Travelers! Help!

[danners84]

I am admittedly the queen of indecision. I have to research things to death before I can make a move. I need some opinions/experienced views please!

The hubs and I are planning a vacation for next year, most likely mid February through mid March, but I could potentially move my vacation days to April. I was originally shooting for Australia and New Zealand, but lately we have also discusses a Thailand/Bali combo. Oz/NZ were always on the very top of my dream vacay list. But Thailand/Bali will be a cultural experience. We are wanting to do a trip that we know we will not be able to do once we have a family. We are open to other suggestions as well, but are looking for something far away - we plan on saving the shorter/closer trips (Europe, etc) for when we have kids.

The basics:
3 weeks
A combination of hiking/sightseeing(nature esp)/adventure/relaxation
Climate - we are used to HOT (100F+) HUMID summers, so while we LOVE the 70s, the 80s and 90s on beach days are no big deal to us.

My questions:
Which destination would you choose? Why? (Other suggestions welcome)
Between Mid Feb to the end of April, when would you suggest?
Is anyone familiar with Air Pacific? They've got the best prices I've been able to find.

TIA

 

[aviastar]

African Safari with a Mt. Kili climb.

I haven't been yet, but am planning this trip with my husband for sometime in the next 18months- well, without the Kili climb. But I am finding that you can do just about any level of luxury from camping straight up to private planes and butlers; there is climbing and hiking, lots of animals and nature stuff to see, archeological sites, white sand beaches on Zanzibar and some of the other coasts, adventure stuff like hangliding, hot air ballooning, zip lining.

Kids were the deciding factor for us in this trip- we would be happy to take future kids to New Zealand, which was also high on the list, but not really excited about taking kids to Africa, so Africa comes first!

 

[VRBeauty]

I'm admittedly not a widely experienced traveler, but I have widely traveled friends - does that count? In any event, I'd agree with Aviastar that the trips you've described could easily be family-friendly. If your goal is to do something now that you could not do with kids in tow, Africa is one possibility. My more well-traveled friends would probably add India/Nepal/Tibet or Turkey. In those cases you'd probably want to go with a tour company that coordinates small group tours.

ETA Machu Pichu...

 

[justginger]

Gah - not Bali! Anywhere but Bali! Out of everywhere I've been, it has been my very, very least favorite. It is full of 'ugly Australians' (as opposed to the infamous 'ugly Americans'). I was truly miserable there. Hot, smelled like crap, humid, crowds of drunk, obnoxious Aussies, and being CONSTANTLY harangued by the locals trying to get you to buy something, anything. "Hey baby, hey Aussie, you want Billabong? Tank top, 200. New purse, you need new purse? Hey darling, hey sweetheart, come see what I have for you..." And they'd actually grab me by the sleeve and try to pull me in their shops. This happened every 20 feet or so. Talk about a relaxing holiday... And I wasn't even in the very center of the tourism, I was further north, in the fringes! I got absolutely NO culture from Bali. Unless you head for the far north, away from all other tourists, the only culture you're going to get is a lesson in drunk Australian yobbos. I can't offer too much up on Thailand - I was there for 9 days once, hated Bangkok because it was my first taste of a chaotic, third world sort of city setting. Sensory overload. Then I headed to Koh Chang, a quiet island, where it proceeded to rain the whole week. I've heard of lots of other people, coworkers and the such, say they enjoyed it. But again, not for the culture, but for the knockoff purses, trained monkeys, and cheap spa treatments!

Honestly, I am partial to Oz/NZ, obviously. But having grown up overseas, and knowing full well how far away it is, and how relatively expensive of a trip it is, I would do it now while you can. If you wait until you have children, there's a good chance it will never happen - or it won't happen until the children are much older. Australia is still pretty hot around that time of year, but honestly, I've found Perth to always be a lovely Mediterranean kind of heat in comparison to what I grew up with in the Midwest US. Hot, but nice breezes by the sea and no humidity to speak of. The best time would definitely be April - my favorite time of year in Oz. NZ would be even cooler, Feb and March are both beautiful then, getting a bit chilly towards April.

Other places to go? I'm in Turkey right now, and it's been quite an adventure. There are tons of British tourists all over the more popular, beachy destinations - which is both good and bad. I miss having any sort of authentic experience with so many western tourists, but it definitely erases language barriers. The rest of Turkey that we've seen so far (Selcuk, Ephesus, Pamukkale, and currently in Oludeniz) have been beautiful and I've had some of the most REAL culture experiences of my life. The people here are WONDERFUL. Honestly, they are so kind and helpful. Previous traveling through places like Indonesia and Thailand have hardened me to receiving assistance from locals - they always end every interaction with their hands out, expecting compensation (even for doing something as basic as lifting a suitcase out of the back of their taxi!). So at first I was pretty cool with the Turks wanting to offer directions, assistance...but honestly, people here just give and give and give. With smiles. They don't expect a cent in return, and are content to know that you are safe, healthy, and happy. It's really incredible. I'd now recommend Turkey to anyone.

