Psycho in the Family

[Lady_Disdain]

The fact that she didn't address your concern tells me quite clearly that, yes, the abuse is still going on. If everything were fine, it would be much easier for her to say"yes, we went to therapy and everything is just great between us". Instead she is telling you everything that looks good (travelling to Italy and her lovely everyday life). In between the lines, she is not telling you that his behaviour is good.

Leaving an abusing spouse isn't just about having money and somewhere to go. Usually, the victim has already internalized what a worthless person she is and how she could never be alone/her life alone would be even worse for whatever reason or how the children would suffer terribly in a divorce, etc. Things that are simple to us, viewing from outside, can feel overwhelming.

The best comparison I've heard about this is that no one would tell a depressed person to just snap out of it* and be happy. Abuse can be very similar.

*or no one should, but that is another thread.

 

[Jambalaya]

I told her that her husband was awful, had always been awful, would never change and that she should leave. Her brother told her the same thing. So yes, absolutely I judged the situation. Ten years of non-judgmental support had achieved precisely nothing and the abuse was getting worse.

I didn't expect my inquiry to be ignored completely, and considering we have always been close about this issue, and she has always been happy to receive support from me, I don't think expecting an acknowledgement to a kind inquiry was unrealistic. And for all I know, she was wanting to talk but didn't want to burden me again. You don't know what someone's thinking unless you communicate. So I asked if things were improving, and the rest of the email was about other things entirely. I don't think any aspect of my behavior was unreasonable.

I left it for three months and then gently showed I hadn't forgotten about her in her predicament, and that's fine. I don't mind if she wants to talk or not, either way. But I don't like rudeness. Especially from someone who's happy to take, take, take when things are bad in her own life. I've been OK with that because she's unhappy, but even I have my limits and she really needed to acknowledge that kind inquiry. I don't want the earth - just "I don't want to talk about it but thanks for asking" or "Things are OK." I've been very sympathetic to her for a long time and that's fine but I'm not a doormat. I have had horrendous times in my life and I haven't used that as an excuse to be rude to family who care. And I doubt that things are so awful she can't bear to speak - they've just had a lovely vacay in Italy and she was talking about being busy at work and doing a charity walk with her daughter. I can put up with a lot, but I don't like being used for sympathy in the bad times and ignored during the good times.

 

[Jambalaya]

The fact that she didn't address your concern tells me quite clearly that, yes, the abuse is still going on. If everything were fine, it would be much easier for her to say"yes, we went to therapy and everything is just great between us". Instead she is telling you everything that looks good (travelling to Italy and her lovely everyday life). In between the lines, she is not telling you that his behaviour is good.

Leaving an abusing spouse isn't just about having money and somewhere to go. Usually, the victim has already internalized what a worthless person she is and how she could never be alone/her life alone would be even worse for whatever reason or how the children would suffer terribly in a divorce, etc. Things that are simple to us, viewing from outside, can feel overwhelming.

The best comparison I've heard about this is that no one would tell a depressed person to just snap out of it* and be happy. Abuse can be very similar.

*or no one should, but that is another thread.

I've only just seen this, Lady Disdain. Thank you.

Here's the crux: I don't believe that things are so awful that she has to ignore my inquiry. I know her and I know when she sounds like everything's on an even keel. Also, the cycles of abuse in her relationship are long. She can go a full year with nothing happening - which is why I have received her SOS messages only in July for the last three summers.

She is fine right now and doesn't need me, and she is just being rude.

 

[House Cat]

J,

This isn't about manners. This is about a woman who lives with a really abusive man, AND she has her children in this environment. Things may be calm at the moment, but that doesn't mean that she is ok. She is ALWAYS in survival mode in this kind of environment. When a person is in survival mode, their social graces aren't going to be at their best.

To be realistic, she shouldn't have expectations of any kind put on her. You really DON'T know what her life is like. Ask yourself this question, do you really need these good manners from her right now? What impact is this having on you at this moment? Does she need this negativity ever?

Secondly, she isn't in your debt because you have given her advice or caring. No one is ever in another person's debt for this reason. There is no obligation for emotional exchange. If I come to you and ask for advice and you give me that advice, I am not obligated in any way to forever reveal the details of my life to you. It is not bad manners for me to keep the details of my life private at some point in my life and share them at others. It is my full discretion as to whether or not I share my life's details and when I want to share them.

