Is Paula Deen getting what she deserves?

[Aoife]

If you still don't know what happened, you should go back and actually read through the complaint.

We rise when people like Paula Deen stop trying to revisit plantation weddings and stop using racial slurs. We rise when we condemn those people that keep harping on times that have passed. We do not rise over it by ignoring racism and turning a blind eye to it.

If your grandma says, "At least she's not black," that makes her sound pretty racist. Why is it a question of wavelength? There is no question of wavelength. Racism is wrong. Quiet racism, loud racism, violent racism--it is all wrong. Racism isn't an accidental, little human mistake. Its not the time someone tripped over a crack in the pavement. Its intentionally, thoughtfully, destructive. They're not just words. Racism is the reason we had slavery, the reason we had Jim Crow, and the reason we have Paula Deen wishing she might have a plantation wedding. Racism isn't just about words. Its the reason why people of color are more likely to be disadvantaged in everything from education to wages--its time to change that.

Exactly.

I'm actually astonished at the number of people on PS who have responded to the above poll and who think she is being treated unfairly. And a little depressed, if I'm honest.

How anyone can read the deposition, or her autobiography, or watch any of the videos of her own words and think that she's being misunderstood is beyond me.

And, thanks to House Cat and Circe for their posts.

 

[momhappy]

The problem that some of us have is the general use of the terms. If the words are offensive, they should not be used by anyone. Period. It shouldn't be okay for a black man to use the the n-word, just as a white woman shouldn't use it. The theory about how it's okay for certain groups to us certain language, but not others, doesn't make any sense to me. The thing about taking back power, etc. - it's just not something that I agree with.
Like I said, I don't even like Pala Deen (to be honest, her whiny voice has always bothered me and I have never been a fan), but she is being treated unfairly. Obviously, she made a mistake (we all do) and there are consequences as a result of her actions. However, when I say that she is being treated unfairly, I am talking in general terms. Different people use offensive terminology for various reasons and it goes unpunished for various reasons. The unfair part that some of us have spoken of is that Paula Deen is being treated this way probably in part because of who she is. If terminology is offensive, it should be offensive across the board - it shouldn't be okay to pick and choose who can use it and who can't.

 

[distracts]

If you still don't know what happened, you should go back and actually read through the complaint.

We rise when people like Paula Deen stop trying to revisit plantation weddings and stop using racial slurs. We rise when we condemn those people that keep harping on times that have passed. We do not rise over it by ignoring racism and turning a blind eye to it.

If your grandma says, "At least she's not black," that makes her sound pretty racist. Why is it a question of wavelength? There is no question of wavelength. Racism is wrong. Quiet racism, loud racism, violent racism--it is all wrong. Racism isn't an accidental, little human mistake. Its not the time someone tripped over a crack in the pavement. Its intentionally, thoughtfully, destructive. They're not just words. Racism is the reason we had slavery, the reason we had Jim Crow, and the reason we have Paula Deen wishing she might have a plantation wedding. Racism isn't just about words. Its the reason why people of color are more likely to be disadvantaged in everything from education to wages--its time to change that.

Right on, IndyLady.

 

[kenny]

Now former president Jimmy Carter urges forgiveness.

SNIP:
(CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said embattled celebrity chef Paula Deen should be forgiven, arguing that while there's no condoning the racial slurs she uttered, the well-known personality has been candid and apologetic.
"She was maybe excessively honest in saying that she had in the past, 30 years ago, used this terrible word," Carter told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux in an interview Friday.
"I think she has been punished, perhaps overly severely, for her honesty in admitting it and for the use of the word in the distant past.
She's apologized profusely."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/georgia-carter-deen/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This story just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
I think this is an important moment for America.
I think open discussion is good on this painful topic, and lack of discussion preserves the status quo.

This story has touched a nerve in so many of us.
IMO after the discussions and arguments and the dust has settled, America will grow and be a better place.

