Mom punishes 7 y.o. with hot sauce and cold showers

[packrat]

I can't watch the video. My friend makes her kids put vinegar in their mouths. I think just for a few seconds and then they spit it out. I've never tried it, tho it seems to work for them. Hot sauce, no way would I do that. And a cold shower? A guy I dated years ago did that to me once when he got mad at me-forced me into the shower fully clothed and kept me in there under icy cold water. It was such a shock to my system I thought I was going to pass out. And it wasn't like a blast of ice water and then you do the inhaley gaspy thing and it's done, no, this was prolonged until I couldn't catch my breath and was shaking uncontrollably. I would report her as well.

BEG-I read A Child Called It (and the others, is there 2 more after that? It's been so long I can't remember) and had to force myself to finish. I'd go sit in the bathroom b/c I thought I was going to vomit. Shake so hard I couldn't hold the book and sob until I thought my heart would break. Just sickening the things people are capable of doing to kids.

ETA: my brother and I had to brush our teeth with dish soap a couple times when we were little.

 

[Circe]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

This is disgusting.

Anyone read A Child Called It? That's what it reminds me of.

I thought the same thing when I watched the show yesterday.

You had to watch the show to really understand this situation. The video shown was filmed by her 10 year old daughter. I'm sorry, but if your 10 year old thinks something is so amiss that it should be filmed, there's something wrong!

The mother claimed to be at the end of her rope with her "damaged"-her words-adopted Russian son. She mentioned he had all sorts of psychological issues relating to his early childhood, and lied and stole food, etc, so she had to punish his bad behavior. Like the attachment disorder was justification for her actions. She was so so cold on the stage talking about it. I got a creepy sociopath vibe from her and I 100% think she knew exactly what she was doing and will continue to do this....sickening.

 

[TravelingGal]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

Amelia is now much more at the age of reasoning. She hit me ages ago and I smacked her hand, and she didn't do it again. Then after several months at preschool and observing kids hitting (her classmate came up to me and smacked me as I walked into the class), one day, she came up to me and smacked me, HARD. And it hurt.

I told her that. I asked her if she wanted to see how much hitting hurt. Then I asked her to turn around and gave her one, very firm smack on her behind. She wasn't wearing diapers anymore so she felt it. And she said "OW!" I asked, did it hurt, and between tears, she said yes. I said, that hurt mommy too, so please, do not hit. It does not feel nice!

She hasn't hit me since. Although I suppose you could say this is using a combination of reasoning and spanking.

 

[vintagelover229]

I had posted earlier in this thread, but decided to delete it because it was to personal. I just want to say first, I didn't watch the show but I did watch a few short clips and read the article. And 2nd, if you haven't ever dealt with an older adopted child you shouldn't be judging this woman. While I agree her methods weren't the right way to handle the situation, if you have never dealt with a child of abuse/neglect, who was in an orphanage, or in foster care, you have NO CLUE on how to handle these children. They can be hell raisers, even with therapy, meds, and even if the parents are just plan GOOD PARENTS and GOOD PEOPLE children from this type of background can almost be impossible to raise and get though to.

This coming from someone who WENT though it, was diagnosed with the same issues that the boy has, and had pretty good parents who tired to handle me. It is no walk in the park and I think screening for families and proper training and all information should be dealt with prior to the adoption so parents know the best way to handle a child of this nature.

And NO I wasn't a horrible kid. I had a 4.0 GPA, was accepted into a private Jr symphony for the violin, and started in many sports. But I also was IMPOSSIBLE to handle. I'm not saying my adopted parents handled everything the way they should have (needless to say, we still don't have the greatest relationship because of a the way handled things, which IMO weren't child abuse, but in my mind, it was almost worse sending me off and allowing me to think I was crazy when clearly, I wasn't) but never the less, what the woman did was wrong, she realizes it's NOT the correct way to handle the child and she is asking for help (for the better of her family and for her child).

ETA: My bio family spanked me and I came out just fine. I got spankings until I was 10, and at that time I went into foster care. Kids coming from abuse/neglect homes are very very difficult to deal with, even WHEN you have the proper tools to help you. Which CLEARLY this woman didn't have. She's working towards getting the tools now, so if in a year her methods are still this way, feel free to flame her all you want. But she still sought help even knowing what kind of reaction she was going to receive.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Circe]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

Amelia is now much more at the age of reasoning. She hit me ages ago and I smacked her hand, and she didn't do it again. Then after several months at preschool and observing kids hitting (her classmate came up to me and smacked me as I walked into the class), one day, she came up to me and smacked me, HARD. And it hurt.

