Not "Real American": Miss America 2014

[pregcurious]

I wish that pageants were only the celebration of the beauty of women, but vying women against each other mainly based on beauty is really shallow. Still, I think women who want to do this to themselves should be allowed.

At the end, I think that women who are not supportive of other women are pathetic. Have enough confidence in yourself, and basic manners to not denigrate another woman for her looks.

 

[AGBF]

Same here, ForteKitty. I wasn't born here, but was adopted from Korea as an infant and only actually speak English. I also get the"you speak English so well" comment (or more like, "you speak English real good") and hated where I grew up because of all the racism tossed at my sister and me. She was actually physically pushed around by people in high school.

I lived in England for awhile and even there, had a person demand to see my passport b/c he didn't believe I was American- I guess an Asian person =/= American to him?

You and I have talked a great deal about adoption in other threads in the past, LS, but other posters may not know it. I know you know my daughter was adopted at 7 weeks of age from Colombia in South America. She is now 21 and has studied a little Spanish in school, but frankly my Spanish (which is not great) is better than hers. People who work in McDonald's or cashiers at supermarkets sometimes address her in Spanish and it upsets her. She is actually proud to be "100% colombiana", but she doesn't like people to look at her and assume she she is Hispanic and Spanish speaking.

I looked for this thread earlier and couldn't find it. I don't want to threadjack. On the other hand, I don't want to start a thread just about my own daughter! I wanted to show what her experience was and what she looked like.

My thread...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/post195800.html#p195800']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/post195800.html#p195800[/URL]

Deb/AGBF

 

[pregcurious]

What does being American mean to you?

Honestly? As someone who was born and raised here, who speaks English as a first and main language, but has the appearance of an Asian person... I still feel that for other Americans to see you as American, you have to be white. It goes against what my definition of being American is, but experience with racism and other people's perception of my "color" has tainted my definition. It's hard to believe in something when all your experiences dictate otherwise.

I didn't always feel that way. I grew up feeling 100% American. I love my country, I was proud of the history, I love my freedom, and I was American first. When I was in jr. high, two men in San Diego walked out of a doorway and right into me. One apologized, the other one decided to comment that he didn't need to apologize because I wouldn't understand him anyway, and that chinks should open their eyes when they walk. That moment was seared into my mind, and is still incredibly vivid 21 years later. I encountered many more people like that since, some in California (what??!), and some in other states. (FL, NV, UT, CO, NY) Strangers I've met seemed awed and amazed when my mouth opens and English comes out. If I had a penny for every "but you have no accent" comment, I'd be rich.

So yeah, as much as I'd love to feel like an American, I don't. I'm missing one key component!

So true. I am Asian too. I tried explaining to someone why it's offensive to come over to my house, and ask my Asian guests if they were Korean, and then turn to me and say "how many cousins do you have?!" (For the record, the person who was asked is Korean, but she was not my cousin, and I don't have an "abnormal" number of cousins, certainly no more than the Caucasian person who was asking.) The person's response is that there's nothing wrong about asking someone their ethnicity, and they were just "curious". No one likes being treated like a curiosity. I am not an animal in a zoo. Unless you have something to offer me about my ethnicity, that benefits me, don't ask.

This same person said it was like how they asked about a girl, who was pretty, what her ethnicity was. Her mother was at the party and has light skin, but her daughter is darker skinned. The person thought there was nothing wrong about this question, and it was the same as going around and asking if my Asian friends were Korean, and commenting on how many cousins I may have. Disgusting. I want to throw up. I must go visit the thread about not carrying resentment and anger. The person is question is an in-law so I cannot punt them out of my life without lowering myself to their base, disgusting level.

 

[FrekeChild]

Oh heck, since it's gone this way....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ

 

[pregcurious]

Oh heck, since it's gone this way....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ

I love you Freke. So funny.

I have been so tempted to ask the same questions back, but never have. I have at times refused to answer the question the *way* it was intended, and to continue answering where I grew up, which is Boston.

