PS Pre-Owned Seller -OR- Trade Member?

[galeteia]

First of all, Hi Galateia!

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think there are a lot of people who wouldn't mind someone to find stuff for them. I probably wouldn't, because ebay scares me. So that's my disclaimer...

However, hobbyists AND vendors are trying to make money, period, off the consumers on this site.

AND...if you want to murky the waters further...

A vendor IS trying to make a living, as you pointed out. It's how they put food on the table, right? So a hobbyist comes along and starts offering her services here to members, making money in the process, taking away business from Pricescope advertisers. Hmmm....the plot thickens...

I'm just throwing around thoughts. None of them may be valid.

Hey chica! Did you see my post in LIW about finally getting engaged after all this time?

Hmm. More thoughts being thrown around: if it involves old cuts that are being sourced from the scary world of ebay, are they really taking away business from PS advertisers, who are not generally dealing in old cuts of unknown pedigree, which I consider to be the 'riskiest' buy as they don't come certed?

That's part of the appeal of GOG's AVC/AVRs, after all- the beauty of an old cut with none of the risk.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Have I missed a milgrain bezel bracelet??? Or am I just not recalling what you're talking about? Deco and I might have to fight over it! Show me the bling, Alj!!!!

(And Al...are you still with WF? That is not showing up on your posts. I am clearly out of the loop, sorry!)

DS, you have missed it, but not because you didn't see it. It's because I never posted it since trade members can't post their personal pieces, very much for the reasons noted in this thread.

No, I'm not with WF now. I spent close to 3 years at it, but the landscape of PS has changed very greatly and my interests in the trade have, too. I'm more interested in other paths within the trade, and I'd go in those directions if the right opportunity came along in the future. For now, though, I am still at the primary job I've held for more than 15 years and there is still challenge to be held there too.

SO....I guess that means I'll likely be able to make a thread at some point for that bracelet - will let you know when I do.

ALJ,bring back the chainsaw .

 

[Gypsy]

As for soliciting... WTF? Where did that come from? I NEVER solicited business.

From your .93 Transitional OEC thread ---

Aw man, if it had a sister stone I would have definitely made an offer for the pair and snapped them up for studs!

Only one gypsy?

Waaaaaaah!

Rosetta, contact me through DB. I might be able to get you a pair if you are interested.

I forgot about that.You are right that looks bad. No matter that I KNOW my intention wasn't soliciting (which is why I was shocked at the accusation by T-gal) as I was already buying the stupid things and that my GOAL in that post was just to tell her that I was just buying a pair and she could have dibs on them before I posted, what I knew would be a popular item, up for grabs. Road to Hell, and good intentions. Just offering dibs like we do on PSFB. Obviously this isn't PSFB though, and what I intended doesn't matter, and it looks bad. And I apologize. To you guys and to the moderators.

Further the reason the timing is the way it was is because, I had to wait a couple days for the seller to figure out how to make me an "exception" to her rules list cause I couldn't seem to buy them with my own account because I had 4 bid retractions. She finally couldn't figure it out I had to open a new account just to buy the damned things-- if you could see the buyer for those it would say "0" for feedback as it is a new account. I thought it was ironic that Rosetta wanted to buy exactly what I was having such a hard time buying myself and opened my mouth and inserted by foot.

What prompted my buy them in the first place is that a friend showed them to me SEVERAL DAYS AGO and reminded me of Kama's earrings and that so many people liked hers. So I thought... yeah, this would be a good flip.

Blah, blah, blah... excuses are like arseholes everyone's got one and they all stink.

As for the rest of it.

I just realized I am arguing with a bunch of people who have no decision authority. We can talk all we want. Proclaim what we want.

Ultimately Andrey will make his decision and we'll have to deal with the results.

For me, I already had the moderators remove ANY Of my flip postings on Pre-loved. Unless/Until Andrey makes a firm decision one way or another whether flips are valid to be posted on that forum, I DO VALUE MY REPUTATION TOO MUCH TO RISK IT. So I won't post anything there.

HOWEVER, Since I know for a FACT that before the Pre-loved forum MANY members here have flipped FOR PROFIT multiple stones on Diamond Bistro... I don't consider my flipping THERE to be in any way prohibited. Especially NOT for the one singled stone and a pair of earrings I current have for sale.

