Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fired!

[Circe]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Bee, I'm curious - what's the solution, in your perspective? Can you suggest a better course of action?

I'm not asking what people "should" do - I've gotten that you think that we should all pay for ourselves, each man is an island, no cooperative effort, etc., etc.

But in the society that we HAVE, where we pay taxes and social programs exist and children born to unwilling or incapable parents will partake of social programs and your tax dollars and what-have-you ... outside of doing what we can to help people limit their family sizes to make the most of our resources, what's your solution?

If you just want to express dissatisfaction with the state of affairs, that's cool - I like to complain about human stupidity, too (in different contexts, such as walking four abreast and blocking the top of the subway stairs for one last text and being incapable of understanding the context of an "indoor voice"). But I am curious what alternatives you'd suggest.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Well, I'd love to discuss this, but I may have mentioned that I post political stuff in a nearly-all-male political forum, and have discussed it nearly to death. And I can assure you, the views are night and day between men an women on this issue. With the exception of a few of the men there, especially one whose wife is an ob/gyn, the level of open misogyny and glaring ignorance of female anatomy and physiology is pretty stunning. And depressing. I've kinda bowed out of that topic there.

I'm sorry to hear that. I too post on an almost all-male forum with a political 'tab' and have experienced the opposite. The vast majority are firmly in support of our 'side,' even more so with each ridiculous bill.

While there is some variation, and there are both sides of the political fence represented there, I suspect the base interest of this particular forum makes it VERY safe to say that the demographic there is exclusively white, middle-aged, and far more affluent than average.

 

[kenny]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Well, I'd love to discuss this, but I may have mentioned that I post political stuff in a nearly-all-male political forum, and have discussed it nearly to death. And I can assure you, the views are night and day between men an women on this issue. With the exception of a few of the men there, especially one whose wife is an ob/gyn, the level of open misogyny and glaring ignorance of female anatomy and physiology is pretty stunning. And depressing. I've kinda bowed out of that topic there.

I'm sorry to hear that. I too post on an almost all-male forum with a political 'tab' and have experienced the opposite. The vast majority are firmly in support of our 'side,' even more so with each ridiculous bill.

Maybe EB's forum leans left and Ksinger's leans right.
Just a guess.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Well, I'd love to discuss this, but I may have mentioned that I post political stuff in a nearly-all-male political forum, and have discussed it nearly to death. And I can assure you, the views are night and day between men an women on this issue. With the exception of a few of the men there, especially one whose wife is an ob/gyn, the level of open misogyny and glaring ignorance of female anatomy and physiology is pretty stunning. And depressing. I've kinda bowed out of that topic there.

I'm sorry to hear that. I too post on an almost all-male forum with a political 'tab' and have experienced the opposite. The vast majority are firmly in support of our 'side,' even more so with each ridiculous bill.

While there is some variation, and there are both sides of the political fence represented there, I suspect the base interest of this particular forum makes it VERY safe to say that the demographic there is exclusively white, middle-aged, and far more affluent than average.

I think you would have to ask DancingFire about the demographic here. He has been the tab-keeper amongst us all these years.

 

[Imdanny]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

And a reminder to all of us that the primary issue is not who uses BC and who pays for it. As Kenny said pages ago -- it's about power and who wields it.

Exactly, and I'd like to add when your employer "pays for" your health insurance, your employer is not giving you a gift. Health insurance is part of compensation (not wages per se). As such, you are the one who is compensated for your work in part with health insurance. The same is true about "government programs" the rules for which apply to everyone. You pay taxes from 18-65. That's 47 years of paying payroll taxes to get Medicare (for instance). Many people (not only on this forum) seem to feel that "someone else" is paying so if they "did something for you" (like "gave" you BC pills) they're doing you some favor. That's not how insurance works, whether it's private or government, whether it's employer provided insurance or a social insurance program.

Agreed. Insurance isn't a gift. It's a benefit. And one that's offered at an employers discretion. While some may have to offer membership into a group plan, there's no law (until 2014) that says they have to pay for it...at which point many businesses will be forced into bankruptcy or total failure...but that's a whole other story and one that will "benefit" very few.