I'm so excited to see what you decide to do - I LOVE traveling!

ETA - to summarize, I think NZ would probably be best for what you're wanting. The South Island has some of the most awe-inspiring scenery on Earth. There is no shortage of nature-based or adventure activities, and I know of NO ONE who has been and not absolutely loved it to pieces. I've only been on the North Island, but the South Island is being saved for a trip when we have kids (because it's relatively close for us, and cheaper than an Australian holiday).

 

[aviastar]

I really enjoyed Turkey, as well. Ephesus was one of my favorites!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Friends rave about The Cook Islands. That might be our next holiday--some exictement, some rest and relaxation--much beauty.
Another friend just returned from Israel and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Personally I enjoyed SE Asia. Did an overland trek (Bangkok to Bali) and thought it was very well done.
Australia and NZ are also on my list....did Paris and Italy this year instead.

cheers--Sharon

 

[danners84]

African Safari with a Mt. Kili climb.

I haven't been yet, but am planning this trip with my husband for sometime in the next 18months- well, without the Kili climb. But I am finding that you can do just about any level of luxury from camping straight up to private planes and butlers; there is climbing and hiking, lots of animals and nature stuff to see, archeological sites, white sand beaches on Zanzibar and some of the other coasts, adventure stuff like hangliding, hot air ballooning, zip lining.

Kids were the deciding factor for us in this trip- we would be happy to take future kids to New Zealand, which was also high on the list, but not really excited about taking kids to Africa, so Africa comes first!

Although I've thought about an African safari before, I think I'm ultimately too much of a wuss to go to most of Africa. And I hate to admit that there is anywhere that I would not go. Still, maybe I should consider it. I'll add it to my list of places to research.

VRB- As far as I'm concerned, a traveler = anyone who is interested in doing and is planning or has gone on a trip and enjoys doing so. We all have to start somewhere, and life doesn't let everyone travel the entire world. India, Tibet, and Nepal sound interesting, and are something we discussed. I have several coworkers who go back home to India for about a month every year, so I'd have some great resources! We also threw around the idea of Sri Lanka if we went that route. But I had also discussed going with a girlfriend on this trip. I'm curious why you think we wouldn't/couldn't do Turkey with kids?

jginger- Thanks for your honest opinions on Thailand/Bali. I've seen some people who have really loved them (including on person my husband knows who keeps going back to Thailand). But sometimes I wonder if people rave about places they've been because they don't want to admit they were disappointed - everyone seems to want to say they had the best vacation ever. I just want to ACTUALLY have the best vacation ever. Is that too much to ask?

Honestly, I am partial to Oz/NZ, obviously. But having grown up overseas, and knowing full well how far away it is, and how relatively expensive of a trip it is, I would do it now while you can. If you wait until you have children, there's a good chance it will never happen - or it won't happen until the children are much older.

This is mainly what I was thinking - that whether we decided to take a trip with or without the kids, Oz/NZ would not be possible. It's a full day away, and $$$. I can't imagine us spending upwards of $15k on a family vacation, and I can't imagine going that far for that long without the kids (My husband wants me to be clear that he thinks we will have no problem leaving the kids to go anywhere in the world for any length of time I am determined to take the occasional trip without them, but I know it's easier said than done).

Thanks for all the ideas so far. Must get to researching! Half of the time I can't get past pictures before I get lost daydreaming. I'm ready for vacation NOW!

 

[Haven]

I really enjoyed Turkey, as well. Ephesus was one of my favorites!

I love Ephesus!

Where have you already been? Which places have been your favorite and least favorite, and why?

I wanted to pop in and say that I think you can have an amazing trip whatever you choose. DH and I kind of just decided to go to Switzerland last summer because I was going to be in Belgium for a conference, and it ended up being an amazing trip. So, don't stress yourself out too much with this decision.

If I were in your situation and I couldn't decide between two trips, this is what I'd do: I'd go to the library and take out travel books and videos for both destinations and spend a day looking through them. Then I'd pick whichever of the two destinations appealed to me most. I'm hesitant to give you a specific destination because everyone is different. Our favorite trip of all time was to Ireland, yet many of DH's friends told him he was going to hate it before we left.

 

[danners84]

For those of you who have been to Turkey, any reason we couldn't go with the family?

HI:

Friends rave about The Cook Islands. That might be our next holiday--some exictement, some rest and relaxation--much beauty.
Another friend just returned from Israel and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Personally I enjoyed SE Asia. Did an overland trek (Bangkok to Bali) and thought it was very well done.
Australia and NZ are also on my list....did Paris and Italy this year instead.

cheers--Sharon

The Cook Islands was on my longer list, but I doubt they'll make it to the short list, only because it seems there would be less to do?

