Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for this?

[Puppmom]

MIL has three children - DH and two daughters. She has no contact with the eldest daughter (H). Something big went down and the ILs kicked her out when she was 18. No one really knows what happened but MIL pretends H doesn't exist - no photos, refers to only one daughter etc.

Recently, MIL has been recounting childhood memories a lot. I think it's because she has grand kids and likes to compare notes. Anyway, she does this weird thing where she transfers positive memories of H onto the other two kids. I don't know the difference because I wasn't there but DH and his other sister, J, will tell me after the fact that it was H, not one of them, that said or did what MIL was recounting. Recently my two year old started saying his entire name - first middle and last. MIL began telling a story about how J used to pronounce her name in a funny way. Strange thing is the names she's saying totally rhyme with H's name and sound NOTHING like J's name.

DH and J never say anything to MIL because it doesn't hurt anyone but this is very intriguing to me. Is there a term for this? When someone transfers positive memories from one person to another? It doesn't seem as simple as things just being foggy after many years but maybe it is?

MIL's kids/grand kids are everything to her so it's sad to me that something so awful happened that she forced herself to forget one of her children.

ETA-I'm laughing at myself for asking this since I can barely remember my kids' names some days. Fast forward 30 years and I'll probably mix everything up!

 

[junebug17]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

I'm neither a therapist or a psychiatrist, but it won't prevent me from being an armchair one lol. I'm just thinking out loud, but I wonder if it's a way for mil to remember and think about her daughter without talking directly about her. It might even be unconscious on mil's part. Pretending a child no longer exists has got to be traumatic and must take it's toll on the person's psyche, and I wonder if the brain comes up with ways for the person to somehow cope with the trauma.

What a sad and tragic situation. It makes you wonder what an 18 year old could possibly have done to incur such wrath. Her parents reaction is very extreme. Does your husband have contact with his sister?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Does the MIL have a tendency, in general, of making up or exaggerating stories to make them more interesting? I am just wondering because I do have a relative who transfers what one person has said and pretends another it is a different person (or will say a different person one another did). Often her stories are extremely elaborate. I'm just wondering if your MIL does the same. It's almost as if they're living in a fantasy reality.

I can't imagine what it is like to have decided that a child doesn't exist, but, based on watching/listening to the relative of mine, and upon doing a lot of research, it appears it become a habit and they get wrapped up in it.

 

[Puppmom]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

June, I don't know much about the situation that led up to the sister being kicked out other than it was something that built over a few years and that MIL and FIL tried to put her in therapy and they almost divorced over it because FIL didn't want to kick her out. MIL apparently said H had to go or she was leaving with the other two kids. Contact with H is very limited and always interesting. Not long ago DH's grandmother died and H reached out for the first time in years to see if she was entitled to inheritance. By reach out I mean she sent a letter with her banking instructions saying to send her money there. Based on what DH's grandmother had told us and our limited interactions, it seems she may have some mental illness. Both DH and his sister have tried reaching out to her but it always results in these bizarre conversations that scare them away.

MC, MIL sometimes uses dramatic words to describe situations but not to the extent that it changes the story. She's a writer and tends to be very descriptive. Sometimes I really want to ask what happened because I seriously cannot fathom what could have happened that would cause MIL to disown a child. If you could see how important her kids and grand kids are to her, you would never believe that happened.

The really strange thing is that MIL was pretty good about documenting her kids' childhoods. She often refers to DHs book to compare his physical stats/milestones to our kids and she also wrote stories in his book about firsts/special events.

 

[junebug17]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Maybe attributing the childhood memories of her daughter to others is a "safe" way for her to talk about her, a remembrance of a more pleasant time free from the trauma of what happened when the daughter was older - but mil has conditioned herself for so long not to speak of her daughter that she feels more comfortable saying it was another child. Unspoken feelings have a way of festering inside a person and I think it has to come out, in some form, eventually. I don't think it's possible for a parent to truly act as if their child never even existed.

