To Foie Gras ... OR ... Not To Foie Gras???

[msdarlinjoy]

Hi everyone ~

I have never eaten this, I don''t think I would want to ... but ... Have you tried it? Would you try it?

What do you think about the ban in Chicago?

Do you think it''s fair for someone to tell you what you can or can''t eat?

I guess there is alot of debate going on about if it is cruel to animals, I have not seen this first hand, and one side says Yes, and the other side is saying No ... I am just left with ...

''s!

Any response appreciated. Have a nice day!

 

[rainbowtrout]

I have tried it, and it's really good, but...

I am fine with duck foie gras, but not goose. I'm not sure how it isn't cruelty to animals. If you wouldn't do it to a dog... OTOH, I think this should be a personal choice--it would be kind of a sadder culinary world if you could never have it again.


ETA: I also find it a little insulting that they might ban foie gras but not veal, or any number of horrifying farming practices.

 

[JulieN]

CA ban on production and sale in 2012.

If it's animal cruelty, then that's what it is, but what about all the other food practices? Forcing hormones into cows and artificially inseminating them to produce milk when the US is overproducing milk and the government has to establish a price floor and buy so much of it to keep dairy farmers in business that they're giving it away to other countries that have enough and don't want it!

 

[Sundial]

I have tried foie gras and I don''t care for it. Not much chance of it being banned here in New Mexico because hardly anyone would even know what it is. I have to agree with Rainbowtrout though if we are going to ban foie gras then why not VEAL???

 

[diamondfan]

It is pretty awful what they do to get foie gras. Personally it makes me ill, I hate all liver, so I would not eat it nor would I care about a ban in terms of feeling someone is dictating my choices. BUT, we could carry this to quite a degree, so I am not sure I support a ban. I do eat meat, so it is a bit hard for me to judge...but some things are clearly more cruel than others.

 

[aussiegirl23]

a) I have never tried Foie Gras

b) I will never try Foie Gras

c) I wish they''d ban Foie Gras in ALL states - and NOW

d) I wish the same logic would be used for Veal, caged chickens, steroids & antibiotics for cattle, etc...

When I was a little kid I didn''t understand that "Veal" was just another name for a calf - I mean lamb is called lamb, so why is veal not called calf?? As soon as my poor little kid brain made the connection, that was it. I couldn''t eat it any more.

At this point I eat as a vegetarian 98% of the time, and indulge in a steak or chicken breast once in a great while. I know that sounds hypocritical, but that carnivorous part of me kicks in once in a while and I get a bit crazy if I ignore it too long!

Aussiegirl : p

 

[Allisonfaye]

I eat foie gras. I love foie gras. My husband loves it too. I don''t feel like I have enough information about the practices to make an informed decision. I think sometimes militant groups get a cause and put out misinformation or form opinions based on faulty information. The public only hears one side of it or forms conclusions without knowing the facts. They don''t want to be perceived as doing anything cruel so they automatically support the ban without having all the correct info.

I have cut back on it a lot since I heard about it being cruel but I believe there are other practices that are probably just as or more cruel that I don''t know about because I am not there seeing what is going on and I am being fed biased information. (But I could be wrong).

I live in the suburbs of Chicago and I don''t know how I feel about the ban. I haven''t given it much though to be honest.

I probably would eat it occasionally, but not often.

 

[Kaleigh]

Can someone please tell me about the cruel practices involved with Foie Gras?? I used to buy it for Nanny on special occassions. Now that she is gone, I don''t have a reason to buy it. I had no clue about this until now.... Thanks

 

[diamondfan]

I think they literally ram the food into the animal (goose?) so that it impacts its body and then the liver is better? I think that is somewhat what it is...it is pretty heinous...

ETA: it can be duck or goose, and it is regularly force fed so it enlarges the liver and makes it more delicate.

 

[Mara]

i can''t stand foie gras...bah! it sounds so gross. i also am not into veal or anything like that. and sweetbreads?! yak! ban it all !

