Not "Real American": Miss America 2014

[AGBF]

By the way, I never meant that madelise called women "golf balls". I meant that madelise thought of the highly educated (or as I put it, "highly intelligent" women participating in a beauty pageant) and golf balls in the same light. Once again, I was not being literal.

mea culpa

AGBF

 

[athenaworth]

So it’s not OK for anyone to misconstrue you’re “metaphor” but it’s totally OK for you to say that Madelise compared women to golf balls?

If one is watching golf on television instead of watching a beauty pageant, what is one watching?

One is watching a golf ball fly.

I stand by that.

AGBF

One is watching precision, concentration, coordination, and maybe even some pretty scenry. I stand by my assessment that the rules on this matter apply to everyone but you.

 

[Kaleigh]

So glad she won.. Lovely lady, intelligent and will do a lot of good going forward....

I don't get the haters...

They are ignorant...

But to each their own..

I am thinking she will do a great job so bravo for her..

And no not a pagent lover. BUT I do know these ladies are educated, and highly motivated to succeed in their careers...So claps to those with a focus and bring their interests and platforms to the public.. Educating us about a wide range of issues...

All good in my book...

Happy for her!!!

 

[makhro82]

All you have to do is read Yahoo, CNN, or ESPN COMMENT SECTIONS to realize how crazy and hung up we are on race in this country. And I'm sure there are people who truly believe that she's un-American. I'm Black and my husband is Black and it would be a lie to say that that has not shaped my experiences and life in America.

 

[missy]

Deb, I understand what you are saying. You are not the bad guy here. What is happening right now in this thread is unpleasant.

Athenaworth-absolutely agree. Donald Trump certainly likes any kind of attention. Good or bad.

 

[AGBF]

So it’s not OK for anyone to misconstrue you’re “metaphor” but it’s totally OK for you to say that Madelise compared women to golf balls?

If one is watching golf on television instead of watching a beauty pageant, what is one watching?

One is watching a golf ball fly.

I stand by that.

One is watching precision, concentration, coordination, and maybe even some pretty scenry. I stand by my assessment that the rules on this matter apply to everyone but you.

What does that mean?

 

[Kaleigh]

I hate how racist people are. I am very sensitive to this subject as the people who I most relate to and who raised me are black.. I am the waspy white looking girl.. BUT I don't relate to that at all... I am a differefent breed...

 

[FrekeChild]

As someone who has done pageants as a child, I'm kind of upset that some of you wish they no longer exist. Who cares?

You appear to be contradicting yourself. You say that you did pageants as a child, so that the topic matters to you, but then when it comes to how others feel about them you write, "who cares?" as if the topic is unimportant. If it matters to you, why shouldn't the topic matter to others?

Really? I mean who cares as in, if you don't like it, don't watch it. If I don't like something, I don't watch it or participate in it. Like horror movies or golf. I don't like either, but I don't wish they don't exist.

I understand, madelise. But some forms of "entertainment" are not as innocuous as golf. What if I were to substitute televised dog fighting for golf? Would you still take the position that people should just watch it or turn it off?

Deb

What does any of this matter to the thread topic at hand? Golf is dreadfully boring (my personal opinion). Dog fighting is illegal (fact). Beauty Pageants are...a lot of things. People can watch whatever they choose for entertainment purposes.

I think that these attacks on the new Miss America because of her race are awful and I feel for everyone who has ever been thought as less worthy of something because of their race. Also, there is nothing wrong with someone being of Middle Eastern descent or being Muslim.

Eesh.

 

[distracts]

I just find it hilarious how many people are calling her arabic and middle-eastern... she's Indian, guys, that's different. The people making those comments are not only racist but insanely ignorant.

 

[packrat]

I think being American means you can be a jerk or an ass, you're never at fault for anything and everyone owes you something, and you need to be pretty and look good in a swim suit. Politeness and manners have gone out the window and kindness is something from the days of yore.