Glad to see a positive review re: SE Asia. I wonder what made your experience so different from justginger's.

 

[danners84]

I really enjoyed Turkey, as well. Ephesus was one of my favorites!

I love Ephesus!

Where have you already been? Which places have been your favorite and least favorite, and why?

I wanted to pop in and say that I think you can have an amazing trip whatever you choose. DH and I kind of just decided to go to Switzerland last summer because I was going to be in Belgium for a conference, and it ended up being an amazing trip. So, don't stress yourself out too much with this decision.

If I were in your situation and I couldn't decide between two trips, this is what I'd do: I'd go to the library and take out travel books and videos for both destinations and spend a day looking through them. Then I'd pick whichever of the two destinations appealed to me most. I'm hesitant to give you a specific destination because everyone is different. Our favorite trip of all time was to Ireland, yet many of DH's friends told him he was going to hate it before we left.

A friend is in Switzerland right now and has been posting photos on Facebook and it is killing me! Looks AMAZING.

Our traveling experience is minimal at this point - I went all over the US growing up, and have only been to Czech Republic, Ukraine, and Costa Rica, which is where hubby and I got married/honeymooned. And DH has been to, well, Costa Rica. Costa Rica had the adventure/relaxation combo that we like. Ukraine was probably my favorite, but that's mostly because I got to go with my mother, see where she grew up, meet my cousins, and learn about my heritage/culture. It's a beautiful place, but I know my experience was colored due to it being mom's "home". I LOVE your advice to pick the top two and just go with what feels right after learning about them for a day or two. That's exactly what I'm going to do.

 

[Haven]

Danners--Now I definitely think you'll be able to make a great vacation out of either of your top two destinations. Either of these places is going to be so new and exciting that I don't think you can go wrong.

Honestly, another thing I would consider would be flight cost. If one of these two places has significantly cheaper flights for the time you want to visit, I'd go there. (Assuming this is a good season to visit both places.)

 

[aviastar]

Danners--Now I definitely think you'll be able to make a great vacation out of either of your top two destinations. Either of these places is going to be so new and exciting that I don't think you can go wrong.

Honestly, another thing I would consider would be flight cost. If one of these two places has significantly cheaper flights for the time you want to visit, I'd go there. (Assuming this is a good season to visit both places.)

Flight cost is a good one, actually. We considered Madagascar for our trip and the flights were almost double the cost of mainland Africa, which made the choice pretty easy for us!

As for family trips to Turkey- I am very, very, very fair (like see through skin), blonde and blue eyed and I got A LOT of attention there. People would just walk up and touch my hair, even though I kept it braided and back, I was invited into to people's homes for tea, offered special deals (kinda nice), but my girlfriend who I was traveling with had dark hair and she wasn't included in any of the invitations. It wasn't as creepy as it sounds- I loved the time I spent there- and it wasn't constant, but it was enough that I don't think I would take my blonde children till they were old enough to firmly tell people to not touch them. So just a concern of standing out in a crowd a bit too much with small children for me.

 

[Lovinggems]

I enjoyed Thailand and I loved the food. We hired a guide who took our around Phuket in the beginning. I also went to Bangkok, Koh Samui, then to Cambodia to visit the Angkor Wat. No one really hassled us, but I did extensive research before going.

Australia is huge and you'll probably have to decide on a couple of areas if you're pressed for time. It is expensive here compared with SE Asia.

I like the sound of aviastar's African trip. VRBeauty's suggestion of Nepal/Tibet/Turkey will be on the top of my list too.

 

[justginger]

There is absolutely no reason that you couldn't take children to Turkey. It just may be less comfortable than other mainland European destinations, at times. Unless you only go to main tourist spots, getting from place to place can be involved and a bit of a challenge - for example, I would have hated to walk 5 blocks to the train station with not only my own backpack (which was heavy enough!), but the necessary luggage for a family in 103 degree heat like I did 2 days ago, and then sit outside waiting for the train for 2.5 hours while all around me men were chain smoking and gambling. And I was the only woman in sight, blonde and obviously foreign. An experience for me...with children, perhaps not.

I think the main thing that changes with family holidays is you lose a bit of ability to strike out to more difficult or inconvenient places. If you want to get off the beaten track in Turkey, that sort of travel is required.

DH and I travel to the Cook Islands last year as part of our 6 week honeymoon. We spent 4 days on Rarotonga and 10 days on Aitutaki. It was absolutely HEAVEN - but, if you're looking for 'things to do', it is probably not for you. It is a relaxing place, very, very quiet, with little to do past snorkeling and taking a lagoon boat trip (Aitutaki anyway, Rarotonga is more busting, and now that Qantas is offering direct flights from Sydney, I have no doubt it getting steadily more busy there). DH and I adore Aitutaki and would like to return (that's saying something...out of all the places I've traveled, only Paris specifically, the Bernese Oberland of Switzerland, and Aitutaki make that list!), but we would completely skip Rarotonga this time. We'd stay there long enough to jump on another plane to Aitutaki.