It is also your discretion as to whether or not to give support, advice, and caring but remember if you choose to do these things, you do them because you WANT to, not because you expect anything out of the person in the future. That is baiting and trapping a person and that is not fair to both of you. You will find that behavior hurts you most.

Maybe when it comes to this family member, you can practice empathy and compassion. Lift all expectations from her and just BE THERE for her, if you want to be involved. Remember, you are the one who emailed her. Maybe she just wasn't ready to talk. Maybe she was still full of shame..who knows why she didn't answer the question, but I am certain that she meant you no harm.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thank you for your long response, House Cat. I appreciate it. The situation has gone on for a long time and we are all wearing thin from it. I am very gentle when I speak to her or email her (thank God I have this place to vent to!) but her brother is beyond it. In the summer she said he was all like, "Why haven't you divorced him yet!" About her ignoring my inquiry, I guess I'm just old-fashioned but I think manners cost nothing. I agree that she didn't mean to hurt me, but I think she's embarrassed. She has an incident with him once a year and opens up and then is embarrassed that I know so much. I think she vents to me because I'm family and by keeping it in the family, she keeps her social circle from knowing what's going on, which I totally understand. But it's not like I have endless reserves of rock-solid confidence myself - I mean, while I don't have huge problems in those areas, I'm only human and not immune to insults - so when she comes to me in the bad times and then ignores a gentle, simple inquiry about her wellbeing in the good times, it makes me feel as if she doesn't value me. I'm OK for a crisis, but that's all, you know? While I'm sure that's not true, that's how having my concern totally ignored makes me feel.

Ah, well. I'm sure it will all straighten itself out in the end. She was close to leaving earlier this summer and said she felt like she would indeed leave, but in her own time. Hope that comes sooner rather than later! I thought it was better to leave her alone after the episode earlier this summer, but then felt bad about not asking her how she was. I thought she might think I've forgotten about her and don't care. What I've learned from this is that it's better not to ask, so I don't think I'll do that again. At least I know from her non-response, that it's OK to just leave it and not to ask. I've been through some hard times and no-one has asked after our wellbeing, and it didn't make me feel good. My sister was dying for 14 months and during that time nobody I knew, both family and friends, ever mentioned it, brought it up, asked how we were doing, nothing. I didn't want my cousin to feel like that, as if nobody cared.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

[quote="Jambalaya|1443478460|3932908"I didn't want my cousin to feel like that, as if nobody cared.[/quote]

And that makes you a good and caring person.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, that a sweet thing to say. I do my best when she reaches out in distress but I'm not a trained counselor. The situation has gone on for longer than I thought it would - I thought they'd either get divorced or she'd get professional help for them as a couple and wouldn't put up with him as he is. She was always a cool, independent girl, not emotional at all, tall and imposing at almost six feet, very much her own person and in control of herself, and financially independent. I really thought she'd make short work of someone like him. I think you never can tell though - I've had other friends who weren't apparently assertive and have then dealt with a challenging person in their lives with great ease. I find myself surprised that her situation is apparently going to run and run and run on the same - it's like Groundhog Day. Non-judgmental support, holding back what I really think, didn't help, telling her what I do think didn't help, her brother ready and waiting to pay the lawyer didn't help, everyone telling her he's bad news and to get out didn't help - nothing anybody says or does makes a difference. He just has to have one discussion with her where he promises he'll change, and she goes from "I'm divorcing him" to "We just need to communicate more." I mean, of course she wants to keep her family intact - who wouldn't want that? - but I think she picked the wrong guy for a workable happy family.

And it's because I'm not a trained counselor that I find it frustrating. I thought I should follow up after a few months, too, but I guess that was the wrong thing to do since she didn't reply.

I think at her next SOS, I'll just listen to her. I won't make suggestions or tell her what I think, as I've already done that. I'll just say how awful it is and I'm sorry to hear that. After all, it's not as if anything makes a difference anyway, and also at least now I know she doesn't want me to ask how things are in the meantime.

