shape
carat
color
clarity

The New EVANGELICAL View of Trump

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
6,731
https://www.yahoo.com/news/evangelical-magazine-publishes-scathing-anti-trump-editorial-013004224.html

Excerpts of Monday's editorial after the tape came out. This is a fascinating article:

As conservative religious voters grapple with how to respond to an audio recording of Donald Trump lewdly boasting about groping women, Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of American evangelicalism, released on Monday a blistering critique of the GOP presidential nominee.

The editorial, written by executive editor Andy Crouch, was accompanied by a subtitle that minced no words: “Evangelicals, of all people, should not be silent about Donald Trump’s blatant immorality.”

Noting that the magazine is a nonprofit organization and does not endorse candidates, Crouch nonetheless writes: “Just because we are neutral, however, does not mean we are indifferent. We are especially not indifferent when the Gospel is at stake. The Gospel is of infinitely greater importance than any campaign.”

As for Trump, Crouch says, “There is hardly any public person in America today who has more exemplified the ‘earthly nature’ … that Paul urges the Colossians to shed: ‘sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry’ (3:5). This is an incredibly apt summary of Trump’s life to date.”

“That Trump has been, his whole adult life, an idolater of this sort, and a singularly unrepentant one,”
he continues, “should have been clear to everyone.”

Crouch does not spare Trump’s evangelical supporters, who have proposed a variety of theological justifications for making him their candidate. He is particularly dismissive of the argument put forward by many high-profile conservatives, including Graham’s son, Franklin, that because the Bible includes examples of God using flawed men to accomplish His will, evangelicals shouldn’t be concerned about Trump’s personal morality.

And he calls out the long-standing conservative evangelical reasoning behind backing Republican candidates simply out of concern over the makeup of the U.S. Supreme Court.

“There is a point at which strategy becomes its own form of idolatry — an attempt to manipulate the levers of history in favor of the causes we support,” writes Crouch. “Strategy becomes idolatry, for ancient Israel and for us today, when we make alliances with those who seem to offer strength — the chariots of Egypt, the vassal kings of Rome — at the expense of our dependence on God who judges all nations, and in defiance of God’s manifest concern for the stranger, the widow, the orphan, and the oppressed.”

“He has given no evidence of humility or dependence on others, let alone on God his Maker and Judge. He wantonly celebrates strongmen and takes every opportunity to humiliate and demean the vulnerable. He shows no curiosity or capacity to learn.”

“He is,” Crouch concludes, “the very embodiment of what the Bible calls a fool.”


Yup. Regardless of your religious bent, it's nice to see so many more coming around to reality.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,326
Trump's demeanor should not be a surprise to anyone. The tape should not be a shock. Hearing the words spoken have had an effect on everyone. He is a pig but he always has been.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
Her secret tapes and his potty mouth is just taking away from the issues.

I am hoping that they will stay away from those two topics for the last debate and get on to other important matters, like improving the economy, fixing health care and how they will keep our country safe.
 

sstephensid

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
253
ruby59|1476214645|4085758 said:
Her secret tapes and his potty mouth is just taking away from the issues.

I am hoping that they will stay away from those two topics for the last debate and get on to other important matters, like improving the economy, fixing health care and how they will keep our country safe.


I agree with your last statement. I would love to hear how knowledgeable both candidates are about issues. How we can expect the United States to improve (or decline 8) )if they were elected. But I am curious if you meant his secret tapes - if you meant hers, what tapes does she have? I haven't seen any yet.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
I do not care about the ones where he talks like a pig or the ones that she deleted.

Although does she really want open borders or a one payer system like Canada. Because that would concern me.

But I am more interested in how is she going to improve the economy so my husband does not have to die at his desk and can some day retire. I have multiple health conditions. And that is why my husband can not retire because he would have to get my insurance on the exchange. And Obama Care is a nightmare from what my friends are telling me.

