Just a Thought on Hurricane Katrina

[Shay37]

I have been hearing so much on the state of the citizens of New Orleans that are now trapped and desperately in need of evacuation. I wonder if the cost of this rescue mission doesn''t triple the cost of what it would have taken to get everyone out before Katrina hit. How can you in all conscience call for mandatory evacuations and not provide a way out for those who are economically or physically unable to do so themselves?

Secondly, after hearing of the crimes being committed, I have to wonder why the prisoners weren''t moved to other jails in other parts of the state ahead of time. I don''t advocate leaving them in a jail locked up and helpless at a time like this, but I cannot condone releasing them onto an unsuspecting and helpless and trapped population either.

Third, I recognize the desperation that would drive one to loot a store for food or water, etc. during this crisis. I just find it difficult to believe that a jewelry store could hold a necessity in the midst of a crisis that would make it acceptable to loot that establishment. (For jewelry store, substitute any other type of store that didn''t hold a life necessity.) Not that I hold with stealing from anyone, but if it were my kids that were hungry and thirsty, I don''t rule out anything.

Fourth, a small group of people (comparatively by percentage) is being allowed to bring to a screeching halt a rescue and evacuation operation that desperately needs to be speeded up. Do they want to be taken out first? I think that the priority of evacuation should be that along the lines of triage in a hospital. Those who are the worst off, need to be helped first. If you are well enough to rob, rape, murder, beat, etc., I think you are well enough to wait in line behind those who are ill and elderly and tiny. If you endanger the lives of tens of thousands of people by your halting the evacuation process, then I agree you need to be taken out first. (preferably by something in the high caliber range)

Before anybody flames me for the last sentence, I feel so angry that the good citizens of New Orleans are being held hostage by a group of thugs after having been abandoned by their city, governor, and government. By not providing a means to escape before the storm, we have allowed a mostly-impoverished group of people to be subjected to an unimaginable horror both by nature and human nature.

Sorry for the rant. Tell me what you think of the situation.

Shay

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/1/2005 7:03:00 PM
Author:Shay37
If you endanger the lives of tens of thousands of people by your halting the evacuation process, then I agree you need to be taken out first. (preferably by something in the high caliber range)

Before anybody flames me for the last sentence, I feel so angry that the good citizens of New Orleans are being held hostage by a group of thugs after having been abandoned by their city, governor, and government.....

Sorry for the rant. Tell me what you think of the situation.

Shay

Way too early for Monday morning quarterbacking...but...yes...how sad and impossible this makes the situation, where rescue efforts are being impeded by a small number who are further terrorizing the situation with guns. From the little I know of the situation, I agree with you on this, and with your solution.

 

[MissAva]

While I hear what you are saying and I agree, I know that everytime there is evena much smaller storm that thugs tend to be the ones to stay and then rub everyone who did not board up their house/shop properly. This comes from a police officer who deals with this stuff everytime a hurricane or something else hits.
Some people refused to evacuate, they did not think the storm would be as bad as it was. And is very difficult to force people to leave.
Yes some of this is those who were elected into office responsibility, but some of it was caused by the people themselves.

 

[Shay37]

Matatora, I hear ya. I also have heard of those things. Coming, as I do, from a family of police officers, I get very angry at the people who elect to stay behind to ride out the storm. They think it won''t be as bad as advertised. They think they''ll be fine. They think that God will watch over them. (well he does watch over fools and little children) They think of everything but the lives of those who will have to come to their aid. They don''t consider the danger to those who will have to save them when they realize they are over their heads in the situation in which they find themselves.

Yup, that burns me up as much as the other things I ranted about before. Sorry I forgot to mention it.

Shay

 

[Matata]

Date: 9/1/2005 7:35:54 PM
Author: Shay37
Matatora, I hear ya. I also have heard of those things. Coming, as I do, from a family of police officers, I get very angry at the people who elect to stay behind to ride out the storm. They think it won''t be as bad as advertised. They think they''ll be fine. They think that God will watch over them. (well he does watch over fools and little children) They think of everything but the lives of those who will have to come to their aid. They don''t consider the danger to those who will have to save them when they realize they are over their heads in the situation in which they find themselves.

Yup, that burns me up as much as the other things I ranted about before. Sorry I forgot to mention it.