Air New Zealand flies directly there from LAX once/week - when we traveled it was Mondays. You could always book tickets with them, with NZ being the end destination, with a stopover in the Cook Islands. Then you could have the adventure and crazy beauty of NZ, and the relaxing and crazy beauty of the CIs. THAT would be one of my idea holidays!

When I get back to Perth, I'm going to start threads for the major destinations I've traveled to in ATW, and have everyone who has been add their information, opinions, and photos. That way we can start to get a working catalogue on holiday destinations that everyone can flick through to get ideas. Hopefully some of the very well traveled ladies will make their own as well.

 

[indecisive]

For those of you who have been to Turkey, any reason we couldn't go with the family?

HI:

Friends rave about The Cook Islands. That might be our next holiday--some exictement, some rest and relaxation--much beauty.
Another friend just returned from Israel and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Personally I enjoyed SE Asia. Did an overland trek (Bangkok to Bali) and thought it was very well done.
Australia and NZ are also on my list....did Paris and Italy this year instead.

cheers--Sharon

The Cook Islands was on my longer list, but I doubt they'll make it to the short list, only because it seems there would be less to do?

Glad to see a positive review re: SE Asia. I wonder what made your experience so different from justginger's.

I just wanted to add another positive review for SE Aisia, specifically Bali. My experience was so different from justginger. I don't know, people vary? We thought it had amazing natural beauty and the locals were so nice. Our guide took us to his house and we met his family and really got to see what the real Bali was like. We visited temples, hiked at the volcano, went to the beach, had great massages, and amazing food. The scenery and rice terraces are just stunning. We didn't go to the party or cheap shopping areas so maybe that is why we never were hassled? I don't know. Now just because mt DH and I are head over heels for Bali obviously doesn't mean everyone will be but just wanted to give my take on it. NZ and Turkey are also on my list so they sound wonderful as well!

 

[justginger]

Where were you, indecisive? Far away from the south? We were in Kuta, Legian, Seminyak, and Nusa Dua and it was a constant onslaught. I got so incredible sick of the "Hey babydoll, hey sugar, hey sweetheart" that I finally starting saying, "STOP CALLING ME THAT!" in response.

No good food. Lots of fried things, lots of western food on offer - it was hard to find anything that still remotely resembled true Indonesian meals. The volcano area was full of people forcing giant wooden penis carvings in our faces. The beaches were terrible and dirty, full of people trying to sell us temporary tattoos and cheap woven leather bracelets. I did enjoy a couple of the temples and the rice paddy scenery, but was soooooo over the "grab every penny from this white tourist that you can" attitude by the second day. There wasn't one person, from hotel employee to taxi driver to money changer, that wasn't ultimately looking to sell us SOMETHING.

We actually went there the first time for only 4 days, as I had to leave Oz to change visa statuses. We disliked it, but so many coworkers made plans to go over the following year or two, that we thought maybe we hadn't given it a fair chance. So we went again a couple of years later, for 2 weeks. It was 1.99999 weeks too long. Thankfully we spent some time on a neighboring island, Gili Trawangan, and it was much more tolerable.

I can not stand being harassed for money. Gets my back up. I don't want your cheap, knockoff crap, so take my smiling, "No, thank you," and back off. But they never did. It was a vacation to go home from that vacation!

 

[indecisive]

Yeah, that doesn't sound fun or relaxing. Kuta and Legion are the worst I think but we never went there. We mainly stayed in Ubud and loved it. I don't think I actually met any Aussies there, just other Americans, Europeans, and Asians. We did stay in Seminyak and it was ok, but for sure not our favorite part. We were never hassled on the beach by our hotel though. Next time I would do Ubud and then Ahmed or Lovina. The food in Ubud was amazing and in general it was so much more peaceful and beautiful than the south. I really can't imagine most of the people we met calling someone sugar, sweetheart, etc. The monkey forest were pretty cool and the Petanu River gorge was one of my favorite views. Most of our tours were also up north. I don't think we saw another person on our sunrise volcano hike. It is too bad you didn't enjoy Bali. I googled the Cook Islands and they do look like a wonderful honeymoon spot though.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

For certain, travelling in SE Asia has it's fair share of challenges; I found hawkers in Jakarta more pressing than in Bali. But no more than in Mexico (and drunks with the all inclusives....)! Athens rates "up there" with those "requiring" tips for every task. And I've been poked and commented about, to a greater degree in Morocco than any other place I've travelled. Most recently, while picking up my car in Florence, some handsome young man approached me and was rather "forward"! For my husband, his bane was Beijing. It happens.

