Simple question...

[monarch64]

It sounds like a simplified dissolution (that''s what it''s called in my state) with no attorneys might work for you, Nytemist, since it seems that the two of you don''t argue over what belongs to whom, etc. If you can save up rent money first and then let him know your thoughts and agree to the simplified dissolution then you''ll probably get through it just fine. I''m glad to hear that you are somewhat at peace...I''ve followed your posts here and there over the years and in this thread you come across as calmer and more at ease with things. Obviously I don''t encourage divorce, but when you know it''s over it is probably over and one is better off not going crazy over it, imo. I wish you the best, and if there is anything I can do to help or questions I can answer here please just ask.

 

[oddoneout]

Date: 5/5/2010 6:01:00 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
nytemist, you have done everything you can. You went to counseling, you let him have his space, you''ve tried to speak with him, you have been very patient. It sounds like it''s been a long time since you''ve even been sad about it--all evidence that leaving is the best thing for you to do is put this in your past. We are all here for you!

I agree with this. I am sorry you''re going through a divorce but it does sound like it is for the best.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 5/6/2010 9:57:23 AM
Author: nytemist
I agree with you Monarch. I think sometimes people will drag it out when there is a lot of moeny invovled, ot if someone made all their money after marriage and the orther was a stay at home parent or something.


I can honestly say the only thing we ever combine money for is when we go grocery shopping or to a restaurant. Even if one of us uses a card, the other will give cash to them. I'm leaving with what I brought when I moved in or bought while I was there since husband has no use for them. Like candle holders, wine glasses, sheets- those are things he really does not care about, so he won't miss them. He totally is not the type to want to keep such things just to be spiteful. Well, the bed would be an issue. The one he had when I moved in was crap and after two years I had to get a new one. He didn't care about it, so to make myself happy I got a really nice platform bed with a memory foam mattress (not Tempurpedic way too much) He said he would give me half for it, but I told him don't bother.


Starset, unfortunately I don't know if I will ever make it to NYC, unless I win the lottery.

Just moving to somewhere T accessible that I can afford would be a great thing.


I've been reading a lot of online forums about separations/divorce when I should be working. I feel odd since most people posting are so angry or there has been cheating or abuse. I don't even feel angry. I mean I have felt resentful for quiet a while, but even that went away.

I can absolutely get just wanting to walk away even if you take less than what you may legally be able to have. When I did separate from my common-law spouse, I opted to take a LOT less than legally I could have fought for (including equity in the home). Instead we just agreed to a very, very, small settlement amount from it just to get me started again (far below what legally I could have argued for and below what I had contributed) as I just wanted to walk away free and clear from it all. I was eager to start fresh, and did not even bother taking most of my personal belongings with me.

However, I still had a separation agreement looked over by a lawyer. And I still made sure I made that decision knowing exactly what I was choosing by making that decision. As, even if we had really split our finances (and never combined them really) marriage and divorce laws recognize more than monetary contributions around here. Only one of us had our name on our house for example, but the laws here don't care about that if you are common-law or married. That one person would never be able to sell it without a waiver from the other partner for example.

Look, I know sometimes lawyers get a bad name but as a lawyer I have MANY people come in to see me to do what is considered an amicable divorces. I never, ever "encourage" them to go for more if they do not want that. Ever. All I do is review with them what their needs and wants are, what they are comfortable with, what they may be able to claim, and discuss with them the consequences of what actions they are making. It is my responsibility as a lawyer to review with my clients the law and provide legal advice...however it is NOT up to me to actually make the decisions for them. All I do is provide them the information upon which to make a well-grounded decision that works for them, and then I help them with that decision. Sometimes it is a decision that I would not have personally chosen, but, that is not up to me.

Honestly, I hate going to court for family law stuff (very few lawyers do), and the approach here is a much more collaborative one. I would rather have the client keep as much money in THEIR pocket and come to a satisfactory solution between them then turn out to be a long-drawn out, angry and conflicted file and send me angry letters and calls about how much things are costing them as litigation is drawn out. There ARE lawyers out there who will nickel and dime their clients and delay the process and never get anywhere...but not everyone does that.

I also agree with some others that people...once they actually get served with papers....can really change. While you have had some time to adjust to the idea of divorce...he has probably not. And depending on his own personal relationship and views of divorce - even if there is *nothing* between you as a couple anymore, for some the impact of divorce carries with it a personally-inflicted stigma or a weight they never thought they would feel until they had to confront it. And then it is not just about the money....or the belongings...but as it is the only way some of these people feel they can communicate their hurt or anger it DOES become about that. I guess what I am saying is it is amicable so far for you, and the relationship so far is amicable, but he does not yet know that you are considering filing for divorce. And things may not be so amicable then even if YOU want them to be.

I obviously cannot provide you with legal advice in any shape or form. What I can do is encourage you to at least consult with someone who can. And then you can at least make a well-grounded decision on how to proceed. As someone else pointed out - often an initial consult may be free. You do NOT have to retain anyone who you do not feel comfortable with, or if you decide you want to go it alone.