 

[diamondfan]

I do not mind veal, but add tripe, tongue, snails, frog''s legs and calves brains to the list...

 

[msdarlinjoy]

Hi Lisa ~

I found this info on Foie Gras ...

Background

Guillermo and Junny Gonzalez left their homeland of El Salvador in 1985 to pursue a new venture: The establishment of a foie gras farm in the United States. They traveled first to France where they apprenticed in foie gras production with the respected Dubois family in the Perigord Region.

In November of that year, Guillermo traveled to Northern California to explore the wine country in hopes of finding a farm and processing plant to launch their business. His first steps were to meet with the law enforcement division of the California Department of Food and Agriculture in Sacramento, and with poultry specialists in the Avian Science Department of the University of California at Davis . His intention was to do everything by the book and with the utmost attention to detail and proper procedure.

A Day in the Life

Sonoma Foie Gras is committed to the highest standards of animal welfare, and utilizes humane and modern techniques in the raising and feeding of ducks. Ducks are never individually caged and are allowed to free range for most of their lives.

The ducklings are received when they are one day old. They spend the first 5 - 8 weeks in a barn, under heat lamps and on bedding of wood shavings while they develop their feathers. They walk about and have access to all natural feed and water. Once they have enough feathering, they are brought out to the walnut orchards, where they continue to roam free range for about two months. Here again, they have access to all natural feed (no hormones or antibiotics), water and shade.

During the final two weeks, they are housed in temperature-controlled barns, where they are kept in groups of about 12 ducks per pen measuring about 33 square feet. They are tube fed twice per day by the same feeder, using a pre-measured quantity of feed.

Natural Capacity

The first evidence of foie gras is found in ancient Egyptian history, some 45 centuries ago. In the wild, ducks and geese gorge themselves prior to migration in order to temporarily store fat in their liver and skin, which they use for energy during their migration. The managed feeding takes advantage of this ability by placing food in the esophagus through a tube, using the duck''s physiological built-in capacity to transform the excess feed into fat and store it in the liver.

Each feeding takes only a few seconds and the pressure applied has been studied to be non-injurious to the duck. A tube is inserted down the duck''s esophagus which deposits food as it is drawn out of the esophagus. Since ducks do not have a gag reflex, throat or stomach, the food is not “crammed down the throat” or “pumped into the stomach.” Instead, the esophagus serves as a holding area for the feed while it is digested. The duck''s esophagus, as with any waterfowl such as the blue heron, which is able to swallow large, live fish, is expandable and pliable. For these reasons, the feeding tube is not harmful to the animal, as proven by scientific studies.

Since the process of producing foie gras is physiological rather than pathological, the fattened liver, or foie gras, created by managed feeding, would return to its normal size if the process were abandoned.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/13/2006 10:54:17 PM
Author: diamondfan
I think they literally ram the food into the animal (goose?) so that it impacts its body and then the liver is better? I think that is somewhat what it is...it is pretty heinous...

ETA: it can be duck or goose, and it is regularly force fed so it enlarges the liver and makes it more delicate.

That''s terrible, thanks for the 411.

 

[diamondfan]

no problem...I am not a fan of it...

 

[msdarlinjoy]

I believe there are two Foie Gras farms in the United States.

1. Hudson Valley Foie Gras Farm in New York, and
2. Sonoma Valley Foie Gras Farm in California.

I believe that these two are the only farms that have mostly free range roam.

According to the Hudson Valley FG farm ... it sells not only the Foie Gras, but everything about the duck is sold, except for the quack.

This is what their site had to say:

Hudson Valley gets about $50 for all the parts of each bird it sells to its 75 wholesalers; the liver alone fetches about $28 to $36 a pound, depending on the grade. Byproducts include the breast, which is called a magret; the legs, which are used for confit; feathers for down; tubs of duck fat for cooking or, for French-food devotees, spreading like butter on a baguette; the skin for crackling, and what the French call lardon, a pork-rind-like snack.
"We sell everything but the quack," Mr. Ginor said.