The whole situation is

I thank everybody for their support.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I *am* a trained counselor. My job is to help guide people and support them, not tell them what to do. Trust me there are times I want to shake my patient's and help them see clearly. However, I believe in the stages of change.http://psychcentral.com/lib/stages-of-change/ It is painful to see people suffering but unfortunately that is part of her journey. She doesn't need anyone to remind her of that. That's what I would do for a family member. If you want her in your life, this is who she is and where she is.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, Tacori, that is most helpful. You're right, the journey from inside this marriage to safe ground outside it is a journey she has to make, and unfortunately it seems he's going to be around for quite some time yet. His being in her life has already affected our relationship - I refused to have them come and stay because he is so awful on a minute-by-minute basis that I just couldn't bear to go through it, and they wanted to come for two weeks. He's really weird - he'll kind of get up in your face, and doesn't seem to care at all how he comes across to others. It's also a very depressing situation, what with the kids and everything.

We are definitely not as close now as we were before she married him, but I need to protect myself from him. I've got enough problems of my own to deal with, without adding him to the pile. It's sad but I think she and I will continue to be more distant than we would have been otherwise, except when she sends out an SOS. She might not reach out to me anymore though, because I told her the truth. Even if we can never be close again unless she divorces him, I don't regret telling her what I thought because it was time I stopped enabling her with regards to this marriage. I had reached a point where I was totally unable to pretend any longer that I did not hate him and that I thought there was any hope for this dreadful relationship. Now we are less close than ever, but I have not regretted at long last speaking the truth.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Setting boundaries is important. Good for you. Just remember not to take her decisions personally. I really hope she finds a way out sooner than later.

 

[packrat]

Maybe she'll wise up. I hope so. My relative finally did, tho nothing has been filed or signed or finalized yet, it's been started. His awakening just happened randomly, not during a bad time, more like one of those reflecting times when you're laying there trying to sleep or you're driving and you look over at the person and think I can't do this. Maybe that will happen for her.

 

[Jambalaya]

Setting boundaries is important. Good for you. Just remember not to take her decisions personally. I really hope she finds a way out sooner than later.

Thank you, that's really good advice. I'll try to remember it.

 

[Jambalaya]

Maybe she'll wise up. I hope so. My relative finally did, tho nothing has been filed or signed or finalized yet, it's been started. His awakening just happened randomly, not during a bad time, more like one of those reflecting times when you're laying there trying to sleep or you're driving and you look over at the person and think I can't do this. Maybe that will happen for her.

I really hope so, Packrat. Thanks! How long did it take your relative to get out?

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Setting boundaries is important. Good for you. Just remember not to take her decisions personally. I really hope she finds a way out sooner than later.

Thank you, that's really good advice. I'll try to remember it.

I tell my patients all the time, QTIP, "Quit taking it personally." Carry one around as a reminder if you need to!

 

[packrat]

Maybe she'll wise up. I hope so. My relative finally did, tho nothing has been filed or signed or finalized yet, it's been started. His awakening just happened randomly, not during a bad time, more like one of those reflecting times when you're laying there trying to sleep or you're driving and you look over at the person and think I can't do this. Maybe that will happen for her.

I really hope so, Packrat. Thanks! How long did it take your relative to get out?

mmmmm...they've been married for 4 years this month, and it started before they got married, tho not to the extent that it became after. So, four years give or take?

 

[Jambalaya]

I do think that a lot of things people do are personal, but not in this case. I agree that she's deep in the sh*t and I'm not taking it so personally, now that I've got over her cold response a bit. It's such a pity that this situation has pushed us apart - I mean, even if she hadn't told me anything, I could see what he was like and I hated him from the first time I met him - but these situations are so serious and stressful that this is what they do - push families apart. I can't spend time with this man and I can't enable her anymore, so we are pushed apart. It's sad.

 

[Jambalaya]

Four years, that's not so bad - although four more years than you'd want to be in an abusive relationship, right! My cousin met her abuser exactly eleven years ago, has been living with him for almost eleven years and married for nine years. And no sign of leaving!

 

[MollyMalone]

I do think that a lot of things people do are personal, but not in this case. I agree that she's deep in the sh*t and I'm not taking it so personally, now that I've got over her cold response a bit. * * *

Cold response? She replied with a chatty e-mail "telling [you] all about their vacation and her daily life." It's true that she did not expressly say anything about the current state of the marital dynamics -- what you thought should be the topic at hand -- but consider how you framed your e-mail to her: you told her you didn't want to pry, that you were writing because you didn't want her to think you didn't care, indicated you were "wondering how things were", expressed your hope that things had improved at home, and then moved on to write about other stuff.