 

[FrekeChild]

I just had to post it!!!!

 

[missy]

Oh heck, since it's gone this way....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ

I love you Freke. So funny.

I have been so tempted to ask the same questions back, but never have. I have at times refused to answer the question the *way* it was intended, and to continue answering where I grew up, which is Boston.

LOL too funny. I get the where are you from question and I hate it. I sometimes respond why do you want to know?

 

[AGBF]

LOL too funny. I get the where are you from question and I hate it. I sometimes respond why do you want to know?

I was going to carry on in this thread with more anecdotes, but I don't want to hijack this thread further with stories irrelevant to the original topic. I know madelise had negative feelings about having this thread going off in silly directions. So i thought I'd start a different, new thread in which we could discuss how we feel about being asked where we are from based on our appearance; our names (I get that one); or our accents (my foreign-born husband gets that). I think it's a really legitimate topic...just not the topic of this thread.

Here is a link to the new thread:

Thread on how you feel when strangers ask where you are from...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-feel-when-strangers-ask-where-are-you-from.193553/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-feel-when-strangers-ask-where-are-you-from.193553/[/URL]

AGBF

 

[pregcurious]

LOL too funny. I get the where are you from question and I hate it. I sometimes respond why do you want to know?

Good response. My in-laws would respond, "I'm just curious." To which I would answer, I'm not a curiosity.

ABGF, I think your point is relevant because it underlies the issue with Miss America. Some people look at her and see a beautiful American. Others see a foreigner. When someone asks me, where are you from, it gives me the impression that my race is the first thing you see, and the most important thing to that person. For some people, it is. I don't see the world that way and will move on to someone else.

 

[dragonfly411]

What does being American mean to you?

Honestly? As someone who was born and raised here, who speaks English as a first and main language, but has the appearance of an Asian person... I still feel that for other Americans to see you as American, you have to be white. It goes against what my definition of being American is, but experience with racism and other people's perception of my "color" has tainted my definition. It's hard to believe in something when all your experiences dictate otherwise.

I didn't always feel that way. I grew up feeling 100% American. I love my country, I was proud of the history, I love my freedom, and I was American first. When I was in jr. high, two men in San Diego walked out of a doorway and right into me. One apologized, the other one decided to comment that he didn't need to apologize because I wouldn't understand him anyway, and that chinks should open their eyes when they walk. That moment was seared into my mind, and is still incredibly vivid 21 years later. I encountered many more people like that since, some in California (what??!), and some in other states. (FL, NV, UT, CO, NY) Strangers I've met seemed awed and amazed when my mouth opens and English comes out. If I had a penny for every "but you have no accent" comment, I'd be rich.

So yeah, as much as I'd love to feel like an American, I don't. I'm missing one key component!

So true. I am Asian too. I tried explaining to someone why it's offensive to come over to my house, and ask my Asian guests if they were Korean, and then turn to me and say "how many cousins do you have?!" (For the record, the person who was asked is Korean, but she was not my cousin, and I don't have an "abnormal" number of cousins, certainly no more than the Caucasian person who was asking.) The person's response is that there's nothing wrong about asking someone their ethnicity, and they were just "curious". No one likes being treated like a curiosity. I am not an animal in a zoo. Unless you have something to offer me about my ethnicity, that benefits me, don't ask.

This same person said it was like how they asked about a girl, who was pretty, what her ethnicity was. Her mother was at the party and has light skin, but her daughter is darker skinned. The person thought there was nothing wrong about this question, and it was the same as going around and asking if my Asian friends were Korean, and commenting on how many cousins I may have. Disgusting. I want to throw up. I must go visit the thread about not carrying resentment and anger. The person is question is an in-law so I cannot punt them out of my life without lowering myself to their base, disgusting level.