I guess the Hudson Valley farm states that each feeder is given 300 ducklings to care for. They are given a bounus for taking the best care of their ducklings ... an incentive I guess, as not to be rough or kill them ... According to their site the death rate of their ducks is at about 3%. They say that is a lower death rate than most chicken & turkey farms out their. According to a online newpaper report, that they run their facility like the Sonoma Valley in regards to free range roam until the last two weeks of life.

I understand that the duck''s esophagus is like a holding tube. I witness this when I go feed the ducks at a nearby pond by the University. They will gorge themselves and litterally take the bread out of your hand! The geese are even more bold and brazen and sometimes scarry! They will eat so much sometimes that they can''t swallow all the bread, I thought they would choke the first time I saw this. It freaked me out! But within about 10 mins ... the bread that was half way down and half way sticking out ... went down.

Ok, so they normally gorge themselves before winter to store up fat in their livers, and under their skin so that their bodies can use it up as they need it when they migrate, so these farms sound like they are just taking advantage of this gorging ability to get what they are after on a scheduled time frame rather than just once a year at the migratory season.

Ok ... so lets say the tube feeding doesn''t hurt them. I have seen a duck swallow a rather large fish in the pond with the fish tail hanging out before ... but what about the last week of life?

I don''t know if a duck''s liver is anything like a humans liver, and I know that I shouldn''t be comparing human life to animal life that was raised to be eaten, but I guess I wonder.

In a human the liver itself is not a stretchy organ. The skin is tight, with not much give to it. In humans that have a very fatty liver, patients often complain of right sided pain, due to the fact that the liver is already big & fatty, but just can''t stretch anymore, resulting in deterioration, and pain. So, with a duck, is it the same way? I wonder the first week the liver might enlarge but do they feel pain the second week of eating alot of fatty grain?

In a human, if you loose about 15 % of weight, these people with a big fatty liver will loose some of it''s fat, resulting in less pressure/pain. It sounds like the duck''s liver is the same. After they binge and gorge themselves for the winter, and then fly it all off, it returns back to normal. I wonder if this is uncomfortable for them to do?

I don''t know. I keep telling myself that this is an animal that is being raised for food, most of its parts are being used and it is being taken care of rather nicely in the beginning. I know no meat that is taken care of 100% from beginning to end ... no one wants to think about the end process. But, sometimes I do. I don''t like to though.

The other thing that I think about is "Do I think it is fair for someone to tell me that I no longer can eat something". Like for example, I occaisionally will eat venison. I love it. If it was dressed in the field correctly and prepared correctly ... it can be delish! But I know there are people out there who think no one should kill Bambi or Bambi''s Ma & Pa ... but do I want my state or city to tell me that if a deer came onto my uncles personal property on his mass acres of wooded land ... that he can''t shoot one, and share some meat with me? I don''t know.

It gets kind of cloudy for me.

 

[dazedland]

I don''t even know what it is still, but thanks for explaining how they do it

 

[allycat0303]

Well in Quebec with all of the french culture, and fine french cuisine, foie gras is on nearly every menu of a fancy resturant. I''ve never tried it and I wouldn''t be intrested in trying it. I''ve never tried duck, veal, or lamb before. I don''t know, I have a hard time eating any animal that I find very attractive

 

[MiniMouse]

I've never tried foie gras, didn't know what it was until I read this thread. However, looking on the Internet I'm horrified

and will never try foie gras.
http://www.goveg.com/feat/foie/
I've cut and copied details below:

THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF FOIE GRAS
Foie gras, French for "fatty liver," is made from the grotesquely enlarged livers of male ducks and geese. The birds are kept in tiny wire cages or packed into sheds. Pipes are repeatedly shoved down the birds' throats, and up to 4 pounds of grain and fat are pumped into their stomachs two or three times every day. The pipes puncture many birds' throats, sometimes causing the animals to bleed to death. This cruel procedure causes the birds' livers to become diseased and swell to up to 10 times their normal size. Many birds become too sick to stand up. The birds who survive the force-feeding are killed, and their livers are sold for foie gras.