I was always taught that America is the melting pot. America is supposed to look like a Benetton (sp) ad.

Now I think we just look like a country of giant douches.

 

[cygnet]

Now I think we just look like a country of giant douches.

...I probably shouldn't laugh though, your words have merit IMO.

 

[missy]

I just find it hilarious how many people are calling her arabic and middle-eastern... she's Indian, guys, that's different. The people making those comments are not only racist but insanely ignorant.

I find the 2 go hand in hand. Any racist I ever knew was insanely ignorant. Mutually inclusive IMO.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I've oddly been the subject of "positive" racism if there is such a thing...
I'm Chinese, and all my life I've had lots of largely "positive" assumptions made about me due to the fact that I'm asian. People assume I"m smart, good at math, have a great work ethic, am very polite, and very clean, lol. These things are all true mind you, but still! I kid you not, I've had patients tell me they love having asian doctors because we're brighter and cleaner than our caucasian counterparts...oy.

 

[kenny]

Americans vary.





I think beauty pageants are stupid ... but then I'm not a straight guy.
If they had 'pageants' featuring the type of guys I find attractive I might be tempted to watch.

Good, bad, right, or wrong sexual attraction is powerful thing.
They have found a zillion ways to make money off it.

Establishing an impossibly unachievable ideal of beauty fuels a massive industry.
Women are made to feel inadequate so they spend a fortune to 'improve' their appearance and cling to youth.

 

[makhro82]

I've oddly been the subject of "positive" racism if there is such a thing...
I'm Chinese, and all my life I've had lots of largely "positive" assumptions made about me due to the fact that I'm asian. People assume I"m smart, good at math, have a great work ethic, am very polite, and very clean, lol. These things are all true mind you, but still! I kid you not, I've had patients tell me they love having asian doctors because we're brighter and cleaner than our caucasian counterparts...oy.

This is common for Asians and Indians who are usually considered smart and hardworkers.
Blacks are lazy, ignorant, and violent.
Jews are stingy and wealthy.
Mexicans are hardworking baby makers.

Stereotypes, prejudice, and racism are lame.

 

[AGBF]

I just returned from the thread in Show Me The Bling which celebrates yellow gold. Some of the women who posted in this thread yesterday post in that thread. They appear to appreciate yellow gold, as do I. We have something in common.

While trying to find a link to the thread commonly referred to as, "The Gold Thread" for a poster I know in that thread about yellow gold, I flipped through some of the pages of The Gold Thread tonight. It is quite long, perhaps 60 pages. (I do not recall offhand.) I therefore do not remember every topic that we ever discussed in The Gold Thread. It was fun to come upon one (on page 47) that related to the topic of cultural diversity, however.

Some of the women who post to The Gold Thread are of Asian background. They come to the thread with a rich historical knowledge of gold jewelry and a heritage of customs that their families practiced and still practice with the jewelry. The Asian women or women with Asian roots come from different ethnic groups, countries, and religious backgrounds and no one asks questions of those who do not volunteer information about themselves.

The wedding of one poster and the posting of the wedding jewelry of another poster led me to remember the way one of my friends, who is Pakistani, was painted in henna for her wedding. So I gathered a lot of photos of brides from various parts of the Middle East and South Asia (India and Pakistan) and posted them with their different styles of henna painting and 24 karat gold jewelry.

I am pointing this out now in an attempt to show that not only am I, personally, dedicated to promoting cultural diversity, but that Pricescope is. The Gold Thread has been a wonderful thread where international posters have taught posters from the US and the UK a great deal and where discussion of history and politics has taken place so quietly, seriously, and civilly that no one noticed it was happening.

If you want to see some beautiful women, take a look at the brides painted delicately in henna on page 47 of The Gold Thread. I will provide a link.

Brides of the Gold Thread...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-you-have-a-favorite-gold-designer.29197/page-47']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-you-have-a-favorite-gold-designer.29197/page-47[/URL]

Deb/AGBF

 

[dragonfly411]

1) I don't like Pageants. I think they are silly.