Well, actually in my state (Hawaii) where it's mandated for companies with 20 or more employees, no terrible thing has happened at all. The contrary, we rank very high among the states in terms of percent covered and I believe I've read we have relatively low insurance costs. Plus, our Medicaid program isn't paying for large corporations' schemes to dump low paid employees on taxpayers.

And I'm not aware of any business, large corporation or small business that has been forced out of business or pulled out of our state. Seriously, if our law was "bad for business" I think it would be changed in a New York minute. People here aren't "dumb" about the need for businesses to prosper. It's a very isolated place. We couldn't afford to be.

Having said that, I don't know what the new laws says/ is going to do- I did not support it after learning everything I could about it.

 

[perry]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I set out Saturday to read the entire thread before posting. I was not successful as I did not have the time. Please forgive me if some of this has been covered.

Here are my thoughts:

First the law is ridiculous. But, the reason behind the law is that an older group of people honestly believe that women should not have nearly the rights they have - and really do want to control women – and believe that you control people and gain power by restricting people’s actions. I believe you better control people by giving them what they want.

What is equally frightening is that many of these people claim a religious background and/or reason. I have read and studied the bible from cover to cover (including learning about the background culture so I could understand context). I cannot find the messages these people usually preach in the bible. They often take a line here, a half a sentence there, etc to build their case. I could use the Encyclopaedia Britannica to prove the world was flat and that airplanes could not fly with that method if it were valid.

I personally believe that the reason for the push now is that these people have realized that if they don't pass such laws now that in another 10-20 years the younger generations will gain political dominance and all such opportunities will be lost.

Overall, religious intolerance has created more strife and killed more people than any other reason in the history of the world. This is just more of the same by people who are so convinced that they are “right.”

Edited to add: The trend of the republican party attacking womans rights is very disturbing to me. I once thought of entering local and potentially state politics as a "moderate" republican. In our state moderates have mostly been pushed out of the republican party. I find it amazing that the same people who talk of the need for business freedom and support for the 2nd ammendment, also support restricting personal liberties so much. Ugggg. To me: Freedom and rights are the same regardless of subject.


Have a great day,

Perry

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

[quote="ksinger|1332110229|3151598]

While there is some variation, and there are both sides of the political fence represented there, I suspect the base interest of this particular forum makes it VERY safe to say that the demographic there is exclusively white, middle-aged, and far more affluent than average.[/quote]

I suspect we have a healthy representation of people who would consider themselves Asian, and many PS participants are younger an not so affluent because they find PS while looking for engagement rings. Of course they might have reached middle-aged and become better off by the time they discover the "hangout."

 

[ksinger]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

[quote="ksinger|1332110229|3151598]

While there is some variation, and there are both sides of the political fence represented there, I suspect the base interest of this particular forum makes it VERY safe to say that the demographic there is exclusively white, middle-aged, and far more affluent than average.

I suspect we have a healthy representation of people who would consider themselves Asian, and many PS participants are younger an not so affluent because they find PS while looking for engagement rings. Of course they might have reached middle-aged and become better off by the time they discover the "hangout." [/quote][/quote][/quote]


I was referring to the OTHER forum I post in, not PS. I know PS has a bigger cross section from various countries, although it is still mostly affluent or from the ranks of soon-to-be affluent or at least middle class, since the vast majority of posters here (in hangout) have degrees or are working toward one or more. Most have highspeed internet (or internet at ALL). Right there that tells me that we here are not represent a true cross-section of the US population.

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

[quote="ksinger|1332110229|3151598]

While there is some variation, and there are both sides of the political fence represented there, I suspect the base interest of this particular forum makes it VERY safe to say that the demographic there is exclusively white, middle-aged, and far more affluent than average.

I suspect we have a healthy representation of people who would consider themselves Asian, and many PS participants are younger an not so affluent because they find PS while looking for engagement rings. Of course they might have reached middle-aged and become better off by the time they discover the "hangout."