INVESTIGATIONS
Undercover investigations at America's two leading foie gras producers, Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New York and Sonoma Foie Gras in California, revealed horrific cruelty. Investigators from GourmetCruelty.com and the Animal Protection and Rescue League found that ducks were crammed into filthy, feces-ridden sheds and that others were isolated in wire cages that were so small that they could barely move. They also observed barrels full of dead ducks who had choked to death or whose organs had ruptured during the traumatic force-feeding process. The investigators rescued 15 ducks, including two who were being eaten alive by rats because they could not move. View video and photographic evidence of this cruelty.

A PETA investigation at Hudson Valley Foie Gras (then called "Commonwealth Enterprises") revealed extremely high death rates. So many ducks died when their stomachs burst from overfeeding that workers who killed fewer than 50 birds per month were given a bonus. In addition to ruptured stomachs and liver disease, many ducks develop foot infections, kidney necrosis, spleen damage, bruised and broken bills, and tumor-like lumps in their throats. One duck had a maggot-infested neck wound that was so severe that water spilled out of it when he drank.

Cruelty in foie gras factory farms in other countries is similarly hideous.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 8/14/2006 6:10:49 AM
Author: MiniMouse

I''ve never tried foie gras, didn''t know what it was until I read this thread. However, looking on the Internet I''m horrified

and will never try foie gras.
http://www.goveg.com/feat/foie/
I''ve cut and copied details below:

THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF FOIE GRAS
Foie gras, French for ''fatty liver,'' is made from the grotesquely enlarged livers of male ducks and geese. The birds are kept in tiny wire cages or packed into sheds. Pipes are repeatedly shoved down the birds'' throats, and up to 4 pounds of grain and fat are pumped into their stomachs two or three times every day. The pipes puncture many birds'' throats, sometimes causing the animals to bleed to death. This cruel procedure causes the birds'' livers to become diseased and swell to up to 10 times their normal size. Many birds become too sick to stand up. The birds who survive the force-feeding are killed, and their livers are sold for foie gras.

INVESTIGATIONS
Undercover investigations at America''s two leading foie gras producers, Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New York and Sonoma Foie Gras in California, revealed horrific cruelty. Investigators from GourmetCruelty.com and the Animal Protection and Rescue League found that ducks were crammed into filthy, feces-ridden sheds and that others were isolated in wire cages that were so small that they could barely move. They also observed barrels full of dead ducks who had choked to death or whose organs had ruptured during the traumatic force-feeding process. The investigators rescued 15 ducks, including two who were being eaten alive by rats because they could not move. View video and photographic evidence of this cruelty.

A PETA investigation at Hudson Valley Foie Gras (then called ''Commonwealth Enterprises'') revealed extremely high death rates. So many ducks died when their stomachs burst from overfeeding that workers who killed fewer than 50 birds per month were given a bonus. In addition to ruptured stomachs and liver disease, many ducks develop foot infections, kidney necrosis, spleen damage, bruised and broken bills, and tumor-like lumps in their throats. One duck had a maggot-infested neck wound that was so severe that water spilled out of it when he drank.

Cruelty in foie gras factory farms in other countries is similarly hideous.

Well, since the source of this information is PETA, I would have some degree of skepticisim as to its accuracy. Not saying it IS false, but I don''t believe everything I read on the internet either. It would be like reading about the reaction of a fetus from a prolifer. (PLEASE, I don''t mean to start an abortion debate. Just trying to make a point.)

I think there is a ''cute factor'' with this kind of stuff. Often people aren''t bothered by eating the ugly animals, cow, pig...but when it comes to eating a cute animal...duck, lamb, etc, they feel guilty. Doesn''t seem fair to the ugly animals.