2) I think it's great that she won if she won based on her merits as a person.

BUT... and this is a very cautious but coming from someone who really didn't know much about the contestants. I WAS rooting for Miss Kansas. Why? Because she is a member of the National Guard, because she is who she is no matter what others think (thinking of her tattoos and her attitude), and because she understands the need for hunters and she bow hunts. Others may not agree with that last part, but she is like me, a responsible hunter. If hunters did not hunt, there would be a huge overpopulation of deer, hogs, and other wildlife, causing more car accidents, and depleting the natural vegetation in the wilderness. To me, Miss Kansas is the all around American girl, and she was given the award of "America's choice" because of the nation's response to her. I am confused as to how America's choice isn't Miss America, but again, I know very little about pageants.I do hope that Nina takes her role seriously and that she works to make this country better in her own way. It sounds like she has a bright future ahead of her as a doctor, which I highly respect.

 

[madelise]

I think I finally got the closure to this that I really wanted. Thank you all for giving your opinions and comments. Yes, I actually needed closure because I was that upset. Racism bothers me very much. No, I'm not a prude, and I don't get upset over small jokes like "You're Asian, so you're a bad driver" or whatever, but calling someone the n-word with ill-intent, or calling someone a terrorist is serious business.

My friend shared with me that there are more people upset over those couple of hundred of ignorant tweets than there are people who tweeted. It makes me feel better.

http://imgur.com/a/tZQjc

 

[AGBF]

I think I finally got the closure to this that I really wanted. Thank you all for giving your opinions and comments. Yes, I actually needed closure because I was that upset. Racism bothers me very much.

I'm glad that you got the closure you needed, madelise. You certainly deserved it. You are clearly a very principled woman who is willing to stand up for what is right. You were looking at the bigger picture yesterday, at the racism, not the individual. More power to you.

Hugs,
Deb

 

[dragonfly411]

I think I finally got the closure to this that I really wanted. Thank you all for giving your opinions and comments. Yes, I actually needed closure because I was that upset. Racism bothers me very much. No, I'm not a prude, and I don't get upset over small jokes like "You're Asian, so you're a bad driver" or whatever, but calling someone the n-word with ill-intent, or calling someone a terrorist is serious business.

My friend shared with me that there are more people upset over those couple of hundred of ignorant tweets than there are people who tweeted. It makes me feel better.

http://imgur.com/a/tZQjc

I think your last sentence is very important to realize and remember. it is ignorance that speaks the way those people did, and it is intelligence that responded in outrage. Glad you found some closure!

 

[pandabee]

I think I finally got the closure to this that I really wanted. Thank you all for giving your opinions and comments. Yes, I actually needed closure because I was that upset. Racism bothers me very much. No, I'm not a prude, and I don't get upset over small jokes like "You're Asian, so you're a bad driver" or whatever, but calling someone the n-word with ill-intent, or calling someone a terrorist is serious business.

My friend shared with me that there are more people upset over those couple of hundred of ignorant tweets than there are people who tweeted. It makes me feel better.

http://imgur.com/a/tZQjc

That last statement makes me feel better too. I was not nearly as outraged as you were, but I did find it absolutely ridiculous that people were so indignant for the same reasons you had stated. Hopefully people can move past this and realize that the US is not supposed to be just like a Gap ad (or whatever other cookie cutter picture that had been previously referenced).

 

[makhro82]

Freke, I'm so sorry that happened to you and your dh. Unfortunately we still have a long way to go as a country and I am sad you feel that way about being an American but I can understand why you do.

What does being American mean to you?

That's a complicated and long answer. Briefly this is what it means to me:

The freedom to become anything I want to if I am ready able and willing to put the hard work necessary into becoming whatever I want to.To express my opinions freely without fear of repercussions.

I like your America, but unfortunately from a young age (around 4 or so) I realized that this is not the America anyone considered "other" lives in. I've just come to realize that in America we will never be color blind so I try not to let these kinds of things upset me anymore.