Can't wait to see what you've planned. Your holiday will be what you make it!

cheers--Sharon

 

[justginger]

LOL, Sharon, yes Athens is high on my list of obnoxious places - in addition to the required 'tips,' I was also openly groped in public by a group of three men, and witnessed at least half a dozen men openly peeing in public places. My DH's bane was Bali - any time he went in public without me, he was offered a plethora of both young girls, and young boys dressed like young girls, for a very 'reasonable' price. Thailand's also very guilty of that. Same same, but different.

I suppose to be fair, it's not Bali that caused me to have a bad time in Bali. Perhaps up north, way north, I would have enjoyed myself. As it was, it was the other Australians who were the straw(s) that broke the camel's back. I hated seeing the way they treated the locals, lording over them, and hearing them get progressively more and more outrageously drunk, slurring on about how they've already got their trips for August AND next December booked. They use it as their personal playground, often at the expense of the locals (for example, none of the wooden carvings in Ubud actually come from native Balinese trees - they've been completely deforested to feed the insatiable demand for giant wooden penises. All their wood is now imported from Java). It made me very uncomfortable to be around.

To some extent, holidays are what you make them. To others, there are some things you can not tolerate. There are deal breakers for each destination that I now choose not to return to - from lack of healthy food choices to the exploitation of locals to mass mistreatment of animals. I would have saved a few thousand bucks (let's be honest, Bali is dirt cheap!) and an important 3 weeks of my annual leave if someone had told me what to honestly expect there. I'm trying to extend a genuine review of what it's like so another person doesn't fall victim to "Eat Pray Love" expectations. There have been quite a few recent Bali visitors I've heard of being extremely disillusioned by what they found waiting there.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

JustG--I would be lying if I didn't notice "drunk" and "loud" Aussie men while in SE Asia....so much so that I began to wonder if it were an epidemic! hhhehehee I recall one nice fella (and only one) apologizing for his drunk friends...... And I concur with your assessment of what is tolerable in a vacation.

Sorry for the Hijack...back to the regular programming!

cheers--Sharon

 

[aviastar]

Athens is also my my Do Not Return list; I wasn't hasseled much there, but just found the city to be clausterphobic, packed to the gills with tourists pushing and shoving at every line, stair, door. The city was none too clean or well kept, getting around was difficult, and I thought most things were over priced. I just didn't much enjoy my time in Athens, although I fell in love with the Greek Islands and would return there in a heartbeat.

 

[Haven]

Athens is also my my Do Not Return list; I wasn't hasseled much there, but just found the city to be clausterphobic, packed to the gills with tourists pushing and shoving at every line, stair, door. The city was none too clean or well kept, getting around was difficult, and I thought most things were over priced. I just didn't much enjoy my time in Athens, although I fell in love with the Greek Islands and would return there in a heartbeat.

I agree. I actually rarely fall in love with a big city while visiting another country. It's always the smaller, out-of-the-way places that steal my heart. (I like to think it's because I live in one of the greatest cities in the world, well just outside of it now, but I think I'm just biased.)

The only other big city I long to revisit is London, and I'm sure that's because I spent an entire summer there in college.

I had a bit of a difficult time in Kusadasi, the port near Ephesus, Turkey. I was there with six friends and 42 high school students. We took the kids to a demonstration on rug making, and one of the men in the shop stared at me throughout the entire demonstration. When we were released to look around, he beelined over to me and proposed marriage. Now, I assume it's a bit of a numbers game to him, and he must propose to many women, but he was extremely persistent. He followed me through the market for a bit, and I would have been somewhat terrified if I wasn't flanked by two huge football player students who refused to leave me alone once they saw what was going on.

The men all over Greece were extremely forward, too, but not nearly as persistent. (But boy, were some of the good looking! We had to keep a close eye on all our teenage girls running around in their short shorts. It was not easy.)

I've learned after traveling a bit that I prefer smaller towns to cities, and a slower pace to a fast one. But even so, whenever we're away we find something to love everywhere. For us, there's something about being away that makes us so relaxed and accepting of whatever environment we find ourselves in. Heck, I had a serious back injury during our entire trip to Belgium and Switzerland last summer, and even that didn't stop me from having an amazing time! Oh, to be away. Sigh.

 

[Blackpaw]

what an exciting dilemma to have im going to give you a bunch of random thoughts, hope they help!

For what you're after (hiking, adventure, nature, relaxation) id say you have a couple of options that could work...you could either stay firmly in the one spot (in which case id say Aust because it has greater diversity of landscapes) to maximise your time, or do a combination of a couple of countries.

For the main part of your trip, Australia or NZ (or you could of course do a week in one, two weeks in the other) fit the bill for nature, hiking and adventure. Hiking and adventure particularly on NZ's south island. Alas i have only been to the North island (very nice too), but the NZ we all dream of is the south so thats where you'd want to be. You'll get mountain landscapes, great hiking, adventure sports etc.

