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Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fired!

iheartscience

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

VRBeauty|1331795832|3149067 said:
VRBeauty|1331752442|3148609 said:
I trust you're all catching the sarcasm in this bill - it's not intended as a new law, but as a statement.

I stand corrected. :oops: I looked into it some more, and it appears this woman is serious. :shock:

Oy.

Never underestimate the GOP's desire to legislate women's rights out of existence.
 

vc10um

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

packrat|1331764807|3148761 said:
So..then women should band together and NOT HAVE SEX. Not w/their husbands, their fiances, boyfriends, nobody. It won't be too long before the men are sportin the ole blue balls and remembering just how not fun that is, and they'll realize the folly of their ways.

Those Greeks sure knew what they were doing, didn't they???
 

iLander

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Well, I'm going to do what I can, and I hope others will consider it.

The National Organization for Women is old-timey, since 1966, but I'm pretty sure they're all we've got.

Whenever I purchase from Amazon, I'm going through this portal on their site:

http://www.now.org/store/amazon.html?srce=aznwln

It will support their efforts, and doesn't cost me any extra.

At least it's something.

I feel sorry for women living in these stupid states with the stupid laws . . . I just hope we don't all become women living in that stupid country with their stupid laws. :shock:
 

movie zombie

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

iLander|1331824171|3149222 said:
....I feel sorry for women living in these stupid states with the stupid laws . . . I just hope we don't all become women living in that stupid country with their stupid laws. :shock:



amen, sister, amen.
 

Circe

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Ilander, I think the "War on Women" phrasing is so apt it hurts. It used to be my go-to worst-case scenario to reference Margaret Atwood and The Handmaiden's Tale, but now it's seeming less outrageous.

I keep oscillating back and forth between thinking all this nonsense is rooted in intense misogyny, and being unable to wrap my head around the idea that, 40 years later, a groundswell of hatred for women that's this intensehas finally burst. My current theory is that it's less hatred than it is contempt: that these legislators looked around resignedly, realized that some degree of global healthcare was desired by the majority and would be put into play, but felt that they couldn't just cave to what the other side had been advocating all along... so they tried to pick a worthless issue to fight over so they could look reasonable about agreeing to the rest. Problem is, their chosen "worthless" issue, women's health, is actually kind of important to a segment of the population, and a segment that even happens to vote. Sort of like the Apple programmers who didn't think about programming Siri to recognize any terms relating to female health, but did go into detail about issues that matter to men, like recognizing key phrases indicating a dude might want an escort service. Less active malevolence, and more a pernicious side effect.

Then again, that could just be the last shred of my desire to believe the best of people. And it's sad that "the best" in this case is contempt as compared to hatred.

One thing I just read about that I found interesting: why not simply take it out of employers/state/federal hands and make birth control over-the-counter? It's less dangerous than a lot of other things that we buy without a second thought, like, say, aspirin, so ... what's the down side?
 

iheartscience

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Circe|1331824997|3149233 said:
Ilander, I think the "War on Women" phrasing is so apt it hurts. It used to be my go-to worst-case scenario to reference Margaret Atwood and The Handmaiden's Tale, but now it's seeming less outrageous.

I keep oscillating back and forth between thinking all this nonsense is rooted in intense misogyny, and being unable to wrap my head around the idea that, 40 years later, a groundswell of hatred for women that's this intensehas finally burst. My current theory is that it's less hatred than it is contempt: that these legislators looked around resignedly, realized that some degree of global healthcare was desired by the majority and would be put into play, but felt that they couldn't just cave to what the other side had been advocating all along... so they tried to pick a worthless issue to fight over so they could look reasonable about agreeing to the rest. Problem is, their chosen "worthless" issue, women's health, is actually kind of important to a segment of the population, and a segment that even happens to vote. Sort of like the Apple programmers who didn't think about programming Siri to recognize any terms relating to female health, but did go into detail about issues that matter to men, like recognizing key phrases indicating a dude might want an escort service. Less active malevolence, and more a pernicious side effect.

Then again, that could just be the last shred of my desire to believe the best of people. And it's sad that "the best" in this case is contempt as compared to hatred.

One thing I just read about that I found interesting: why not simply take it out of employers/state/federal hands and make birth control over-the-counter? It's less dangerous than a lot of other things that we buy without a second thought, like, say, aspirin, so ... what's the down side?