 

[sonnyjane]

I will reiterate what others in this thread have already said. Do people make mistakes? Yes. Should a few mistakes ruin our entire life? Probably not. But when you are willing to become a public figure in order to make millions of dollars, you excuse yourself from the masses and become susceptible to a different level of scrutiny. It's a gamble that you take and many ride the wave of fame and fortune until they get exposed. That's exactly what happened here. You just can't be a racist public figure. It's bad for business anywhere.

 

[Matata]

This issue is not just about a racial slur -- it's also about her knowledge that her brother allegedly created a hostile work environment in his restaurant (which is part of her empire) and she did nothing to stop it. She has a carefully crafted public persona of the hapless southern belle but she is shrewd and I believe she is fully aware of her actions and their consequences.

 

[Ellen]

If you still don't know what happened, you should go back and actually read through the complaint.

We rise when people like Paula Deen stop trying to revisit plantation weddings and stop using racial slurs. We rise when we condemn those people that keep harping on times that have passed. We do not rise over it by ignoring racism and turning a blind eye to it.

If your grandma says, "At least she's not black," that makes her sound pretty racist. Why is it a question of wavelength? There is no question of wavelength. Racism is wrong. Quiet racism, loud racism, violent racism--it is all wrong. Racism isn't an accidental, little human mistake. Its not the time someone tripped over a crack in the pavement. Its intentionally, thoughtfully, destructive. They're not just words. Racism is the reason we had slavery, the reason we had Jim Crow, and the reason we have Paula Deen wishing she might have a plantation wedding. Racism isn't just about words. Its the reason why people of color are more likely to be disadvantaged in everything from education to wages--its time to change that.

Exactly.

I'm actually astonished at the number of people on PS who have responded to the above poll and who think she is being treated unfairly. And a little depressed, if I'm honest.

How anyone can read the deposition, or her autobiography, or watch any of the videos of her own words and think that she's being misunderstood is beyond me.

And, thanks to House Cat and Circe for their posts.

Where might one find said videos?

 

[kenny]

Where might one find said videos?

I am aware of only three ... are there more?

First, she released a professionally-produced video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDOezlc52z0

Soon after that she withdrew that one (not that that is even possible in 2013) , and made her own, reportedly with her own camcorder and no pros present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu6Us7fpr00

Her interview on The Today Show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PL02LMD8Gw

 

[House Cat]

The problem that some of us have is the general use of the terms. If the words are offensive, they should not be used by anyone. Period. It shouldn't be okay for a black man to use the the n-word, just as a white woman shouldn't use it. The theory about how it's okay for certain groups to us certain language, but not others, doesn't make any sense to me. The thing about taking back power, etc. - it's just not something that I agree with.
Like I said, I don't even like Pala Deen (to be honest, her whiny voice has always bothered me and I have never been a fan), but she is being treated unfairly. Obviously, she made a mistake (we all do) and there are consequences as a result of her actions. However, when I say that she is being treated unfairly, I am talking in global terms. Different people use offensive terminology for various reasons and it goes unpunished for various reasons. The unfair part that some of us speak of is that Paula Deen is being treated this way probably in part because of who she is. If terminology is offensive, it should be offensive across the board - it shouldn't be okay to pick and choose who can use it and who can't.

It ISN'T ok for an African American man to use that word. If he chooses to use that word, it is no excuse for a man of another race to be racist against that African American Man.


Just because members of the African American population choose to use that word, doesn't make it OK for the Caucasian population to be racist and bigoted. The two issues are totally separate, meaning one behavior is not a defense for the other mindset. I am actually so tired of racist individuals using this behavior as a defense for their bigoted mindset! The truth is racist people would be racist regardless of whether or not African American people were calling themselves the n-word.

Paula Deen was doing much more than using the n-word. I would say that making her African American employees use the back door and only allowing them to use one specific bathroom would stand on its own as racist. This complaint and her downfall would be happening with or without her even opening her mouth.

You really should read the complaint.

 

[Ella]

Ladies and gentlemen, please remember that this is a family friendly forum and technically discussions about race are not allowed. I will allow this thread to remain in the interest of good discussion but please do not post profanity or negative comments generalizing one ethnicity or group or they will be removed.