[/quote][/quote]


I was referring to the OTHER forum I post in, not PS. I know PS has a bigger cross section from various countries, although it is still mostly affluent or from the ranks of soon-to-be affluent or at least middle class, since the vast majority of posters here (in hangout) have degrees or are working toward one or more. Most have highspeed internet (or internet at ALL). Right there that tells me that we here are not represent a true cross-section of the US population.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

 

[Black Jade]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Comments interspersed.

If that's true then BC is a huge bargain for us taxpayers.

BC pills prevent abortions
They do not. No birth control is foolproof. And people are human. They get comfortable and sloppy after a while. They have sex when drunk and in other situations where they are not thinking. Sex leads to pregnancy sooner or later in an astonishing amount of cases, including among the educated, affluent and smug. In our current society, the solution to inconvenient pregnancy is abortion--in fact abortion could be said to be the 'backup' for birth control failing, which is so very likely to do as is well known by those who profit hugely financially from abortion, such as Planned Parenthood. Some of it is ideology with them but a lot more is $$$$.

and are MUCH cheaper than welfare & foodstamps for unwanted kids.

OK. So if they are so cheap, the people who are HAVING the sex can pay for them themselves? As they did before this new 'right' was discovered--about two weeks ago?
Ms. Fluke, for one, does not appear to me to be the sort of person who is likely to end up on welfare using foodstamps anytime soon.
She looks to me like the sort of person who is going to have an abortion if her (paid for by the Catholic church if she gets her spiteful way) birth control fails.
Morning after pill, anyone?
I believe this is going to be offered as 'contraception'. When it's actually abortion (and very unsafe for the woman using it, too).
And, as an older person, I can tell you that the amount of illegitimate kids (leading to said welfare and foodstamps) has, oddly enough, spiked since we have started being told the lie that you can have all the sex you want and that BC will 'protect' you (leave you kid-free). But of course you're going to say that the genie is out of the bottle now and can't be put back. Funny how people argue to let the genie out of the bottle and then when it's out, its--whoops! too bad. We now can't do anything about that--except more social engineering and more moral destruction.


When the unwanted welfare kids grow up probably a disproportionate number of them will be supported by our tax dollars in the prison system.

Maybe and maybe not. Being 'wanted' is actually not something that guarantees your quality of life. a surprising amount of 'unwanted' kids make valuable contributions to society--if allowed to live. I'm talking about AFTER the birth control fails here, in case that is not clear. Many have found that the 'unwanted' and unintended pregnancy leads to a child who is the delight of their life. Or someone else's life--adoption ought to be more of an option.
And your statement here is perilously close to saying that some have a right to live and some don't and that we can somehow know in advance what someone's quality of life will be--and then decide that they should not be born. No, you did not say this. But it's just a small step from what you did say.

Preventing unwanted pregnancy before they start is wise.
Abstinence will prevent some, and BC will prevent others.

Abstinence definitely prevents pregnancy. BC--not so much, as I stated above.

I don't care which people use, but clearly accepting both will be more effective since people vary.
Insisting on only one approach means some women will be left out and have unwanted pregnancies.

I repeat, sex makes women pregnant. Sex using BC cuts the rate to some extent and gives the illusion of safety--for a while. YOu really should not be having sex if you absolutely don't want to be pregnant. What we have going on in the US is a system where some are abstinent and thus not getting pregnant (a small minority) and a lot are not abstinent and are in socially sanctioned denial--and no one is saying what everyone knows--that the backup that makes this all work is abortion. Which doesn't prevent pregnancy--but does prevent babies. At least, most of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3adLns91_SQ&feature=relmfu
Wanting babies to be wanted is not eugenics.
It leads there quickly, though. Look how close you yourself are skating to it--I am sure without intending it. But you are on the slippery slope when you start thinking things like your statement above. that we will be feeding all the 'unwanted' babies in jail in 20 years. T

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Speaking of Eugenics, we should all remember this ironic fact--The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger was an enthusiastic and outspoken proponent of Eugenics. Her views on race and self-determination are ummm, "interesting" to say the least.