I told her that. I asked her if she wanted to see how much hitting hurt. Then I asked her to turn around and gave her one, very firm smack on her behind. She wasn't wearing diapers anymore so she felt it. And she said "OW!" I asked, did it hurt, and between tears, she said yes. I said, that hurt mommy too, so please, do not hit. It does not feel nice!

She hasn't hit me since. Although I suppose you could say this is using a combination of reasoning and spanking.

No, that strikes me (as it were) as being entirely the correct response: it's a demonstration of why hitting is bad, as opposed to the bizarre illogic of beating kids for random infractions, which, conversely, only indicates that it's right to hit ... so long as you've got the upper hand in the power dynamic.

 

[TravelingGal]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

Amelia is now much more at the age of reasoning. She hit me ages ago and I smacked her hand, and she didn't do it again. Then after several months at preschool and observing kids hitting (her classmate came up to me and smacked me as I walked into the class), one day, she came up to me and smacked me, HARD. And it hurt.

I told her that. I asked her if she wanted to see how much hitting hurt. Then I asked her to turn around and gave her one, very firm smack on her behind. She wasn't wearing diapers anymore so she felt it. And she said "OW!" I asked, did it hurt, and between tears, she said yes. I said, that hurt mommy too, so please, do not hit. It does not feel nice!

She hasn't hit me since. Although I suppose you could say this is using a combination of reasoning and spanking.

No, that strikes me (as it were) as being entirely the correct response: it's a demonstration of why hitting is bad, as opposed to the bizarre illogic of beating kids for random infractions, which, conversely, only indicates that it's right to hit ... so long as you've got the upper hand in the power dynamic.

Ha, that's true. No secret around here that I think spanking is OK, and that I also think 95% of people don't know how to spank properly. Generally I agree that there are so many more effective ways to discipline that it's generally unnecessary...not to mention that if you do it too often, it completely loses effectiveness. It's more of punctuation - an attention getter, than anything.

There's a spanking thread (kids, not adults) around here that's an interesting one, so I won't go into it too much, except to say that when done correctly, I don't think teaches kids that hitting others is OK.

 

[dragonfly411]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

Amelia is now much more at the age of reasoning. She hit me ages ago and I smacked her hand, and she didn't do it again. Then after several months at preschool and observing kids hitting (her classmate came up to me and smacked me as I walked into the class), one day, she came up to me and smacked me, HARD. And it hurt.

I told her that. I asked her if she wanted to see how much hitting hurt. Then I asked her to turn around and gave her one, very firm smack on her behind. She wasn't wearing diapers anymore so she felt it. And she said "OW!" I asked, did it hurt, and between tears, she said yes. I said, that hurt mommy too, so please, do not hit. It does not feel nice!

She hasn't hit me since. Although I suppose you could say this is using a combination of reasoning and spanking.

This to me is proper punishment. It helps her to understand WHY it is a bad thing, and demonstrates said damage upon here. Mind you this would not work in very severe instances, but I think this is well handled.


I do think punishment all depends on the individual. My parents took the same approach at punishing my sister as they did me and it didn't phase her. She really needed a more firm hand. I was just naturally a fearful and easily humbled child. My sister is a vixen, and in her adult years now has a quick attitude and a nasty little tongue. I love her to death but sometimes I just want to ask her who exactly she thinks she is.... b/c really she's an insignificant speck in this world... who thinks she is as good as the Queen.

 

[TravelingGal]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

Amelia is now much more at the age of reasoning. She hit me ages ago and I smacked her hand, and she didn't do it again. Then after several months at preschool and observing kids hitting (her classmate came up to me and smacked me as I walked into the class), one day, she came up to me and smacked me, HARD. And it hurt.

I told her that. I asked her if she wanted to see how much hitting hurt. Then I asked her to turn around and gave her one, very firm smack on her behind. She wasn't wearing diapers anymore so she felt it. And she said "OW!" I asked, did it hurt, and between tears, she said yes. I said, that hurt mommy too, so please, do not hit. It does not feel nice!

She hasn't hit me since. Although I suppose you could say this is using a combination of reasoning and spanking.

This to me is proper punishment. It helps her to understand WHY it is a bad thing, and demonstrates said damage upon here. Mind you this would not work in very severe instances, but I think this is well handled.