Shay

Those who had the resources to leave but didn''t gambled and lost. So be it. I am heartbroken over the large population of poor folk who had no option but to stay.

 

[movie zombie]

and you are right that their government failed them. where was the transport brought in to assist with the evacuation? where were the troops that usually assist with evacuations? where are storehouses of food to feed these people? it was known that this storm was coming....why was something more not done? why were people told to leave and not given the assistance to do so? what was so important that we did not take care of our own?

peace, movie zombie

 

[UmmTankMan2]

The government failed even before then, when they underfunded the new orleans Hurricane Protection Project by over 80% for the last three years. The Army Corps was pretty blunt about their lack of funds for levee and pump repairs and upgrades.

 

[pearcrazy]

Date: 9/1/2005 9:12:19 PM
Author: UmmTankMan2
The government failed even before then, when they underfunded the new orleans Hurricane Protection Project by over 80% for the last three years. The Army Corps was pretty blunt about their lack of funds for levee and pump repairs and upgrades.

Welcome to the world of New Orleans government. If it isn''t corrupt it''s mismanaged, and either way the result is the same. New Orleans has been teetering on the edge of disaster in many ways for many years. The money just isn''t there. How are you going to pay for something if you don''t have the money? Police officers a few years ago were so underpaid that many of them were almost at the poverty level. As a result many of them resorted to taking bribes or protecting drug dealers to make ends meet. That city needs a miracle if it''s ever going to get on its feet again.

 

[MissAva]

What is worse is that the victims who have come here for shetler are being kicked out of their hotel rooms, to make room for those coming into town for the football games.

 

[Jennifer5973]

On a related note... I'll tell you what is making me IRATE...I am about to explode hearing about all these celebrities who "want to help"... and this benefit tomorrow night--SCR*W THE %^#@! BENEFIT AND WRITE A CHECK.

Jon Bon Jovi was quoted on the radio: "If I can sing a song or two and help people out, that's easy."

What is wrong with these people? Are they so out of touch with the real world that they can make stupid and naive statements such as this???? Wait--don't answer that.

The radio report went on about how "Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson want to help" and "Leonardo DiCaprio will be at the benefit." WHO CARES???? DOES HE HAVE HIS BLOODY Checkbook?????

How cheap can you be? These people make millions for NONSENSE--movies--mindless, forgettable entertainment ...and have more money than they could spend in six lifetimes, while cops, EMS workers, fireman, soldiers, etc. make about $35,000 year to risk their lives and actually impact people's welfare... is it any wonder I prefer dogs to people....

The ONLY report of celebrities giving money, which was sped thorugh at the end of the radio report as an afterthought, was Diddy and Jay-Z, who each gave $1 million. Congratulations to them for their generosity and for having the intelligence to realize no one wants to watch them sing and dance around amidst this tragedy of unprecedented proportions.

God help us...really....

 

[AGBF]

I wanted to make sure that this and another thread were linked. The link below is a discussion in another forum, "Around the World", of some of the same issues being discussed here.

same discussion-differentvenue

Deborah

 

[teebee]

Date: 9/1/2005 10:17:20 PM
Author: Jennifer5973
On a related note... I'll tell you what is making me IRATE...I am about to explode hearing about all these celebrities who 'want to help'... and this benefit tomorrow night--SCR*W THE %%#@! BENEFIT AND WRITE A CHECK.

Jon Bon Jovi was quoted on the radio: 'If I can sing a song or two and help people out, that's easy.'

What is wrong with these people? Are they so out of touch with the real world that they can make stupid and naive statements such as this???? Wait--don't answer that.

The radio report went on about how 'Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson want to help' and 'Leonardo DiCaprio will eb at the benefit.' WHO CARES???? DOES HE HAVE HIS BLOODY CHeckbook?????

How cheap can you bE? Thes epeople make millions for NONSENSE--movies--minless, forgettable entertainment ...and have more money than they could spend in six lifetimes, while cops, EMS workers, fireman, soldiers, etc. make about $35,000 year to risk their lives and actually impact people's welfare... is it any wonder I prefer dogs to people....

The ONLY report of celebrities giving money, which was sped thorugh at the end of the radio report as an afterthought, was Diddy and Jay-Z, who each gave $1 million. Congratulations to them for their generosity and for having the intelligence to realize no one wants to watch them sing and dance around amidst this tragedy of unprecedented proportions.