So it doesn't seem fair to me to castigate her for being rude, "ignoring" you. Plus, you can bet that if her husband had become a changed man, she would have told you that, so her failure to do so was a non-verbal communiqué.

In all my years as a prosecutor and then doing child protection litigation after leaving the DA's Office, I was never able to discern a universal (or even common) catalyst that propelled people to leave a highly abusive relationship, and not return. But I can say life is very scary for those men and women who are beaten down, even if not physically battered. And being told a myriad of things they should be doing can feel like just so many more demands on top of those being made by the abusive spouse or SO; these victims are exhausted in ways that are nigh impossible for others to fathom & their world is distorted, constricted, isolating.

It's too glib to say she is a professional, has money, a large house in a state where the woman is supposedly entitled to live until the youngest child is 18. E.g., bank accounts can be surreptitiously wiped out, locks changed by a spouse who has little-no integrity, believes him/herself to be the wronged party (think this is a man who will graciously say, "You know, you're right, I AM a SOB; I'll move into the Residence Inn in the next town tomorrow"?), etc.; depending on the total financial picture, the supposed guarantee of being able to remain in the marital home can evaporate. And, I'm very sorry to say, one cannot count on protective/restraining/keep-away orders being honored; they are violated, often in horrific ways, including murder of the "protected" party.

She may not reach out to you again with new horror stories, but if she does, here's my suggestion: say something along the lines of "It is awful, but it seems you feel you can't leave the relationship just yet. So how about formulating a safety plan for you and the children for now, while you all are living under the same roof? The National DV Hotline will walk you through that. And I hope you know your brother [and/or whoever, maybe you] will be honored if you ask him [them/us] to be a part of plans you make for the time being, and on down the line."

It is important that she have measures in place for her life (and the children's) as it is now. Those "baby steps" have the advantage of being more doable, less intimidating, than planning for The Big Escape. And in my experience, coming up with a safety plan for while living with the abuser can help give victims the confidence to move forward... and out.

Here's also wishing you all the best in finding some restorative antidotes for yourself; you have suffered many losses of late, and you must be weary. Take good care, no one can run on Empty for long ~ Molly

 

[Jambalaya]

Hi Molly, I can´t thank you enough for all that excellent advice - again! (I replied to your wisdom on the appointment-only thread.)

You know, I thought I understood because I experienced a violent home myself at one stage in my life, and it went on for a number of years. But I was the child in the scenario, not the wife, which is different. For the last decade I have had all those things in mind about being brain-washed, how incredibly difficult it is to leave despite having resources - all the things you say. I have kept those all in the forefront of my mind. But it´s been ten years and I feel like, ¨OK, yes it´s hard to leave. We know that. We know there are big obstacles. But you´re luckier than most - I wish I had a big brother to look after me - and the obstacles are not insurmountable - women do leave.¨ Of course, I would never say this, it´s just that he met her in 2004 and was being awful to her within weeks, before they´d even moved in together, so not being a DV professional, yes my patience is wearing thin. I take great pains to hide that, but it is wearing thin. It´s good to have your reminder that people in these situations are often exhausted in ways that others find hard to fathom.

That´s very interesting about there not being one catalyst that propelled people to return.

If there is a next time, I will say what you suggested about having a plan.

In her situation, the extended family doesn´t have a lot of sympathy because he was so obviously horrible right from the start and her response was to get further and further into it, long before their lives were enmeshed. They were dating and he was horrid, so she moved in. He got worse so she married him. A month after they were married he locked her out the house for the night and did other horrid things, and her response to that was to have a child with him. And so on - then second child. The view in the family is that it´s her own fault because he was so obviously horrid from the start, that she chose to move in, and then chose to marry him when she could easily have just moved out. (They lived in the same street, she owned her apt and all she had to do was walk out and up the street to her own home, which she hadn´t rented out.)

I have never subscribed to this family view. I´ve always been of the opinion that yes maybe she was silly to marry him, but that kind of talk doesn´t help her now. And his behavior is his fault, not hers.

However, I´m starting to feel as fed up as the rest of the family. It´s been a decade and it´s just going to go on and on and on. She believes everything he tells her - just one word from him that things will change and she´s all re-committed to the relationship. It is so obvious to me that there is no hope for him - he´s always been a total weirdo and a creep, and it´s interesting that his own father is exactly the same. They really are a pair of oddballs. It´s so clear to me that there is no hope for him or their marriage and I don´t believe in their marriage at all. Not to mention what all this is doing to the children. She was so stupid to marry him and so stupid to stay. It would have made much more sense if he´d been a master at deception, all lovely and then turning gradually more abusive once she had the first child, or something. But he was abusive from the start. That´s the part I don´t get, and eleven years later is is getting harder to keep feeling sympathetic.