In Australia you can get a bit of this too - definitely beautiful nature, and if you want to see some interesting wildlife Australia will be better for that (the locals ride to work on roos after all!). Sydney is worth a look for the Opera House. If you dive (and i recommend you do!), well its not the best time to be in the far north but you cant always win on that so id go to cairns anyway to see the Daintree rainforest and go snorkelling/diving on the reef. Or if you dont want humidity then the NSW coast has some beautiful beaches. And i havent been but i think you have to go to central australia (and maybe if you can get there the top part of western australia, depends what your priorities are) - you likely wont be back for some time and from all accounts its a very different, beautiful landscape there (not just the big rock but the freshwater rivers, canyons etc).

Then after NZ or Aust you could add on one of the other countries you're thinking about. Thailand or Bali or Fiji would all be great additions. Thailand its the good time of year to be on phuket so you could have some beach time and a few days in bangkok for a bit of culture too. I think if you pick NZ, then two weeks there and a week in thailand would be a great bet (though probably NZ/Fiji is more logical flight wise) because you wont get tropical beaches there at all, in aust you could get nice beaches. If you pick Aust then Thailand or Bali would work (flights will be challenging as im not sure about connections through those countries from the US, you might have to suck it up and pay one way flights - but they're not the destinations of a lifetime for nothing!!) no problem.

In terms of those destinations themselves, well i do infinitely prefer thailand (the food alone!!), but there are certainly nice parts of Bali too. Hawkers are bad yes, but they're bad in lots of places, they tend to bother you or not. Im not so bothered by them so cant really comment (though im not immune to feeling hassled by locals, Africa and the middle east i found challenging on the whole, though not turkey incidentally). Oh and if you decide you'd like to do Asian countries, i would probably pair Thailand with Vietnam and/or Cambodia rather than Bali - just makes more sense geographically!

Re Africa, if its not for you fair enough! I loved it, and it fits your bill in terms of a pre-kids trip, ie, would be difficult and expensive with kids. But if you want Africa to be 'easy' then its very expensive, its very expensive regardless really. If you're big into animals its the holy grail id say though...

Turkey is also a fantastic country, though wouldnt be hugely challenging with kids and is relatively closer to you and cheaper than Aust/NZ, which is why i think it would be a good trip down the track. That said it is a great country to visit.

sorry this spiel doesnt have much logic to it, feel free to ask me questions if you think it would no matter where you choose all the destinations mentioned are awesome and you'll have an amazing trip

Caveat, im australian (living in Canada but)

 

[Haven]

Totally off topic, but: Hi, Blackpaw! So good to see you!

What great traveling insights you shared! This thread is giving me serious, persistent wanderlust.

 

[danners84]

what an exciting dilemma to have im going to give you a bunch of random thoughts, hope they help!

For what you're after (hiking, adventure, nature, relaxation) id say you have a couple of options that could work...you could either stay firmly in the one spot (in which case id say Aust because it has greater diversity of landscapes) to maximise your time, or do a combination of a couple of countries.

For the main part of your trip, Australia or NZ (or you could of course do a week in one, two weeks in the other) fit the bill for nature, hiking and adventure. Hiking and adventure particularly on NZ's south island. Alas i have only been to the North island (very nice too), but the NZ we all dream of is the south so thats where you'd want to be. You'll get mountain landscapes, great hiking, adventure sports etc.

In Australia you can get a bit of this too - definitely beautiful nature, and if you want to see some interesting wildlife Australia will be better for that (the locals ride to work on roos after all!). Sydney is worth a look for the Opera House. If you dive (and i recommend you do!), well its not the best time to be in the far north but you cant always win on that so id go to cairns anyway to see the Daintree rainforest and go snorkelling/diving on the reef. Or if you dont want humidity then the NSW coast has some beautiful beaches. And i havent been but i think you have to go to central australia (and maybe if you can get there the top part of western australia, depends what your priorities are) - you likely wont be back for some time and from all accounts its a very different, beautiful landscape there (not just the big rock but the freshwater rivers, canyons etc).

Then after NZ or Aust you could add on one of the other countries you're thinking about. Thailand or Bali or Fiji would all be great additions. Thailand its the good time of year to be on phuket so you could have some beach time and a few days in bangkok for a bit of culture too. I think if you pick NZ, then two weeks there and a week in thailand would be a great bet (though probably NZ/Fiji is more logical flight wise) because you wont get tropical beaches there at all, in aust you could get nice beaches. If you pick Aust then Thailand or Bali would work (flights will be challenging as im not sure about connections through those countries from the US, you might have to suck it up and pay one way flights - but they're not the destinations of a lifetime for nothing!!) no problem.