 

[missy]

Freke, I'm so sorry that happened to you and your dh. Unfortunately we still have a long way to go as a country and I am sad you feel that way about being an American but I can understand why you do.

What does being American mean to you?

That's a complicated and long answer. Briefly this is what it means to me:

The freedom to become anything I want to if I am ready able and willing to put the hard work necessary into becoming whatever I want to.To express my opinions freely without fear of repercussions.

I like your America, but unfortunately from a young age (around 4 or so) I realized that this is not the America anyone considered "other" lives in. I've just come to realize that in America we will never be color blind so I try not to let these kinds of things upset me anymore.

What country is color blind? I think the world still has a distance to go to get to that point. As well as being blind to any differences including sex, religion, weight, handicaps, etc etc etc. Bigotry exists in many forms and I wonder where in this world can you be free of it?

In any case look at how far we have come. I can appreciate where we used to be and where we are now. Sure we have a long way to go but we have traveled a long distance as well and change takes time, energy and people who are dedicated to working towards a better future. For all the people who hate living here and hate America I challenge you to make a difference and do something instead of just complaining. Or go somewhere you feel is better. I just am not sure where that might be.

Makhro82, you should let it upset you because only then can you work towards a positive change for a better world for your children, grandchildren and their children.

 

[makhro82]

Missy, no where in my post did I infer that I hated America so I don't know where that came from.

I don't think that society exist but to many America is this great melting pot and it simply is not true. We have a very ugly history when it comes to race, that's a fact.

And after more than 20 years of being routinely upset please don't tell me what my heart can handle. I've lived through enough things and known enough people to know that just because laws change and public perceptions shift that some people's hearts are still very much unchanged.

 

[missy]

Missy, no where in my post did I infer that I hated America so I don't know where that came from.

I don't think that society exist but to many America is this great melting pot and it simply is not true. We have a very ugly history when it comes to race, that's a fact.

And after more than 20 years of being routinely upset please don't tell me what my heart can handle. I've lived through enough things and known enough people to know that just because laws change and public perceptions shift that some people's hearts are still very much unchanged.

I'm sorry makhro82, I wasn't referring to you specifically when I wrote that. The last sentence where I addressed you was the only one specifically meant for you (and anyone else it might apply to). And I certainly didn't mean to tell you what your heart can handle. I am just saying that there has been big change for the positive and I am sorry you have been so disappointed in the past. Believe me I share many disappointments regarding prejudice and mean small minded and bigoted behavior from too many people to count. But I was sharing my thoughts and advice and sorry if I offended you. Not my intent. But we don't live in an ideal world and people are fallible and sometimes behave ignorantly. There are also just mean and stupid people all over this world. (And America is not the only country with a very ugly past. Don't get me started). But there are also amazing people who have helped moved us forward in so many ways.

 

[makhro82]

Missy, no where in my post did I infer that I hated America so I don't know where that came from.

I don't think that society exist but to many America is this great melting pot and it simply is not true. We have a very ugly history when it comes to race, that's a fact.

And after more than 20 years of being routinely upset please don't tell me what my heart can handle. I've lived through enough things and known enough people to know that just because laws change and public perceptions shift that some people's hearts are still very much unchanged.

I'm sorry makhro82, I wasn't referring to you specifically when I wrote that. The last sentence when I addressed you was the only one specifically meant for you (and anyone else it might apply to). And I certainly didn't mean to tell you what your heart can handle. I am just saying that there has been big change for the positive and I am sorry you have been so disappointed in the past. Believe me I share many disappointments regarding prejudice and mean small minded and bigoted behavior from too many people to count. But I was sharing my thoughts and advice and sorry if I offended you. Not my intent. But we don't live in an ideal world and people are fallible and sometimes behave ignorantly. There are also just mean and stupid people all over this world. (And America is not the only country with a very ugly past. Don't get me started). But there are also amazing people who have helped moved us forward in so many ways.