I'm sorry, perhaps I don't fully understand, but I don't see a problem with asking someone's ethnicity? If we are to embrace diversity, then shouldn't we be free to ask about ethnicity? I have always seen it as a way to get to know someone, and to perhaps know more about their values, heritage and who they are. I have a friend who's mother is from the Phillipines. She has the most beautiful eyes and skin tone and hair. When I first met her, I did ask, and she was flattered and more than happy to share. Perhaps some cultures find it more offensive than others, or those who have been born here and don't necessarily embrace their original heritages? I am Portuguese on my father's side and Irish on my mom's side.... I choose to learn about those heritages and embrace them. I guess I don't see a problem with asking people about their heritage, history and things like that. I feel it is a way to know one another and to accept each other for who we are.

 

[madelise]

Oh heck, since it's gone this way....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ

Oh Gosh.. lol!

 

[pregcurious]

Reply to Dragonfly put on other thread.

 

[dragonfly411]

Pregcurious - I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't see a problem with asking someone where they are from. I see the problem with asking based on some fear of an ethnicity, or based on dislike for other races yes. I just don't see a problem with asking about people. Again, to me it is part of embracing who they are, be it if they say they're from Boston, or they say they're from Korea, or they say they're from London. Part of getting to know someone is getting to know who they are, where they're from, how they live, what they value, what they don't value, and ethnicity does play a role in that in families who honor their heritage. I am a white American girl, no doubt, but I have Portuguese blood very close up, and my family cooked certain meals and my grandmother is a firm Roman Catholic, and there are parts of that heritage that I embrace and that I recognize and that I sometimes like to share with others. My friend and her mother do not look at themselves as foreign, but they do recognize and honor traditions from their family and from that country. In some cases, it can make a difference in what someone eats, or wears, or how they speak, or their mannerisms. It's important to me to be able to respect those things about someone who has a different background than myself. It's not like someone's looking at you and saying "You're black, you must be from Africa." But to see someone who is different from myself, and to ask them "So where are you from, tell me about yourself," shouldn't be an offensive issue. Especially if you have no problem with yourself and your own history and ethnicity. Automatically assuming someone is asking from a perspective of discrimination or misunderstanding of who you are based on your race is playing the cards in reverse in my opinion. "You're white so you must not understand me being hispanic in America." That thought process isn't really fair for those of us who wish to better understand the people we meet, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or home country.

 

[missy]

Pregcurious - I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't see a problem with asking someone where they are from. I see the problem with asking based on some fear of an ethnicity, or based on dislike for other races yes. I just don't see a problem with asking about people. Again, to me it is part of embracing who they are, be it if they say they're from Boston, or they say they're from Korea, or they say they're from London. Part of getting to know someone is getting to know who they are, where they're from, how they live, what they value, what they don't value, and ethnicity does play a role in that in families who honor their heritage. I am a white American girl, no doubt, but I have Portuguese blood very close up, and my family cooked certain meals and my grandmother is a firm Roman Catholic, and there are parts of that heritage that I embrace and that I recognize and that I sometimes like to share with others. My friend and her mother do not look at themselves as foreign, but they do recognize and honor traditions from their family and from that country. In some cases, it can make a difference in what someone eats, or wears, or how they speak, or their mannerisms. It's important to me to be able to respect those things about someone who has a different background than myself. It's not like someone's looking at you and saying "You're black, you must be from Africa." But to see someone who is different from myself, and to ask them "So where are you from, tell me about yourself," shouldn't be an offensive issue. Especially if you have no problem with yourself and your own history and ethnicity. Automatically assuming someone is asking from a perspective of discrimination or misunderstanding of who you are based on your race is playing the cards in reverse in my opinion. "You're white so you must not understand me being hispanic in America." That thought process isn't really fair for those of us who wish to better understand the people we meet, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or home country.

Hi DF, It really depends on the context. I think most of us get the difference. When someone is asking because they genuinely want to get to know you vs asking for a different reason. When you first meet someone and are asked the question what are you it doesn't feel appropriate. It's a different story when you are getting to know someone and it comes up in the course of conversation. And again, I think most of us know when a question doesn't feel right vs when it is coming from a good place.