So I will be posting there. And if you don't like it (unless you are the moderators) you can continue to be unhappy about it HERE, on PSFB... wherever. But I don't have to listen to it, or the personal attacks, or the snide innuendos. I am out of THIS thead and all the others elsewhere and as far as I'm concerned the ONLY people that have a right to talk to me about this issue are the moderators. And they know how to reach me if my selling the OEC and the OEC earrings of DB bothers them.

The rest of you. Peace and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[movie zombie]

every website has growing pains.....seems like this is one of those....and i don't envy the owners/moderators on this one.

the more i think about it the more i like kenny's idea......selling pre-loved jewels/jewelry is a great idea but i'm not keen on an open door policy re flipping. i've always loved pricescope because people would help others in their search w/o looking for personal monetary gain..... the line between vendor/trades people was clearly drawn and understood.

another question: can someone join pricescope and immediately start selling their items? or is there a waiting period for new members?

 

[kenny]

You know guys, the more drama and trouble this is for admin the more likely they are to just shut down the PreLovedForum.

 

[Laila619]

You know guys, the more drama and trouble this is for admin the more likely they are to shut down the PreLovedForum.

I know.

Unless something truly becomes an issue, I don't think we need to make up a bunch of preemptive rules yet. JMHO.

 

[Upgradable]

Kenny, I don't see this as drama, but as the PS constituency voicing their questions and concerns about the subject. I would think the Moderators would be able to use these points by which to come to a decision on future parameters in the Pre-loved, Pre-owned forum.

 

[kenny]

I think minimum rules is best.
Pressuring other members to follow your version (or even the majority's) of values/ethics/fairness will always be a can of worms, over and over and over again.
Plus when it is your turn to sell you may see things in a whole different light.

The PS community has had about a decade to coalesce.
Allowing selling between us changes the mix, and the community will take time to adjust.

I think we need tolerance for how people vary now more than ever.
If you feel things should list for 30 to 50% of today' retail, then list YOUR items that way.
If you think flipping is wrong, then don't YOU do it.

If you don't like how others are selling, then as Ella said vote with your pocketbook; another buyer may be fine with the seller's listing.

I'm torn.
On one hand I think airing things out is healthy and I do not want to censor anyone, but on the other hand I think this thread is a good example of how a person wears different hats when buying and selling and we should cut sellers some slack.
You may be the next seller.

 

[VRBeauty]

HOWEVER, Since I know for a FACT that before the Pre-loved forum MANY members here have flipped FOR PROFIT multiple stones on Diamond Bistro... I don't consider my flipping THERE to be in any way prohibited. Especially NOT for the one singled stone and a pair of earrings I current have for sale.

So I will be posting there. And if you don't like it (unless you are the moderators) you can continue to be unhappy about it HERE, on PSFB... wherever. But I don't have to listen to it, or the personal attacks, or the snide innuendos. I am out of THIS thead and all the others elsewhere and as far as I'm concerned the ONLY people that have a right to talk to me about this issue are the moderators. And they know how to reach me if my selling the OEC and the OEC earrings of DB bothers them.

I've read this thread with interest and Im still sorting out my feelings over this topic. I've seen obvious flipping on DB and some less obvious flipping here. This thread was going to have to happen sooner or later - I'm surprised it happened so soon but that's only because I prefer to stay in my happy place as long as possible, thank you very much. Gypsy, although your listing may have sparked this thread, it really isn't about you (and I trust you know I mean that sincerely and NOT as a diss!). It's a discussion that needs to take place and your listings just happened to provide the catalyst. And as your listings noted, you are a long-time PS contributor, and one that does indeed enjoy a good reputation for helping others with your knowledge of diamonds and jewelry. That's also why your contributions to this discussion are also valuable... I hope you'll continue to participate.

Maybe we should resume this discussion after we've had our fill of tryptophan!

 

[rosetta]

As for soliciting... WTF? Where did that come from? I NEVER solicited business.

From your .93 Transitional OEC thread ---

Aw man, if it had a sister stone I would have definitely made an offer for the pair and snapped them up for studs!

Only one gypsy?

Waaaaaaah!

Rosetta, contact me through DB. I might be able to get you a pair if you are interested.

Oh, aye?

I missed that. I'm staying out of this (also because I now want a bigger pair ) potential minefield. But following this thread closely...

 

[MqLove]

My 2c is that flipping isn't bad or wrong, but should be discouraged on this forum. Leave it to the sales sites.

Ok, back to lurkdom...