If anyone perpetrated a war on women, it was Ms. Sanger who somehow has been hailed as a "hero" by those that would have us believe they are unwaveringly "pro-women".

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

again, this thread is NOT about abortion but is all about birth control.
why the instance on taking it there?
in this "discussion" it is obvious that no one is changing anyone's mind regardless of facts or no facts.

 

[kenny]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Thanks for your comments Black Jade.

 

[Imdanny]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Speaking of Eugenics, we should all remember this ironic fact--The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger was an enthusiastic and outspoken proponent of Eugenics. Her views on race and self-determination are ummm, "interesting" to say the least.

If anyone perpetrated a war on women, it was Ms. Sanger who somehow has been hailed as a "hero" by those that would have us believe they are unwaveringly "pro-women".

I've heard that before, and I think it's very interesting.

BTW, I've read about how belief in eugenics used to be commonplace. US presidents, Supreme Court justices, university presidents, and on and on, have left their own writing proving beyond any shadow of a doubt (I mean it's explicit stuff, I was really shocked) they believed in eugenics, white supremacy, and the worldwide (moving westward) dominance of the Christian religion.

Scary.

 

[Maria D]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Morning after pill, anyone?
I believe this is going to be offered as 'contraception'. When it's actually abortion (and very unsafe for the woman using it, too).

I just want to point out that the "Morning After Pill" is most certainly contraception and not abortion. It disrupts ovulation and fertilization which is necessary for conception. Therefore, it prevents conception --the definition of contraception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception

I believe you are confusing it with the RU-486 pill which basically causes a pharmaceutically induced (as opposed to surgical) abortion.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Morning after pill, anyone?
I believe this is going to be offered as 'contraception'. When it's actually abortion (and very unsafe for the woman using it, too).

I just want to point out that the "Morning After Pill" is most certainly contraception and not abortion. It disrupts ovulation and fertilization which is necessary for conception. Therefore, it prevents conception --the definition of contraception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception

I believe you are confusing it with the RU-486 pill which basically causes a pharmaceutically induced (as opposed to surgical) abortion.

Ditto this - it is definitely contraception. The other option is having an IUD put in - also contraception not abortion.

It is also considerably safer than pregnancy and birth - which is one of the most dangerous things that any woman will do in her lifetime.

The morning-after pill is also offered free of charge in the UK and can be picked up from any GP or pharmacist. I know many, many women who have used it as a back-up when other methods of BC have failed.

 

[monarch64]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Morning after pill, anyone?
I believe this is going to be offered as 'contraception'. When it's actually abortion (and very unsafe for the woman using it, too).

I just want to point out that the "Morning After Pill" is most certainly contraception and not abortion. It disrupts ovulation and fertilization which is necessary for conception. Therefore, it prevents conception --the definition of contraception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception

I believe you are confusing it with the RU-486 pill which basically causes a pharmaceutically induced (as opposed to surgical) abortion.

Exactly. Thank you for pointing that out, MariaD.

 

[Circe]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

This newfound conflation of birth control and abortion is very scary to me. Both because it indicates a fundamental ignorance of really basic science, and because it shows just how good the propaganda machine has gotten: people outright ignore the information about how this stuff works because (I can only assume) something about the claim is emotionally appealing.

For me, the question is WHAT?

What is it that makes a large segment of the country roll back the clock and eliminate birth control and the progress it's given us? Is it just a slightly more entrenched version of damn kids get off my lawn where the past is another country and if we can just turn back time it will all get better again, or ... ?

P.S. - Question stands. If birth control is a terrible notion but we all admit we can't put the genie back in the bottle ... any concrete suggestions from the conservatives? Ladies keep an aspirin between your knees didn't work then, and it won't work now. So, again I say ...?

 

[monarch64]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Circe--chastity rings!!!

 

[kenny]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I'm waiting for a these creepy powerful people to tell us we must go back to the days of chastity belts so fathers can hand over the key to the husband on the wedding day.
Employers could check that all their female employee's belts are locked at the beginning of each shift.