God help us...really....

Amen... I say they should put their money where their mouths are - literally - don't sing me a stupid song, write a check!! I coudn't care less about watching another stupid benefit show that is more about publicity & exposure for the celebrity than for disaster relief...

 

[hlmr]

Date: 9/1/2005 10:17:20 PM
Author: Jennifer5973
On a related note... I''ll tell you what is making me IRATE...I am about to explode hearing about all these celebrities who ''want to help''... and this benefit tomorrow night--SCR*W THE %%#@! BENEFIT AND WRITE A CHECK.

Jon Bon Jovi was quoted on the radio: ''If I can sing a song or two and help people out, that''s easy.''

What is wrong with these people? Are they so out of touch with the real world that they can make stupid and naive statements such as this???? Wait--don''t answer that.

The radio report went on about how ''Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson want to help'' and ''Leonardo DiCaprio will eb at the benefit.'' WHO CARES???? DOES HE HAVE HIS BLOODY CHeckbook?????

How cheap can you bE? Thes epeople make millions for NONSENSE--movies--minless, forgettable entertainment ...and have more money than they could spend in six lifetimes, while cops, EMS workers, fireman, soldiers, etc. make about $35,000 year to risk their lives and actually impact people''s welfare... is it any wonder I prefer dogs to people....

The ONLY report of celebrities giving money, which was sped thorugh at the end of the radio report as an afterthought, was Diddy and Jay-Z, who each gave $1 million. Congratulations to them for their generosity and for having the intelligence to realize no one wants to watch them sing and dance around amidst this tragedy of unprecedented proportions.

God help us...really....

Here, here Jennifer!

I can''t believe the suffering that continues in New Orleans right now and why haven''t these people been helped??!! They need WATER, FOOD, HEEELLLPPP - not flippin songs!!!!!! The richest country in the world and yet they are still are dying of thirst, starvation and lack of medicine. My heart breaks for them.

Heather

 

[phoenixgirl]

Shay, I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Hindsight is 20/20. After tragedies like Columbine, schools have contingency plans that include suicidal intruders bent on killing as many people as possible. I imagine that nobody thought it would be this bad.

It''s easy to think I would remain civilized in a situation like that, but if I had no water and was living in those conditions, I might resort to might is right.

That people are going around stealing jewelry or DVDs or whatever shows me that they are seriously lacking in common sense. You have no food, no water, no place to stay, no way to protect yourself from disease. Prioritize, don''t run around like a criminal adult version of a little kid in a candy store.

It''s just appalling. The whole situation is so so scary. I agree that the thugs should be treated with as much violence and lack of regard as they show others until the situation stabilizes. Then we can worry about due process and all that.

How do they even begin to deal with all of the problems? Finding all the bodies and any survivors. Removing debris and waste that is a health hazard. Picking up the pieces of local government, industry, schooling, etc. It makes me wonder how things are going over in Thailand and Indonesia. Is there any sense of normalcy?

 

[widget]

I''m NOT accustomed to defending publicity seeking celebs, but don''t you think these benefits generate a LOT of donations from a broad spectrum of people who might not otherwise be inspired to help?

Also...don''t flame me here...but if these guys normally get a huge amount of money for performing in a concert, then by doing it for free aren''t they infact "donating" that huge amount to the cause?

I guess I''m just not inclined to knock ANY efforts put forth to help in this catastrophe...

widget

 

[appletini]

I''ll probably post this on several katrina threads, but here goes...

for those of you who want to donate you can go to the american cross website and donate online www.redcross.org

I''m in Houston and have several sorority sisters whose families are from New Orleans.

1. One girl was supposed to get married in NOLA in a few weeks, but fortunately her family''s home in a nearby town was spared
2. Another girl''s mom & sister are now staying here with her and don''t plan on moving back. Her mom will get a job here and her sister will enroll in school
3. A thrid girl has 11 adults, 8 dogs, & a cat now staying with her and her husband in a 3 bedroom house, her father''s business has been wiped out, they don''t know about their house

Those of us in the local alum club are donating gift cards for grocery stores, target, clothes, etc to help them out. While I was at target tonight I saw quite a few refugees purchasing the necessities that they need.