 

[Pandora II]

Quite honestly I don't care if people turn a profit or not - if you are buying then you ask yourself if you like the item at the asking price... if not then don't buy it, if you buy it then don't moan later that someone might have made some money on it.

I do have a massive issue with the vendor/consumer crossover.

I would guess that almost all the diamond vendors are full-time businesses, however a large number of the coloured stone vendors do it as a spare-time hobby that they enjoy and make a bit of money at it.

I'd be pretty irritated if I was one of them sticking to the Trade status and rules and suddenly TL or LovingDiamonds or even I started flogging our collections on the Pre-Loved forum, especially as we continually criticise, praise and locate stones online for people for free. I'm sure there would be a big market for stones pre-vetted by TL looking at how often she is paged for her opinion.

I don't want to see a load of dealers sign up as consumers because it seems that it's fine to basically run a small business via the boards.

Anyway, just my thoughts and I've no idea how to control it either... perhaps the 'only 4 listings a year' but list up to 10 pieces in each listing?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Have I missed a milgrain bezel bracelet??? Or am I just not recalling what you're talking about? Deco and I might have to fight over it! Show me the bling, Alj!!!!

(And Al...are you still with WF? That is not showing up on your posts. I am clearly out of the loop, sorry!)

DS, you have missed it, but not because you didn't see it. It's because I never posted it since trade members can't post their personal pieces, very much for the reasons noted in this thread.

No, I'm not with WF now. I spent close to 3 years at it, but the landscape of PS has changed very greatly and my interests in the trade have, too. I'm more interested in other paths within the trade, and I'd go in those directions if the right opportunity came along in the future. For now, though, I am still at the primary job I've held for more than 15 years and there is still challenge to be held there too.

SO....I guess that means I'll likely be able to make a thread at some point for that bracelet - will let you know when I do.

Best of luck to you, Al, regardless of which path the road takes you! It is great you have a secure and challenging fulltime job.

Sooo...that DOES mean we get to see that bracelet! That would be super hard to be a trade member and not to be able to post personal pieces here! So you may have to start multiple threads!

 

[y2kitty]

Flipping just seems greedy to me.

 

[steph72276]

Here are my thoughts...

If someone wants to take the time to scour the internet or antique shops for a great deal and do all the legwork, they have every right to come back and post it for a fair price to others. However, I don't think PS is the place to do that. I have no issue with it done elsewhere though. I just don't think someone should use their reputation as a helpful member here to then in turn make money off people they have gained trust from. Especially when trying to sell items sight unseen, that may or may not live up to what the seller says it is. I agree there is no real way to monitor it, but if a person is flipping and trying to keep it under wraps, they should be prepared to be called out on it since a ton of us are savvy shoppers and have seen or bid on the exact same piece.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Here's my two cents...I have no problem with flipping, so much the better if the flipper takes the ebay or secondary market risk and gets appraisals, certs, etc. I could care less what the flipper charges, that is totally their choice, the market can vote with their purchases and/or comments about the price.

But, I do think that there needs to be some kind of vendor designation for people who are selling frequently, especially if they are buying an item with the intent to sell immediately. I don't know how/where the line should be drawn and assume the mods are figuring that out. I think Gypsy has been very helpful on RT and is straight-up in the way that she is handling this new venture but the last thing that I would want is for a bunch of uninformed ebay happy flippers to flood the preloved forum and/or the part-time peeps in colored stones who do have vendor status to get the short end of the stick...

If somone is selling something, whatever it may be and whether they have held it for a long time or are flipping, there is some kind of conflict of interest when they post on RT or other purchase oriented forums like colored stones. If they are just selling a few personal items that they are unloading, then the risk is pretty small that they will try to influence RT newbies in a way that would strengthen their sale BUT the more frequently they sell and the more oriented towards profit they are, the more the risk increases.

As far as DB, I can't see who selling there would be an issue, regardless of status. The only issue I would see is if someone was posting on RT or CS trying to influence buyers to buy their item on DB, which as far as I know is not allowed...

I'll be interested to see what the mods decide as it will definitely have an impact on PS. FWIW I really like the preloved forum and am thrilled to have it, right now I think it's just the wild wild west of PS and will take a little while to sort out the rules and culture on there.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Let me just say that anyone here absolutely would be free to buy and sell anything they want on ebay, craigslist, db, etc.! That is not even remotely an issue. PS only has authority over what is posted for sale here and we don't know what the future rules will be. I've already stated what my problem with the idea is. Flipping almost can't be stopped because all anyone would have to say is, "I bought these but decided they were not what I was looking for". For many of us, that would be 100% true!!! But bottom line, we are all free to buy or not buy based on our own ideas about this matter. I think the main issue for the moderators is to determine when a consumer turns into a vendor.