There are many that would say what I did shows kids it's OK to hit. I know many, many parents who will not hit their child even though their kids go crazy and hit everyone else because they say it will only give them permission to do it more. This drives me bonkers (especially when I get hit by the child) because sometimes kids don't know what they're doing. They need to be shown how it feels. Amelia has gotten poked by me and her hair tugged. And lightly bit, once. She does none of these things anymore.

Ack, don't get me started.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I had posted earlier in this thread, but decided to delete it because it was to personal. I just want to say first, I didn't watch the show but I did watch a few short clips and read the article. And 2nd, if you haven't ever dealt with an older adopted child you shouldn't be judging this woman. While I agree her methods weren't the right way to handle the situation, if you have never dealt with a child of abuse/neglect, who was in an orphanage, or in foster care, you have NO CLUE on how to handle these children. They can be hell raisers, even with therapy, meds, and even if the parents are just plan GOOD PARENTS and GOOD PEOPLE children from this type of background can almost be impossible to raise and get though to.

This coming from someone who WENT though it, was diagnosed with the same issues that the boy has, and had pretty good parents who tired to handle me. It is no walk in the park and I think screening for families and proper training and all information should be dealt with prior to the adoption so parents know the best way to handle a child of this nature.

And NO I wasn't a horrible kid. I had a 4.0 GPA, was accepted into a private Jr symphony for the violin, and started in many sports. But I also was IMPOSSIBLE to handle. I'm not saying my adopted parents handled everything the way they should have (needless to say, we still don't have the greatest relationship because of a the way handled things, which IMO weren't child abuse, but in my mind, it was almost worse sending me off and allowing me to think I was crazy when clearly, I wasn't) but never the less, what the woman did was wrong, she realizes it's NOT the correct way to handle the child and she is asking for help (for the better of her family and for her child).

ETA: My bio family spanked me and I came out just fine. I got spankings until I was 10, and at that time I went into foster care. Kids coming from abuse/neglect homes are very very difficult to deal with, even WHEN you have the proper tools to help you. Which CLEARLY this woman didn't have. She's working towards getting the tools now, so if in a year her methods are still this way, feel free to flame her all you want. But she still sought help even knowing what kind of reaction she was going to receive.

Edited for clarity.

First of all, I'm sorry you had such a hard time as a child, and I wish it hadn't happened to you. I'm glad you seem to be a well-adjusted adult now.

Second, I agree with you. It is impossible to understand how foster children act and feel unless you have experienced it. However, I also agree that her methods are SORELY mistaken. The fact that her 10 year old daughter clearly understood this and the mother didn't, speaks volumes to me about what sort of person this woman is. Who knows what the daughter went through?

 

[TravelingGal]

OK, just tried to watch the video. Couldn't get past when she took him into the bathroom. Sorry, can't watch this stuff!

 

[vintagelover229]

MP: Thank you. I'm doing great now, and I'm grateful for the things I went though now, because had I not, I don't think I would be who I am today.

My point in sharing wasn't to get sympathy. It's to raise awareness that adoption isn't right for everyone, and it's a very difficult task, esp once started. If she were to keep just one, and get rid of the child it would do damage that is almost not repairable. The woman know's what she is doing is the wrong way to handle things, but sometimes, you just are at your wits end and have NO CLUE what to do. She asked for help (although she should have done so sooner) she is at least trying, which I will tell you is WAY more than what most adopted families do.

I wont tell you how heart breaking it is even at 15 to see 8-12 year old boys in lock up because their adopted parents decided they no longer could handle them (there was an adopted side to lock up). What made it worse is now those same kids are exposed to older kids who DO have criminal issues and they are accepted by them and easily influenced. I met so many young boys that I wish I could have helped. They'll be find one minute and the next they'll be throwing a chair through a window, biting staff members, screaming at the top of their lungs, cursing, kicking and all around going bonkers. Then they'll draw you a picture with a heart and tell you they love you.

These kids are messed up, at no fault of their own. And going to families that don't know how to help them, or have any idea on how to even raise a "normal" child does more damage most of the time then if they had never been removed in the first place.

It is NOT a walk in the park, and many adopted parents are told there may be some adjustment issues, but they don't realize just how hard and difficult it can be. You need VERY mature parents, very LOVING people and very accepting and understanding parents to raise these type of children. I've met many parents of adopted parents and let me tell you, many of the way they handled their child after foster care/adoption caused more issues than the damage done before hand.