Well said as always. The only things I can articulate on the subject wouldn't conform to PS community standards. ASKLD;FASDL;FJASDLJKF;AFJKL;ASDJFL;ASDFJL;ASKD
 

StacylikesSparkles

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I've been wondering what the hell is wrong with people for a few weeks now! Watch a little Hardball with Chris Matthews and you'll see how crazy these new GOP candidates are with the issue of women's health. It's scary and crazy and the sad fact is that this issue is not getting nearly enough coverage as it warrants. Spread the word folks, do you really want to follow what a politician suggests over a doctor?
 

HollyS

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Geez. Us. Doesn't Arizona have enough problems without this . . . tyrannical overreach?? This is a ridiculous violation of basic civil rights and personal privacy.

Remind me never to move there.
 

Imdanny

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

vc10um|1331819484|3149171 said:
packrat|1331764807|3148761 said:
So..then women should band together and NOT HAVE SEX. Not w/their husbands, their fiances, boyfriends, nobody. It won't be too long before the men are sportin the ole blue balls and remembering just how not fun that is, and they'll realize the folly of their ways.

Those Greeks sure knew what they were doing, didn't they???

:appl:
 

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vc10um

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Has everyone been following Doonesbury this week? I know some papers are publishing an alternate storyline, but the original strips Gary Trudeau drew for this week are still being run in some papers and are available online (link to Monday's...hit "Next" to continue through the series). He posted Rick Perry's spokesWOMAN's response to the strips on the website as well:

"The decision to end a life is not funny. There is nothing comic about this tasteless interpretation of legislation we have passed in Texas to ensure that women have all the facts when making a life-ending decision." :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

smitcompton

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Hi,

Sorry Circe, I don't agree that men or legislators hate us. They want control, that is always what they want. Power is the name of the game and as most people have found only a group voice seems to make a difference. Maybe it is time to resurrect NOW. It was effective in the 1970;s and early 80's. and then it seemed to fade over internal differences.

Its hard for me to believe this happening now. Thinking about this we may have exert our 2nd amendent rights and take up arms(I'm not sure its the 1st or 2nd)

AMC80---thank you for pointing out that an ultrasound shows no life early on. Of course I think most woman would be opposed to to a transvaginal procedure at all.


I third or fourth the idea that these are creepy times indeed.



Annette
 

amc80

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

smitcompton|1331834631|3149341 said:
AMC80---thank you for pointing out that an ultrasound shows no life early on. Of course I think most woman would be opposed to to a transvaginal procedure at all.

I don't think that's what I said. I was saying the reason why it has to be a transvaginal u/s is because an abdominal u/s won't show anything early on. If at, say, 6 weeks a women had an abdominal u/s, nothing would show, but a transvaginal u/s would likely show a heartbeat. If the bill didn't specify which type of u/s had to be used, then anyone getting an abdominal u/s wouldn't see anything anyway, so it would be pointless. And transvag ultrasounds aren't horrible. I mean I wouldn't have one for fun, but they are no worse than a pap. And (from what I've heard) nowhere near as bad as a D&C, which is what someone would end up having if they wanted an abortion beyond a certain point anyway.
 

Circe

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

amc80|1331836208|3149387 said:
smitcompton|1331834631|3149341 said:
AMC80---thank you for pointing out that an ultrasound shows no life early on. Of course I think most woman would be opposed to to a transvaginal procedure at all.

I don't think that's what I said. I was saying the reason why it has to be a transvaginal u/s is because an abdominal u/s won't show anything early on. If at, say, 6 weeks a women had an abdominal u/s, nothing would show, but a transvaginal u/s would likely show a heartbeat. If the bill didn't specify which type of u/s had to be used, then anyone getting an abdominal u/s wouldn't see anything anyway, so it would be pointless. And transvag ultrasounds aren't horrible. I mean I wouldn't have one for fun, but they are no worse than a pap. And (from what I've heard) nowhere near as bad as a D&C, which is what someone would end up having if they wanted an abortion beyond a certain point anyway.

I think the key here is that they aren't horrible for you. For a woman who's a rape survivor? It might be another story. Hell, I remember a thread in FH&H recently where women were posting about anxiety and feeling physical pain at the gyno just as a matter of course.

I think the key is that under other circumstances, people get to decide which medical procedures they're going to have. Here, to get treatment, women HAVE to have the transvaginal ultrasound, whether they like it or not. It's pretty invasive.

P.S. - I had them, too, and I have to say, they ARE worse than pap smears: I never had a gyno dig around with his little swab to get the right angle.