My compnay *had* an office in downtown NOLA, and now are trying to get everyone to H-town, they have set up an internal website for Houston employees to open their homes to the Louisianna employees (I work for a large oil company).

I''m going out of town for holiday weekend with my BF and all his friends and their wives, we feel so guilty b/c we feel like we should stay and volunteer. I plan on helping out at the astrodome or something next week. I''m so proud to be part of city that is so willing to help others with open arms and hospitality.

Please keep all these people in your prayers...I can''t imagine loosing everything at once, and not knowing the status and location of loved ones.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 9/1/2005 10:43:17 PM
Author: widget
I'm NOT accustomed to defending publicity seeking celebs, but don't you think these benefits generate a LOT of donations from a broad spectrum of people who might not otherwise be inspired to help?

Also...don't flame me here...but if these guys normally get a huge amount of money for performing in a concert, then by doing it for free aren't they infact 'donating' that huge amount to the cause?

I guess I'm just not inclined to knock ANY efforts put forth to help in this catastrophe...

widget

I am not saying don't have the benefit--that is a good thing and it is an important part of the effort to help. But people with liquid assets in the tens of millions should also write a check. I DO think it is appalling to just say you'll sing some songs.

I personally would be embarrassed to plaster myself allover tTV/radio talking about "helping" and "these poor people" and not put my money where my mouth is-literally.

Sorry, I just don't think paticipating in the benefit concert for two hours of their egocentric, spoiled, self-indulgent lives is enough.

 

[Shay37]

Jennifer, how about this. In order to "capitalize" on the free publicity of this event, they must first write a check themselves. That way, we know that it's a sincere desire to help, and not just a gesture.

Phoenixgirl, thank you. I was kind of worried that people would really be offended by my comments, but I was just so angry at the whole thing.

AGBF, thank you for the link. I really enjoyed the other discussion as well.

Thanks to all of you for posting. I think that just being able to share and listen to each other's viewpoints can be a way to get past the anger and come up with solutions for the future.

Shay

 

[Jennifer5973]

Hi, Shay...not sure I know what to make of your reply...But I have just expressed my opinion. As a person, I think it's embarrassing to say all you are going to do is spend 2 hrs of your time doing what is basically effortless for you as your response to this.... that someone with many, many millions wouldn't send a contribution him/herself, but instead simply "perform" so that the rest of America, most of whom are working class and live paycheck to paycheck, can pony up some money.

I agree with Widget insofaras that if the beenfit/telethon thing gets otherwise unmotivated people to donate, it is indeed helpful to the cause.

In fairness, perhaps some do contribute but hide it--could be. I read long after 9/11 that Sandra Bullock sent in a $1 million check to one of the large charities involved... and did it very quietly. But my gut tells me that is the exception and not the rule.

 

[Shay37]

Oh, Jen, I love ya. I wasn''t picking on you. I agree that it seems a bit like doing something painless which they do all the time while asking people who make a lot less money to donate all they can. I just meant that they should have to put their money where their mouth is to participate in something that is surely to be widely televised. (publicity) So I agree with you. Just thinking outside the box.

Shay

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 9/1/2005 11:14:42 PM
Author: Shay37
Oh, Jen, I love ya. I wasn''t picking on you. I agree that it seems a bit like doing something painless which they do all the time while asking people who make a lot less money to donate all they can. I just meant that they should have to put their money where their mouth is to participate in something that is surely to be widely televised. (publicity) So I agree with you. Just thinking outside the box.

Shay

Well, that is a relief!

I gave my initial donation to the ASPCA Natural Disaster Relief Fund...I am taking heat for that...I know there is unimagineable human suffering but my heart is also breaking for the abandoned pets and the ASPCA is getting people down there to help them before they starve and die in the streets. Through my company, I will donate to the Red Cross as well. If Harry Connick, Jr. would just write a big enough check, maybe I wouldn''t feel so guilty about putting the pets first on my donation list.

 

[Buena Girl]

Date: 9/1/2005 10:47:49 PM
Author: appletini
I''ll probably post this on several katrina threads, but here goes...

for those of you who want to donate you can go to the american cross website and donate online www.redcross.org

I''m not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but you can also make a donation to the Red Cross through your iTunes account (if you have bought iTunes for your iPod in the past and have an account already set-up). Very quick and easy! Takes like 5 seconds to make the donation.

