Trayvon Martin. Why are we not talking about this?

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Several months ago a news channel discussed the Chicago Crime stats. What was discussed was the fact that during the recession all Chicago crime abated, including murder. We had a dramatic drop. If the last three months show a 60% increase, its from a lower start point. Since 1999 Chicago violent crime has fallen and reached new lows last year. Yes it is above the national average.

This website CityRating.com shows the reduction in crime in Chicgo. It can be found under Chicago Crime Report.
Chicago is proud that it has reduced its crime rate.

You see Bee, you gave a skewed picture by only throwing the stats from the last three months, which I couldn't find anywhere.
Chicago crime has reduced dramatically. People in Chicago do care about their communities, much more so than New York.

Annette

I apologize to other PSers. I will not digress again.

 

[beebrisk]

Hi,

Several months ago a news channel discussed the Chicago Crime stats. What was discussed was the fact that during the recession all Chicago crime abated, including murder. We had a dramatic drop. If the last three months show a 60% increase, its from a lower start point. Since 1999 Chicago violent crime has fallen and reached new lows last year. Yes it is above the national average.

This website CityRating.com shows the reduction in crime in Chicgo. It can be found under Chicago Crime Report.
Chicago is proud that it has reduced its crime rate.

You see Bee, you gave a skewed picture by only throwing the stats from the last three months, which I couldn't find anywhere.
Chicago crime has reduced dramatically. People in Chicago do care about their communities, much more so than New York.

Annette

I apologize to other PSers. I will not digress again.

I used Chicago as an example of how the NATIONAL media ignores so much of what happens there yet has focused so heavily on the Martin case. I made a statement as to why I believe that to be so, not because I wanted to digress and have a discussion about crime stats..

I also used Chicago as reference with regards to the president's comment on this ONE crime in Sanford, FL when, in his own backyard, it happens almost on a daily basis.

So you see, the mentioning of Chicago was, in my opinion, quite relevant to the subject at hand. Not a distraction or a digression.

But for what it's worth, here's one link to the information you couldn't find: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12/chicago-murder-rate-up_n_1420382.html

 

[beebrisk]

...and as a NY'er I take umberage to your statement that we don't care as much about our city as Chicagoans do. But then again, I also take umberage at what they consider to be good pizza!

 

[missy]

People in Chicago do care about their communities, much more so than New York.

Ummm, no, I don't think so. Not sure what this has to do with the topic in any case but since you felt the need to post subjective info as fact I feel the need to disagree.

 

[Imdanny]

Latest word our of Florida that I have seen is that there is a fair amount of debate on if the judge will dismiss during the preliminary hearing for lack of evidence.

Well, well, well. The preliminary hearing was today and the judge accepted the State's filing that there is probable cause. Dismiss for lack of evidence? Where do people get this BS?

 

[Ella]

Please keep the petty comments to yourselves everyone and discuss the topic calmly and without insulting others.

 

[AGBF]

Please keep the petty comments to yourselves everyone and discuss the topic calmly and without insulting others.

Thanks, Ella. Thanks for letting us have this discussion. It's hard to keep one's emotions under wraps, but I, at least, find that having the privilege of indulging in these discussions on Pricescope makes minding my manners worth the effort.

Deb/AGBF

 

[Imdanny]

I'm sorry, Ella, Perry, everyone. I definitely appreciate being able to talk about this here, and I'll keep my emotions in check. This thread touches on so many sensitive topics, and frankly, a lot of the subject matter is chilling and disturbing, all the more reason for us to treat each other with respect and kindness. Thanks for the reminder. And, Deb, your manners are exemplary. Your posts are always a pleasure. I, on the other hand, have had to learn self-control in these types of threads, over many years. I'm trying and I've come a long way, but I'm not there yet.

Danny

 

[AGBF]

17 pages and one arrest for 2nd degree murder later and it appears very few are yet satisfied.

beebrisk-

Please forgive me for revisiting this post of yours. I already replied to it once earlier in this thread and I am not trying to beat a dead horse! (Nor am I trying to imply that I already somehow "bested" you in an argument.) It is just that I noticed how quiet the discussion of the Trayvon Martin shooting went on Pricescope and how low the thread fell on the list of topics in Hangout...for the first time in ages. It made me start thinking. I realized that Pricescopers, like many other Americans, were finally satisfied that justice had prevailed in Florida once Mr. Zimmerman was arrested and the federal government was also involved in pursuing Mr. Martin's civil rights. Whether or not Mr. Zimmerman was convicted of a crime. There was an OpEd piece (I believe yesterday) in, "The New York Times" about this. I read it, but did not think about posting it. If I can find it (which I assume I can), I will post it to this thread.