I want to know how we are going to be kept safe because right now I am afraid to go to places where there are large gatherings. I live near Boston but avoid it. My family wants to go to New York City for the holidays but is it safe?

And I want to know if when my youngest two graduate will they have to work in another state and commute long hours like my son has to because there are no jobs in mine?
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
6,731
ruby59 said:
I do not care about the ones where he talks like a pig or the ones that she deleted.

Although does she really want open borders or a one payer system like Canada. Because that would concern me.

But I am more interested in how is she going to improve the economy so my husband does not have to die at his desk and can some day retire. I have multiple health conditions. And that is why my husband can not retire because he would have to get my insurance on the exchange. And Obama Care is a nightmare from what my friends are telling me.

I want to know how we are going to be kept safe because right now I am afraid to go to places where there are large gatherings. I live near Boston but avoid it. My family wants to go to New York City for the holidays but is it safe?

And I want to know if when my youngest two graduate will they have to work in another state and commute long hours like my son has to because there are no jobs in mine?

My DH, DD and I get our insurance from the exchange. And it's fine. We have had no problems or issues. We go to any doctor we want, there is no referral needed to go any specialist we need, it seems the same as our old insurance, which was also Blue Cross. DH has diabetes, so when we closed our business, we moved over to exchange insurance.

I think some people think it's bad because they've never purchased private insurance before. We have because we were self-employed for years, and had to buy insurance for ourselves and our many employees (yes, a successful job creator buying Obamacare insurance). The private deductibles were always high, usually $5000 per individual, $10,000-$20,000 per family. Free checkups, cheaper office visits with a small copay, reduced price lab work, etc. Our premium for DH, me and DD was $1200 per month. I get all the same coverage with this new version. The private Blue Cross is the same as Obamacare Blue Cross, it's just cheaper, about half. Compared to working for a big company who pays for your insurance (like we did for our employees) it is much different. But as someone who has actually shopped and paid for insurance for 30+ years, this is a pretty good deal. I'm mystified why anyone would think it was a nightmare. :confused:

Run the numbers. If your DH retires, and your income falls below the threshold, you could get a subsidy that reduces your insurance cost to $400 a month. It might make financial sense for you. BTW, even if the economy becomes fantastic, the days of cheap insurance are over, corporations have seen to that.

Here's what I thought when I was first considering it: Isn't it about time the government did something for you?

If you have more questions about it, I'd be happy to answer them, just post.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
iLander|1476230039|4085916 said:
ruby59 said:
I do not care about the ones where he talks like a pig or the ones that she deleted.

Although does she really want open borders or a one payer system like Canada. Because that would concern me.

But I am more interested in how is she going to improve the economy so my husband does not have to die at his desk and can some day retire. I have multiple health conditions. And that is why my husband can not retire because he would have to get my insurance on the exchange. And Obama Care is a nightmare from what my friends are telling me.

I want to know how we are going to be kept safe because right now I am afraid to go to places where there are large gatherings. I live near Boston but avoid it. My family wants to go to New York City for the holidays but is it safe?

And I want to know if when my youngest two graduate will they have to work in another state and commute long hours like my son has to because there are no jobs in mine?

My DH, DD and I get our insurance from the exchange. And it's fine. We have had no problems or issues. We go to any doctor we want, there is no referral needed to go any specialist we need, it seems the same as our old insurance, which was also Blue Cross. DH has diabetes, so when we closed our business, we moved over to exchange insurance.