 

[monarch64]

I''m not saying that you should just download the forms, sign them, file them, etc. without having anyone look over what you sign, btw. I was fortunate to have a very good friend offer his assistance with my paperwork and once he approved it I took said paperwork to the courthouse and filed. However, if you and he are able to agree upon going through with the divorce itself and there is really no argument over belongings, I still stand by my opinion that bringing in attorneys is not necessary. Then again, I''m not one to be swayed in life by marketing, advertising, scams and scare tactics.

 

[treefrog]

I''m with Monarch on this.

When my ex and I went through this, we individually did the "free consultation" thing with lawyers. The guy I spoke with told me that in order to protect myself, I had to lock down joint accounts and do all kinds of crazy stuff that I knew would just infuriate her. There was no way I was going down the road he suggested. I left his office actually feeling dirty. Years ago, I worked with a co-worker and overheard many conversations he had with his ex during his divorce process. It was ugly - lots of yelling. I''m not that kind of a guy. I felt we should be able to work through it together. The two of us went to meet with another lawyer. He called in an assistant to listen to us and they said in all their years, they never had a couple come in together to discuss a divorce. They would not represent us both. She ultimately picked another lawyer to do the paperwork stuff. The ex and I drafted up a separation agreement on our own with regards to splitting assets. I did not retain a lawyer. I could have but I was certain the lawyers would fight hard for each of us to get the best deal. It just wasn''t worth it to me. I am certain I sacrificed a bit in the separation agreement and I know I could have come out ahead of where I did. I was not willing to put either of us through the lawyer battle mess. I have more dignity than that. It''s hard enough to go through the process as it is.

My ex got re-married and found out that her husband had a profile on some kind of dating site. He was looking for "no strings attached" romps while on business travel. The guy actually tracked me down by calling every fire station in the area. At first, I thought he was looking for compassion but he was really looking for dirt on her and he tried to get me to say bad stuff about her. I would not. I stopped taking his phone calls. They''ve been going through the divorce process for 2+ years now. A guy at my fire station was in the same boat... bitter and a multi-year legal battle.

Looking back, I wouldn''t change a thing. A year after we filed the separation agreement, we sat at a table with her lawyer and a judge in her lawyer''s office. They confirmed the terms of OUR divorce/separation agreement had been met, and we signed the paperwork. No lawyer battles, relatively decent financial, house, and property terms, retained dignity.

nytemist, I am so sorry you have to go through this and I wish you the best in getting through it. We''re here for you if you need us.

Treefrog

 

[nytemist]

Monarch and Raikai, I completely see what you both are saying. I''m certainly not going to go into it naively, thinking ''sign on the dotted line and it''s done'' kind of thing. I have to be prepared to protect myself just in case, but want to try and keep it to a minimum if at all. Hope I''m making sense. But I thank you so much for the insight. It''s good to see that it doesn''t have to be the long, drawn out nightmare that sometimes hear about.

I''ve never actually said the word divorce to him, but during some conversation quite a while ago, when I said soemthing along the lines of "if we are together then''. He genuinely seemed surprised. Maybe if actually having papers in front of him would snap him out of it. Who knows. He''s so far away emotionally I think if I were to tell him I''m done and present papers, he would give the same reaction to nearly everything else important I''ve mentioned: a shrug of his shoulders.

Treefrog, that''s how I feel. I do not want antagonize him, get into arguments or anything remotely like that. We are adults and can have a calm conversation about things without it turning into a 14 year old level screaming match or something. My husband is a nice guy, he wouldn''t turn spiteful or threaten to tie things up in court or crazyness like that. I''ve known a couple of people who have had really nasty splits also. Worse that they seemed to enjoy using their kids as toys in the fighting. We should be able to discuss things, neither of us are the type to fight each other on this. I know his attitude more than likely will change once I tell him, but he won''t go off the deep end. Honestly I think he''ll feel relieved there is an end in sight because he really doesn''t want to be married.

All of you are great and I''m so thankful for the advice and lending a virtual ear.

 

[FrekeChild]

Nytemist, I''ve been following this thread, and there are a couple things I want to hit upon. As my dad (a divorce attorney) says, "With consultations, you get what you pay for." His firm charges for a consultation. They have the potential client describe their situation, hear their side of things, find out what they want (divorce, separation, custody, assets, just figuring out what their options are) and give the potential client their opinion on what the next best step is. In my opinion, you should pay for a consultation just to see what they say.

Moving on to my next piece of advice, I would search Martindale Hubbell for attorneys in your area, and I would select an attorney that is AV rated. That is a rating given by peers about ethical and other standards. They are the "best of the best" and you can''t actually get that rating without many years of practice.

My $0.02.

 

[onedrop]

Nytemist: I remember you and I am sad to learn that things haven''t gotten any better for you. Hopefully you will find some peace of mind whatever you decide to do. I do know of people that have not used a lawyer during a divorce, and they were in much the same situation as you, i.e, no kids, no property together, other joint ventures, etc. Only you can make the decision to retain an attorney, and doing so doesn''t make the divorce less amicable. It may even make things easier for you. Your bases will be covered and you won''t have to deal with your ex (should it come to that) to work any details.

