Not "Real American": Miss America 2014

[madelise]

I just happen to dislike Miss Davuluri...quite intensely.

Deb

Can you explain why? I'm not understanding. Do you know her? I don't know her.

 

[missy]

Ugh, this whole topic has gone haywire. I don't think anyone here is for racism, ignorance, hate in any form. It all stinks. I think some of us are saying that beauty pageants are demeaning to women and objectifies women etc. If you're for it great (it's your right to express your opinions) and if you're against it (I'm with you) great too. In any case we can all express our opinions hopefully without being dismissed or ridiculed here I would hope.

Madelise I agree. Those were horrible, ignorant and racist comments. I see examples of this almost every day unfortunately and it is just as upsetting every single time. We might have come a long way as a nation but we still have a long way to go. I don't think beauty pageants do anything positive for women at all but again that is just my opinion. I would much rather see women get scholarships based on their intellectual or talent based merit rather than appearance. My opinion.

ETA TO remove my comments to Sarah as I see she (wisely) edited her post.

 

[VRBeauty]

What I was reacting to is the fact that of course there are going to be haters and racist and bigoted people anonymously posting bigoted and racist comments on websites. There will also always be people who have not done well for themselves, for whatever reason, who choose to blame immigrants and other people who don't look like themselves for their circumstances. Yes that element is still out there, and if buzzfeed or cnn or fox or npr goes looking for it, they will find it. That doesn't mean that the views these people expressed represent most people.

By the way, I do believe our society is by and large still racist, in spite of the good intentions of probably the majority of Americans. Very surely people of Asian Indian descent are subject to that racism. I think we still need a good national discussion about racism. I'm not sure that holding our examples like this contributes much to the discussion though.

 

[cygnet]

I just happen to dislike Miss Davuluri...quite intensely.

Deb

Can you explain why? I'm not understanding. Do you know her? I don't know her.

Because of the fat comments re: Mallory Hagan? Though personally I don't find those gossip sites to be any more credible of a source than Buzzfeed, so I am not passing judgment on whether she actually said those things or not.

 

[ForteKitty]

AGBF, are you really comparing pageants to dog fighting?

Ummm...no. It's called a metaphor. You didn't mind when madelise compared the highly intelligent women to golf balls.

Deb

What?!? She didn't compare these highly intelligent women to golf balls, she compared the pageant it to a sport. A legal sport. You're the one who started comparing both of those to an illegal activity.

 

[SB621]

ETA TO remove my comments to Sarah as I see she (wisely) edited her post.

Sorry I didn't read the entire topic before I posted. And then I really thought about what I wrote and realized how stupid it was. I love me for me (with my kidneys). Then of course I read everyone's comments and thought this post did go haywire so I agree 100% with you Missy!

 

[missy]

ETA TO remove my comments to Sarah as I see she (wisely) edited her post.

Sorry I didn't read the entire topic before I posted. And then I really thought about what I wrote and realized how stupid it was. I love me for me (with my kidneys). Then of course I read everyone's comments and thought this post did go haywire so I agree 100% with you Missy!

I love you for you too Sarah! You are beautiful and smart and perfect just the way you are (((HUGS)))!

 

[madelise]

What does being American mean to you?

 

[SB621]

ETA TO remove my comments to Sarah as I see she (wisely) edited her post.

Sorry I didn't read the entire topic before I posted. And then I really thought about what I wrote and realized how stupid it was. I love me for me (with my kidneys). Then of course I read everyone's comments and thought this post did go haywire so I agree 100% with you Missy!

I love you for you too Sarah! You are beautiful and smart and perfect just the way you are (((HUGS)))!

JUST to clear- if I did have the choice between looking like a beauty queen or thai food. Thai food would win out every time. And thank you for the comments Missy! I think you are pretty fabulous too. I hope you join PinkJewel and myself for Thai if we come to the city in November.

 

[FrekeChild]

Madelise, your stories about you and your SO in his car rings so true for me.

My husband and I are both half Mexican and half white. I have light brown hair, blue eyes and fair skin - I look very white, he, on the other hand has darker skin, almost black hair and coffee colored eyes and looks more Mexican. We both tend to look younger than our age.