Some comments and posts have been edited or removed out of this thread already for violating our policies.

Please do not be the person that causes the thread to be shut down.

 

[kenny]

Ella, thank you for letting the discussion remain.
I feel progress is the result of sincere but respectful discussion and sunlight is the best disinfectant.

 

[monarch64]

The problem that some of us have is the general use of the terms. If the words are offensive, they should not be used by anyone. Period. It shouldn't be okay for a black man to use the the n-word, just as a white woman shouldn't use it. The theory about how it's okay for certain groups to us certain language, but not others, doesn't make any sense to me. The thing about taking back power, etc. - it's just not something that I agree with.
Like I said, I don't even like Pala Deen (to be honest, her whiny voice has always bothered me and I have never been a fan), but she is being treated unfairly. Obviously, she made a mistake (we all do) and there are consequences as a result of her actions. However, when I say that she is being treated unfairly, I am talking in global terms. Different people use offensive terminology for various reasons and it goes unpunished for various reasons. The unfair part that some of us speak of is that Paula Deen is being treated this way probably in part because of who she is. If terminology is offensive, it should be offensive across the board - it shouldn't be okay to pick and choose who can use it and who can't.

It ISN'T ok for an African American man to use that word. If he chooses to use that word, it is no excuse for a man of another race to be racist against that African American Man.


Just because members of the African American population choose to use that word, doesn't make it OK for the Caucasian population to be racist and bigoted. The two issues are totally separate, meaning one behavior is not a defense for the other mindset. I am actually so tired of racist individuals using this behavior as a defense for their bigoted mindset! The truth is racist people would be racist regardless of whether or not African American people were calling themselves the n-word.

Paula Deen was doing much more than using the n-word. I would say that making her African American employees use the back door and only allowing them to use one specific bathroom would stand on its own as racist. This complaint and her downfall would be happening with or without her even opening her mouth.

You really should read the complaint.

I wholeheartedly concur, which is why I posted a link to the formal complaint on page 1 of this thread.

I read another perspective that I found absolutely fascinating and so intelligent, the other night:
http://afroculinaria.com/2013/06/25/an-open-letter-to-paula-deen/

I find this case of particular interest not only because I support any and every effort to get rid of discrimination in any form, but because I come from a family-owned restaurant background. It occurs to me that, since the restaurants are/were all located in southern IN, quite close to the actual South, some of this crap may have gone on, which makes me feel rather ill. I do remember my mother (who is from WI) telling me that my grandmother (ran the restaurants for quite a few years after my grandfather passed) had been known to use the "n-word." She went on to tell me that she told my grandmother point-blank that she would never use that word in front of us kids, and that if she did she'd never see us again. She had my father's full support on that one. Who knows how she ran her businesses as far as other discriminatory acts. I hate to think about it. I haven't seen her for 4+ years, and she lives 30 minutes away from us...part of the reason is that she comes from a totally different world, much like I imagine Deen does. Not an excuse. But, people like Deen and my grandmother and so many other old-fashioned, ignoramuses out there are the reason this thread exists, and the reason there is such a national uproar. It's wrong, period. All of it.

ETA: and I'll say one more thing: my former employer and I were in his vehicle going to see a line presentation (apparel buying) recently. He was telling me a story about a rep he used to know, and actually described this person as a "colored." I was so appalled I honestly nearly bit my tongue in half trying to keep from tearing him a new one (we were on a highway going 70 mph--my life, my job was in his hands). He's in his 60's, born and raised in MI. So if you think for a minute that racism is still not rampant in this country, think again. It absolutely is, and this is why Deen is being made an example of. You can shove it aside, under the rug, ignore it, all you want because "they're just words," but that is the cop-out of the millenium.

 

[distracts]

I watched one of the apology videos... in which she said she was sorry and she'd been hurt a lot by this and was really sorry. Excuse me, SHE was hurt? No. That's not a real apology. SO SORRY you didn't know that saying racist things would result in people judging you. Except not.

 

[Ellen]

Thanks Kenny.