Here''s to a brighter future for you!

 

[nytemist]

Thank you FrekeChild for the list. I think I''ve chosen one to go with in case I need to.

Not an easy weekend. It seems he knew that I was going to say something because he went out of his way to super sweet to me. We had gone out to eat and he said that he has known how upset I''ve been for a while, but just didn''t know how to approach me about it. He said he felt like I completely shut myself off. I said I had. I said that the last couple of therapist''s appointments were the last straw for me. He asked what I meant and I said I don''t really think there is a way back. I then said I wasn''t going to talk anymore about it in the restaurant. Normally to avoid a tough conversation, he will go into the bedroom and find a movie to watch or start playing guitar or something. Once we got home I simply told him that I don''t feel we have much of a future. I had put so much into trying get any feeling or opinions out of you and nearly every talk has been met with ''I don''t know''. I said I can continue with being roommates until I''m able to leave, as we''ve been in that situation for about two years. He was in total shock, like he really had no idea that this so-called marriage was this bad. He looks at me and says ''are you serious?'' He went into the other room and ever since he''s been acting like all is normal, as in this morning talking about some plans to hang out at his sister''s house on Saturday.

I know it''s the right thing for me, since I could talk to hiim without being mad or emotional anymore.

 

[curlygirl]

nytemist, I have no advice to offer but like many of the the others, I remember your story well and I''m sorry things didn''t work out. You''ve done your best and you deserve to have a better life where you can be happy and be yourself. I wish you all the best.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 5/11/2010 9:28:25 AM
Author: nytemist
He was in total shock, like he really had no idea that this so-called marriage was this bad. He looks at me and says ''are you serious?'' He went into the other room and ever since he''s been acting like all is normal, as in this morning talking about some plans to hang out at his sister''s house on Saturday.


I know it''s the right thing for me, since I could talk to hiim without being mad or emotional anymore.

I don''t find his reaction surprising, or any different from the other times when he seemed to be unaware of your feelings (despite them coming out in the therapist''s office, and so on).

It is kind of sad that even *he* has such low expectations for himself in/with a relationship (note I am referring to the living as roommates, not communicating, etc...not to you!) to not think there is any problem.

I suspect he is also going to sort of pretend everything IS normal. Reading your old threads, it has worked for him in the past to just carry on as normal after you share things like this with him. You have stuck it out with him for years, with this sort of pattern, so I imagine for him he is going to stick to those patterns.

I hope this time is different, and you don''t settle back into carrying on as normal with him.

Good luck.

 

[nytemist]

I''ve talked to a legal advisor and thought things over for a couple of days. Yesterday I let husband know. Again he acted surprised and then he realized I was serious. Of course he said he didn''t want things to end and asked why was I doing this. I said because I''m living with someone who doesn''t seem to notice that I''m here most of the time, why would I want to stay? He promised again that he would try to do better with talking and connecting. I said you have said that to me countless times only to go back to tuning me out. What makes this time any different? He couldn''t answer.

I''m still feeling ok. I''m hoping I can have this whole situation dealt with and over by the end of the year.

Thank you again everyone.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I support you in your choice and I admire your courage... still I find it sad for both of you. He''s not going to realize what he lost until you''re gone. It''s like a horrible catch 22. If you stay, or even if you return... you''re right back where you are. I''m so sorry you''re going through this.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 5/19/2010 8:13:01 AM
Author: nytemist
I've talked to a legal advisor and thought things over for a couple of days. Yesterday I let husband know. Again he acted surprised and then he realized I was serious. Of course he said he didn't want things to end and asked why was I doing this. I said because I'm living with someone who doesn't seem to notice that I'm here most of the time, why would I want to stay? He promised again that he would try to do better with talking and connecting. I said you have said that to me countless times only to go back to tuning me out. What makes this time any different? He couldn't answer.

I'm still feeling ok. I'm hoping I can have this whole situation dealt with and over by the end of the year.

Thank you again everyone.

If only it were that easy.

The trouble is, he can't. He cannot be that person; he can only be himself. He can only be who he actually IS, and who he is doesn't align with what you want and need in a partner.

It's been like this as far back as I can remember you posting, even long before your engagement. The only thing that induces action from him is threat of imminent loss of your relationship, and you deserve much more than that. I'm sad for you that it's taken travelling down this very difficult path to reach acceptance that he doesn't have it in him to be the partner you need and want.

I'm sorry for the struggle this has been for you, and I hope you do find peace in taking the reins to make a better choice for you.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Oh, I''m so sorry...and so proud of you. Good luck!!

 

[nytemist]

The therapist said nearly the same thing- that it seem he isn''t able to think that way. That possibly he was listening to to the things that i would like to do in life and he tried to make himself believe he wanted the same. I said to her that he was way better at talking about our futre and letting me know how he felt about things before we got married, but completly fell off the table after. Makes me feel even more like a moron for believiing it all in the first place, he talked a great game and I fell for it. The worst will be having to break it to his family. I love his family. It''s weird, he has an awesome example of what a great marriage looks like. His parents are in their 60s, retired English professors and still act like silly, lovy-dovey teenagers. They are a riot.