 

[kennedy]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

Amelia is now much more at the age of reasoning. She hit me ages ago and I smacked her hand, and she didn't do it again. Then after several months at preschool and observing kids hitting (her classmate came up to me and smacked me as I walked into the class), one day, she came up to me and smacked me, HARD. And it hurt.

I told her that. I asked her if she wanted to see how much hitting hurt. Then I asked her to turn around and gave her one, very firm smack on her behind. She wasn't wearing diapers anymore so she felt it. And she said "OW!" I asked, did it hurt, and between tears, she said yes. I said, that hurt mommy too, so please, do not hit. It does not feel nice!

She hasn't hit me since. Although I suppose you could say this is using a combination of reasoning and spanking.

No, that strikes me (as it were) as being entirely the correct response: it's a demonstration of why hitting is bad, as opposed to the bizarre illogic of beating kids for random infractions, which, conversely, only indicates that it's right to hit ... so long as you've got the upper hand in the power dynamic.

But is it really necessary to hit your child in order to demonstrate that hitting is bad? Isn't it possible that words (explaining what it felt like physically and emotionally to be hit) would have been equally effective without running the risk of teaching your child that it's okay to hit as long as you're proving a point? Seems to me if hitting is bad, it's bad no matter who's doing it and regardless of the well-intentioned logic behind it. I guess I've never been able to understand how spanking doesn't instill in kids a fear of their parents. That said, I suppose some parents would like their kids to fear them.

 

[TravelingGal]

I'm ... a little horrified at this thread. None of this would ever even occur to me. My mom spanked me once or twice when I was little (like, say, for running into traffic when I was two or three, and too young to understand the rational explanation for it), and she slapped me the first time she caught me smoking at age 11 (I didn't smoke again until I was a legal adult, and, frankly, the slap made a lot less of an impression than the fact that she took all of my books away for a month).

I think physical punishment on children of an age to use reason is barbaric: the only thing it teaches is that people who are bigger can use force on people who are smaller. What kind of a lesson is that? And that's just just sticking to things like spanking ... I am actually a little nauseated by the idea of prying a kid's mouth open like a kitten being wormed. There's something so invasive about that, particularly if we're talking about kids on the verge of adolescence. How this doesn't qualify as abuse, I cannot even fathom.

Amelia is now much more at the age of reasoning. She hit me ages ago and I smacked her hand, and she didn't do it again. Then after several months at preschool and observing kids hitting (her classmate came up to me and smacked me as I walked into the class), one day, she came up to me and smacked me, HARD. And it hurt.

I told her that. I asked her if she wanted to see how much hitting hurt. Then I asked her to turn around and gave her one, very firm smack on her behind. She wasn't wearing diapers anymore so she felt it. And she said "OW!" I asked, did it hurt, and between tears, she said yes. I said, that hurt mommy too, so please, do not hit. It does not feel nice!

She hasn't hit me since. Although I suppose you could say this is using a combination of reasoning and spanking.

No, that strikes me (as it were) as being entirely the correct response: it's a demonstration of why hitting is bad, as opposed to the bizarre illogic of beating kids for random infractions, which, conversely, only indicates that it's right to hit ... so long as you've got the upper hand in the power dynamic.

But is it really necessary to hit your child in order to demonstrate that hitting is bad? Isn't it possible that words (explaining what it felt like physically and emotionally to be hit) would have been equally effective without running the risk of teaching your child that it's okay to hit as long as you're proving a point? Seems to me if hitting is bad, it's bad no matter who's doing it and regardless of the well-intentioned logic behind it. I guess I've never been able to understand how spanking doesn't instill in kids a fear of their parents. That said, I suppose some parents would like their kids to fear them.

First of all, I'm a believer that healthy fear is a good thing. Maybe some would disagree. I also think the fear you're talking about can be accomplished without ever hitting the child.

Again, there is a spanking thread around here, but in a nutshell, there is a difference between spanking and beating. Beating instills fear. Spanking does not. Beating is done out of frustration, even if it's just a smack. Spanking is controlled.

My opinion is that trying to explain to a young child in lots of words why physically and emotionally hitting is bad isn't all that effective. Because they don't get it. And unfortunately, kids start the hitting thing when they are very young. But they can understand that something is "Owie" and they can understand when you hit them, that it was what they just did to you and that it's owie too. And they can understand "no" and make the correlation between the two.

Now, if you have a young child who can understand that hitting is bad simply by having it explained how it feels emotionally and physically to be hit AND a child who would deduct that hitting is OK as long as you're proving a point, then...your child is smarter than mine.