P.P.S. - At the point where a person would need a D&C, they'd be able to have an abdominal US.
 

amc80

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Circe|1331836548|3149399 said:
amc80|1331836208|3149387 said:
smitcompton|1331834631|3149341 said:
AMC80---thank you for pointing out that an ultrasound shows no life early on. Of course I think most woman would be opposed to to a transvaginal procedure at all.

I don't think that's what I said. I was saying the reason why it has to be a transvaginal u/s is because an abdominal u/s won't show anything early on. If at, say, 6 weeks a women had an abdominal u/s, nothing would show, but a transvaginal u/s would likely show a heartbeat. If the bill didn't specify which type of u/s had to be used, then anyone getting an abdominal u/s wouldn't see anything anyway, so it would be pointless. And transvag ultrasounds aren't horrible. I mean I wouldn't have one for fun, but they are no worse than a pap. And (from what I've heard) nowhere near as bad as a D&C, which is what someone would end up having if they wanted an abortion beyond a certain point anyway.

I think the key here is that they aren't horrible for you. For a woman who's a rape survivor? It might be another story. Hell, I remember a thread in FH&H recently where women were posting about anxiety and feeling physical pain at the gyno just as a matter of course.

I think the key is that under other circumstances, people get to decide which medical procedures they're going to have. Here, to get treatment, women HAVE to have the transvaginal ultrasound, whether they like it or not. It's pretty invasive.

P.S. - I had them, too, and I have to say, they ARE worse than pap smears: I never had a gyno dig around with his little swab to get the right angle.

P.P.S. - At the point where a person would need a D&C, they'd be able to have an abdominal US.

I think I need to bow out of this thread...way to touchy of a subject. Happy debating, folks!
 

Circe

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

amc80|1331836664|3149400 said:
Circe|1331836548|3149399 said:
amc80|1331836208|3149387 said:
smitcompton|1331834631|3149341 said:
AMC80---thank you for pointing out that an ultrasound shows no life early on. Of course I think most woman would be opposed to to a transvaginal procedure at all.

I don't think that's what I said. I was saying the reason why it has to be a transvaginal u/s is because an abdominal u/s won't show anything early on. If at, say, 6 weeks a women had an abdominal u/s, nothing would show, but a transvaginal u/s would likely show a heartbeat. If the bill didn't specify which type of u/s had to be used, then anyone getting an abdominal u/s wouldn't see anything anyway, so it would be pointless. And transvag ultrasounds aren't horrible. I mean I wouldn't have one for fun, but they are no worse than a pap. And (from what I've heard) nowhere near as bad as a D&C, which is what someone would end up having if they wanted an abortion beyond a certain point anyway.

I think the key here is that they aren't horrible for you. For a woman who's a rape survivor? It might be another story. Hell, I remember a thread in FH&H recently where women were posting about anxiety and feeling physical pain at the gyno just as a matter of course.

I think the key is that under other circumstances, people get to decide which medical procedures they're going to have. Here, to get treatment, women HAVE to have the transvaginal ultrasound, whether they like it or not. It's pretty invasive.

P.S. - I had them, too, and I have to say, they ARE worse than pap smears: I never had a gyno dig around with his little swab to get the right angle.

P.P.S. - At the point where a person would need a D&C, they'd be able to have an abdominal US.

I think I need to bow out of this thread...way to touchy of a subject. Happy debating, folks!

Fair enough - hope I didn't say anything that hurt your feelings. The topic in general does tend to be kinda near to my heart.
 

iheartscience

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Circe|1331836548|3149399 said:
amc80|1331836208|3149387 said:
smitcompton|1331834631|3149341 said:
AMC80---thank you for pointing out that an ultrasound shows no life early on. Of course I think most woman would be opposed to to a transvaginal procedure at all.

I don't think that's what I said. I was saying the reason why it has to be a transvaginal u/s is because an abdominal u/s won't show anything early on. If at, say, 6 weeks a women had an abdominal u/s, nothing would show, but a transvaginal u/s would likely show a heartbeat. If the bill didn't specify which type of u/s had to be used, then anyone getting an abdominal u/s wouldn't see anything anyway, so it would be pointless. And transvag ultrasounds aren't horrible. I mean I wouldn't have one for fun, but they are no worse than a pap. And (from what I've heard) nowhere near as bad as a D&C, which is what someone would end up having if they wanted an abortion beyond a certain point anyway.

I think the key here is that they aren't horrible for you. For a woman who's a rape survivor? It might be another story. Hell, I remember a thread in FH&H recently where women were posting about anxiety and feeling physical pain at the gyno just as a matter of course.