Of course, I guess mil could just be confused...but then I think she'd be confused about other things that happened in the past as well.

eta: We were posting at the same time puppmom! Ah ok, sounds like your dh's sister has some serious issues that created problems in the family. Very sad for everyone. But I still feel it might be mil's way of remembering her daughter. Maybe even her way of grieving for her lost daughter. Memories of our grown children when they were young are very sweet and poignant. When my daughter and I were having problems during her high school years I would hold a card she had made for me when she was 5 saying "I love you mommy" and I would just cry and want my sweet little girl back.

 

[rubyshoes]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Sometimes I really want to ask what happened because I seriously cannot fathom what could have happened that would cause MIL to disown a child.

Ok, I have zero knowledge of psychology but if I were you, I would actually ask MIL what happened (obviously in a discreet and sensitive way). It sounds like she misses and remembers her child and wants to talk about her but can't or bites her tongue. I have older relatives in my family and wherever there has been a situation of someone being disowned or completely cutting themselves out, there is a desire to share and talk about it. My mom shocked me last year by asking her SIL about some personal stuff (I was horrified she was so direct) but her SIL not only opened up and talked to her but they've become even closer to each other since then. And btw this SIL NEVER talks about that particular topic to anyone. I don't believe family secrets do anyone any good. Just ask her.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

It sounds to me like a form of projection. Projection is a defense mechanism where a person projects thoughts, feelings, desires, motivations, etc. onto someone else. Your MIL seems to be projecting actual memories (or characteristics) of one child onto another. Projection is typically a means of justifying certain actions that would normally be considered heinous. It's possible that your MIL may be engaging in this for the sole purpose of maintaining an illusion - in her case, the illusion is her thought process/line of reasoning that is associated with the action of terminating her relationship with one of her own children.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Sometimes I really want to ask what happened because I seriously cannot fathom what could have happened that would cause MIL to disown a child.

Ok, I have zero knowledge of psychology but if I were you, I would actually ask MIL what happened (obviously in a discreet and sensitive way). It sounds like she misses and remembers her child and wants to talk about her but can't or bites her tongue. I have older relatives in my family and wherever there has been a situation of someone being disowned or completely cutting themselves out, there is a desire to share and talk about it. My mom shocked me last year by asking her SIL about some personal stuff (I was horrified she was so direct) but her SIL not only opened up and talked to her but they've become even closer to each other since then. And btw this SIL NEVER talks about that particular topic to anyone. I don't believe family secrets do anyone any good. Just ask her.

rubyshoes makes a good point about your MIL maybe trying to find ways to fit her disowned child into conversation because there is some longing there.

Another thought I have is you can only be in denial so long before whatever it is you're suppressing starts to leak out the sides in some way. If in her mind MIL has only two children and is not willing to accept the reality that she has three, how else is she supposed to justify and accept the memories(that she may have tried to suppress for years) she has of her third child besides attributing them to the two children she acknowledges? My guess is your MIL is not interested in talking to a counselor about this or of reconciling with her other daughter? I'm no therapist - though I was for a short while - and am currently an LMSW.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

I am going to guess-and it is only a guess-at what happened years ago. H became mentally ill in her late teens and her mother couldn't accept her behavior. Her father was more understanding and wanted to help her. In the end her father had to choose between his wife and daughter. H is still out there, wandering around, mentally ill. Her mother has never ceased to feel hostile towards her for whatever angry and rebellious behavior her mental illness (probably bi-polar disorder) caused and has nursed this grudge for years.

As I said, this is simply a wild guess.... I would like it if you found out more from your husband and, if possible without upsetting the delicate balance, even your mother-in-law. (I wouldn't probe too openly, would be very circumspect, with your mother-in-law!!!)