 

[babs23r]

Now former president Jimmy Carter urges forgiveness.

SNIP:
(CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said embattled celebrity chef Paula Deen should be forgiven, arguing that while there's no condoning the racial slurs she uttered, the well-known personality has been candid and apologetic.
"She was maybe excessively honest in saying that she had in the past, 30 years ago, used this terrible word," Carter told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux in an interview Friday.
"I think she has been punished, perhaps overly severely, for her honesty in admitting it and for the use of the word in the distant past.
She's apologized profusely."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/georgia-carter-deen/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This story just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
I think this is an important moment for America.
I think open discussion is good on this painful topic, and lack of discussion preserves the status quo.

This story has touched a nerve in so many of us.
IMO after the discussions and arguments and the dust has settled, America will grow and be a better place.

Wow, what a surprise that Jimmy Carter is calling for forgiveness when it comes to Paula Deen. That's like the pot calling the kettle black( no pun intended).
He's got a nerve telling us who to forgive. He is one of the worlds most famous racist.

 

[princesss]

The problem that some of us have is the general use of the terms. If the words are offensive, they should not be used by anyone. Period. It shouldn't be okay for a black man to use the the n-word, just as a white woman shouldn't use it. The theory about how it's okay for certain groups to us certain language, but not others, doesn't make any sense to me. The thing about taking back power, etc. - it's just not something that I agree with.
Like I said, I don't even like Pala Deen (to be honest, her whiny voice has always bothered me and I have never been a fan), but she is being treated unfairly. Obviously, she made a mistake (we all do) and there are consequences as a result of her actions. However, when I say that she is being treated unfairly, I am talking in general terms. Different people use offensive terminology for various reasons and it goes unpunished for various reasons. The unfair part that some of us have spoken of is that Paula Deen is being treated this way probably in part because of who she is. If terminology is offensive, it should be offensive across the board - it shouldn't be okay to pick and choose who can use it and who can't.

You know what? I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this.

When a group of people has been historically marginalized and disenfranchised, when they have been oppressed and been told they should be grateful for the few freedoms they're given, when they're told they have a seat at the table to decide their fate only to be completely ignored when they speak up, I think that group has the right to reclaim words and call themselves whatever they want. I also think they have the right to maintain that nobody else can say that.

Yes, I'd love a day when we can rise above discussions of race, but that can only happen when systemic racism isn't a problem. We can't look "beyond" race when race still plays a deciding factor in how millions of people live. When people say they want us to ignore race, I think what they really mean is they're uncomfortable having their privledge scrutinized, and they're scared their lives could change. And you know what? They will. And thank God for that.

Am I perfect? Hell no. I am a white, upper-middle-class, Christian, heterosexual, cis-woman. That is a whole lot of privledge there. As we truly become a more equal society, my life will change. The way I experience the world is NOT the norm, it is NOT the standard. And that needs to change. And until it does, yeah, I'm going to say that any group has the right to reclaim a word used against them in violence and hate, and to turn it into whatever they like.

 

[packrat]

Doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose then? If the word continues to be used, a word that to me, of no other word ever, screams violence and hate, won't we just sit here in violence and hate, never becoming better ? We want everyone to be equal. Equal isn't I can but you can't b/c you don't "get" me, you haven't been thru what *I* have or my ancestors have. The usage of the word breeds hate and violence, that's the nature of the word. Using it, by anyone, (not when you're reading a book, using it to USE it, which is what I was referring to before) just perpetuates what that word means and what it refers to.

when I was younger, at a party one time, a black guy was there, I'd met him a few times. A guy (white) I somewhat hung out w/walked in, and greeted the black guy with "Hey N-" and I choked on my beer, spilling it all over the place. The guy stood up, said "N-" and they did this whole hand shake thing, and then he tilted his head at me "Blondie over here's waiting for me to shoot you" and they laughed. I'm a wuss nowadays and probably would've just run away when I heard their "pet names" but back then it made me mad. We had a heated discussion about it and why it was ok for him to say, and ok for our mutual friend to say, I didn't get it then and I don't get it now. The discussion got loud enough that he laughed and said we needed to chill b/c we were scaring the rest of the drunk white people. That was 20 years ago and my stand is the same.