I think the key is that under other circumstances, people get to decide which medical procedures they're going to have. Here, to get treatment, women HAVE to have the transvaginal ultrasound, whether they like it or not. It's pretty invasive.

P.S. - I had them, too, and I have to say, they ARE worse than pap smears: I never had a gyno dig around with his little swab to get the right angle.

P.P.S. - At the point where a person would need a D&C, they'd be able to have an abdominal US.


Ditto all of this again. And I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I've had a transvaginal ultrasound and it was VERY uncomfortable.
 

iLander

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

The point is not the procedure.The point is the legislation of the procedure.

This is where the men always get us; we start to get into tiffs about what is not the point, and then the conversation is over.

The point is; it's not for a bunch of lawmen (which I could have sworn wanted to get re-elected :rolleyes: ) to get between a woman and her doctor.

Plus there's no room in my hoo-haa for all those old men! :lol: (I should sell T-shirts with that phrase)
 

amc80

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Circe|1331837404|3149416 said:
Fair enough - hope I didn't say anything that hurt your feelings.
Not at all :)
 

ericad

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

My brother is a Liberal living in Arizona, so I asked him about this (I couldn't believe it was real!)

Here's his take on it:

"While it's very much real, the bill isn't going anywhere. But it's part of the republican agenda to introduce crazy legislation all over the country in an attempt to pull the country farther to the right. While these extreme proposals are going nowhere in most states, when less extreme but very much right-wing legislation comes along they are hoping that liberals and democrats will breathe a sigh of relief and say "well thank god that isn't a radical plan, let's do it". They are trying to change the starting point of negotiations from the middle to the extreme right."

I found it to be an interesting and insightful perspective and, if true, something that we all should be mindful of.
 

ericad

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

iLander|1331840238|3149447 said:
Plus there's no room in my hoo-haa for all those old men! :lol: (I should sell T-shirts with that phrase)

Or maybe if all women who are impacted by this type of nonsensical legislation and anti-female agenda wore t-shirts that simply say, "I'm a whore" the impact would be felt around the nation. I'd wear one. My 65 year old mother would wear one. A lot of people's mamas would wear them. A lot of daughters too. Ever taken birth control pills? You're a whore. Ever had sex for any reason other than making babies? Whore. Ever had an abortion? Close your legs, you whore! I guess that makes me a trifecta of whore-iness. Maybe next they'll take women like me and stone us to death in a public square.
 

movie zombie

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

smitcompton|1331834631|3149341 said:
...... Its hard for me to believe this happening now. Thinking about this we may have exert our 2nd amendent rights and take up arms(I'm not sure its the 1st or 2nd).... Annette


1st amendment regards free speech
2nd amendment regards right to bear arms.

yes, the far right scares me shelless and is a primary reason i have purchased guns.

gun sales among women is the highest growing segment of gun sales....rifles and pistols.

i do not advocate violence. but our "mothers" who were suffragettes were beaten both in and out of jail. eventually, they got us voting rights. it was not until the 60's and 70's that we saw property rights/credit/etc extended to women.

i do believe in self-defense.

actually, i think many of these yahoos actually do hate women. for some its merely control. make no mistake: there are men that would disenfranchise women of the vote. i participate on a 99.9% male website and trust me, there are women haters out there.
 

Black Jade

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Isn't this politics, people?

I thought we weren't supposed to discuss politics.

It certainly isn't women's rights. Women have every right in the US to use birth control and no one has been discussing taking this right away, not the state of ARizona and not the Catholic church, either. The issue is that there is a movement going on to define birth control as a 'women's health' and to make other people pay for said birth control, which is you know, a clear violation of the right to religious liberty in the United States, if the employer (Catholic college or hospital or etc) follows Catholic doctrine, and thus believes that contraception is a sin.

Plus there is the question of why ANYONE is supposed to be paying for anyone else's birth control to begin with. Me and my husband chose to practice contraception--and we bought our own. If you choose to practice contraception, why not go down to the local Walmart and get a month supply of generic birth control pills for $8? Why insist that someone else has to pay and that it is somehow 'bad health' to be pregnant? I fail to see why the government (other taxpayers) should pay for what you decide to do in that regard and it is certianly WAY over the line to demand that when it violates someone else's religion, THEY should pay. If you happen to work for a Catholic institution, you knew they weren't going to pay for your birth control when they hired you--unless you live under a rock. So--worik somewhere else or buy your own. Du-uh.