Deb/AGBF

 

[Tuckins1]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

This is weird- I used to know a guy who's mom was the same way. She had three children (2 daughters and a son). When her oldest daughter ended up marrying and having children by a black man, she absolutely cut her out of her life. (Did I forget to mention she's a HUUUUGE racist?) She says she only has two children, doesn't even acknowledge her grandchildren, etc... She's absolutely nuts, though. She didn't transfer memories, but she did actually CUT her other daughter out of family pictures. It was the weirdest family dynamic! I'm really glad I don't speak to any of them anymore. They were all totally poison.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Deb has a good guess. Mental illnesses often start showing themselves around her age. It can be very hard on a family and I have had many patients whose families gave up on them long ago. Another guess could be addiction. Also is common for family to disown/ignore/detach. Personally, I would want to know what happened. Family secrets make me uncomfortable. As a mother I have thought how I would react if my child has mental health/addiction issues. I cannot image ever disowning her for any reason. How painful. As for the misplaced memories, sounds like maybe she is having some memory issues of her own. Sounds like she deliberately cut her daughter out of her life so I am guessing it is subconscious/confusion.

 

[JaneSmith]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Memories of our grown children when they were young are very sweet and poignant. When my daughter and I were having problems during her high school years I would hold a card she had made for me when she was 5 saying "I love you mommy" and I would just cry and want my sweet little girl back.

This made me tear up. I have a sweet little girl, and sometimes when she is being particularly trying I think to myself 'she's not going to be small for long'. I kneel down and look at her baby face and give her a hug and a kiss.


Puppmom, how much younger than H is your husband and SIL? Do they not remember what happened?
I think your MIL is probably just remembering the good bits and attributing them to the acknowledged kids so she doesn't have to admit she ever had H. Hard to tell though. Does MIL have any mental health history? Maybe H had a more severe form of what MIL has and MIL couldn't take the similarity or behaviour? Is the family religious and H went against some doctrine? I'm just throwing out ideas. It takes a lot to disown a child, let alone erase her from life and memory.
At least she is a good mum to the other kids, and a good grandma. I hope you can figure it out.

 

[distracts]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Contact with H is very limited and always interesting. Not long ago DH's grandmother died and H reached out for the first time in years to see if she was entitled to inheritance. By reach out I mean she sent a letter with her banking instructions saying to send her money there. Based on what DH's grandmother had told us and our limited interactions, it seems she may have some mental illness. Both DH and his sister have tried reaching out to her but it always results in these bizarre conversations that scare them away.

So what is really interesting about this to me is that my family has a similar situation. My grandparents adopted a girl (they had all boys), and crazy stuff happened, they put her through college and an advanced degree and then evidently there was an even bigger blowup and they disowned her (my dad doesn't know for sure but thinks that she stole a bunch of money and it was just the last straw). NO ONE speaks to her, because every time they do she basically asks for money. Even facebooked EVERYONE after my grandfather died wanting her money from it (wah? For one, my grandmother is still alive, for two, there's not exactly a huge inheritance, for three, she's in a professional white collar job known for being reasonably well paying, idk what the money issue is). My grandparents never, ever spoke of her. They didn't ever transfer her actions in recollection but just edited her out like she was never there. My dad and uncles will talk about it if you ask and occasionally of their own volition but the one cousin who dared ask my grandparents got a brush-off reply. So we won't ever know what really happened, but oh well.

My guess in both of these situations is that it's likely some sort of personality disorder that made dealing with them unbearable, so that the parents had to cut them out for their own sanity. Something like narcissistic personality disorder. I agree with AGBF that H could have been bipolar (from the stories of my erstwhile aunt, I think that is unlikely in her situation) - I know a number of people who have cut bipolar parents/relatives out of their lives. I actually think NPD and being bipolar are the two most common reasons I see for detaching from relatives entirely. In my extensive experience of "knowing some people," "reading some books," and "lurking on lots of forums."

 

[House Cat]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Could this be a medical problem, such as early onset Alzheimer's or some other form of dementia? It sounds like memories are getting skewed somehow. Maybe I am missing something? I hope she's ok.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

I know a number of people who have cut bipolar parents/relatives out of their lives.

Thank you for your posting, distracts. Although I am a social worker, I really didn't know how close to home serious mental illness was going to hit...even as I worked in the mental health unit of a social service agency, spending my days with schizophrenic and bi-polar clients. I left that job and adopted a seven week-old baby. She was an easy baby and peachy child who presented no problems except some separation anxiety when first going to pre-school at three, then switching to a new school for kindergarten at five.