In terms of those destinations themselves, well i do infinitely prefer thailand (the food alone!!), but there are certainly nice parts of Bali too. Hawkers are bad yes, but they're bad in lots of places, they tend to bother you or not. Im not so bothered by them so cant really comment (though im not immune to feeling hassled by locals, Africa and the middle east i found challenging on the whole, though not turkey incidentally). Oh and if you decide you'd like to do Asian countries, i would probably pair Thailand with Vietnam and/or Cambodia rather than Bali - just makes more sense geographically!

Re Africa, if its not for you fair enough! I loved it, and it fits your bill in terms of a pre-kids trip, ie, would be difficult and expensive with kids. But if you want Africa to be 'easy' then its very expensive, its very expensive regardless really. If you're big into animals its the holy grail id say though...

Turkey is also a fantastic country, though wouldnt be hugely challenging with kids and is relatively closer to you and cheaper than Aust/NZ, which is why i think it would be a good trip down the track. That said it is a great country to visit.

sorry this spiel doesnt have much logic to it, feel free to ask me questions if you think it would no matter where you choose all the destinations mentioned are awesome and you'll have an amazing trip

Caveat, im australian (living in Canada but)

Blackpaw, I can follow random thoughts for sure - I'm such a stream of consciousness thinker. Thank you so much for your post, it was very helpful - I thought more about Africa/read up a little, and decided I would do it, but our budget just wont allow us to do it the way we would want. I'm leaning more towards your suggestion of NZ/Australia/Fiji, but I've got to take a look at places we would want to go/things to do. Figuring out our budget + time...I can swing a month off of work, but I doubt our budget would support us for that long on that trip.

I'm afraid that I would get agitated pretty quickly with the drunken Aussies and peddlers in SE Asia (this is why we don't go on Caribbean cruises despite our friends begging and going a couple times/year). I'm still going to do more research, but at this point, I'm leaning towards the NZ focused trip.

Bummer what you ladies are saying about Athens. Greece is HIGH up on my list of places to go - would you suggest avoiding Athens altogether despite the history? I wonder if we should take a quick jaunt over when we go to check it out and then hightail it outta there.

canuk- All hijacks welcome - especially the travel-related kind! Keep on...

I'm glad this thread is stirring up the travel bugs in PS - maybe we'll have some good post-trip threads to drool over soon!

 

[Blackpaw]

Totally off topic, but: Hi, Blackpaw! So good to see you!

What great traveling insights you shared! This thread is giving me serious, persistent wanderlust.

Hi Haven good to see you too! not sure if you saw my congrats in another thread, but congrats on expecting, im very happy and excited for you

i know what you mean about wunderlust, im a terrible one in travel threads, my list of places to go just gets longer and longer! thankfully i have six weeks in central america starting next week shame, i read about you having to cancel your trip this year but you may be able to reschedule when you're feeling a little better (and before you're feeling a little too big!)?!

 

[Blackpaw]

what an exciting dilemma to have im going to give you a bunch of random thoughts, hope they help!

For what you're after (hiking, adventure, nature, relaxation) id say you have a couple of options that could work...you could either stay firmly in the one spot (in which case id say Aust because it has greater diversity of landscapes) to maximise your time, or do a combination of a couple of countries.

For the main part of your trip, Australia or NZ (or you could of course do a week in one, two weeks in the other) fit the bill for nature, hiking and adventure. Hiking and adventure particularly on NZ's south island. Alas i have only been to the North island (very nice too), but the NZ we all dream of is the south so thats where you'd want to be. You'll get mountain landscapes, great hiking, adventure sports etc.

In Australia you can get a bit of this too - definitely beautiful nature, and if you want to see some interesting wildlife Australia will be better for that (the locals ride to work on roos after all!). Sydney is worth a look for the Opera House. If you dive (and i recommend you do!), well its not the best time to be in the far north but you cant always win on that so id go to cairns anyway to see the Daintree rainforest and go snorkelling/diving on the reef. Or if you dont want humidity then the NSW coast has some beautiful beaches. And i havent been but i think you have to go to central australia (and maybe if you can get there the top part of western australia, depends what your priorities are) - you likely wont be back for some time and from all accounts its a very different, beautiful landscape there (not just the big rock but the freshwater rivers, canyons etc).

Then after NZ or Aust you could add on one of the other countries you're thinking about. Thailand or Bali or Fiji would all be great additions. Thailand its the good time of year to be on phuket so you could have some beach time and a few days in bangkok for a bit of culture too. I think if you pick NZ, then two weeks there and a week in thailand would be a great bet (though probably NZ/Fiji is more logical flight wise) because you wont get tropical beaches there at all, in aust you could get nice beaches. If you pick Aust then Thailand or Bali would work (flights will be challenging as im not sure about connections through those countries from the US, you might have to suck it up and pay one way flights - but they're not the destinations of a lifetime for nothing!!) no problem.