 

[thebanjodog]

i hear your frustration at the terrible conditions that thousands of people are currently enduring. earlier this evening i was ranting to my husband about the situation. i couldn''t understand why mutiple states couldn''t just send their school buses to get those people out. hey, they could go there loaded with water, food, meds that the refugees needed. then we realized that they could get there but they wouldn''t have gas to get back. there are many people working their butts off to help their fellow man and there are many looting and hurting their fellow man. i know it is frustrating but this is an act of nature not something that the government made happen. i realized that it takes time to get ships there and helicopters require fuel and can carry only small amounts of people. i have heard the tv reporters bringing up the race issue but i saw many white health care workers standing with the sick. this is horrific, my heart is breaking but instead of blaming anyone we need to give the relief workers any help we can and not be too quick to critize. after all some of the holdups are being caused by the bad apples who are being violent. it is a case of you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don''t. they can''t get those people out of there soon enough but they are working on it and i don''t want to slow them up by debating the issue with them now. i want to let them work and work as fast as they can. we have sent our check. my husband''s employer is matching all employee contributions. the only thing i can do for now is pray for those involved. banjo

 

[belle]

Date: 9/1/2005 11:41:07 PM
Author: thebanjodog
i hear your frustration at the terrible conditions that thousands of people are currently enduring. earlier this evening i was ranting to my husband about the situation. i couldn''t understand why mutiple states couldn''t just send their school buses to get those people out. hey, they could go there loaded with water, food, meds that the refugees needed. then we realized that they could get there but they wouldn''t have gas to get back. there are many people working their butts off to help their fellow man and there are many looting and hurting their fellow man. i know it is frustrating but this is an act of nature not something that the government made happen. i realized that it takes time to get ships there and helicopters require fuel and can carry only small amounts of people. i have heard the tv reporters bringing up the race issue but i saw many white health care workers standing with the sick. this is horrific, my heart is breaking but instead of blaming anyone we need to give the relief workers any help we can and not be too quick to critize. after all some of the holdups are being caused by the bad apples who are being violent. it is a case of you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don''t. they can''t get those people out of there soon enough but they are working on it and i don''t want to slow them up by debating the issue with them now. i want to let them work and work as fast as they can. we have sent our check. my husband''s employer is matching all employee contributions. the only thing i can do for now is pray for those involved. banjo

thank you banjo.

 

[Kaleigh]

I agree with so many points that have been brought up here tonight. I for one cannot stomach another celebrity concert in the wake of this disaster. I would much rather see them write a check than see their song and dance. I would love to see them get down and dirty and help out. Bring your entourage and help out for gods sake. I am tired and a little cranky, so forgive me. This hits close to home for me after 9/11.

 

[perry]

I understand that there is a lot of frustration, fingerpointing, and outright blame going on right now.

I suggest it will be substaintially worse when it is discovered that the final casualties in New Orleans will be about 10,000 (and at this time I could even see perhaps several multiples of that).

Here is how I see it:

First, As I understand it Katrina wasn''t heading for that section of the coast at all, and the evacuation request (order) came with only 2 days or less notice. Given that, over 80% of the people got out of the area (over 1 million people left the target area). That is actually pretty good by any measure.

Of the 20% who stayed; at least 10% would have stayed no matter what, and the others would have left if they had more time to prepare or to get transportation (see item just after the next item).

My understanding is that somewhere between 75,000 and 95,000 people stayed behind in New Orleans.

However, for those who thought there should have been a massive goverment program to transport people. As the government has quickly learned it is not that easy. When I heard that they were going to buss 20,000 people to Houston I quickly calculated in my head that they would need 400 busses to do that. Where do you find 400 busses on short notice. Heck where do you find even 100 busses on short notice? You don''t, they are not in the area. Thus, there really was not any way for the government to with a few days notice move. So if you wanted to move 40,000 people who would have "hypothetically moved if given enough time or transportation" you would need about 800 busses. This is just not realistic. Figure a week to get that many busses even on a crash basis from an assortment of other states.

Mooving people out of jails and hospitals... Why would they even had thought of that?

Keep in mind that Katrina did not "directly" cause a problem for New Orleans; and that the people who stayed actually felt that they had beaten the bullet.

