I hope you guy are happy with Affordable Care Act

[ksinger]

I shouldn't be held responsible for a 26 yrs old adult, but I'll do what ever I can to help her,and as for "blaming the parents" we can both agree on that topic!..why have children when you can't afford to raise them?

you are still not getting it, DF, and I fear it is another avoid and deflect maneuver: parents continuing to support their adult children in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed [as in your case] does not allow the children to learn to stand on their own and take consequences for their decisions. in the context in which I wrote "blame the parents" it was fully understood....taking it to move into another topic is the usual and if you want to start a thread on parents who cannot afford to have children and why they do , please do so.

and while, DF, I find it interesting that you lived in China for 2 months and had to endure a dirt floor, well, i'll feel more sympathy when you tell me you did field work for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to get food on the table.

DF, this thread has been misleading from the start. your daughter has access to health care insurance. she isn't being obstructed from getting health insurance and is instead CHOOSING to obstruct her own access to it and deciding to not pay for it. she is 26 years old. you can no longer micromanage her and her decisions. however, you have decided to make it easy for her to make these decisions by underwriting her lifestyle. your choice. it just gets old reading your writings on these types of occurrences because you never seem to understand your part in the situation. again, your choice: but please quit blaming others for your problems with your daughter and her decisions.

Thank you. More of us old-timers need to nail him every time he posts these things. The newbies don't know his history and always take it at face value, and poor little DF gets the attention he craves. And yes, as I said, my hypocrisy meter pegs every time DF posts about how everyone else's bad choices are the problem.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, I don't know what plan she'd be covered under.....but if she doesn't get insurance then she must take the consequences of her decision. and it is HER decision. at 26 she is no longer a child that you nor can she plead that she "didn't know".

What consequences?... When you are poor in America there are no consequences. She qualifies for food stamp and a free cell phone, but yes, I'm still paying all her bills...her auto insurance, her cell phone, her schooling, etc,etc...

DF, you really are totally over-qualified for "Hypocrite of The Year".

Hey, why break a winning streak?...

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Elliot86|1396202411|
Why the hostility DF? I don't know poverty because I didn't grow up in a village in China?[/quote]



No hostility! I just wanna point out to the fact that living under the poverty line in the U.S. is much better than other parts of the world..

 

[ksinger]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

Newsflash DF - premiums went up every year BEFORE the ACA went into effect. Which you would know if YOU actually worked.

And while you're at it, why don't you just quit pretending you know jack about the ACA. You very obviously do NOT.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

Newsflash DF - premiums went up every year BEFORE the ACA went into effect. Which you would know if YOU actually worked.

And while you're at it, why don't you just quit pretending you know jack about the ACA. You very obviously do NOT.

Neither does our lawmakers in DC .. Their more confused about ACA than I am...

 

[monarch64]

DF predicted/was correct about the housing bubble way back before it happened.

Maybe he is helping his daughter a little too much now, but would any of you just send your kid out to fend for themselves if they weren't equipped? Doubt it. Calling his daughter lazy whether that's tongue in cheek or not is mean and out of line. DF has made his share of bs comments here but I've never seen him call any of your kids or you names.

DF, my dad and mom paid for my education, my car, etc. They wanted to send me into the world with a fair chance as they saw it. I had health insurance til I graduated college. Then, I was without for 90 days when I got my first salaried "professional" job. During that 90 days, I fell on black ice and broke my ankle. I had to have surgery. I ran up a medical bill totaling nearly $8k. I paid it all off by myself (oh, and my mom bartered with my surgeon by making her a custom quilt), but it took me 2 years. I got married. My parents paid for my wedding. My marriage ended in divorce several years later. I came home with NOTHING. I had to sell my e-ring, my expensive handbags, clothing, etc. just to make ends meet. My parents were kind enough to let me (at 31) stay with them for a few months. They wouldn't co-sign for me for a car loan. My boss at a job I was fortunate enough to get through a temp agency co-signed for me. I went through a lot of crap to re-establish myself. My parents thought of it as tough love. And I respect them for that. They were certainly in a financial place to give me the world again, but they chose not to, knowing that I needed to learn and understand how the world really works.

That said, I am really unhappy with the ACA. I think it's a piece of shit product that is being forced down our throats. I can't afford to pay for a p.o.s. product as a middle class citizen. $250 for a crap plan with a $5k deductible is a CRIME. $50 copay? Eff you. We are paying the penalty this year for me and socking away every spare cent in a OMG health savings account -yes they still exist.

 

[ksinger]

DF predicted/was correct about the housing bubble way back before it happened.

Maybe he is helping his daughter a little too much now, but would any of you just send your kid out to fend for themselves if they weren't equipped? Doubt it. Calling his daughter lazy whether that's tongue in cheek or not is mean and out of line. DF has made his share of bs comments here but I've never seen him call any of your kids or you names.