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

This OP Ed piece in the April 14, "The New York Times" by Charles M. Blow is really a piece in praise of the United States and the way all of its pieces worked together to ensure justice for Trayvon Martin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/14/opinion/blow-justice-for-trayvon.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=justice%20for%20trayvon&st=cse

Deb/AGBF

 

[lulu]

Thanks Deb, that was a really great article. Unfortunately it was also my tenth this month. Not enjoying the new NY Times policy and I may have to subscribe.

 

[Imdanny]

We know the media has the attention span of a fruit fly. Actually that comparison is probably unfair to fruit flys.

So for those of you who want to continue to follow the Trayvon Martin story, I have a site recommendation. Thegrio.com focuses on the African American community, but in fact it's a product of NBC.

I've found this site to be very focused and the staff written articles to be very detailed and helpful. I'm going to continue to visit this site, and I believe they are going to not let up on this story.

Here's the link:

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/

 

[beebrisk]

Yes. All is quiet now in the wake of Zimmerman's arrest. Should he be acquitted however, my ominous prediction is that we'll see rage taken to the streets at a level unlike anything we've seen before. Mark my words.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes. All is quiet now in the wake of Zimmerman's arrest. Should he be acquitted however, my ominous prediction is that we'll see rage taken to the streets at a level unlike anything we've seen before. Mark my words.

yup, if he's acquitted big riots all over the country...

 

[Imdanny]

I'm watching Zimmerman's bond hearing live:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/

The defense lawyer is a jerk IMO. He's basically trying the whole case and trying to sow doubt, and in a nasty, arrogant way.

Unfortunately, he's throwing the detective, who, yes, DID rely on evidence to use the word "confronted".

I hope the prosecutors can handle themselves better than this investigator. He's just letting this lawyer walk all over him.

Ok, now the other side's turn...

 

[Imdanny]

Zimmerman is on the stand! Wow. PR stunt. He was supposed to address a statement to the court, instead he addressed the parents. Now the State's lawyer is ripping him apart.

Edit- the lawyer is asking for a $15,000 bond (I'm not joking), and wants Zimmerman to leave the state, with GPS.

Edit2- bond granted $150,000 (if I heard it right) and Zimmerman can leave the state (wow).

The judge is biased in favor of the defense. This was apparent to me throughout. Subtle but definite.

I want to say something. Please don't flame me but in my opinion the presumption of white privilege in this country is disgusting. Can you possibly imagine a black man killing a white child and then being released on bond and allowed to leave the state?

The presumption in 2nd degree murder charge, a 1st degree felony, in Florida is against bond. So basically the judge took the side of the defense. Outrageous. So now the man who got a 45 day get out of jail free card gets yet more freedom, while his victim, wailing the word help and being shot dead remains dead. Disgusting.

Edit3- it seems Zimmerman has to put down $15,000 to get bond. $15,000 to get out of jail on a 2nd degree murder charge. So the judge went with the defense hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Imdanny]

If it's a new day, it must be time for a new Zimmerman lie.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html

He did not know Trayvon Martin was "seriously injured" after he shot him with a 9 mm hollow shell "cop killer" bullet. This explains why he had to "lunge" on top of the dead boy (he was seen on top of him by witnesses). Because he didn't know Martin was not a threat after he shot Martin dead.

I can't believe they're letting this clown walk again after all of this. The judge didn't think a person accused of murder, with an arrest record for assaulting a police officer and an allegation of domestic violence in his past represents a danger to society. Pathetic.

 

[Imdanny]

From keepemhonest's blog post at Daily Kos, today about Zimmerman using the lie of self defense in the past.

"Zimmerman is in Court today on Bond Hearing. Thinkprogress Reported:

"While interviewing Zimmerman’s current wife, the state proscecutor read from an affidavit by the ex-girlfriend. She alleged in the sworn statement that he “pushed her,” then slapped her with an open hand to the mouth and “asked her how it felt.” She said he “picked me up and threw me on the bed” and then “grabbed me again.” Zimmerman’s wife responded that her husband was simply trying to “protect himself from being attacked by her.”

Re-read that last sentence: Zimmerman’s wife responded that her husband was simply trying to “protect himself from being attacked by her.” Does that sound a wee bit familiar?

Talkingpointsmemo Reports:
George Zimmerman took the witness stand at his own bond hearing this morning in a Florida courtroom and said he was sorry to the parents of Trayvon Martin.

“I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son,” Zimmerman said. “I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know that he was armed or not.”
- Zimmerman on why he had to kill Trayvon Martin in order to determine if Trayvon was armed

Was that a blatant LIE in that BS apology? Zimmerman said, "I thought he was a little bit younger than I am."