I do believe this is all about power and men controlling women.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

right once again, kenny.

 

[E B]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Bee, I'm curious - what's the solution, in your perspective? Can you suggest a better course of action?

I'm not asking what people "should" do - I've gotten that you think that we should all pay for ourselves, each man is an island, no cooperative effort, etc., etc.

But in the society that we HAVE, where we pay taxes and social programs exist and children born to unwilling or incapable parents will partake of social programs and your tax dollars and what-have-you ... outside of doing what we can to help people limit their family sizes to make the most of our resources, what's your solution?

P.S. - Question stands. If birth control is a terrible notion but we all admit we can't put the genie back in the bottle ... any concrete suggestions from the conservatives? Ladies keep an aspirin between your knees didn't work then, and it won't work now. So, again I say ...?

*cricket, cricket*

Yeah.

 

[Black Jade]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I apologize for the inaccuracy about the morning after pill.

No one is conflating contraception and abortion.

I believe I said clearly that I was fine with contraception but against abortion and that I am NOT fine with forcing Catholics to pay for contraception (any more that I would be fine with demanding that kosher restaurants serve pork and shellfish). I also do not see why anyone is accused of being agaisnt contraception simply because they don't want to pay for someone else's, no matter what you re-label it. (Contraception is not 'health care', I'm sorry).

My mention of abortion was in the context of the part of the discussion that was about the pretense nowadays that contraception is much more effective than it actually is. You would think, hearing many people talk, that only fools and lower income people get accidentally pregnant (or people who were given abstinence-only education). I was pointing out that contraception does fail, in spite of what we are erroneously teaching and that the only way we are able to continue the pretense that it doesn't is that abortion is used for a back-up. This is why all the people who believe that babies ruin women's lives (and that the only way that women can achieve equality is to have only one baby, after age thirty-five, with a career firmly in place and then only if they have been careful enough about their carbon footprint to 'deserve' it) tend to be pro-abortion. Because contraception alone does not allow the world to be the way that they want it to be.

It's really all about pretending that behaviors don't have consequences, on a gigantic national scale.

And it's not really about women's rights at all.

The young woman in the video I linked to could I think, say with Sojourner Truth, "ain't I a woman?" But she and the others like her are carefully scrubbed from the public consciousness, because to admit that more than half of the aborted fetuses would have grown up to be young women ruins the picture the so-called 'feminists' are working so hard to make the public believe (and it's getting harder and harder for them, poor things, since we have so much more science and technology now than in the 1970's that you really can't talk about 'clumps of cells' as convincingly as you could back then at all).

 

[ericad]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

This is why all the people who believe that babies ruin women's lives (and that the only way that women can achieve equality is to have only one baby, after age thirty-five, with a career firmly in place and then only if they have been careful enough about their carbon footprint to 'deserve' it) tend to be pro-abortion.

You're so right, BJ, all us pro-choicer's absolutely DESPISE babies! We hate them! And fetuses are the worst - put the babies on spikes, I say (Eddie Izzard reference, lest you think I ACTUALLY want to impale babies on spikes)! My DD certainly ruined my life, lemme tell ya...

PS - I particularly like your creative re-labeling of pro choice into pro abortion. Nicely done. Not at all an example of pervasive propagandizing...

 

[tammy77]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I haven't read everything, but my reproductive choices are MY business. Even though my DH and I are actively TTC, there was a point in time where we were not emotionally and financially ready to bring a child into this world. That said...

I'm in a monogamous relationship and happily married. My husband and I happen to feel that sex is a part of a healthy, loving relationship even if *gasp* you don't want a baby. If we don't want/can't afford/etc. to have a baby, then we're going to prevent. Don't tell me that I shouldn't have sex with my HUSBAND if I can't afford a child or for whatever reason feel it isn't right for our family. If an oops were to happen, of course we would have kept and loved it because it was mean to be. There's a HUGE difference between being responsible and doing what you can to prevent a hardship in your family, and the blind faith version of "if I'm not supposed to have a child it won't happen, so I'm not going to worry about contraception". Furthermore, birth control pills (when taken correctly) are pretty much the most effective reversible form of birth control. It's not abortion - it's preventing ovulation and therefore rendering conception impossible. This isn't rocket science, not sure why abortion was even brought into the conversation.