To Andrey and Ella...I hope you will let us keep the pre-loved forum! I think it is an excellent idea overall and these bumps in the road will get taken care of and we'll abide by whatever rules you set!

 

[Amys Bling]

Let me just say that anyone here absolutely would be free to buy and sell anything they want on ebay, craigslist, db, etc.! That is not even remotely an issue. PS only has authority over what is posted for sale here and we don't know what the future rules will be. I've already stated what my problem with the idea is. Flipping almost can't be stopped because all anyone would have to say is, "I bought these but decided they were not what I was looking for". For many of us, that would be 100% true!!! But bottom line, we are all free to buy or not buy based on our own ideas about this matter. I think the main issue for the moderators is to determine when a consumer turns into a vendor.

To Andrey and Ella...I hope you will let us keep the pre-loved forum! I think it is an excellent idea overall and these bumps in the road will get taken care of and we'll abide by whatever rules you set!

ditto to all of this,

 

[Karl_K]

This goes far beyond gypsy and to the heart of PS.

I am not saying Gypsy would do this but you can bet someone will.

They see someone is looking for something.
They find it and buy it on ebay cheap, mark it up and post it on the PS FS forum.
Has a friend point the person to the listing.
The persons buys it, wash rinse repeat.

From personal real world experience this will happen.

 

[Dancing Fire]

This goes far beyond gypsy and to the heart of PS.

I am not saying Gypsy would do this but you can bet someone will.

They see someone is looking for something.
They find it and buy it on ebay cheap, mark it up and post it on the PS FS forum.
Has a friend point the person to the listing.
The persons buys it, wash rinse repeat.

From personal real world experience this will happen.

but the buyer is taking a risk of hoping it would sell for a profit.

 

[Karl_K]

This goes far beyond gypsy and to the heart of PS.

I am not saying Gypsy would do this but you can bet someone will.

They see someone is looking for something.
They find it and buy it on ebay cheap, mark it up and post it on the PS FS forum.
Has a friend point the person to the listing.
The persons buys it, wash rinse repeat.

From personal real world experience this will happen.

but the buyer is taking a risk of hoping it would sell for a profit.

That is true, however if a vendor did this they would be banned and any mention of them would be banned.
It is not within the rules and spirit of PS for a vendor to do so.
imho it would not be within the spirit of PS for anyone to do this.

 

[Kaleigh]

This goes far beyond gypsy and to the heart of PS.

I am not saying Gypsy would do this but you can bet someone will.

They see someone is looking for something.
They find it and buy it on ebay cheap, mark it up and post it on the PS FS forum.
Has a friend point the person to the listing.
The persons buys it, wash rinse repeat.

From personal real world experience this will happen.

but the buyer is taking a risk of hoping it would sell for a profit.

That is true, however if a vendor did this they would be banned and any mention of them would be banned.
It is not within the rules and spirit of PS for a vendor to do so.
imho it would not be within the spirit of PS for anyone to do this.

This is how I feel too. Some how the spirit changed a long time ago. I hope this will continue, because who would I want to buy from?? A PS'er of course!!!

 

[Maisie]

I would also prefer to buy from a PS'er than a stranger.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would also prefer to buy from a PS'er than a stranger.

Same here. I would find confidence in purchasing something that had been carefully selected by a PSer for herself. Phoenix is a good example with some of her treasures currently listed. Gypsy and Dreamer's Aurora ring is another great example. I know these people have high standards and I would feel confident about buying things they had made for themselves. But flipping offers none of those assurances.

 

[Amys Bling]

I would also prefer to buy from a PS'er than a stranger.

Same here. I would find confidence in purchasing something that had been carefully selected by a PSer for herself. Phoenix is a good example with some of her treasures currently listed. Gypsy and Dreamer's Aurora ring is another great example. I know these people have high standards and I would feel confident about buying things they had made for themselves. But flipping offers none of those assurances.

DS we are on the same brainwave right now. I wouldn't mind buying from a PSer's personal collection i.e. Phoenix- if they are just downsizing or bored and looking for something new.