Oh, and the reasoning? "It's what we ARE. He's a white N and I'm a black N, blondie" I told him that was the dumbest damn thing I'd ever heard in my life. I still think it's the dumbest damn thing I've ever heard.

 

[princesss]

But we're not equal. And I don't think that the way the n word is being used perpetuates inequality. I think the Supreme Court's decision on the VRA perpetuates inequality. But I think that reclaiming a word is a powerful act, and I think it's an incredibly important step. It shifts the meaning of the word, takes it from what oppressors used it for and shifts it to giving a voice to the oppressed that says, "No, screw you. We're not taking it."

 

[MAC-W]

I thought that these things were merely allegations as yet? About her treatment of the employee and the wedding issue? If the allegations are as yet unproven then it's a witch hunt and yes she is being treated too harshly. I thought we were all innocent until a jury pronounces you guilty. If the allegations are true then it's totally appalling and I wouldn't blame the companies for dropping her. But right now, isn't it a he-said/she-said situation? I guess it will go to court.

+1.

Totally agree with every word.

The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" seems to be missing from most postings on this thread, the media reports and the sponsoring companies behaviour.

 

[Matata]

The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" seems to be missing from most postings on this thread, the media reports and the sponsoring companies behaviour.

It's likely that the contracts she carries with sponsoring companies contain clauses about public relations issues in which case, even the hint of impropriety gives them valid reason for canceling the contract. They don't want to be seen as guilty by association and if the suit proves invalid, they can always renew her endorsements. Happens all the time in the celebrity world.

 

[rosetta]

I thought that these things were merely allegations as yet? About her treatment of the employee and the wedding issue? If the allegations are as yet unproven then it's a witch hunt and yes she is being treated too harshly. I thought we were all innocent until a jury pronounces you guilty. If the allegations are true then it's totally appalling and I wouldn't blame the companies for dropping her. But right now, isn't it a he-said/she-said situation? I guess it will go to court.

+1.

Totally agree with every word.

The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" seems to be missing from most postings on this thread, the media reports and the sponsoring companies behaviour.

Very true. If she is found guilty then I'm truly appalled at her clearly racist behaviour. Until then, I reserve all judgement.

Until this thread, I had no idea who she was!

 

[kenny]

I thought that these things were merely allegations as yet? About her treatment of the employee and the wedding issue? If the allegations are as yet unproven then it's a witch hunt and yes she is being treated too harshly. I thought we were all innocent until a jury pronounces you guilty. If the allegations are true then it's totally appalling and I wouldn't blame the companies for dropping her. But right now, isn't it a he-said/she-said situation? I guess it will go to court.

+1.

Totally agree with every word.

The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" seems to be missing from most postings on this thread, the media reports and the sponsoring companies behaviour.

Very true. If she is found guilty then I'm truly appalled at her clearly racist behaviour. Until then, I reserve all judgement.

Until this thread, I had no idea who she was!

I already posted a reply to Smith1942's post 17 hours ago, but I'll repeat it since apparently some people didn't read it. ...

What's happened to Deen is not about allegations.
It is about what she has already sworn in the legal proceedings.

There is a lawsuit in which a former employee is suing her for discrimination etc.

For this lawsuit Deen gave a sworn deposition in front of lawyers.

All that has happened to her is a reaction to what she said in her deposition, not a reaction to allegations of the trial.
Additionally she's said things on Youtube and gave a damaging interview on the Today show since her deposition was made public, and that is what the public is reacting to ... not to the allegations that are the subject of that employment trial.

 

[rosetta]

I thought that these things were merely allegations as yet? About her treatment of the employee and the wedding issue? If the allegations are as yet unproven then it's a witch hunt and yes she is being treated too harshly. I thought we were all innocent until a jury pronounces you guilty. If the allegations are true then it's totally appalling and I wouldn't blame the companies for dropping her. But right now, isn't it a he-said/she-said situation? I guess it will go to court.