Yet on the 911 call Zimmerman knew Trayvon was no where near Z's age

911 dispatcher: "How old would you say he is?"

Zimmerman: "He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens."

911 dispatcher: "Late teens?"

Zimmerman: "Uh, huh."

Zimmerman is 28 years old and he will be 29 years old in October.

Hmmm .... "I thought he was a little be younger than I am."

"A little younger" .... hmm ... like 2years younger or maybe 3or 4 years younger?

Pretty hard for me to believe that Zimmerman - who accurately told 911 Dispatch that Trayvon was in his "late teens" minutes before he killed him - would suddenly 'claim to think' a boy in their "late teens" would be "little bit younger" than a he, a 28 year old man?

Reason I point out and underscore the age - is because in my opinion it proves that Zimmerman is now concocting a "state of mind" for that night."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/20/1084972/-Zimmerman-s-Wife-Admits-Z-Used-Self-Defense-Excuse-Years-Ago

Lying to the victim's parents' faces. He must know his own 911 tape contradicted this. Yet he just shamelessly lied in open court. And the judge let him get away with this.

I think Zimmerman is a sociopath. And the judge? What's his excuse for being so ignorant about the basic facts? What's his excuse for dismissing the arrest for assaulting a police officer (and he was so casual in his comments when he did this)? What's his excuse for letting this man insult the parents of the victim with this (yet another) blatant, self-serving lie?

This is not being handled well. The presumption of the law, against bond in the case of a 2nd degree murder charge (I heard the defense lawyer say this in open court, no one contradicted him), and the judge, then, went out of his way to agree with the defense, after that insulting, farcical performance of Zimmerman's. Is the judge blind to this, or does he not care?

Wow.

 

[Laila619]

He's full of BS for sure.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I was under the impression that Florida has a regulation(law) that makes people post the whole bond. In fact, I thought that was why the bond hearing was postponed last week. I thought no one could make the bond.

Now before someone, except one our learned attorneys, say something about this, I have posted bond for someone in Florida , and i had to post the full bail ($5,000). In Il. you only have to post 10% of the bail. Not so in Florida, so how does 150,000 become 15,000, particularly on a murder charge.

Time will modify heated emotions by the time the trial is over, I hope. If he gets aquitted by the SYG law, we may have riots. But I hope reason prevails.

Annette

 

[Imdanny]

Annette, his lawyer said in his press conference after the proceeding something about Zimmerman's parents remortgaging their house? So I could be wrong about that part. But how do you remortgage a house in a matter of days? What bothers me is that this judge let him walk and was plain casual about it. I mean the whole point of this fiasco is that he wasn't arrested 50 days ago, so he just lets him walk, again, and after he committed perjury. The judge's sympathetic interactions with the defense and constrained reactions to the prosecutor make me think this judge might indeed throw this case out based on Zimmerman's self-serving lie that he was defending himself.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

You can remortgage pretty fast now-a -days. Now that you have clarified the point, I do think that is why the bond hearing was postponed. No one could come up with the bond at that time. I think bail requires the whole 150,000.

The legal system is a strange bird. Don't get yourself overly excited. I was somewhat prepared for this as it was hinted and more in the media this week. Its not unheard of. Perhaps the judge is keeping his eye on the defense of SYG. If they use it, and the judge agrees with it, then to keep him in jail would not serve the purpose of this law. The other point that I remember with the SYG law, it was supposed to prevent people like GZ from having to spend all their money on a defense attorney. I think lack of clarity here is what caused the judge to offer bail.

Annette

 

[Imdanny]

No, of course you're right. I shouldn't get excited nor make assumptions. But I'll tell you this. After watching this live, I do think this judge is biased in favor of the defense. And I will research him just the way I did with State Attorney Norm Wolfinger. I do think it will be an outrage if he throws the whole case out after what I have heard that tape. "Help, Help me", wailing, desperate wailing in the face of terror, and not one yell, I haven't timed it, but for something like 20 seconds. Bang. Dead. And we have nothing but the word of the murderer that the the victim was supposedly the aggressor.

This is just such an absurd, offensive spectacle. He parents call into the proceedings by phone? He perjures himself in court. He "plants" evidence in an unwarranted, and unwelcome statement to the victim's parents. And he get to walk, yet again, when no black person in Florida accused of killing a white child would ever, ever get to do the same thing.

I'm a native of Florida and I'm sorry but this case has been and continues to be an outrageous, disgusting joke, in front of the nation, and the world.

 

[beebrisk]

Perhaps the judge is "biased" because he knows things about this case that we, as casual observers, do not?