I pay health insurance premiums that are much higher than the $25.00 or so that my pills would cost and rarely go to the doctor. In fact, the only prescription I've consistently had in the past is bcp - so the "go pay for it yourself" argument doesn't work. I'm just pissed off and flabbergasted by the audacity of some people that think that they have the right to even suggest the stupid notion of mixing reproductive choices with my financial security.

Gah, I'm just full of angst today!

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

what most anti-choice people do not seem to understand is that no one is pro-abortion. but like prostitution it will always be with us whether some like it or not. its whether it is swept into back alleys or only available to the rich who can afford to stay out of the back alley.

 

[beebrisk]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I haven't read everything, but my reproductive choices are MY business. Even though my DH and I are actively TTC, there was a point in time where we were not emotionally and financially ready to bring a child into this world. That said...

I'm in a monogamous relationship and happily married. My husband and I happen to feel that sex is a part of a healthy, loving relationship even if *gasp* you don't want a baby. If we don't want/can't afford/etc. to have a baby, then we're going to prevent. Don't tell me that I shouldn't have sex with my HUSBAND if I can't afford a child or for whatever reason feel it isn't right for our family. If an oops were to happen, of course we would have kept and loved it because it was mean to be. There's a HUGE difference between being responsible and doing what you can to prevent a hardship in your family, and the blind faith version of "if I'm not supposed to have a child it won't happen, so I'm not going to worry about contraception". Furthermore, birth control pills (when taken correctly) are pretty much the most effective reversible form of birth control. It's not abortion - it's preventing ovulation and therefore rendering conception impossible. This isn't rocket science, not sure why abortion was even brought into the conversation.

I pay health insurance premiums that are much higher than the $25.00 or so that my pills would cost and rarely go to the doctor. In fact, the only prescription I've consistently had in the past is bcp - so the "go pay for it yourself" argument doesn't work. I'm just pissed off and flabbergasted by the audacity of some people that think that they have the right to even suggest the stupid notion of mixing reproductive choices with my financial security.

Gah, I'm just full of angst today!

Yes...your reproductive choices ARE your business which is why you should pay for your birth control. After all, it's not MY business and it shouldn't be the government's business, either. If you're insured, great. Your carrier will cover most of it now and by law, all of it soon. I believe Target will fill your Rx for charge $9/month, with insurance.

If you can't afford it, it can still be had for free at any federally funded BC clinic. Has been since 1970, in fact.

No one is asking that you go broke trying to remain childless. No one.

 

[Maria D]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I apologize for the inaccuracy about the morning after pill.

No one is conflating contraception and abortion.

I believe I said clearly that I was fine with contraception but against abortion and that I am NOT fine with forcing Catholics to pay for contraception (any more that I would be fine with demanding that kosher restaurants serve pork and shellfish). I also do not see why anyone is accused of being agaisnt contraception simply because they don't want to pay for someone else's, no matter what you re-label it. (Contraception is not 'health care', I'm sorry).

My mention of abortion was in the context of the part of the discussion that was about the pretense nowadays that contraception is much more effective than it actually is. You would think, hearing many people talk, that only fools and lower income people get accidentally pregnant (or people who were given abstinence-only education). I was pointing out that contraception does fail, in spite of what we are erroneously teaching and that the only way we are able to continue the pretense that it doesn't is that abortion is used for a back-up. This is why all the people who believe that babies ruin women's lives (and that the only way that women can achieve equality is to have only one baby, after age thirty-five, with a career firmly in place and then only if they have been careful enough about their carbon footprint to 'deserve' it) tend to be pro-abortion. Because contraception alone does not allow the world to be the way that they want it to be.

It's really all about pretending that behaviors don't have consequences, on a gigantic national scale.