Roughly 7 years ago we were driving to Las Vegas from New Mexico in a rented car - a white Chrysler 300M, which used to look a lot like a Cadillac. We were pulled over for speeding, going 60 in a 45 (I should mention that there weren't any speed limit signs on that particular stretch of I-40) in Holbrook, Arizona by a white police officer. He took one look at us, had my husband get out of the car, go stand at the back of the car while he talked to me. He asked me a ton of questions, my age, my occupation, where I lived, how long I had known "the boy", where I was born, where we were from, where we were going, how long we'd be there, etc. Then he asked me the same questions about my husband. Then he proceeded to go to the back of the car with my husband and ask him all of those same questions about me, and about himself. He spent about an hour interrogating us before giving us a warning for the speeding, and saying nothing else about why he was questioning us.

The only conclusion we could come up with is that he suspected my husband of stealing the car, kidnapping me and driving through AZ. But I'm pretty sure that if my husband looked more white than Mexican, we probably would have just gotten a warning.

 

[FrekeChild]

What does being American mean to you?

Not all that much anymore. Lately it's made me really sad.

 

[missy]

Freke, I'm so sorry that happened to you and your dh. Unfortunately we still have a long way to go as a country and I am sad you feel that way about being an American but I can understand why you do.

What does being American mean to you?

That's a complicated and long answer. Briefly this is what it means to me:

The freedom to become anything I want to if I am ready able and willing to put the hard work necessary into becoming whatever I want to.
To express my opinions freely without fear of repercussions.
To accept and embrace differing points of view because it is the right of every person to share their beliefs whether or not we agree with them.
Being an American means believing that all people are equal and that when the rights of any one person are threatened everyone's rights are threatened.

It also means becoming an American citizen proud of this country though one might not agree with its politicians/politics. That's another great thing about being an American. We can openly and publicly disagree with elected officials and not go to jail for it or be punished in any way. That is our right, our freedom as is it our right to vote and try to institute change for the better.

I could go on but for everyone's sake I won't.

There are many great countries and I am in no way diminishing them by saying what I love about being an American btw...just wanted to put that out there. I respect all cultures and countries and people.

 

[ForteKitty]

What does being American mean to you?

Honestly? As someone who was born and raised here, who speaks English as a first and main language, but has the appearance of an Asian person... I still feel that for other Americans to see you as American, you have to be white. It goes against what my definition of being American is, but experience with racism and other people's perception of my "color" has tainted my definition. It's hard to believe in something when all your experiences dictate otherwise.

I didn't always feel that way. I grew up feeling 100% American. I love my country, I was proud of the history, I love my freedom, and I was American first. When I was in jr. high, two men in San Diego walked out of a doorway and right into me. One apologized, the other one decided to comment that he didn't need to apologize because I wouldn't understand him anyway, and that chinks should open their eyes when they walk. That moment was seared into my mind, and is still incredibly vivid 21 years later. I encountered many more people like that since, some in California (what??!), and some in other states. (FL, NV, UT, CO, NY) Strangers I've met seemed awed and amazed when my mouth opens and English comes out. If I had a penny for every "but you have no accent" comment, I'd be rich.

So yeah, as much as I'd love to feel like an American, I don't. I'm missing one key component!

 

[missy]

What does being American mean to you?

Honestly? As someone who was born and raised here, who speaks English as a first and main language, but has the appearance of an Asian person... I still feel that for other Americans to see you as American, you have to be white. It goes against what my definition of being American is, but experience with racism and other people's perception of my "color" has tainted my definition. It's hard to believe in something when all your experiences dictate otherwise.

I didn't always feel that way. I grew up feeling 100% American. I love my country, I was proud of the history, I love my freedom, and I was American first. When I was in jr. high, two men in San Diego walked out of a doorway and right into me. One apologized, the other one decided to comment that he didn't need to apologize because I wouldn't understand him anyway, and that chinks should open their eyes when they walk. That moment was seared into my mind, and is still incredibly vivid 21 years later. I encountered many more people like that since, some in California (what??!), and some in other states. (FL, NV, UT, CO, NY) Strangers I've met seemed awed and amazed when my mouth opens and English comes out. If I had a penny for every "but you have no accent" comment, I'd be rich.

So yeah, as much as I'd love to feel like an American, I don't. I'm missing one key component!

That's horrible fortekitty. There are so many ignorant people in the world and I am very sorry about that awful experience. That would stay with me forever too I am sure. Not all people feel that way though and you are just as American as anyone else who is American and don't give them the power to make you feel any other way. I encounter racism almost every day. Some of it more insidious than the overt racism you have encountered. I am white but jewish and have had plenty of unpleasant experiences with racism. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and sometimes makes me feel sick to my stomach. But I also know that this is not an issue unique to America. It occurs everywhere. Don't let the stupid and ignorant and mean people ruin the way you feel about your country. (((Hugs))) to you and Freke and everyone else who has to deal with this.