I would be more wary of other people finding something off ebay and then reselling. I have come to trust the eye and judgement of seasoned PSers such as Gypsy. She is phenomenal at finding amazing stones.... but I would be more concerned of others passing off less than stellar finds.

 

[MissStepcut]

I would also prefer to buy from a PS'er than a stranger.

Same here. I would find confidence in purchasing something that had been carefully selected by a PSer for herself. Phoenix is a good example with some of her treasures currently listed. Gypsy and Dreamer's Aurora ring is another great example. I know these people have high standards and I would feel confident about buying things they had made for themselves. But flipping offers none of those assurances.

Not to mention, if one of us persnickety PSers have worn a piece for a few hours, we're going to notice things like a crooked prong or twisted head or other small flaws that aren't necessarily easily and immediately apparent. Most of us would have that repaired, and if we didn't, an honest seller would disclose it. On a flip? I imagine you inspect it, maybe have it certed or appraised... but it seems likely a flip piece isn't going to get the same level of agonizing scrutiny.

 

[Amys Bling]

I would also prefer to buy from a PS'er than a stranger.

Same here. I would find confidence in purchasing something that had been carefully selected by a PSer for herself. Phoenix is a good example with some of her treasures currently listed. Gypsy and Dreamer's Aurora ring is another great example. I know these people have high standards and I would feel confident about buying things they had made for themselves. But flipping offers none of those assurances.

Not to mention, if one of us persnickety PSers have worn a piece for a few hours, we're going to notice things like a crooked prong or twisted head or other small flaws that aren't necessarily easily and immediately apparent. Most of us would have that repaired, and if we didn't, an honest seller would disclose it. On a flip? I imagine you inspect it, maybe have it certed or appraised... but it seems likely a flip piece isn't going to get the same level of agonizing scrutiny.

true

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I love the PS Pre Loved board a bit too much for comfort and I want to see it prosper. I have stayed way from this discussion but decided to come out and speak my mind.

Yes, there is a "trade member" under my name. Why? Because a year ago I decided to try selling hand fabricated silver jewelry on Etsy. It had been a hobby up to that point and I decided to take the plunge. I assure all of you that I am perfectly aware that nothing I do is up to PS standards. I know that I get 5 views a month from that link on my signature. And I know that, if I hadn't spoken up and asked to be identified as a trade member, no one would ever have found little old me out.

What do I get in turn? I can no longer share the pieces I wear daily here on PS. I can no longer point people towards good coloured gems bargains, help them out in their search, comment on pieces people are considering, etc. It has limited my PS participation a lot and I have had my wrist slapped (very politely and kindly too!) by Ella a couple of times for good reason, since I was, unwittingly, breaking those rules.

So, I lose a lot and gain nothing. Why did I do it? Because those $300 a month I earn from my craft makes me a vendor and I should behave as one and identify myself as one. I think that people who are describing themselves as "flippers" should have the same courtesy for this community and its rules, even if there is no way that PS mods will find out if they are doing it only in DB.

 

[MissStepcut]

I love the PS Pre Loved board a bit too much for comfort and I want to see it prosper. I have stayed way from this discussion but decided to come out and speak my mind.

Yes, there is a "trade member" under my name. Why? Because a year ago I decided to try selling hand fabricated silver jewelry on Etsy. It had been a hobby up to that point and I decided to take the plunge. I assure all of you that I am perfectly aware that nothing I do is up to PS standards. I know that I get 5 views a month from that link on my signature. And I know that, if I hadn't spoken up and asked to be identified as a trade member, no one would ever have found little old me out.

What do I get in turn? I can no longer share the pieces I wear daily here on PS. I can no longer point people towards good coloured gems bargains, help them out in their search, comment on pieces people are considering, etc. It has limited my PS participation a lot and I have had my wrist slapped (very politely and kindly too!) by Ella a couple of times for good reason, since I was, unwittingly, breaking those rules.

So, I lose a lot and gain nothing. Why did I do it? Because those $300 a month I earn from my craft makes me a vendor and I should behave as one and identify myself as one. I think that people who are describing themselves as "flippers" should have the same courtesy for this community and its rules, even if there is no way that PS mods will find out if they are doing it only in DB.

Link? I don't see one...

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Very discreet, in my sig I wonder if might have blocked signatures (does PS offer that functionality? I have no idea because I love reading everyone's signatures).