I think some people think it's bad because they've never purchased private insurance before. We have because we were self-employed for years, and had to buy insurance for ourselves and our many employees (yes, a successful job creator buying Obamacare insurance). The private deductibles were always high, usually $5000 per individual, $10,000-$20,000 per family. Free checkups, cheaper office visits with a small copay, reduced price lab work, etc. Our premium for DH, me and DD was $1200 per month. I get all the same coverage with this new version. The private Blue Cross is the same as Obamacare Blue Cross, it's just cheaper, about half. Compared to working for a big company who pays for your insurance (like we did for our employees) it is much different. But as someone who has actually shopped and paid for insurance for 30+ years, this is a pretty good deal. I'm mystified why anyone would think it was a nightmare. :confused:

Run the numbers. If your DH retires, and your income falls below the threshold, you could get a subsidy that reduces your insurance cost to $400 a month. It might make financial sense for you. BTW, even if the economy becomes fantastic, the days of cheap insurance are over, corporations have seen to that.

Here's what I thought when I was first considering it: Isn't it about time the government did something for you?

If you have more questions about it, I'd be happy to answer them, just post.


My husband and I have been working since we were 15 - two jobs each, for most of our life. So while we are not extremely rich, we are comfortable enough that we do not need government help beyond what we are entitled to based on our work histories.

In talking to my friends who do have Obama Care, the same theme holds - Less coverage with very high deductibles at 2 to 3 times the cost. As with everything in my life, I do not like the idea of paying more for less.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
The private deductibles were always high, usually $5000 per individual, $10,000-$20,000 per family
_____________________________________________________

I just asked my husband, and the deductible we have now is only $1,500.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
31,763
redwood66|1476213925|4085748 said:
Trump's demeanor should not be a surprise to anyone. The tape should not be a shock. Hearing the words spoken have had an effect on everyone. He is a pig but he always has been.

No. what Trump does is not a surprise, or a shock.
Why do you and mom"happy" keep bringing that up.
It's like you two think that only what is a surprising or shocking can be objected to. :confused:
IOW if someone kills enough people, killing the next is no like biggie, because "Well ... like ... you know ... he killed all those others."

That a single American is STILL voting for him is THE biggest surprise, shock, story and mystery of all time.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,326
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?

Oh I see you edited and took arguing out.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
31,763
redwood66|1476232184|4085943 said:
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?


Yes, they very from Gandhi to Hitler.

Relax yourself.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,326
kenny|1476232354|4085945 said:
redwood66|1476232184|4085943 said:
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?


Yes, they very from Gandhi to Hitler.

Relax yourself.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
kenny|1476231716|4085941 said:
redwood66|1476213925|4085748 said:
Trump's demeanor should not be a surprise to anyone. The tape should not be a shock. Hearing the words spoken have had an effect on everyone. He is a pig but he always has been.

No. what Trump does is not a surprise, or a shock.
Why do you and mom"happy" keep bringing that up.
It's like you two think that only what is a surprising or shocking can be objected to. :confused:
IOW if someone kills enough people, killing the next is no like biggie, because "Well ... like ... you know ... he killed all those others."

That a single American is STILL voting for him is THE biggest surprise, shock, story and mystery of all time.



I can think of a couple reasons -

Like- minded people

And those that are so tired of the status quo they are willing to take a chance rather than have to live through 4 or more 8 years of it.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
31,763
redwood66|1476232429|4085947 said:
kenny|1476232354|4085945 said:
redwood66|1476232184|4085943 said:
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?


Yes, they very from Gandhi to Hitler.

Relax yourself.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,326
kenny|1476233685|4085955 said:
redwood66|1476232429|4085947 said:
kenny|1476232354|4085945 said:
redwood66|1476232184|4085943 said:
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?


Yes, they very from Gandhi to Hitler.

Relax yourself.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Touche.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
31,763
redwood66|1476234257|4085958 said:
kenny|1476233685|4085955 said:
redwood66|1476232429|4085947 said:
kenny|1476232354|4085945 said:
redwood66|1476232184|4085943 said:
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?


Yes, they very from Gandhi to Hitler.

Relax yourself.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Touche.

So ... Peace? ... maybe for a day, or two? ;-)
 

redwood66

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
7,326
kenny|1476234846|4085960 said:
redwood66|1476234257|4085958 said:
kenny|1476233685|4085955 said:
redwood66|1476232429|4085947 said:
kenny|1476232354|4085945 said:
redwood66|1476232184|4085943 said:
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?