 

[AGBF]

I just happen to dislike Miss Davuluri...quite intensely.

Can you explain why? I'm not understanding. Do you know her? I don't know her.

Because of the fat comments re: Mallory Hagan? Though personally I don't find those gossip sites to be any more credible of a source than Buzzfeed, so I am not passing judgment on whether she actually said those things or not.

Yes, because of the fat comments! And the "racist" comments she is accused of making about Miss Hagan as well. And you have a right not to find the sites that mentioned them more credible than Buzzfeed. People also have the "right" not to find the Holocaust credible. I have to ask, however, if the information about Miss Davaluri's insults is untrue, why did Miss Davuluri apologize for what she said?

AGBF

 

[cygnet]

And you have a right not to find the sites that mentioned them more credible than Buzzfeed. People also have the "right" not to find the Holocaust credible.

Excuse me, but what are you trying to say, exactly?


*edited for quote formatting

 

[madelise]

I have to ask, however, if the information about Miss Davaluri's insults is untrue, why did Miss Davuluri apologize for what she said?

AGBF

She didn't apologize for what she said. She apologized that the comments were made and clarified that she was not the one to say them. She addressed a rumor. That's what people do when they're accused of doing things.

 

[ForteKitty]

I just happen to dislike Miss Davuluri...quite intensely.

Can you explain why? I'm not understanding. Do you know her? I don't know her.

Because of the fat comments re: Mallory Hagan? Though personally I don't find those gossip sites to be any more credible of a source than Buzzfeed, so I am not passing judgment on whether she actually said those things or not.

Yes, because of the fat comments! And the "racist" comments she is accused of making about Miss Hagan as well. And you have a right not to find the sites that mentioned them more credible than Buzzfeed. People also have the "right" not to find the Holocaust credible. I have to ask, however, if the information about Miss Davaluri's insults is untrue, why did Miss Davuluri apologize for what she said?

AGBF

AGBF, the link you provided earlier says that Miss Davaluri's friend was the one who made the racist comment. Miss Davaluri was allegedly heard making the fat comment.

Clip from article: "A friend of Davuluri was supposedly heard making racist remarks, and Davuluri is allegedly heard on the tape blasting Miss America, 'Mallory's fat as [bleep].'

She also apologized for what people said in her room. She didn't apologize for what she said.

Is there another article that says otherwise?

 

[AGBF]

I just happen to dislike Miss Davuluri...quite intensely.

Can you explain why? I'm not understanding. Do you know her? I don't know her.

Because of the fat comments re: Mallory Hagan? Though personally I don't find those gossip sites to be any more credible of a source than Buzzfeed, so I am not passing judgment on whether she actually said those things or not.

Yes, because of the fat comments! And the "racist" comments she is accused of making about Miss Hagan as well. And you have a right not to find the sites that mentioned them more credible than Buzzfeed. People also have the "right" not to find the Holocaust credible. I have to ask, however, if the information about Miss Davaluri's insults is untrue, why did Miss Davuluri apologize for what she said?

AGBF, the link you provided earlier says that Miss Davaluri's friend was the one who made the racist comment. Miss Davaluri was allegedly heard making the fat comment.

Clip from article: "A friend of Davuluri was supposedly heard making racist remarks, and Davuluri is allegedly heard on the tape blasting Miss America, 'Mallory's fat as [bleep].'

She also apologized for what people said in her room. She didn't apologize for what she said.

Is there another article that says otherwise?

I don't think so. I think she did not apologize for saying Miss Hagan was fat and she did not apologize for partying with racist friends. She only apologized for what her racist friends said. She said that it must have been "hurtful" to Miss Hagan.

Do I have it correctly now?

AGBF

 

[AGBF]

This doesn't say anything different, but it is well written.

Another link...http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/miss-america-2014-won-by-foul-mouthed-miss-new-york-nina-davuluri/

AGBF

 

[ForteKitty]

Wait, it was recorded through a wall? Not by someone at the party? Hmm...

 

[cygnet]

I'm still trying to understand why it's being implied that choosing not to pass judgment on someone based on something reported in a tabloid is on the same level of crazy as being a Holocaust denier.

 

[TooPatient]

I've been reading comments and just have to say -- WHO CARES!

Meaning -- Why are we having contests based on appearance? Why is it okay to judge them so superficially on what is skin deep? Why is it that anyone even notices that someone is "white" or Asian or Hispanic or anything else?

An American is an American. A person is a person. Period.