 

[pregcurious]

Pregcurious - I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't see a problem with asking someone where they are from. I see the problem with asking based on some fear of an ethnicity, or based on dislike for other races yes. I just don't see a problem with asking about people. Again, to me it is part of embracing who they are, be it if they say they're from Boston, or they say they're from Korea, or they say they're from London. Part of getting to know someone is getting to know who they are, where they're from, how they live, what they value, what they don't value, and ethnicity does play a role in that in families who honor their heritage. I am a white American girl, no doubt, but I have Portuguese blood very close up, and my family cooked certain meals and my grandmother is a firm Roman Catholic, and there are parts of that heritage that I embrace and that I recognize and that I sometimes like to share with others. My friend and her mother do not look at themselves as foreign, but they do recognize and honor traditions from their family and from that country. In some cases, it can make a difference in what someone eats, or wears, or how they speak, or their mannerisms. It's important to me to be able to respect those things about someone who has a different background than myself. It's not like someone's looking at you and saying "You're black, you must be from Africa." But to see someone who is different from myself, and to ask them "So where are you from, tell me about yourself," shouldn't be an offensive issue. Especially if you have no problem with yourself and your own history and ethnicity. Automatically assuming someone is asking from a perspective of discrimination or misunderstanding of who you are based on your race is playing the cards in reverse in my opinion. "You're white so you must not understand me being hispanic in America." That thought process isn't really fair for those of us who wish to better understand the people we meet, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or home country.

Hi DF, It really depends on the context. I think most of us get the difference. When someone is asking because they genuinely want to get to know you vs asking for a different reason. When you first meet someone and are asked the question what are you it doesn't feel appropriate. It's a different story when you are getting to know someone and it comes up in the course of conversation. And again, I think most of us know when a question doesn't feel right vs when it is coming from a good place.

I agree. If someone is asking because they genuinely want to get to know me, I can tell. If they get short answers and keep on pushing, then I find it offensive, as I would with _any_ question. Yet, some people feel it's okay to be pushy with this question and keep on doing it after repeatedly being told that it can be offensive, or that it can be misconstrued. DF, I'm not sure if you see what we are saying. Perhaps if you talk to one of your friends who is not white, and is American, they can explain better.

When I explain table manners to my daughter, I make it clear that it's for the benefit of others. This is the same. It's for the benefit of not offending other people, not for satisfying the way you feel like eating, or in this case, your curiosity. If you chose to keep on asking, and do it in the wrong context, resulting in people getting offended, then that is your choice. Perhaps you always ask in a polite way, in a way in which would not offend anyone. For myself, because I know it can easily be offensive, and it really doesn't matter to me what ethnicity someone is, I don't ask. I have made friends of every major religion (yes even Muslim! for the context of this thread), and from every continent, and I've never had to ask. When I got to know them, they welcomed me into learning about their life, which may or may not include their ethnicity (e.g. I have multiple adopted friends who find this line of questioning the most tiresome.)

 

[Indylady]

Pregcurious - I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't see a problem with asking someone where they are from. I see the problem with asking based on some fear of an ethnicity, or based on dislike for other races yes. I just don't see a problem with asking about people. Again, to me it is part of embracing who they are, be it if they say they're from Boston, or they say they're from Korea, or they say they're from London. Part of getting to know someone is getting to know who they are, where they're from, how they live, what they value, what they don't value, and ethnicity does play a role in that in families who honor their heritage. I am a white American girl, no doubt, but I have Portuguese blood very close up, and my family cooked certain meals and my grandmother is a firm Roman Catholic, and there are parts of that heritage that I embrace and that I recognize and that I sometimes like to share with others. My friend and her mother do not look at themselves as foreign, but they do recognize and honor traditions from their family and from that country. In some cases, it can make a difference in what someone eats, or wears, or how they speak, or their mannerisms. It's important to me to be able to respect those things about someone who has a different background than myself. It's not like someone's looking at you and saying "You're black, you must be from Africa." But to see someone who is different from myself, and to ask them "So where are you from, tell me about yourself," shouldn't be an offensive issue. Especially if you have no problem with yourself and your own history and ethnicity. Automatically assuming someone is asking from a perspective of discrimination or misunderstanding of who you are based on your race is playing the cards in reverse in my opinion. "You're white so you must not understand me being hispanic in America." That thought process isn't really fair for those of us who wish to better understand the people we meet, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or home country.