The school never contacted me to say say that she was talented and gifted or that there was any problem with her, except once to ask if she could be evaluated by a speech pathologist (who didn't feel she needed help). She just went happily to elementary school and did a really good job there. She was fairly quiet, but she played every musical instrument known to man, was in both the school band and orchestra, and did ballet, jazz and tap at various times. (She had a problem with her hips so she could never be a serious ballerina, but that was the reason we encouraged lots of ballet training and she turned out to be an absolutely fabulous tap dancer.) Although she played other musical instruments, she played the cello pretty well, landing in the advanced orchestra in seventh grade. The picture in my icon is of her at age 10.

When she reached sixth grade she started to have problems. She got all A's except for a C+ in an advanced math class. (I swore I would never let a school place her ahead according to where she tested after that year! We hired a tutor and she still had to struggle. Why the heck couldn't she just have taken sixth grade math like everybody else?) She would come in and go straight to her room and do homework for hours. But things weren't right. It turned out that she was giving away money in order to try to get boys to be friends with her. And much later I found out that the reason she was working so hard on her homework was that she was doing it for the boys! They got angry if she made any mistakes (she said)! The next year we moved from Connecticut to Virginia and things continued to go downhill. She took the bus to school and she said kids picked on her on the bus.

To make a long story shorter, after years of not knowing what was wrong and seeing her troubled, depressed, and irritable it finally became clear that she was bi-polar. But this did not happen until after several suicide attempts some very wild, angry behavior on her part.

My best friend's son turned out to be bi-polar. He is her biological son. The maid-of-honor at my wedding has a sister who has been estranged from their family for decades. She is mentally ill, and we believe bi-polar. The mother of one of my daughter's boyfriends was thrown out of her parents' home at 17. She is bi-polar. Bi-polar adolescents are very, very trying...or at least they can be. They are often far more difficult to live with than schizophrenics. I know both populations pretty well. The mania in bi-polar adolescets often manifests itself as irritablilty and aggression. The rage of a bi-polar adolescent who is prone to rage rather than to a simple manic "high" can really be terrifying and alienating.

The problem of having a bi-polar child, like having any severly handicapped child, can put a lot of stress on a marriage, too. I know it did on mine. There is a super book about this called Welcome Home, Jellybean. I will go check the title and come back and edit this posting if I don't have it correctly. I highly recommend this book-although it has nothing to do with bi-polar illness-to anyone who encounters a family dealing with the stress of a family member who has a serious disability. I wish both H and her family all the luck in the world.

Deb/AGBF

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Deb has a good guess. Mental illnesses often start showing themselves around her age. It can be very hard on a family and I have had many patients whose families gave up on them long ago. Another guess could be addiction. Also is common for family to disown/ignore/detach. Personally, I would want to know what happened. Family secrets make me uncomfortable. As a mother I have thought how I would react if my child has mental health/addiction issues. I cannot image ever disowning her for any reason. How painful. As for the misplaced memories, sounds like maybe she is having some memory issues of her own. Sounds like she deliberately cut her daughter out of her life so I am guessing it is subconscious/confusion.

I would want to know what happened, too, but if she cannot talk about it, she may feel defensive or that she's being confronted if questions are brought up. Sounds like her behavior is SO extreme that her response to any inquiries might be unrational.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

The problem of having a bi-polar child, like having any severly handicapped child, can put a lot of stress on a marriage, too. I know it did on mine. There is a super book about this called Welcome Home, Jellybean. I will go check the title and come back and edit this posting if I don't have it correctly. I highly recommend this book-although it has nothing to do with bi-polar illness-to anyone who encounters a family dealing with the stress of a family member who has a serious disability.