Katrina was recognized as a major problem headed for the shore. The various agencies and charites actually in a very rare move prepositioned on the order of 5000 people and hundreds of truckloads of supplies in nearby areas so that they could move in after the hurricane passed through the area. I understand that this premobilization had only been done once before - and never on this scale before (like this was 5-10 times larger than the other premobilization).

However, Katrina proved to be much more powerfull and caused damage to a much larger area than anticipated - and even this prepositioned 5000 people and hundreds of truckloads of supplies - set close enough to get onsite within a day from east and west - were insufficient, and were stopped on the edges of the dammage. Days later the relief forces - a lot more relief forces - has still not gotten to the center of the damage area and supplies of all kinds are short of supply.

New Orleans is experiencing a situation they did not belive would ever happen (at least the people in New Orleans did not). There have been many studies that projected the flooding of New Orleans in the case of a levie breach; but the city''s emergency plans were never intended for that. The city assumed that in a major hurricane that water would wash over the levies and flood the bowl - and that a series of pumps would pump out the bowl. They did not count on the levies breaking - and that there would be no electricity to run any of the pumps.

It was also well known that New Orleans is access limited and it was projected that a major storm could damage the Hyways into the city.

I distincly recall reading a study years ago that talked about the Mississippi river levies breaking - and projected something like 50,000 - 100,000 people would initially die, and that there may not be a good way to get the other 300,000 people out of the city who got to higher building floors or higher ground. The study, as I recall never suggested a solution for saving those stranded people. Looking at it now, probably because there is no real solution.

The other thing that New Orleans has always wanted was for the federal govement (that''s the rest of us people in the US) to spend huge amounts of money to keep reinforcing the levies and building more pumps. It has not happened because most of the other states cannot see spending that much money on one city to prevent something that all the engineers and scietiest will tell you is unpreventable: the eventual flooding of New Orleans (and if you rebuile it - it will again flood someday). I recongnize that this may sound cold to some. But it is the truth. Note also that the oldest parts of the city, such as the french quarter, are actually above sea level (immagine that...).

So, 2 days after Katrina passed through the area - and with the emergency crews fully focused on the "issues" on land - the levies failed arround New Orleans - and it flooded. Katrina had knocked out the electricity to all of the big pumps (not that they would have made a difference).

The only really good thing was that 80% of the population had left so that you did not see that initial 50,000 - 100,000 dead. The number of people to be rescued is much less than 300,000.

Thank god for a huge miricle with that.

You are right that the city was unprepared. This was the disaster that they never really acknowled existed, and never planned for. How do you plan for it?

Add no power, no phones, limited road access, and doing things is downright tough.

But at the same time, with the possible exception of some tourest, the people of New Orleans have chosen to live with this risk. As long as I recall people have talked about the bowl flooding scenerio. No one ever planned for it because "afterall" the levies wouldn''t really fail - would they... Denile can be deadly.

Within less than 1 day of the levie failures the Federal Government acted. Only problem is - it takes time to mobilize people and supplies to an area. Navy ships are on the way. 4 days they say. Actually, it''s probably 2 days to load supplies and 2 days to get there(I''ve sailed from texas to Norfolk Va before, even did a run from Ft Lauderdale to Norfolk running from a hurrican where we left most of the crew on shore and I stayed up on watch for the entier trip because I was the only qualified Engineroom "Top Watch" on board).

Why, some people ask, can the Military respond within 2 days with huge amounts of supplies and equipment on the other side of the planet - and we can''t here? It is because the Military has special stockpiles of supplies and equipment - even fully loaded ships ready to go (just sitting there) - for instant deployment to a trouble spot in much of the globe. We do not have such prepared and prepositioned supplies and loaded ships here in the US. The nearest such supplies is at least 10 days away from us by ship. Why would we need them here, the Militatary is not prepared to fight a war or set-up to respond to a crises within the US. Why would it be. That does not mean that the supplies and equipment does not exist in various spots that the millitary can access. Just that it has to be gathered up and shipped.

The military will get there - and will be able to do wonders once they are up to full strength (that might take another week though). However, the last I heard is that there is at least 30,000 people still in shelters in New Orleans (did you hear about the convention center with another 20,000 people in it). That is still a lot of people to transport somehow. The only real question - is how many more will die before they can be rescued. Unfortunately, it may be in the thousands, many thousands at that.