"A" came home from school the other day confused because they'd handed out papers for the parents. Those papers provided a break-down by race, religion, country of origin and more. She couldn't understand why it matters.
I was stuck trying to explain to a (then) 13 year old that some people think this stuff is important.

Who really cares.


The stuff underneath is all that is important and we won't ever improve beyond this point as a society if we can't get past that. It doesn't matter if you are "pretty" or "ugly" or "fat" or "thin" or anything else. It matters who you are as a person and the choices you make as an individual.



ETA: Which is not to say that I don't think people should be able to embrace their family's background or culture or anything else. I am ALL in support of that. I just find it crazy to make assumptions based on looks.

 

[athenaworth]

nm

 

[AGBF]

Dog fighting is illegal and violent. The dogs don't choose to participate-- their wretched owners do.
These women are competing for a title and scholarships. Nothing illegal, nothing violent.
And I did not say women are like golf balls. Jesus Christ, you know how to twist my words.

I really hate it when people totally miss my point...and you did. How many times do I have to say that dogfighting was a metaphor? You compared beauty pageants to golf, which is totally innocuous. I wanted to make the point that some people do not think that they are harmless, like golf, and that simply not watching them should be an option. I wanted to make the point that some people think that they are harmful to society and should not be ignored. So I chose something else that everyone (with any sense) would agree should not be ignored by socially responsible people.

Instead of focusing on the "sport" I chose (dog fighting) and comparing it ad nauseum to beauty pageants, focus on the concept!

Some posters here are saying that beauty pageants, like racism, are bad for society!!!

AGBF

 

[AGBF]

I'm still trying to understand why it's being implied that choosing not to pass judgment on someone based on something reported in a tabloid is on the same level of crazy as being a Holocaust denier.

It's not on the same level. My point was that one person's not believing a certain fact does not mean the fact is not true. I am spread a bit thin at the moment. I cannot keep up with all the comments directed at me, most of which were written by people who misunderstood what I had written first and then argued vehemently against what they perceived to be my positions second.

That takes some disentangling by me.

AGBF

 

[athenaworth]

Dog fighting is illegal and violent. The dogs don't choose to participate-- their wretched owners do.
These women are competing for a title and scholarships. Nothing illegal, nothing violent.
And I did not say women are like golf balls. Jesus Christ, you know how to twist my words.

I really hate it when people totally miss my point...and you did. How many times do I have to say that dogfighting was a metaphor? You compared beauty pageants to golf, which is totally innocuous. I wanted to make the point that some people do not think that they are harmless, like golf, and that simply not watching them should be an option. I wanted to make the point that some people think that they are harmful to society and should not be ignored. So I chose something else that everyone (with any sense) would agree should not be ignored by socially responsible people.

Instead of focusing on the "sport" I chose (dog fighting) and comparing it ad nauseum to beauty pageants, focus on the concept!

Some posters here are saying that beauty pageants, like racism, are bad for society!!!

AGBF

So it’s not OK for anyone to misconstrue you’re “metaphor” but it’s totally OK for you to say that Madelise compared women to golf balls?

FWIW - I get the feeling that all of this controversy is being hyped up by the pageant promoters, which is sick, but being an ex-pageant girl myself I know that it’s all about the money, and they’ll do anything they can to get more money. Not to say there isn’t rampant racism in the U.S., I just get the feeling that they're loving all of this "attention."

 

[cygnet]

I'm still trying to understand why it's being implied that choosing not to pass judgment on someone based on something reported in a tabloid is on the same level of crazy as being a Holocaust denier.

It's not on the same level. My point was that one person's not believing a certain fact does not mean the fact is not true. I am spread a bit thin at the moment. I cannot keep up with all the comments directed at me, most of which were written by people who misunderstood what I had written first and then argued vehemently against what they perceived to be my positions second.

That takes some disentangling by me.

AGBF

I never explicitly said I didn't believe it, I said I was choosing not to pass judgment on the incident given that the report did not come from a reliable source nor did the "evidence" sound conclusive. I generally prefer not to judge people based on gossip or perpetuate rumor spreading.

It sounds like maybe you are having some trouble communicating clearly if so many people are having difficulty understanding what you are trying to say.

 

[AGBF]

It sounds like maybe you are having some trouble communicating clearly if so many people are having difficulty understanding what you are trying to say.

Apparently so.

 

[AGBF]

So it’s not OK for anyone to misconstrue you’re “metaphor” but it’s totally OK for you to say that Madelise compared women to golf balls?

If one is watching golf on television instead of watching a beauty pageant, what is one watching?

One is watching a golf ball fly.

I stand by that.

AGBF