 

[Sunstorm]

Until and unless she recognizes the problem, nothing will come out of it. SHE has to decide that her life is worth more than anything.

The first time it took me more than five years to get out. It was bad enough and I was living in the US and the police really helped me. He changed after he was put in jail. I stayed away as much as I could, I was finished then. But it took time and it really took a toll on me emotionally for a very very long time and you never truly recover.

The second time it happened to me was almost 15 years later and in a marriage, I still tried, victims blame themselves and defend the perpetrator but things got so awful and with me almost ending up dead that this time the whole thing lasted around a year. Police in Europe were horrible. Document, document, no one thinks about it until everything gets really out of hand. Record, document everything financial, as well as about the abuse, contact a lawyer ASAP before you make a step so you are prepared. But the problem is most victims forget to do this as they think now this time everything will be ok.

They know it won't but they don't admit it to themselves. They often stay quiet for a long time about what is happening until something really bad happens or for whaever reason they have had enough as it piled up. Sadly, you can only be there to support her but you cannot make her help herself until she decides that nothing is worth as much as her life.

Problem is she has kids, she should put the kids first, this is even worse, certain jurisdictions even indicte the mother for allowing the kids to endure abuse. You should somehow try to talk with her but since she closed up, not sure what you can do.

 

[Jambalaya]

Sunstorm, I am so sorry that those things happened to you. Hugs xxx You are obviously very strong to get out - twice. It makes me so angry when I think that there is this subset of men in the world who think it's OK to abuse their partners. I'm quite sure that they wouldn't like it if someone bigger and stronger than them started in on them. They must have no kindness or caring in their hearts at all. How a person can terrorize someone like that, and not wither up with guilt and shame, I will never know.

We talked a lot in the summer. She's closed up partly I think through embarrassment as I know so much, and partly because I stopped enabling since ten years of that hadn't helped, and I told her exactly what I thought. I said he has been like this for eleven years and he will never change, but only get worse. I said if she is going to get out she should do so while her mother and brothers are still alive and she can spend time visiting her mother's house, because her mother would comfort her and it's her family home, which won't be there after her mother goes. Her mom is 72 and has had cancer, and her dad has passed away of cancer (her abuser tried to stop her seeing her dad while he was dying). I also said she should do it while still relatively young and fit, because imagine getting sick and going through chemotherapy while living with an abuser (lots of cancer in our family). She said she heard everything I said and that they're all good points. But her abuser whispered rainbows in her ear about the future and she believed him immediately and completely. Of course, she wants to keep her family intact.

I didn't mention the children because I thought she was in a fragile state and I didn't want to lay that guilt trip on her, and also because I knew another family member was making a big fuss about the children to her brother. But of course, the children's situation is appalling, witnessing all that, and it would not surprise me at all if he was abusing the children behind her back. He's an abusive person! But I have no evidence.

I also don't think that I have any power at all to effect change - it has to come from her, and I have talked around the situation a lot with her, to no avail. Mentioning the children to her wouldn't make her get out any quicker. Her brother has been very vocal with her about the need to just get the hell out, and her mother is aware of everything. Since her dad died, he's got much worse, but she does have a lot of family support. However, she doesn't want to leave him and bust the family up - what she wants is for the abuse to stop. I don't know what it will take, if anything, to make her realize that it will never stop. The whole situation is very sad.

 

[Jambalaya]

After Packrat's update on her family domestic abuse situation, I thought I'd give my own update. I have some news, kind of.

Things stand like this. My cousin hasn't talked to me about her situation since I stopped enabling her and told her exactly what I thought. Actually, she's barely talked to me at all. (Recap: That I despise her husband, always have, that he will never change, things will only escalate, and if she's going to get out she should do it while she still has her mother, and I expressed concern for her mental health in the short and long term.) For the first time, my cousin ignored my birthday except an offhand email a few days later. She also will not tell me a thing about him anymore, and so putting it all together, I think she's probably angry with me for telling her the truth.