You identify as a "white American girl." In many ways, that is a privilege that others can't share in the same way.

Its likely that you don't mind the question because you aren't asked it very often. I understand that the question "Where are you from?" might seem like harmless question, but its a question that comes with the connotation "You're not from here. You do not belong here." Like when you find an errant screw on the ground, and you wonder, "where is this from?" because the screw is not in its rightful place.

 

[Matata]

I enjoyed Leonard Pitts column on the subject http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/21/3639842/ignorant-bigotry-of-miss-americas.html

 

[ForteKitty]

Pregcurious - I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't see a problem with asking someone where they are from. I see the problem with asking based on some fear of an ethnicity, or based on dislike for other races yes. I just don't see a problem with asking about people. Again, to me it is part of embracing who they are, be it if they say they're from Boston, or they say they're from Korea, or they say they're from London. Part of getting to know someone is getting to know who they are, where they're from, how they live, what they value, what they don't value, and ethnicity does play a role in that in families who honor their heritage. I am a white American girl, no doubt, but I have Portuguese blood very close up, and my family cooked certain meals and my grandmother is a firm Roman Catholic, and there are parts of that heritage that I embrace and that I recognize and that I sometimes like to share with others. My friend and her mother do not look at themselves as foreign, but they do recognize and honor traditions from their family and from that country. In some cases, it can make a difference in what someone eats, or wears, or how they speak, or their mannerisms. It's important to me to be able to respect those things about someone who has a different background than myself. It's not like someone's looking at you and saying "You're black, you must be from Africa." But to see someone who is different from myself, and to ask them "So where are you from, tell me about yourself," shouldn't be an offensive issue. Especially if you have no problem with yourself and your own history and ethnicity. Automatically assuming someone is asking from a perspective of discrimination or misunderstanding of who you are based on your race is playing the cards in reverse in my opinion. "You're white so you must not understand me being hispanic in America." That thought process isn't really fair for those of us who wish to better understand the people we meet, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or home country.

You identify as a "white American girl." In many ways, that is a privilege that others can't share in the same way.

Its likely that you don't mind the question because you aren't asked it very often. I understand that the question "Where are you from?" might seem like harmless question, but its a question that comes with the connotation "You're not from here. You do not belong here." Like when you find an errant screw on the ground, and you wonder, "where is this from?" because the screw is not in its rightful place.

The bolded part is pretty much it. This is what people usually ask:

"Where are you from?" "Los Angeles"
"No, where were you born?" "Los Angeles"
"But you're Asian. Where are you really from?" "seriously?"

eta: I am very proud of my heritage. I speak and read the language and I know more about my history than most of my peers. I just don't like when people assume I'm not from around here. You don't want to know how often I've been told that I should "Go back to where you belong".

 

[AGBF]

I wish that the people in the other thread could see the conversation that took place above. Would anyone mind if I copied and pasted it into the thread that asks how one would feel if he were asked where he was from? I don't think that quoting from another thread is ever against the Pricescope rules, so I am going to do it. Ella can delete it if it violates a rule or if anyone quoted here objects.

Deb

 

[justginger]

Oh heck, since it's gone this way....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ

The look on his face at 0:35. He looks extraordinarily pleased with himself, lol. "Your people" - what a terrible term.

 

[rosetta]

Oh heck, since it's gone this way....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ

The look on his face at 0:35. He looks extraordinarily pleased with himself, lol. "Your people" - what a terrible term.