Great topic, btw.

 

[rainbowtrout]

I''ve read that it is not necessary to force feed ducks in the same manner you do geese (this was in a NYT article I think). I am pretty sure that we could get an moderately engorged liver by just letting them do their thing and stuff themselves naturally...but it probably wouldn''t have as high of a profit margin per duck. Still, that would be a nice compromise.

There are certain attempts to outlaw foods I find silly. Here in MA there''s move to outlaw lobster...but not all fish??? In terms of cruelty I would eat a lobster in a minute before I ate an average chicken breast. Besides, it''s easy enough to stick a needle in their heads before you boil them.

In some ways, there isn''t really ANY great way to die, and if you go with PETA ANY kind of meat-eating is bad, bad, bad. Do I think factory farming is bad? Yes. Do I think people could stand meat being more expensive and periodic bans on fishing? Yes. My concern is about half for the animals and half for the environment. It''s in our own self interest not to overfish or factory farm (hello, mad cow).

But I don''t really find an intrinsic problem with eating another animal. I just don''t. To survive we consume other forms of life, period. Yeah, there''s a differance between a plant and a cow--I see that differance mostly in their ability to feel pain and being aware of what is happening to them. So if steps are taken to minimize their pain and let them enjoy a life that is healthier for them AND us...why not?

 

[rainbowtrout]

On the topic of PETA:

My freshman year at college they put up an exhibit near campus. It had pictures of cows next to pictures of Holocaust victims.

Don''t even get me started...

 

[rainbowtrout]

The other thing that I think about is ''Do I think it is fair for someone to tell me that I no longer can eat something''. Like for example, I occaisionally will eat venison. I love it. If it was dressed in the field correctly and prepared correctly ... it can be delish! But I know there are people out there who think no one should kill Bambi or Bambi''s Ma & Pa ... but do I want my state or city to tell me that if a deer came onto my uncles personal property on his mass acres of wooded land ... that he can''t shoot one, and share some meat with me? I don''t know.


It gets kind of cloudy for me.




[/quote]


On the subject of Bambi---ARRRRGH. I''m with you here. We killed off all of the deer''s natural predators. We HAVE to shoot them now to keep down their populations. This isn''t some hunter myth!! Deer breed like rabbits and there is nothing cruel about a skilled hunter felling them with a single shot through the head. Sight nicer than a wolf pack!

 

[sumbride]

I think this is one of those issues where it''s easy to inflame the public in either direction depending on how you spin the story... Don''t take any of those "how it''s made" as absolute fact because they are all full of spin. Personally, I like foie gras but I don''t order it very often because it is like eating pure fat and it''s very expensive. I would like to have the option to order it in the future, however, and I don''t think anybody should tell us what we can and can''t eat. There''s no universal taboo on duck liver as there is on canibalism, so please don''t get into that.

I have noticed one thing though... by telling people it''s going to be banned, they are driving up demand for people that like it as well as people who have never tried it and feel now that they must. Just saw an article on cnn.com that says Chicago restaurants are creating whole menus serving it. Is that good for the animals? Probably not.

 

[fire&ice]

I don''t believe ANY SPIN that PETA has. Hypocrites to an art form.

That said, I don''t eat it.

 

[Cind11]

I will not eat it because I have read how cruelly the animals are treated. I also won''t eat veal. But I do feel like a hypocrite because I sometimes feel that I should give up eating all meat having read how some of the other farm animals are raised.

 

[CaptAubrey]

The Capt has eaten foie gras quite a few times, but not as often as he would like.

If you have ever seen a feedlock/slaughterhouse in person, you would either become a vegetarian on the spot or throw up your hands and accept that Bismark had a point with his remark about laws and sausages.

Geese and ducks no doubt do not enjoy what they go through to produce foie gras, but the same can be said for virtually any domestic animal whose flesh is commonly consumed.