I wanted to make sure that everyone had a chance to see the title of this book and to know a little more about it. I first encountered it when I was asked to teach English to middle school children and found it on the required reading list for one of my classes. It can be read by young readers and, if it is, presents them with a lot of food for thought. It is also great for adult readers, however. I urge you to look at the Amazon reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Welcome-Home-Jellybean-Aladdin-Books/product-reviews/0689712138/ref=dp_db_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Deb/AGBF

 

[Snicklefritz]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Deb has a good guess. Mental illnesses often start showing themselves around her age. It can be very hard on a family and I have had many patients whose families gave up on them long ago. Another guess could be addiction. Also is common for family to disown/ignore/detach. Personally, I would want to know what happened. Family secrets make me uncomfortable. As a mother I have thought how I would react if my child has mental health/addiction issues. I cannot image ever disowning her for any reason. How painful. As for the misplaced memories, sounds like maybe she is having some memory issues of her own. Sounds like she deliberately cut her daughter out of her life so I am guessing it is subconscious/confusion.

I would want to know what happened, too, but if she cannot talk about it, she may feel defensive or that she's being confronted if questions are brought up. Sounds like her behavior is SO extreme that her response to any inquiries might be unrational.

Double ditto! Memory is a very pliable thing, and can be fashioned in whatever ways we would like. People develop alternate life stories when they cannot justify or accept what really happened. If you start questioning her version of what happened, it could shake whatever balance she has created for herself in this deeply-rooted situation, which may have an unpredictable result on many different levels.

That said, this is something MIL should talk about with someone whom she absolutely trusts when she is ready- someone who is primarily interested in her well being and not just the details of what happened- and simultaneously a professional - so like a family therapy situation.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Memory is a very pliable thing, and can be fashioned in whatever ways we would like. People develop alternate life stories when they cannot justify or accept what really happened. If you start questioning her version of what happened, it could shake whatever balance she has created for herself in this deeply-rooted situation, which may have an unpredictable result on many different levels.
That said, this is something MIL should talk about with someone whom she absolutely trusts when she is ready- someone who is primarily interested in her well being and not just the details of what happened- and simultaneously a professional - so like a family therapy situation.

Snicklefritz-

I really found your posting above to be very wise. I never advocated that puppmom do anything other than ask her husband, or perhaps ask her mother-in-law "very circumspectly" so as not to disturb the balance to which you allude, about H. Your posting has made me rethink what I wrote, though.

Why should puppmom ask her mother-in-law anything at all about H? It is not her job to disturb the balance of her mother-in-law's mental health and she is not about to bring about a family reunion at this stage of the game! So why would we (why would I?) be asking her to probe her mother-in-law's thoughts in any way?

Your posting has made me think that perhaps if she can get information from her husband or his sister, she should, but that otherwise she just leave her mother-in-law in peace.

Thank you for your thoughtful posting.

Deb/AGBF

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

I think it would need to be one of her children, not DIL. In the very least she should be examined b/c something may be going on organically with her brain since this is out of the ordinary behavior.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Re: Therapists and psych professionals-is there a term for t

Memory is a very pliable thing, and can be fashioned in whatever ways we would like. People develop alternate life stories when they cannot justify or accept what really happened. If you start questioning her version of what happened, it could shake whatever balance she has created for herself in this deeply-rooted situation, which may have an unpredictable result on many different levels.
That said, this is something MIL should talk about with someone whom she absolutely trusts when she is ready- someone who is primarily interested in her well being and not just the details of what happened- and simultaneously a professional - so like a family therapy situation.

Snicklefritz-

I really found your posting above to be very wise. I never advocated that puppmom do anything other than ask her husband, or perhaps ask her mother-in-law "very circumspectly" so as not to disturb the balance to which you allude, about H. Your posting has made me rethink what I wrote, though.

Why should puppmom ask her mother-in-law anything at all about H? It is not her job to disturb the balance of her mother-in-law's mental health and she is not about to bring about a family reunion at this stage of the game! So why would we (why would I?) be asking her to probe her mother-in-law's thoughts in any way?

Your posting has made me think that perhaps if she can get information from her husband or his sister, she should, but that otherwise she just leave her mother-in-law in peace.

Thank you for your thoughtful posting.

Deb/AGBF

Thanks AGBF! I very much appreciate your thoughtful comments to the OP and to myself as well.