 

[TravelingGal]

btw, I should demonstrate with the hair tugging incident, that reasoning doesn't always work. My daughter was speaking and old enough at the time to technically be reasoned with. I was holding her in my arms and the incident went like this.

Amelia: (tugs hair, giggles.)

Me: Amelia, please do not do that, it is not nice to pull hair.

Amelia (tugs again. thinks it's funny. laughs again.)

Me: Ow! Amelia, that's owie. It hurts mommy. Do not pull hair, please!

Amelia (looking a bit more unsure, but reaches out to pull again.)

Me: Amelia - it hurts. Let me show you (tugs Amelia's hair gently but firmly.)

Amelia: Ow mommy!

Me: Do you like it?

Amelia: No!

Me: Then don't pull mommy's hair. I don't like it!

Amelia: Sowee mommy.

And that was the end of it.

 

[anchor31]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

This.
I don't know about the US, but in Qc policemen and women in training have to be sprayed in the face with pepperspray before they can carry and use it. I think anyone who intends to use corporeal punishment on children should do it to themselves the exact same way they intend on children, see what it feels like. I think some people might reconsider.

 

[TravelingGal]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

This.
I don't know about the US, but in Qc policemen and women in training have to be sprayed in the face with pepperspray before they can carry and use it. I think anyone who intends to use corporeal punishment on children should do it to themselves the exact same way they intend on children, see what it feels like. I think some people might reconsider.

My brother is an officer, and he had to go through that too. But it's not all because they want you to "feel what it's like" although that's part of it. They spray you and then you have to fight them off. It's because IRL, the person you're battling can turn it against you, so you'd better be able to deal with it.

 

[dragonfly411]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

This.
I don't know about the US, but in Qc policemen and women in training have to be sprayed in the face with pepperspray before they can carry and use it. I think anyone who intends to use corporeal punishment on children should do it to themselves the exact same way they intend on children, see what it feels like. I think some people might reconsider.

Anchor - what about the situation above, where the child has already inflicted that pain on the parent?

 

[jaysonsmom]

My kids are 8 and 6, and either I was blessed with relatively "good" kids, or I'm a softy, and never deemed any behavior awful enough to warrant such extreme punishment. We usually punish by sending them to their room to think about what they did wrong. When they are ready to apologize and behave (this takes tremendous courage) they come out, and do so.

My husband has smacked them on their hands in the past, but I told him that I thought it only teaches them that hitting is okay, and it's not what I want them to learn. Again, I think I have pretty good kids (Knock on wood). They have never had meltdowns, screaming fits, or violent outburst of any kind....I may think differently if I had demonic offspring \

My kids and I watched an episode of the Supernanny once where the dad punished with hotsauce, and my kids thought it was hilarious! They told me: "Mommy, that would not work on us because we're KOREAN (they're only half) and we LOVE spicy stuff!". In fact, my kids have been eating eggs with tons os Tabasco since they were toddlers.

 

[TravelingGal]

My kids are 8 and 6, and either I was blessed with relatively "good" kids, or I'm a softy, and never deemed any behavior awful enough to warrant such extreme punishment. We usually punish by sending them to their room to think about what they did wrong. When they are ready to apologize and behave (this takes tremendous courage) they come out, and do so.

My husband has smacked them on their hands in the past, but I told him that I thought it only teaches them that hitting is okay, and it's not what I want them to learn. Again, I think I have pretty good kids (Knock on wood). They have never had meltdowns, screaming fits, or violent outburst of any kind....I may think differently if I had demonic offspring \

My kids and I watched an episode of the Supernanny once where the dad punished with hotsauce, and my kids thought it was hilarious! They told me: "Mommy, that would not work on us because we're KOREAN (they're only half) and we LOVE spicy stuff!". In fact, my kids have been eating eggs with tons os Tabasco since they were toddlers.

Hahaha...I am hoping Amelia likes hot stuff, but not sure it's going to happen.

Interesting to see where our own upbringing influences our parenting styles. I can't think that a kid saying sorry to come out of their room takes tremendous courage. When I was a kid, my mom did make me go into my room a couple of times...which was great. I read, kicked back, and just did whatever I wanted. Then when I was bored enough and wanted to come out, I said sorry.