And it's not really about women's rights at all.

The young woman in the video I linked to could I think, say with Sojourner Truth, "ain't I a woman?" But she and the others like her are carefully scrubbed from the public consciousness, because to admit that more than half of the aborted fetuses would have grown up to be young women ruins the picture the so-called 'feminists' are working so hard to make the public believe (and it's getting harder and harder for them, poor things, since we have so much more science and technology now than in the 1970's that you really can't talk about 'clumps of cells' as convincingly as you could back then at all).

I'm perplexed. Yes, contraception does fail. A hormonal birth-control user taking the pill correctly has a far better chance of becoming pregnant than a person who regularly plays the lottery has of winning -- doesn't everyone know that? Who is erroneously teaching that it doesn't? I preach this fact all the time and it's precisely why abortion should be legal. If I, a woman, become pregnant and choose not to carry the pregnancy to term it is my business and no one else's. I don't need to talk about clumps of cells. Technology doesn't change the fact that a first trimester fetus is not a viable organism. It's up to the woman to decide, period.

The people who believe that abortion is murder that "their tax dollars" shouldn't be paying for can console themselves in the fact that these millions of unwanted fetuses are joining the multitudes of actual already born men, women and children that my tax dollars have paid to murder in wars I don't support. And, if you don't like supporting the lifestyles of people you feel should be "paying for their own birth-control/sex," be comforted that my tax dollars pay for the prescription medications of Americans who, against all advice from their doctors, lead a lifestyle that directly leads to diseases like type II diabetes, high blood pressure and heart disease. That's the way it goes.

 

[Maria D]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

Yes...your reproductive choices ARE your business which is why you should pay for your birth control. After all, it's not MY business and it shouldn't be the government's business, either. If you're insured, great. Your carrier will cover most of it now and by law, all of it soon. I believe Target will fill your Rx for charge $9/month, with insurance.

If you can't afford it, it can still be had for free at any federally funded BC clinic. Has been since 1970, in fact.

No one is asking that you go broke trying to remain childless. No one.

Unless your insurer is allowed to only cover you for birth control pills when they are NOT used for birth control. Wasn't that the point of the original post that started this thread? LOL

 

[Maria D]

Re: Use birth control pills to prevent pregnancy? You're fir

I haven't read everything, but my reproductive choices are MY business. Even though my DH and I are actively TTC, there was a point in time where we were not emotionally and financially ready to bring a child into this world. That said...

I'm in a monogamous relationship and happily married. My husband and I happen to feel that sex is a part of a healthy, loving relationship even if *gasp* you don't want a baby. If we don't want/can't afford/etc. to have a baby, then we're going to prevent. Don't tell me that I shouldn't have sex with my HUSBAND if I can't afford a child or for whatever reason feel it isn't right for our family. If an oops were to happen, of course we would have kept and loved it because it was mean to be. There's a HUGE difference between being responsible and doing what you can to prevent a hardship in your family, and the blind faith version of "if I'm not supposed to have a child it won't happen, so I'm not going to worry about contraception". Furthermore, birth control pills (when taken correctly) are pretty much the most effective reversible form of birth control. It's not abortion - it's preventing ovulation and therefore rendering conception impossible. This isn't rocket science, not sure why abortion was even brought into the conversation.

I pay health insurance premiums that are much higher than the $25.00 or so that my pills would cost and rarely go to the doctor. In fact, the only prescription I've consistently had in the past is bcp - so the "go pay for it yourself" argument doesn't work. I'm just pissed off and flabbergasted by the audacity of some people that think that they have the right to even suggest the stupid notion of mixing reproductive choices with my financial security.

Gah, I'm just full of angst today!

yeah, me too! Enough so that I'm done with writing about it on this thread and off to writing to all my legislators! Right now, none of the BS going on in this country affects me directly but how long before this insanity spreads to the saner regions of the country? What if my daughter wants to someday live in *gasp* Texas? Like-minded people, I hope you'll join me in letting your representatives know what you think about all of this.