In terms of those destinations themselves, well i do infinitely prefer thailand (the food alone!!), but there are certainly nice parts of Bali too. Hawkers are bad yes, but they're bad in lots of places, they tend to bother you or not. Im not so bothered by them so cant really comment (though im not immune to feeling hassled by locals, Africa and the middle east i found challenging on the whole, though not turkey incidentally). Oh and if you decide you'd like to do Asian countries, i would probably pair Thailand with Vietnam and/or Cambodia rather than Bali - just makes more sense geographically!

Re Africa, if its not for you fair enough! I loved it, and it fits your bill in terms of a pre-kids trip, ie, would be difficult and expensive with kids. But if you want Africa to be 'easy' then its very expensive, its very expensive regardless really. If you're big into animals its the holy grail id say though...

Turkey is also a fantastic country, though wouldnt be hugely challenging with kids and is relatively closer to you and cheaper than Aust/NZ, which is why i think it would be a good trip down the track. That said it is a great country to visit.

sorry this spiel doesnt have much logic to it, feel free to ask me questions if you think it would no matter where you choose all the destinations mentioned are awesome and you'll have an amazing trip

Caveat, im australian (living in Canada but)

Blackpaw, I can follow random thoughts for sure - I'm such a stream of consciousness thinker. Thank you so much for your post, it was very helpful - I thought more about Africa/read up a little, and decided I would do it, but our budget just wont allow us to do it the way we would want. I'm leaning more towards your suggestion of NZ/Australia/Fiji, but I've got to take a look at places we would want to go/things to do. Figuring out our budget + time...I can swing a month off of work, but I doubt our budget would support us for that long on that trip.

I'm afraid that I would get agitated pretty quickly with the drunken Aussies and peddlers in SE Asia (this is why we don't go on Caribbean cruises despite our friends begging and going a couple times/year). I'm still going to do more research, but at this point, I'm leaning towards the NZ focused trip.

Bummer what you ladies are saying about Athens. Greece is HIGH up on my list of places to go - would you suggest avoiding Athens altogether despite the history? I wonder if we should take a quick jaunt over when we go to check it out and then hightail it outta there.

canuk- All hijacks welcome - especially the travel-related kind! Keep on...

I'm glad this thread is stirring up the travel bugs in PS - maybe we'll have some good post-trip threads to drool over soon!

Fair call on Africa, i backpacked the whole time i was there and still managed to spend a small fortune, its not easy to do it cheap if you want to see the things you go there for...

I think an NZ focused trip would be lovely, or a week NZ and 2 weeks Aust. If you did NZ id think 2 weeks to do both islands, then Tahiti or Fiji would be good add-ons (Tahiti will be expensive though), with Air New Zealand or Air Pacific (or i think air tahiti nui might do a route like that too). That would give you a bit of the tropics and a different culture without the same level of hassle you can get in south east asia. That said my SO says its cheap to fly into Thailand from the US then go to Aust or NZ on a separate trip with air asia or some such so many options!!

In terms of expense, how do you prefer to travel? if you're willing to go private rooms in backpackers that can help with cost a lot, esp in aust/nz where accom prices are higher than the US (because the high minimum wage pushes up hotel operating costs).

I really quite enjoyed Athens! I had good food there and enjoyed the shopping and the monuments, didnt do much in the way of museums. In any case i liked it enough to stay there twice for a few days each on the tail end of visiting different island chains. Its all relative i guess, i was there in early September so perhaps not the height of high season, and perhaps where id come from (the mid east) made me more forgiving of the tourist trade there...

 

[Blackpaw]

Danners, im sorry! im going to go back on what i just said, i wouldnt necessarily add Tahiti or Fiji unless you really want some tropical beach action (in that case id still probably recommend you get that in Australia). Ive assumed you're from the US (my apologies if you're not!) and the caribbean is just so close and relatively so cheap. Tahiti and Fiji are certainly paradises (tahiti esp) but i cant believe they're on so entirely another level as to justify the price. Id say if you want a bit of that you may as well go to Thailand so you also get to experience a very different culture. (south pacific islands of course have their own cultures but i dont think you'd get the, um 'depth'(?) of cultural experience that you get in south east asia).

Sorry again for my ramblings

 

[Snicklefritz]

When you called for Travelers the first thing that came to mind was My Big Fat Gypy Wedding

Wish I had some thoughts for you because that would mean I'd have visited any of the fantastic locations your considering, but unfortunately not. Seems like some others around here have some helpful advice though. Hope you find your dream, far-away vacay spot! Sounds like you couldn't go wrong with any of them!

 

[Haven]

Aw, thanks Blackpaw! I'm excited and terrified! Your Central America trip sounds amazing. I hope you'll post pictures for us when you return!

Danners--Are you any closer to a decision, or is all this talk of different destinations just making it more difficult? I really, truly believe you'll have a wonderful trip regardless of where you go, so hopefully that can be of some comfort!