TGuy says putting Amelia in her room will not be a consequence....his mom was put her in her room and knew it was no big deal, so she always put TGuy in the corner of whatever room the family was in. He WISHED he could escape to his room and just mess around, even if it was just to lie in his own bed. So he thinks that's too lenient of a consequence. I'm actually still debating it for later (because she won't have much in her room in the way of fun stuff, like TV's, gameboys or whatever), but since TGuy feels strongly about it, we probably won't use it. I NEVER got the concept of being grounded when I was a kid...other white kids always seemed to get that punishment, and I thought...why is hanging out in your room a big deal? But I guess some of them really hated it!

 

[dragonfly411]

My kids are 8 and 6, and either I was blessed with relatively "good" kids, or I'm a softy, and never deemed any behavior awful enough to warrant such extreme punishment. We usually punish by sending them to their room to think about what they did wrong. When they are ready to apologize and behave (this takes tremendous courage) they come out, and do so.

My husband has smacked them on their hands in the past, but I told him that I thought it only teaches them that hitting is okay, and it's not what I want them to learn. Again, I think I have pretty good kids (Knock on wood). They have never had meltdowns, screaming fits, or violent outburst of any kind....I may think differently if I had demonic offspring \

My kids and I watched an episode of the Supernanny once where the dad punished with hotsauce, and my kids thought it was hilarious! They told me: "Mommy, that would not work on us because we're KOREAN (they're only half) and we LOVE spicy stuff!". In fact, my kids have been eating eggs with tons os Tabasco since they were toddlers.

Hahaha...I am hoping Amelia likes hot stuff, but not sure it's going to happen.

Interesting to see where our own upbringing influences our parenting styles. I can't think that a kid saying sorry to come out of their room takes tremendous courage. When I was a kid, my mom did make me go into my room a couple of times...which was great. I read, kicked back, and just did whatever I wanted. Then when I was bored enough and wanted to come out, I said sorry.

TGuy says putting Amelia in her room will not be a consequence....his mom was put her in her room and knew it was no big deal, so she always put TGuy in the corner of whatever room the family was in. He WISHED he could escape to his room and just mess around, even if it was just to lie in his own bed. So he thinks that's too lenient of a consequence. I'm actually still debating it for later (because she won't have much in her room in the way of fun stuff, like TV's, gameboys or whatever), but since TGuy feels strongly about it, we probably won't use it. I NEVER got the concept of being grounded when I was a kid...other white kids always seemed to get that punishment, and I thought...why is hanging out in your room a big deal? But I guess some of them really hated it!

I never got the (g)rounded thing either. My room has always been my haven. I had books, sketch pads, animals, journals, and magazines. What more could I need?

Edited for spelling see above.

 

[jaysonsmom]

My kids are 8 and 6, and either I was blessed with relatively "good" kids, or I'm a softy, and never deemed any behavior awful enough to warrant such extreme punishment. We usually punish by sending them to their room to think about what they did wrong. When they are ready to apologize and behave (this takes tremendous courage) they come out, and do so.

My husband has smacked them on their hands in the past, but I told him that I thought it only teaches them that hitting is okay, and it's not what I want them to learn. Again, I think I have pretty good kids (Knock on wood). They have never had meltdowns, screaming fits, or violent outburst of any kind....I may think differently if I had demonic offspring \

My kids and I watched an episode of the Supernanny once where the dad punished with hotsauce, and my kids thought it was hilarious! They told me: "Mommy, that would not work on us because we're KOREAN (they're only half) and we LOVE spicy stuff!". In fact, my kids have been eating eggs with tons os Tabasco since they were toddlers.

Hahaha...I am hoping Amelia likes hot stuff, but not sure it's going to happen.

Interesting to see where our own upbringing influences our parenting styles. I can't think that a kid saying sorry to come out of their room takes tremendous courage. When I was a kid, my mom did make me go into my room a couple of times...which was great. I read, kicked back, and just did whatever I wanted. Then when I was bored enough and wanted to come out, I said sorry.

TGuy says putting Amelia in her room will not be a consequence....his mom was put her in her room and knew it was no big deal, so she always put TGuy in the corner of whatever room the family was in. He WISHED he could escape to his room and just mess around, even if it was just to lie in his own bed. So he thinks that's too lenient of a consequence. I'm actually still debating it for later (because she won't have much in her room in the way of fun stuff, like TV's, gameboys or whatever), but since TGuy feels strongly about it, we probably won't use it. I NEVER got the concept of being grounded when I was a kid...other white kids always seemed to get that punishment, and I thought...why is hanging out in your room a big deal? But I guess some of them really hated it!