As far as the looters. I have no problem with people taking needed food, supplies, and medicines in a disaster situation. I don''t even consider that looting. The people who are taking electonics, guns, etc should be shot(executed) immediately (martial law has already been declared). They cannot be allowed to gain the upper hand in a disaster recovery area. We see the results now. Far more lives would be saved this way. There are lots of lessons learned on this from arround the world.

As far as how people help. People help as they know how. Celebrities are celbrities because they are in the spotlight - you expect them to change now?

Concerning the future... Keep in mind that all those flooded buildings - if they are ever unflodded are a total loss. Perhaps a few personal items might be recovered. Otherwise they will be either burned or buldozed.

I do not support rebuilding New Orleans in its present configuration. For all the money that people are going to want to spend on "better" levies (that will again fails someday)... I suggest that if the city is to be rebuilt (and that might be a big if) that the money be spent in trucking in proper fill and raising the city so that most of it is well above sea level. The only way to eliminate this from happening again is to eliminate the curent bowl. Otherwise, some of us will probably see New Orleans flood again some day, and people will cry all over again.

Perry

 

[UmmTankMan2]

My county''s school system has 1400 school buses. They average 7mpg and a gas tank of 60 gallons - that''s a 210-mile round trip before refueling. If they seat about 40 people each (some seat 70), and combine that with 1400 Guard troops or just volunteers, and that''s 56,000 people that could be moved 200 miles using 84000 gallons of gas. You''d need less than 20 fuel tanker trailers to refuel them. If my school district would have more than enough buses to do this, why is the entire state of LA unable to come up with as many and 20 measley fuel tankers? So, no, I don''t understand that part.

It''s also hard to understand why the city was not even ready for a Category 3 hurricane. It''s below sea level. It''s kept dry by levees and pumps. It''s right between the Mississipi and the Gulf, a very active hurricane region. If it were some random town or whatever and the feds didn''t have the money to protect it, fine, their fault for buiding below sea level. But it''s New Orleans. It''s a major city, a major port, the hub of our oil imports and refining operations... ugh. Yeah, of course my hindsight is 20/20; I didnt'' even know New Orleans was below sea level until after it flooded, but people knew. The governor, mayor, senators and representatives had to know these important facts and someone still decided to cut the funding. I think the odds were slim that a big hurricane would hit New Orleans like this and so someone gambled and lost.

 

[MissAva]

I see what you mean about the school busses but wouldnt that be filled with children not adults? Wight carried affects such things, as would many other factors...you know this I am sure.
Appletini- I am sorry about your sisters...
Our campus has opened its rec center to those in need. I doubt we are the only ones.

 

[MrsFrk]

My prayers are with all creatures suffering in the Gulf Coast. What a disaster.

My uncle is a hydrologist with the USGS- EVERYONE in the field, and many who are not, knew that New Orleans was a time bomb waiting to explode. For decades now they have been agitating for some sort of action, but no- no money or will could be found to address the issue. Katrina would have done damage no matter what, but if the levee situation had been addressed, the scope of the flooding would be far, far less.

Regarding those who stayed behind; bear in mind that some people simply couldn''t leave. There are many people living extremely close to the bone in New Orleans. If you have no car, no money for a bus ticket, no family in another state, no money for a motel even IF you can leave town...where the heck are you going to go?

A friend of mine left for the area yesterday (from here in N. California). She was warned that the situation is extreme (by search and rescue people who were at Ground Zero). They say the stench and filth and devastation are almost unfathomable. All rescue workers are requiring armed guards. God help us.

 

[Momoftwo]

There were plenty of people who could afford to leave, but chose not to. Fats Domino who could easily afford to go anywhere, stayed behind with his wife and daughter in NO, had to be rescued. People make really bad decisions and then wait to be "rescued" from all kinds of things. This is just one example. People have to be responsible for themselves too and not expect the government to take care of them all the time.

That said, NO is overall a very poor town. It was only a matter of time til something like this happened with a city at and below sea level. The storm was more than they thought it would be, but there also have been lots of warnings that a Cat 3 or larger could breech the levee. You would never have to tell me twice to leave for a hurricane.

While I agree celebrities can write checks, they can also raise lots of money from people who wouldn''t give otherwise. They''ll give to a concert because they feel like they''re getting something in return for their money.