LOL. I think she may have gotten her British and Irish cliches mixed up a little.

I was born in one country, raised in another, citizen of two other countries, and now live in yet another country, of which I am soon to become a citizen. My great grandparents, grandparents, parents and I don't share the same nationality. One branch of my family used to transport pilgrims via camel caravans to Mecca for the hajj. They have now melded into the Arabic speaking world and we no longer speak the same language. One branch went to Germany, and no longer speak anything but German. I have cousins now living all over the world, from Canada to Japan. I am unusual in that I actually married someone who is roughly ethnically the same as myself.

I'm from planet earth.

 

[dragonfly411]

Pregcurious - I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I honestly don't see a problem with asking someone where they are from. I see the problem with asking based on some fear of an ethnicity, or based on dislike for other races yes. I just don't see a problem with asking about people. Again, to me it is part of embracing who they are, be it if they say they're from Boston, or they say they're from Korea, or they say they're from London. Part of getting to know someone is getting to know who they are, where they're from, how they live, what they value, what they don't value, and ethnicity does play a role in that in families who honor their heritage. I am a white American girl, no doubt, but I have Portuguese blood very close up, and my family cooked certain meals and my grandmother is a firm Roman Catholic, and there are parts of that heritage that I embrace and that I recognize and that I sometimes like to share with others. My friend and her mother do not look at themselves as foreign, but they do recognize and honor traditions from their family and from that country. In some cases, it can make a difference in what someone eats, or wears, or how they speak, or their mannerisms. It's important to me to be able to respect those things about someone who has a different background than myself. It's not like someone's looking at you and saying "You're black, you must be from Africa." But to see someone who is different from myself, and to ask them "So where are you from, tell me about yourself," shouldn't be an offensive issue. Especially if you have no problem with yourself and your own history and ethnicity. Automatically assuming someone is asking from a perspective of discrimination or misunderstanding of who you are based on your race is playing the cards in reverse in my opinion. "You're white so you must not understand me being hispanic in America." That thought process isn't really fair for those of us who wish to better understand the people we meet, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or home country.

You identify as a "white American girl." In many ways, that is a privilege that others can't share in the same way.

Its likely that you don't mind the question because you aren't asked it very often. I understand that the question "Where are you from?" might seem like harmless question, but its a question that comes with the connotation "You're not from here. You do not belong here." Like when you find an errant screw on the ground, and you wonder, "where is this from?" because the screw is not in its rightful place.

The bolded part is pretty much it. This is what people usually ask:

"Where are you from?" "Los Angeles"
"No, where were you born?" "Los Angeles"
"But you're Asian. Where are you really from?" "seriously?"

eta: I am very proud of my heritage. I speak and read the language and I know more about my history than most of my peers. I just don't like when people assume I'm not from around here. You don't want to know how often I've been told that I should "Go back to where you belong".

If we are ever going to escape the idea of racism on EITHER end of the spectrum, then me viewing myself as a white person can't be viewed as a "Privilege", just like people of other ethnicity cannot continue to victimize themselves, and I as a white person shouldn't be able to victimize them or view them as better than myself. Guess what? I am a privileged white American girl who is struggling to pay her bills. I am a privileged white American girl who feels lucky to have a home, and couldn't have afforded it without a little help. I am a privileged white American girl who cannot afford schooling in the general four years that is allotted a college student because I can't afford to pay my own tuition by myself, and am the last person who is considered for scholarships because I am the average white American girl and my parents should be able to put me through school, but they can't because they are single and have two girls to try to get through school. I am a privileged white American girl who uses coupons and sales to make sure she keeps her groceries under $100 a week b/c we have to remodel our bathroom because it had old plumbing with leaks that were starting to cause mold. I am tired of hearing that white Americans are automatically privileged for being white. That is where I get angry with a double standard. Not every white American is racist, and proving so by asking someone else where they are from, and not every white American is privileged and living some easy life where no one judges them. Instead of getting asked where we are from, we instead get asked whether we are being genuine, and it is assumed that we are always being insulting. It is assumed we are out to degrade, and belittle. Do not assume if you do not want others to assume. That is how we will escape racism, or judging, or questioning. I do not assume that I know anything about anyone until I meet them, talk to them and yes, ask them about themselves. That's how you know who a person really is, and what they really face every day. It doesn't matter if they are white, black, brown, green, purple, orange or blue. Me being a white American has nothing to do with who I am, and my neighbor being Asian has nothing to do with who they are. So just like we should not ASSUME about people who are a different ethnicity, they should not ASSUME about people who are White.