I never got the rounded thing either. My room has always been my haven. I had books, sketch pads, animals, journals, and magazines. What more could I need?

I think that my kids really are terrified when I "lose it" because it does not happen often. So when they get sent to their room, it's really serious, and the guilt trip (disappointing mommy) factor is really strong. They usually come out to apologize with tears in their eyes, and bottom lip trembling, so I know they were not just hanging out and kickin' it in their room. Only once did my daughter get so comfortable (I think she was about 4 at the time) that she cried herself to sleep!

 

[anchor31]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

This.
I don't know about the US, but in Qc policemen and women in training have to be sprayed in the face with pepperspray before they can carry and use it. I think anyone who intends to use corporeal punishment on children should do it to themselves the exact same way they intend on children, see what it feels like. I think some people might reconsider.

My brother is an officer, and he had to go through that too. But it's not all because they want you to "feel what it's like" although that's part of it. They spray you and then you have to fight them off. It's because IRL, the person you're battling can turn it against you, so you'd better be able to deal with it.

I understand that. My brother and sister are military and had to go through the tear gas thing for the same reason. My point was that I'm not sure so many people would consider a mouthful of hotsauce or an ice-cold shower to NOT be child abuse if they knew what it felt like. It hurts. A lot. I'm not convinced the children really learn anything from it.

 

[anchor31]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

This.
I don't know about the US, but in Qc policemen and women in training have to be sprayed in the face with pepperspray before they can carry and use it. I think anyone who intends to use corporeal punishment on children should do it to themselves the exact same way they intend on children, see what it feels like. I think some people might reconsider.

Anchor - what about the situation above, where the child has already inflicted that pain on the parent?

dragonfly - When DS is old enough to understand, and he pulls my hair, yes I might pull his hair (gently) back so he understands what it feels like. Same thing with biting or hitting, like TGal described (we have similar views on "spanking" and discipline, it seems). I fail to understand what something as painful as a mouthful of hotsauce or an ice-cold shower can accomplish except terror and pain.

 

[dragonfly411]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

This.
I don't know about the US, but in Qc policemen and women in training have to be sprayed in the face with pepperspray before they can carry and use it. I think anyone who intends to use corporeal punishment on children should do it to themselves the exact same way they intend on children, see what it feels like. I think some people might reconsider.

Anchor - what about the situation above, where the child has already inflicted that pain on the parent?

dragonfly - When DS is old enough to understand, and he pulls my hair, yes I might pull his hair (gently) back so he understands what it feels like. Same thing with biting or hitting, like TGal described (we have similar views on "spanking" and discipline, it seems). I fail to understand what something as painful as a mouthful of hotsauce or an ice-cold shower can accomplish except terror and pain.

Anchor - Thanks for answering as it gave the clarification on thoughts that I was hoping for! I do agree with you, although again I think teaspoon of hot sauce with an explanation of why, and why the words are bad is a reasonable punishment vs soap. I don't think a physical punishment for bad words is any good, and sending them to their room offers a way out. I do think that as a parent I will always try to explain why something is wrong and why a child is being punished.... I think it's important for them to think about it.


ETA even a teaspoon seems like a lot.... maybe just a dabble on the tongue.

 

[TravelingGal]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

This.
I don't know about the US, but in Qc policemen and women in training have to be sprayed in the face with pepperspray before they can carry and use it. I think anyone who intends to use corporeal punishment on children should do it to themselves the exact same way they intend on children, see what it feels like. I think some people might reconsider.

My brother is an officer, and he had to go through that too. But it's not all because they want you to "feel what it's like" although that's part of it. They spray you and then you have to fight them off. It's because IRL, the person you're battling can turn it against you, so you'd better be able to deal with it.

I understand that. My brother and sister are military and had to go through the tear gas thing for the same reason. My point was that I'm not sure so many people would consider a mouthful of hotsauce or an ice-cold shower to NOT be child abuse if they knew what it felt like. It hurts. A lot. I'm not convinced the children really learn anything from it.

Gotcha. I agree.

I still remember that training story from when my bro trained as a cop. I figured that it was to show them how it felt, but he told me the latter bit...and I remember thinking...ah. And wondering how they could still manage to fight of a criminal after being sprayed. Guess the story stuck with me because I obviously felt compelled to tell it!

 

[anchor31]

dragonfly and TG - I must say I enjoy having discussions like this. I participated in another (non-PS) discussion on another sensitive topic and was called a "dumb girl" (really? they could have done better than that...) today, so it's nice to "talk" to people who actually get the point of having a discussion (you know, where not everyone agrees but it's fine!).

