responsibility for making concrete actions toward change. I feel I can make the biggest impact professionally... I'm in a leadership role, so have scope to make contributions through my own business decisions and/or influencing others. I am also a volunteer mentor to young women in business.

I personally found it helpful to *understand* the biases and history, what is going on and why, so I could react more logically instead of from a place of frustration. The books helped, and I also did a lot of personal research which included various academic studies. The day I googled "male privilege" was an interesting moment, to say the least...

There are also many great programs available for supporting disadvantaged women and girls internationally. Another wonderful channel to support change on a global level.

Anne

 

[Calliecake]

One thing I have noticed and I sincerely hope it is not he norm, is that the young woman today seem to not care all that much about this topic and it affect their whole future, The equal pay situation has been mention once in a great while by my nieces who are young women buy nothing elese. The company I worked for was located right next to a clinic where abortions were performed and it was an eye opening experience for me. There were people who sat in lawn chairs in front of the clinic every day heckling these poor woman, without have any knowledge of what this poor woman situation was or her mental state. The screamed awful things to these young women. The police were called there all time. I spoke with one young male officer as I was walking to my car and asked if anything could be legally done to make them go away. Unfortunateky there was nothing they could do.

I really could care what side of the fence you sit on politically, why can't people show compassion for others. I can't imagine a more difficult and heartbreaking situation a young woman could be in.

 

[azstonie]

We still have a political party that feels they have right to make decisions for our bodies! Seriously, what year is it????

YES! And this isn't even a passing conversation in other developed countries any more, not even the heavily Catholic ones. Abortion and birth control are a dead issue in Europe and Scandinavia, the UK.

So who is keeping this issue burning here?

ETA: I did mention the religious far right here as funded by Corporate America. I then read back to see comments asking to keep religion separate from Women's Rights.

There was discussion recently about the War on Women. Who got that War started? Who is paying for the War?

Kenny, thank you for throwing in your support. Much appreciated.

 

[iLander]

I find it strange that the tread celebrating marriage equality was taken down, but that wasn't.... I don't get it.

My feeling is that it was taken down because there was too much talk about religion, and maybe some politics too.

Like this thread...???

We usually get some leeway on politics, it's religion that really upsets the mods.

 

[OreoRosies86]

This is a fantastic comic that really simplifies everyday sexual harrassment. Well worth a look.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/robot-hugs-sexual-harassment-comic_n_5671532.html

 

[iLander]

Agreed.

On this subject, I highly recommend the books "Lean In" by Sheryl Sandberg and "Half the Sky" by Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn.

I'm a big believer in taking personal responsibility for making concrete actions toward change. I feel I can make the biggest impact professionally... I'm in a leadership role, so have scope to make contributions through my own business decisions and/or influencing others. I am also a volunteer mentor to young women in business.

I personally found it helpful to *understand* the biases and history, what is going on and why, so I could react more logically instead of from a place of frustration. The books helped, and I also did a lot of personal research which included various academic studies. The day I googled "male privilege" was an interesting moment, to say the least...

There are also many great programs available for supporting disadvantaged women and girls internationally. Another wonderful channel to support change on a global level.

Anne

Good, I'm glad you're carrying the banner forward, Anne. I remember when DH and I started our own company in the early '80's, I was the front man (and everyone assumed that I was the only one in charge) and the blow back was strong and powerful. The worst were the salesmen for other companies, being as uncooperative and disagreeable as possible. Here was a woman, telling a bunch of men, that our mutual client wanted this done exactly this way. (Basically the client was outsourcing projects to us, and the salesmen's companies had to pay us). They couldn't take it out on our mutual client, they could only complain to me. It was awful, I got yelled at many times, and I got a "reputation" as a bitchy woman. I really don't think that a man would have been labeled, or yelled at, or harassed. I stood up to them day in and day out, for over 3000 projects over a 20 year period. The first 5 years were awful, some days I came home and cried. The '90's rolled around, and the show Murphy Brown I think helped a lot. A strong woman figure, getting things done, was finally seen on TV.

Before we started the company, my first job was working for a female boss (also a trailblazer, self-employed from the early 1970's) who DELIBERATELY never learned to type. She said "If they think you can type, you will be in the typing pool and never go anywhere with your life". She taught me how to talk nicely but FIRMLY to men if you wanted things done. Because otherwise they would smile a little, chuckle to themselves and ignore you. Completely ignore you and what you wanted done. And no one would question them about it.

It was an interesting time. I'm glad it's over and things are so much better now, 30+ years later. My post is not an academic study, but maybe it helped you see things from the trenches, where we were.

 

[Ella]

The other thread was removed for the entire page that was about religious wrangling. We do not allow it nor the type of degrading comments that were made by some users.

Keep this thread clean and away from political party fighting if you want this one to remain.

 

[Calliecake]

The other thread was removed for the entire page that was about religious wrangling. We do not allow it nor the type of degrading comments that were made by some users.

Keep this thread clean and away from political party fighting if you want this one to remain.

Hi Ella,

Would comments regarding political parties be accepted in the posts if this thread were moved to Around The World? Or would you prefer to not allow any political discussion on this topic at all? I would hate to have your job Ella.

Callie

 

[Ella]

The other thread was removed for the entire page that was about religious wrangling. We do not allow it nor the type of degrading comments that were made by some users.

Keep this thread clean and away from political party fighting if you want this one to remain.

Hi Ella,

Would comments regarding political parties be accepted in the posts if this thread were moved to Around The World? Or would you prefer to not allow any political discussion on this topic at all? I would hate to have your job Ella.

Callie

We are allowing LIMITED political discussion in ATW. So that would be fine. But we still don't allow religious debates or bashing regardless of the thread location.

 

[iLander]

This is a fantastic comic that really simplifies everyday sexual harrassment. Well worth a look.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/robot-hugs-sexual-harassment-comic_n_5671532.html

Loved this Elliot, I'm posting for all to see. Some may be able to drag it to their desktops and magnify it to read it. Or just click through.



But also loved the #yesallwomen hashtag on the bottom that brought up so many issues. I suggest that everyone click through on those slides, it brings the points home, everything we're saying in this thread. This made me maddest;

Because when girls go to college they're buying pepper spray and rape whistles while guys are buying condoms #yesallwomen

I recently read an article that college rape is usually witnessed by many others, and these witnesses rarely try to stop the rape or intercede. Because it isn't "cool". OMG, that's ridiculous. I am ashamed for the moms and dads that raised these boys to believe any of this was okay. I am ashamed that the colleges rarely prosecute these rapists. Because there are "no witnesses". Bull. There are witnesses.

EXPLAIN to me why all this is still true? It's like men are animals and women are their prey. My DH finds this so insulting, that these men make his gender look so bad.