Anyway, I emailed her back and, having learnt my lesson, did not mention him or ask about him. Anyone who read this thread knows that I did so in recent weeks, and she ignored me so I didn't mention him this time. In that email exchange she mentioned that she has given up her well-paid job to do something more meaningful like work with kids, so she's volunteering at her local school. Having given up her income, I assumed that she is all set to stay with him, because I reasoned that if she was thinking of divorce, she probably wouldn't be giving up that job. I had accepted, really, that she will stay with him and that is her choice, and that if she is going to stay with him for the next few decades then we would have much less of a relationship, because I cannot stand by and watch, and I will not have that man in my home. I also cannot condone the marriage because of the effect on the two children.

However...last night I spoke to a family member who has just spoken to her mother, my aunt. Up till now, my aunt has pretended to the rest of the family that this isn't happening and she has not said a word to anyone. This has just changed - she has now told the entire family about it, which is major new behavior for her. My aunt never tells the rest of the family anything. Well, now she has become open about the fact that she hopes her daughter leaves him, that he is an alcoholic and his dad is the same. Here's the interesting part...she says that my cousin's two older brothers are about ready to go to the house and take out her and the kids. I have never heard talk like this before. Back in the summer, the two brothers appeared to be reluctant to take action, and now they seem on the verge of doing so.

A family member I live with is seeing my aunt today, so we will see what she says. But it seems as if the family are getting ready to do whatever is necessary to remove her. Of course, it has to be her choice in the end, and I can only hope that she chooses to save her children from this environment.

You know what makes me really sick? That the abuse escalated after her father died.

 

[packrat]

I hope she suddenly has an epiphany and realizes what she is doing to herself and her kids. I will cross my fingers!

 

[Sunstorm]

So sorry to hear about this Jambalaya. Sad thing is that when women are beaten up emotionally and/or physically not too many everyday person realizes that they lose their fighting power, lose their will. It is like being disabled in a way. Many go into denial, many feel that they are unable to do anything on their own as they no longer believe in themselves. It is the effect of abuse. This is why so many women do not leave abuse situations. It is incredibly difficult to understand but it is not their fault. They need compassionate supporters to help them get out and to help them stay out because I know women that keep going back after repeated attempts from the abuser to get them back.

She is not ignoring you intentionally, I am sure. This is just the sad psychology of the abuse. I hope that her family closeby helps her get and stay out. Saddest thing is when kids are involved. You would think that the women would put the kids first but at that point remember that they are beaten to the ground made to think that they are not capable of anything.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, Packrat and Sunstorm. Yeah, it's really, really hard for people to leave these situations.

In her situation right now, things aren't adding up. My relative saw her mother, and her mom says that her daughter has also stopped talking to her about it. She told my relative that things have been quiet for a while now (also my experience) and that she thinks the husband is drinking less.

It's tempting to deduce that she has gone silent because it's all so much worse. However, if it's so much worse, why has she left her highly paid job? She was telling me in a recent email (the late birthday email) that she has long wanted to do something more meaningful and work with kids, and she has mentioned this before a few times in the past few years. She handed in her notice and is doing some volunteer work at the local school.

If it's much worse, surely she would not have left her well-paid job?

But if it's better, surely she would have said so, because she'd be happy about that, and she would not be shutting out me and her mom?

So I don't understand what's going on. Also, I noticed that she is no longer Facebook friends with him, which is quite recent, and they used to talk to each other publicly quite a lot on Facebook. She's gone silent not only with me but also with her mom. It all sounds ominous....but then why would she leave that job for a low/non-existent income, if things were going from bad to worse? And I don't think he made her leave - she has mentioned wanting to work with kids a few times in recent years. But it seems a funny move to make, in her situation. It would indicate that things are better, except for the silence.

I think I'll just continue to communicate with her about everyday things but I won't mention her husband, as she ignored me the last time I did that. I'll just chat about everyday things, and I'll assume that she feels isolated so I'll just continue to keep in contact with her.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I think I'll just continue to communicate with her about everyday things but I won't mention her husband, as she ignored me the last time I did that. I'll just chat about everyday things, and I'll assume that she feels isolated so I'll just continue to keep in contact with her.

I think that is the best approach. Things are not adding up and being in contact is the best you can do for now. I do hope everything works out well.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks for your reply, Lady Disdain. I hope it will help just to remain in touch with her.