Has anyone seen the latest photos of a very bloody GZ released by ABC News?

Has anyone read what Harvard Law Professor, Alan Dershowitz has to say about the case the prosecution is trying to build??

 

[sstephensid]

Zimmerman is on the stand! Wow. PR stunt. He was supposed to address a statement to the court, instead he addressed the parents. Now the State's lawyer is ripping him apart.

Edit- the lawyer is asking for a $15,000 bond (I'm not joking), and wants Zimmerman to leave the state, with GPS.

Edit2- bond granted $150,000 (if I heard it right) and Zimmerman can leave the state (wow).

The judge is biased in favor of the defense. This was apparent to me throughout. Subtle but definite.

I want to say something. Please don't flame me but in my opinion the presumption of white privilege in this country is disgusting. Can you possibly imagine a black man killing a white child and then being released on bond and allowed to leave the state?

The presumption in 2nd degree murder charge, a 1st degree felony, in Florida is against bond. So basically the judge took the side of the defense. Outrageous. So now the man who got a 45 day get out of jail free card gets yet more freedom, while his victim, wailing the word help and being shot dead remains dead. Disgusting.

Edit3- it seems Zimmerman has to put down $15,000 to get bond. $15,000 to get out of jail on a 2nd degree murder charge. So the judge went with the defense hook, line, and sinker.

Ugh

Don't you mean can you imagine a black man killing a biracial Hispanic, not white, 17 year old? But of course, Zimmerman's actual race doesn't matter, all we need to know is that the privileged white is at fault.

 

[GlamMosher]

Danny, thanks for keeping us up to date on this. We haven't had any news here on it since he was charged.

Beebrisk, I hadn't seen the photo of the bloody head, but it wasn't taken by a official was it? Where is it from? Is there one from the front to show whose head it is? And really, 3 minutes after shooting a child, you ask someone to take a photo of the blood on the back of your head? Who does that?

Even if he did have blood on his head, I wouldn't blame TM for trying to disable this weirdo following him.

 

[MissStepcut]

Race issues aside, I was seriously surprised that a guy who had a history of assaulting a cop didn't get put through the wringer more. I'm not under the impression that folks with histories like that generally have pleasant encounters with police later. It's one of the factors that's made me give police the benefit of the doubt (aside from the legal issues that I originally brought up and other posters also shared details on).

 

[Imdanny]

Danny, thanks for keeping us up to date on this. We haven't had any news here on it since he was charged.

GlamMosher, you're welcome.

 

[Imdanny]

Beebrisk, I hadn't seen the photo of the bloody head, but it wasn't taken by a official was it? Where is it from? Is there one from the front to show whose head it is? And really, 3 minutes after shooting a child, you ask someone to take a photo of the blood on the back of your head? Who does that?

Even if he did have blood on his head, I wouldn't blame TM for trying to disable this weirdo following him.

I'm not Beebrisk, but according to the same diary I posted:

"Allegedly and supposedly, 3-minutes after Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, an anonymous person, who knew George & George's wife, took a picture of the back of Zimmerman's head which shows a little bit of blood tricking down his head but no picture of Zimmerman's nose

What I find most "telling" is: Zimmerman just finished killing an unarmed teenager and took the time to have his picture taken with a little bit of blood trickling down his head ... hmmmm ... yet failed to have a picture taken of any alleged broken nose."

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Danny,

Cnn showed blips of the hearing last nite. You were right, the defense did try to make their case. Remember they know they are on TV. But, they did a good job, there was no real rebuttal. And GZ will have his statement about not knowing TM was a teen come back to bite him. But I think his reason for not apologizing to the Martins was plausable. His attorneys told him not to. No contact with victims parents. Don't all lawyers say that.

Bee-- You may not believe this but just the past week the news said murders in Chicago have increased substantially lately. So your figures may have captured more recent news. It is sad. Mostly gangs.

Missy-- I certainly don't want to offend you by my statement about Chicago vs New York. Since I lived in NY for 35 yrs, I think I can see differences in attitudes in New York vs Chic. New Yorkers have many great qualities and I have missed New York for many things.
Bt Chicago is different than NY as there are regional differences as well in America. I wish I coud tell you some of the differences but some things would be construed as insults on either side. Many would also be praises for each side, no matter how different.
Some stereotypes are true, but I think that is as much as I want to say. I love NY too. I used to live in Chicago, now live in suburbs.


Still don't understand the bail. In court his neighbor said GZ came up with 15,000, but could not explain where the money came from. I don't know if this was a partial bail payment or the bail. it bothers me because I had to pay the full bond for something ridiculous.

Annette