Puppies are considered a delicacy in several Asian countries, and some folks in Africa regularly eat monkey meat. Life is messy.

 

[monarch64]

I've never tried foie gras. I live in the near west suburbs of Chicago and heard about the ban when it happened, and then I read into the methods used to produce foie gras, and was pretty disgusted by it. I quit eating meat almost 1 year ago, for personal and health reasons. Is there a humane way to kill an animal for human consumption? I don't know, maybe...is there a "humane" way to put a human to death for committing a heinous crime? Hmmm. Depends on where you're coming from, I guess.

I will say this: I grew up on a very small farm in southern Indiana. By very small I mean 65 acres, one large barn, 3 outbuildings, 50 head of cattle (some for milk, some for meat), a couple horses, some chickens and ducks, etc. I can remember being a little girl, feeding the calves early in the morning, naming them, seeing females give birth, and then asking my mom where they were going when they got hauled off in a truck when the babies were grown and fattened up. Well, it was sort of like finding out there is no Santa Claus.

Personally, I don't care if you eat meat or not. I've done my research, grew up around farms, small and factory alike, and my decision was not to eat it any longer. I believe everyone should have a choice in whether they want to eat meat or not even though I find it disgusting. I don't think banning something really ever works, whether it is justified or not...there will always be those who will find a way to get the product illegally, and those who are willing to sell it to them for a price.

ETA: on the subject of killing off deer because of population control/health of the species: hmmm, why is it that we can spay and neuter cats and dogs, but we can't implement some form of birth control for the deer population? Maybe because hunting is too big a business? Just a thought.

 

[rainbowtrout]

people have tried some of those programs, actually. I remember it was a big consideration about a yr ago during a Prion outbreak among some midwestern deer (the other option being mass poisoning!). Also, it's quite expensive--think of how much spaying a female horse would cost...I guess you could castrate the bucks. Come to think, I believer there might be a chemical option as well.

I personally don't know that I wouldn't rather they are just shot and eaten.


ETA:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051011/LIVING/510110321/1007/LIVING

So yes, there IS a chemical injection option. it's still quite expensive and experimental, at least from a quick look at a few pro and opposed to hunting sites.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 8/14/2006 9:06:51 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
people have tried some of those programs, actually. I remember it was a big consideration about a yr ago during a Prion outbreak among some midwestern deer (the other option being mass poisoning!). Also, it''s quite expensive--think of how much spaying a female horse would cost...I guess you could castrate the bucks. Come to think, I believer there might be a chemical option as well.

I personally don''t know that I wouldn''t rather they are just shot and eaten.


ETA:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051011/LIVING/510110321/1007/LIVING

So yes, there IS a chemical injection option. it''s still quite expensive and experimental, at least from a quick look at a few pro and opposed to hunting sites.

Thanks for the info, Rainbow. Believe me, I am not living in some dream world thinking that all the animals should be saved--I just wanted to make the point that we value certain animals more than others, it seems, due to the ability to domesticate them or the cute factor. The town I came from would absolutely never support paying taxes towards birth control for deer, they are hunters through and through and some of them even get through the winters on deer meat. Obviously, I know it isn''t economically feasible, but I grew up with a different perspective than most, having land and being able to admire them. There was a thread here not too awfully long ago about Dick Cheney''s hunting accident, which led to some debate over deer hunting as well... but I won''t hijack this thread any further on that subject. I know you can''t really compare a city''s foie gras ban to deer population control, anyway.

 

[sunkist]

Date: 8/13/2006 11:02:50 PM
Author: Mara
i can''t stand foie gras...bah! it sounds so gross. i also am not into veal or anything like that. and sweetbreads?! yak! ban it all !

But just because you don''t care for the taste of foie gras isn''t a reason to ban it... I don''t see anything wrong with it.

I''ve tasted it, and it was pretty good. Definitely not something I''d order on my own, but if it''s on the table, sure! I''ll have some...