Yes, they very from Gandhi to Hitler.

Relax yourself.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Touche.

So ... Peace? ... maybe for a day, or two? ;-)

Of course peace. I still love you. :D

I worry about your heart - with you being so old and everything. You shouldn't get so worked up. :lol:
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
31,763
redwood66|1476235191|4085961 said:
kenny|1476234846|4085960 said:
redwood66|1476234257|4085958 said:
kenny|1476233685|4085955 said:
redwood66|1476232429|4085947 said:
kenny|1476232354|4085945 said:
redwood66|1476232184|4085943 said:
People vary kenny, you should know that. You really need to relax.

I am not sure I was arguing at any point? Why because it is me and momhappy it has to be arguing?


Yes, they very from Gandhi to Hitler.

Relax yourself.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.

I am relaxed. You just don't like my POV. Ok.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Touche.

So ... Peace? ... maybe for a day, or two? ;-)

Of course peace. I still love you. :D

I worry about your heart - with you being so old and everything. You shouldn't get so worked up. :lol:

I'd rather die for a good cause than while just having sex.
Oh wait ... sex is a great cause. :lol:
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
6,731
I'm pretty sure everyone missed the point of my OP. :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

The evangelical base is what drives the Republican party. They are big donors. They are hard core Republicans. They are there for every Republican, regardless. They have been running politics for the last 10 years.

They viewed Trump as "God using flawed men to accomplish His will".

But Donny managed to turn even them.


And that is why all the Republicans ran for the hills. Because they were losing their big donor base.

So, yeah, this is a big indicator before election day. I suspect there will be unchecked boxes on their ballots, where previously there would have been checks next to Trump.
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
6,731
ruby59|1476231010|4085925 said:
My husband and I have been working since we were 15 - two jobs each, for most of our life. So while we are not extremely rich, we are comfortable enough that we do not need government help beyond what we are entitled to based on our work histories.

In talking to my friends who do have Obama Care, the same theme holds - Less coverage with very high deductibles at 2 to 3 times the cost. As with everything in my life, I do not like the idea of paying more for less.

You're the one who said you wanted your DH to retire. I was trying to help. Silly me.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
3,030
Hi,

I think this POV is only a portion of the Republican Party and it is this that is causing the big rift in the party. Some donors, it is said, are asking Trump for a return of their donation. Fat chance they will get that back.

Gary Bauer, who is head of some Family Values Org, that also represents evangelicals was on TV last night supporting Trump even when the show host asked him to explain how he can claim to be a Christian supporting Trump. His answer was to accuse Al Gore of some sex scandal of such minor consequence that I don't recall it at all. It was unreal. It was bizarre. But, my point is that a split in the party is what you have here. I am happy that someone in Christiandom(SP) is declaring they won't support him.

Annette
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
iLander|1476286755|4086143 said:
ruby59|1476231010|4085925 said:
My husband and I have been working since we were 15 - two jobs each, for most of our life. So while we are not extremely rich, we are comfortable enough that we do not need government help beyond what we are entitled to based on our work histories.

In talking to my friends who do have Obama Care, the same theme holds - Less coverage with very high deductibles at 2 to 3 times the cost. As with everything in my life, I do not like the idea of paying more for less.

You're the one who said you wanted your DH to retire. I was trying to help. Silly me.

I apologize for my response. You were trying to help and I was rude.

And I do thank you.

Problem with us is my husband is older than me by 7 years. And I have multiple health problems including diabetes so I like my plan with the $1,500 deductible.

The higher deductibles would be a burden. They would be doable, and we would not qualify for help, but it would leave us less money to help our children or do the extras in life that we look forward to.

You were self employed so they are more common for you. We always got insurance through my husband's job, so the higher deductibles were an eye opener.
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top