+1.

Totally agree with every word.

The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" seems to be missing from most postings on this thread, the media reports and the sponsoring companies behaviour.

Very true. If she is found guilty then I'm truly appalled at her clearly racist behaviour. Until then, I reserve all judgement.

Until this thread, I had no idea who she was!

I already posted a reply to Smith1942 ...

I see. I have not read the whole thread, but I read the 30+ pages of the complaint. Is she a racist chef or not, on the basis of the interview (someone just please tell me!)

 

[rosetta]

Actually no don't bother. I'm leaving this thread as I have realised I'm not interested in anything but the trial outcome (and even then only mildly)

 

[Circe]

I change my vote. I'd started with her getting exactly what she deserved, now I lean towards it being not nearly, NOT NEARLY, harsh enough.

Why? Because this is a racist society, and her peeps are out in full force. Book sales? Up 1300%, and, no, not even with my poor math skills did I misplace a decimal point. Many of them make a point of saying that they don't cook - they just want to oppose "censorship."

She is free to say whatever asinine thing she wants. No one will arrest her for it. But that's not a pass from consequence - no one is obligated to continue fawning all over her if it's revealed she's kinda gross. Again, WHY is this so hard for some people to grasp? "Censorship," like "discrimination," has an actual strict dictionary definition!

::this is where I develop a facial twitch::

Link to a dude who collected some quotations from her Amazon reviews, which made my brain hurt: http://burger-eater.livejournal.com/998286.html

 

[momhappy]

I'm going to have to bow out too. I've said more than enough in terms of race and while I'm perfectly fine with others disagreeing with me, I just don't see this as a productive, on-line discussion. I also agree that someone s innocent until proven guilty and yes, that sentiment seems to be missing here. Whatever the outcome, I have little interest in Paula Deen to begin with, so it's nothing that I will feel strongly about one way or the other.

 

[Niel]

People keep saying that. " innocent until proven guilty "


I feel like Kenny is right, no one is reading his post, nor what this post is actually about.

 

[distracts]

She is free to say whatever asinine thing she wants. No one will arrest her for it. But that's not a pass from consequence - no one is obligated to continue fawning all over her if it's revealed she's kinda gross. Again, WHY is this so hard for some people to grasp? "Censorship," like "discrimination," has an actual strict dictionary definition!

Haha, yeah, as I always say, you're free to say stupid things, and I'm free to judge you for them.

 

[FrekeChild]

The joke is on those amazon reviewers. That book isn't getting printed. At least, not by Random House.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/29/b...s-book-deal-with-tv-chef-paula-deen.html?_r=0

EDIT:

Key quote: "Since last week, the Food Network, Smithfield Foods, Walmart, Target, Caesars Entertainment, QVC and the pharmaceutical company Novo Nordisk have decided to suspend or sever ties with Ms. Deen after her admission in a legal deposition that she had used racist language in the past and allowed racist, sexist, homophobic and anti-Semitic jokes in one of her restaurants. Ms. Deen was deposed on video as part of a discrimination lawsuit filed last year by a former employee."

Kenny is right. No one is actually reading WHY people are up in arms. It's because of the things she admitted to saying and doing in her deposition for the lawsuit, NOT the actual lawsuit itself.

 

[kenny]

I also agree that someone s innocent until proven guilty and yes, that sentiment seems to be missing here.

It's not missing.
It's just irrelevant.
All this resulted from her sworn deposition, not from assuming a guilty trial verdict.

So you agreed with the verdict for the OJ criminal trial?
Trials can produce wonky results because of technicalities, slick slimeball lawyers, or for many other reasons such as playing the race card which makes everyone go bonkers.

The sworn deposition is Deen's pure words under oath.
Unlike the trial outcome it cannot be twisted, interpreted and distorted by lawyers and a jury.
Regardless of the trial's outcome her testimony remains unchanged and it's a window into the woman.

If Dean is found innocent in the trial nothing changes because she is still guilty of what she said under oath.
She cannot un-ring this bell.