 

[Indylady]

I think you misunderstand my use of the word privilege. White privilege does not mean that you are rich, or that you victimize others, or that you are racist, or that you can afford an education, or that you do not have your own problems. I do not assume that you are particularly one way or another.

White privilege means that bandaids, and nude pumps, are made in your skin color. It means that the image of the "All American Girl" that has blonde hair and blue eyes looks kind of like you. It means no one asks you if you speak English. It means that this thread on a "not real American" Miss America would not exist if Miss America were white. I have not read the entire Wikipedia, but this is what white privilege means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege...

You seem set in your opinions of racism. Some victims of racism are angry. Some are hurt. Try to see it from the point of view of someone that is hurt. It will help you see the phenomenon as something that is human, and has a human effect. You seem to place the onus on minorities to "stop feeling like victims." I wish it was that easy.

 

[ForteKitty]

DF, I don't assume anything. My experiences tainted my innocence, as my previous posts mentioned. Did you read any of that? I'm merely cautious now. If someone asks about my background, I will gladly share. PS folks who know me IRL know that I love to share my family's stories. However, if someone asks me WHAT I am, or insist that I can't possibly be born in America, I get sarcastic. You can sense intent by how people word their questions.

I'm sorry you feel there is a double standard. Please understand that most people who have been discriminated against are just cautious because they don't want to get burned again. If you genuinely want to know about people's backgrounds, they can sense it and they will open up.

 

[dragonfly411]

I think you misunderstand my use of the word privilege. White privilege does not mean that you are rich, or that you victimize others, or that you are racist, or that you can afford an education, or that you do not have your own problems. I do not assume that you are particularly one way or another.

White privilege means that bandaids, and nude pumps, are made in your skin color. It means that the image of the "All American Girl" that has blonde hair and blue eyes looks kind of like you. It means no one asks you if you speak English. It means that this thread on a "not real American" Miss America would not exist if Miss America were white. I have not read the entire Wikipedia, but this is what white privilege means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege....

You seem set in your opinions of racism. Some victims of racism are angry. Some are hurt. Try to see it from the point of view of someone that is hurt. It will help you see the phenomenon as something that is human, and has a human effect. You seem to place the onus on minorities to "stop feeling like victims." I wish it was that easy.

Seriously? Bandaids and nude pumps?


Why is it that another race or ethnicity is allowed to be hurt, but I can't be hurt by people calling me privileged as a white blonde haired blue eyed girl? THAT is why we cannot escape racism, b/c there is blindness on every side. If you aren't white you are victimized, but it is ok to decide that a white American is privileged b/c band aids are made in their color. I place the onus on everyone to stop making things about skin color. It should not be ok for a non-white American to make a statement exactly like what you've stated above, just like it should not be ok for a white-American to state you're a terrorist because you're more tan skinned, or that you're a thug for being black.

P.S. If you could please point out where on their packaging or website it states that the bandages are "nude" colored, please feel free to point out where. http://www.band-aid.com/our-products/durable-protection

 

[blackprophet]

I think you misunderstand my use of the word privilege. White privilege does not mean that you are rich, or that you victimize others, or that you are racist, or that you can afford an education, or that you do not have your own problems. I do not assume that you are particularly one way or another.