As you can see this is a sore subject for me. Growing up in the midwest with family directly from the south I have had way too many experiences with nasty people. In my over 30 years on this planet I've had drinks thrown on me, a gun pulled, been called nasty names, spat on, followed home by the police, etc. I just think too much credit is given for where we are today. I literally stay awake some nights wondering will my husband make it home tonight and if we ever have a son I don't know how I would cope...

 

[missy]

I totally get it makhro82 and I'm sending you virtual hugs...we're on the same side. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to leave a metropolitan urban environment. However I still wonder where is better? We have to move forward and upward and cliche as it might sound "be the change we want to see".
It's the only way for a healthy future for everyone.

 

[makhro82]

I totally get it makhro82 and I'm sending you virtual hugs...we're on the same side. It's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to leave a metropolitan urban environment. However I still wonder where is better? We have to move forward and upward and cliche as it might sound "be the change we want to see".
It's the only way for a healthy future for everyone.

My experiences living in CA were not always better sometimes worse actually lol. In many ways I try to be that change. I go to rallies, I speak to people, I study all kinds of things about race and ethnicity, etc. but I've just come to the realization that meaningful change is not happening anytime soon. Therefore, I just can't get upset about things on TV, tweets, internet forums, etc. because I I would literally lose what faith I have left in humanity. It does make me happy to see people who are concerned and want to see us move forward, so good job

 

[Logan Sapphire]

What does being American mean to you?

Honestly? As someone who was born and raised here, who speaks English as a first and main language, but has the appearance of an Asian person... I still feel that for other Americans to see you as American, you have to be white. It goes against what my definition of being American is, but experience with racism and other people's perception of my "color" has tainted my definition. It's hard to believe in something when all your experiences dictate otherwise.

I didn't always feel that way. I grew up feeling 100% American. I love my country, I was proud of the history, I love my freedom, and I was American first. When I was in jr. high, two men in San Diego walked out of a doorway and right into me. One apologized, the other one decided to comment that he didn't need to apologize because I wouldn't understand him anyway, and that chinks should open their eyes when they walk. That moment was seared into my mind, and is still incredibly vivid 21 years later. I encountered many more people like that since, some in California (what??!), and some in other states. (FL, NV, UT, CO, NY) Strangers I've met seemed awed and amazed when my mouth opens and English comes out. If I had a penny for every "but you have no accent" comment, I'd be rich.

So yeah, as much as I'd love to feel like an American, I don't. I'm missing one key component!

Same here, ForteKitty. I wasn't born here, but was adopted from Korea as an infant and only actually speak English. I also get the"you speak English so well" comment (or more like, "you speak English real good") and hated where I grew up because of all the racism tossed at my sister and me. She was actually physically pushed around by people in high school. Sorry to hear CA suffers from issues too- I'd always thought it seemed like Asians were fully integrated and accepted.

I lived in England for awhile and even there, had a person demand to see my passport b/c he didn't believe I was American- I guess an Asian person =/= American to him?

 

[AGBF]

Same here, ForteKitty. I wasn't born here, but was adopted from Korea as an infant and only actually speak English. I also get the"you speak English so well" comment (or more like, "you speak English real good") and hated where I grew up because of all the racism tossed at my sister and me. She was actually physically pushed around by people in high school.

I lived in England for awhile and even there, had a person demand to see my passport b/c he didn't believe I was American- I guess an Asian person =/= American to him?

You and I have talked a great deal about adoption in other threads in the past, LS, but other posters may not know it. I know you know my daughter was adopted at 7 weeks of age from Colombia in South America. She is now 21 and has studied a little Spanish in school, but frankly my Spanish (which is not great) is better than hers. People who work in McDonald's or cashiers at supermarkets sometimes address her in Spanish and it upsets her. She is actually proud to be "100% colombiana", but she doesn't like people to look at her and assume she she is Hispanic and Spanish speaking.

Deb