 

[MonkeyPie]

dragonfly and TG - I must say I enjoy having discussions like this. I participated in another (non-PS) discussion on another sensitive topic and was called a "dumb girl" (really? they could have done better than that...) today, so it's nice to "talk" to people who actually get the point of having a discussion (you know, where not everyone agrees but it's fine!).

Big ditto! Sure is nice!

I wasn't exactly beaten as a child, but my mom was frightening. A spanking was demeaning, but when I got older and skipped school once, she beat the SNOT out of me. She found me in a friends yard and just charged, smacking and punching me upside the head so hard my hair clips broke and I had goose eggs. It was scary as hell and needless to say, that was the only time THAT happened. I think she overreacted, but as a mom, I can understand it, even if I don't agree with it.

I am hoping to be blessed with a child that behaves. Already Micah knows what NO means - if he pulls my hair (and he only does it when he's teething or frustrated), I tell him NO and he lets go. It's usually accompanied by big doe eyes and a trembly lip. I'm such a sucker for it, too. Uh oh.

 

[TravelingGal]

My kids are 8 and 6, and either I was blessed with relatively "good" kids, or I'm a softy, and never deemed any behavior awful enough to warrant such extreme punishment. We usually punish by sending them to their room to think about what they did wrong. When they are ready to apologize and behave (this takes tremendous courage) they come out, and do so.

My husband has smacked them on their hands in the past, but I told him that I thought it only teaches them that hitting is okay, and it's not what I want them to learn. Again, I think I have pretty good kids (Knock on wood). They have never had meltdowns, screaming fits, or violent outburst of any kind....I may think differently if I had demonic offspring \

My kids and I watched an episode of the Supernanny once where the dad punished with hotsauce, and my kids thought it was hilarious! They told me: "Mommy, that would not work on us because we're KOREAN (they're only half) and we LOVE spicy stuff!". In fact, my kids have been eating eggs with tons os Tabasco since they were toddlers.

Hahaha...I am hoping Amelia likes hot stuff, but not sure it's going to happen.

Interesting to see where our own upbringing influences our parenting styles. I can't think that a kid saying sorry to come out of their room takes tremendous courage. When I was a kid, my mom did make me go into my room a couple of times...which was great. I read, kicked back, and just did whatever I wanted. Then when I was bored enough and wanted to come out, I said sorry.

TGuy says putting Amelia in her room will not be a consequence....his mom was put her in her room and knew it was no big deal, so she always put TGuy in the corner of whatever room the family was in. He WISHED he could escape to his room and just mess around, even if it was just to lie in his own bed. So he thinks that's too lenient of a consequence. I'm actually still debating it for later (because she won't have much in her room in the way of fun stuff, like TV's, gameboys or whatever), but since TGuy feels strongly about it, we probably won't use it. I NEVER got the concept of being grounded when I was a kid...other white kids always seemed to get that punishment, and I thought...why is hanging out in your room a big deal? But I guess some of them really hated it!

I never got the rounded thing either. My room has always been my haven. I had books, sketch pads, animals, journals, and magazines. What more could I need?

I think that my kids really are terrified when I "lose it" because it does not happen often. So when they get sent to their room, it's really serious, and the guilt trip (disappointing mommy) factor is really strong. They usually come out to apologize with tears in their eyes, and bottom lip trembling, so I know they were not just hanging out and kickin' it in their room. Only once did my daughter get so comfortable (I think she was about 4 at the time) that she cried herself to sleep!

LOL...that will definitely do it!

 

[TravelingGal]

You know I'm all about boundaries, blah blah blah, but I think it is SO important in the early year to give and SHOW your kid a lot of love.

No one can push my buttons like the people I love. Because they are the very very few who I care what they think. I was a fairly good kid, but remember on a couple of occasions my mom blowing up at me. I fully anticipate that some day, Amelia is going to make me LOSE IT.

Hopefully losing it will simply entail me just shouting or something, and not doing anything nutty. When my mom blew up at me, I knew she was mad (and that I had done something to deserve this). She even swore at me in Korean...impressive since she never swears. But I knew how much she loved me...that never changed and I could deal with it for what it was...a very big argument.

In cases of abuse, I don't think that true love is there, but I can't presume to know what goes on in the minds of these people. All I know is that discipline is only effective without long term damage if there is love.