White privilege means that bandaids, and nude pumps, are made in your skin color. It means that the image of the "All American Girl" that has blonde hair and blue eyes looks kind of like you. It means no one asks you if you speak English. It means that this thread on a "not real American" Miss America would not exist if Miss America were white. I have not read the entire Wikipedia, but this is what white privilege means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege......

You seem set in your opinions of racism. Some victims of racism are angry. Some are hurt. Try to see it from the point of view of someone that is hurt. It will help you see the phenomenon as something that is human, and has a human effect. You seem to place the onus on minorities to "stop feeling like victims." I wish it was that easy.

Seriously? Bandaids and nude pumps?


Why is it that another race or ethnicity is allowed to be hurt, but I can't be hurt by people calling me privileged as a white blonde haired blue eyed girl? THAT is why we cannot escape racism, b/c there is blindness on every side. If you aren't white you are victimized, but it is ok to decide that a white American is privileged b/c band aids are made in their color. I place the onus on everyone to stop making things about skin color. It should not be ok for a non-white American to make a statement exactly like what you've stated above, just like it should not be ok for a white-American to state you're a terrorist because you're more tan skinned, or that you're a thug for being black.

P.S. If you could please point out where on their packaging or website it states that the bandages are "nude" colored, please feel free to point out where. http://www.band-aid.com/our-products/durable-protection

It means never getting pulled over by the cops for driving the speed limit. It means never being followed in a store, even though you are wearing a buisness suit. It means never being told you speak your native language well. Etc.

Its a fine distinction, but they are not saying you are privaledged, but you have a privaledge. Maybe band-aid doesnt mention it, but there are lots of products called "skin coloured" and are the colour of a white persons skin. These are things ingrained in our society. And we can't escape racism because its ingrained in our society, not because ethnic people can't let it go. Look at all of the examples indy gave. Are ethnic people to blame for those? No thats they way our society operates. Whether you feel you get any benefits from it, the privaledge is there. Its not meant to denigrade or invalidate your opinion.

No one said for you not to be hurt. Indy was just clarifying what she meant by privaldge. But I personally its wrong to say to ethnic people to get over it and stop making it about race. Others make it about race every day, I seldom live a day where I don't experience some form of racisim. I think we have a right to be a little cautious.

If 20 people ask me where I'm from and are malicious about it, I'm sorry, but if you ask me as the 21st person, my gut reaction will be to think you are going to be malicious about it. That is human nature.

 

[AGBF]

Earlier in this thread I wrote to madelise:

Well, that's the thing about threads. Other people get to say what they think in them. So they don't always go where you want them to go.

A little while ago in this thread I tried, by copying the discussion about race and privilege, to move it to another thread, away from this thread which was nominally about slurs cast on the current Miss America. But threads don't always go where one wants.... This one appears to be staying right here to discuss privilege. So I guess I will have to move what I wrote about privilege (and posted in the other thread) over here if I want other posters to consider it.

Deb/AGBF


blackprophet, in the meantime, said a lot of what I had wanted to say. I love the pluck with which black people have labeled the hideous racism they are forced to tolerate while behind the wheel of a car (which blackprohet describes). How can they have so much humor in the face of the grind they endure? To have come up with the notion that they are charged with, "driving while black" is not only brilliant and quirky, but sly. It's an intelligent slap at a stupid policy by the white-dominated establishment.

It means never getting pulled over by the cops for driving the speed limit. It means never being followed in a store, even though you are wearing a buisness suit. It means never being told you speak your native language well. Etc.

Its a fine distinction, but they are not saying you are privaledged, but you have a privaledge. Maybe band-aid doesnt mention it, but there are lots of products called "skin coloured" and are the colour of a white persons skin. These are things ingrained in our society. And we can't escape racism because its ingrained in our society, not because ethnic people can't let it go. Look at all of the examples indy gave. Are ethnic people to blame for those? No thats they way our society operates. Whether you feel you get any benefits from it, the privaledge is there.