I don't have a thing against birth control--I used it, which is why I have three children instead of more. But I don't want to pay for yours. I certainly don't want the Catholic Church to have to pay for anybody's. I work at a Catholic institution, which is very good place to work by the way and I think they should be treated with as much respect for their beliefs as if they were a Buddhist or Muslim institution. I would not go to a Muslim Instituion that I worked for, and start demanding that they pay for my supply of barbecued pork--even though I have a right to eat pork, of course. You know? and if there was a barbecue joint jsut down the street where pok sandwiches cost like 50 cents a sandwich and I coudln't go eat there without making demands of my employers, I would be being a provocateur, woulldn't I/ With an axe to grind that had nothing to do with my rights as individual whose molars show that I was created as a meat-eating entity.

I will stay with the brith control issue. I will not discuss abortion, which I am very much against, as a taking of a human life and which I really and truly RESENT paying for with my tax dollars as we currently all have to, however unspeakable we find it.
 

Circe

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

BJ, I think you've got it backwards. Religious freedom doesn't just mean that the tenets of the dominant religion are respected: it means that they're balanced out against the general good. The problem with employers, religious or otherwise, opting not to cover birth control pills (via the insurance that is paid for out of employees paychecks, in part) is that it's discrimination against women. Most health insurance will cover Viagra, which is basically "just for sex," but not birth control, which is used off-label for a variety of health issues, from endometriosis to fibroid cysts to pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder to acne.

None of which is an employers business. And, no, it's not politics - everybody on-thread has been very careful not to mention specific politicians by name. Current events are still allowed, no?

ETA: The pill is eight bucks with insurance copay. Without it, it's considerably more expensive.
 

ericad

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Doesn't most insurance cover vasectomies? The sole purpose of a vasectomy is to prevent pregnancy. Is that included in this anti-birth control legislation (I'm not being flip, I actually don't know the answer and need to look it up.)
 

kenny

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

ericad|1331841912|3149457 said:
My brother is a Liberal living in Arizona, so I asked him about this (I couldn't believe it was real!)

Here's his take on it:

"While it's very much real, the bill isn't going anywhere. But it's part of the republican agenda to introduce crazy legislation all over the country in an attempt to pull the country farther to the right. While these extreme proposals are going nowhere in most states, when less extreme but very much right-wing legislation comes along they are hoping that liberals and democrats will breathe a sigh of relief and say "well thank god that isn't a radical plan, let's do it". They are trying to change the starting point of negotiations from the middle to the extreme right."

I found it to be an interesting and insightful perspective and, if true, something that we all should be mindful of.


Wow, creepy times indeed!
 

ericad

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

And actually, BJ, the original post of this thread relates specifically to legislation being proposed in AZ, allowing any employer the right to terminate a female employee for using birth control unless she provides proof that it's being used for non-sexual reasons. It's not about religious employers and tax payers being required to cover birth control, though that is a worthy discussion in itself.

I can only assume that the AZ legislation will apply to the use of Viagra and vasectomy? That all male employees will be required to submit proof that they are only using Viagra for procreation and that their vasectomy was medically necessary for reasons OTHER than birth control, or else they will lose their jobs? If this isn't the case, how can it be perceived as anything other than an attack on women?
 

monarch64

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Black Jade, you're right, this thread IS political in nature. I reported my concern and was ignored although as I understand Pricescope's policy it says that we are not to discuss politics. Oh well. These issues being brought up NOW is an attempt at derailment from the other important issues our nation needs to fix. I personally do not feel like there is a war on women and while that may be some people's experience, I have lived peacefully in this country for the past 34 years without my life being affected due to gender. I make more and have more opportunities in my place of work than the males who have more experience and tenure than me (in the exact same position), for ONE example. The bigger issue I am interested in out of ALL OF THIS is education. WHEN are we going to use a common sense approach to teaching students about their bodies and biology? If everyone would stop arguing and trying to band-aid things and get back to the basics of educating our society...helloooooo.
 

Pandora II

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Circe - in the UK contraceptives are provided free of charge to all women.

I must admit that I find it very odd that this kind of thing goes on in the 21st century - who the heck votes for these kind of warped people?
 

monarch64

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Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Pandora, we can't discuss religion on PS either, which is why I can't answer your question of who the hell votes for these warped people. It would certainly be utopian of us all to live and let live, but with so many differing viewpoints/beliefs/cultures/etc. that ain't gonna happen. So I say, can we please fix the unemployment and money problems we have and let everyone live their lives and make their own choices without infringing on others' rights? I just don't know why it has to be so difficult and I know I am oversimplifying things but maybe that's what we need--less intervention. Ok, I'm done here.
 
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