DF, my dad and mom paid for my education, my car, etc. They wanted to send me into the world with a fair chance as they saw it. I had health insurance til I graduated college. Then, I was without for 90 days when I got my first salaried "professional" job. During that 90 days, I fell on black ice and broke my ankle. I had to have surgery. I ran up a medical bill totaling nearly $8k. I paid it all off by myself (oh, and my mom bartered with my surgeon by making her a custom quilt), but it took me 2 years. I got married. My parents paid for my wedding. My marriage ended in divorce several years later. I came home with NOTHING. I had to sell my e-ring, my expensive handbags, clothing, etc. just to make ends meet. My parents were kind enough to let me (at 31) stay with them for a few months. They wouldn't co-sign for me for a car loan. My boss at a job I was fortunate enough to get through a temp agency co-signed for me. I went through a lot of crap to re-establish myself. My parents thought of it as tough love. And I respect them for that. They were certainly in a financial place to give me the world again, but they chose not to, knowing that I needed to learn and understand how the world really works.

That said, I am really unhappy with the ACA. I think it's a piece of shit product that is being forced down our throats. I can't afford to pay for a p.o.s. product as a middle class citizen. $250 for a crap plan with a $5k deductible is a CRIME. $50 copay? Eff you. We are paying the penalty this year for me and socking away every spare cent in a OMG health savings account -yes they still exist.

Oh fer crying out loud. I'm not being "MEAN'. And this isn't about his daughter. I'm applying DF's own attitude towards others back at him and his. He has a long history on this site as having zero compassion for people in bad circumstances (because HE lived in a house with a dirt floor for 2 months) and always ALWAYS assumes that they could be doing better than they are. He assumes everyone on public assistance is lazy and that they COULD be working but won't because there are "no consequences for being poor in America". Why are his family members supposed to be immune to the yardstick he applies to others? Why is compassion only reserved for HIS daughter? Apparently he's not the only one here missing the point.

If he comes in here and starts a thread about how crappy the ACA is because his daughter can't get insurance boo hoo, when the reality is that she REFUSES to get it while he is still supporting her, then he can exepct to have people call hearty hi ho BS on him. The ACA may not be the best thing ever, but it's not bad because he refuses to understand it and his daughter refuses to use it.

 

[monarch64]

DF predicted/was correct about the housing bubble way back before it happened.

Maybe he is helping his daughter a little too much now, but would any of you just send your kid out to fend for themselves if they weren't equipped? Doubt it. Calling his daughter lazy whether that's tongue in cheek or not is mean and out of line. DF has made his share of bs comments here but I've never seen him call any of your kids or you names.

DF, my dad and mom paid for my education, my car, etc. They wanted to send me into the world with a fair chance as they saw it. I had health insurance til I graduated college. Then, I was without for 90 days when I got my first salaried "professional" job. During that 90 days, I fell on black ice and broke my ankle. I had to have surgery. I ran up a medical bill totaling nearly $8k. I paid it all off by myself (oh, and my mom bartered with my surgeon by making her a custom quilt), but it took me 2 years. I got married. My parents paid for my wedding. My marriage ended in divorce several years later. I came home with NOTHING. I had to sell my e-ring, my expensive handbags, clothing, etc. just to make ends meet. My parents were kind enough to let me (at 31) stay with them for a few months. They wouldn't co-sign for me for a car loan. My boss at a job I was fortunate enough to get through a temp agency co-signed for me. I went through a lot of crap to re-establish myself. My parents thought of it as tough love. And I respect them for that. They were certainly in a financial place to give me the world again, but they chose not to, knowing that I needed to learn and understand how the world really works.

That said, I am really unhappy with the ACA. I think it's a piece of shit product that is being forced down our throats. I can't afford to pay for a p.o.s. product as a middle class citizen. $250 for a crap plan with a $5k deductible is a CRIME. $50 copay? Eff you. We are paying the penalty this year for me and socking away every spare cent in a OMG health savings account -yes they still exist.

Oh fer crying out loud. I'm not being "MEAN'. And this isn't about his daughter. I'm applying DF's own attitude towards others back at him and his. He has a long history on this site as having zero compassion for people in bad circumstances (because HE lived in a house with a dirt floor for 2 months) and always ALWAYS assumes that they could be doing better than they are. He assumes everyone on public assistance is lazy and that they COULD be working but won't because there are "no consequences for being poor in America". Why are his family members supposed to be immune to the yardstick he applies to others? Why is compassion only reserved for HIS daughter? Apparently he's not the only one here missing the point.

If he comes in here and starts a thread about how crappy the ACA is because his daughter can't get insurance boo hoo, when the reality is that she REFUSES to get it while he is still supporting her, then he can exepct to have people call hearty hi ho BS on him. The ACA may not be the best thing ever, but it's not bad because he refuses to understand it and his daughter refuses to use it.

You're right.

 

[TooPatient]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

We have a friend who is now uninsured due to this. He's the sort to have no mortgage, no car payment, no debt of any form, AND sizable savings. Doing contract work and volunteer work because he can afford to retire now (just barely 50) if he feels like it.

He was told what his premiums would be and they are just WAY too high for him to afford without cashing in retirement accounts or selling his house (moderate house in mid-range expense area so it isn't even like he's got some huge monstrosity).

So he's now stuck paying the penalty AND uninsured for the first time in his life.

 

[nkarma]

Missy, I am very young & healthy and to compare either the US and UK system is probably fruitless for my own case. Which is of course a blessing. I have also always been covered thanks to my parents insurance, growing up in a middle class family & being expected to get a college degree & earn a good living, and then working as a professional and being covered by my employer's insurance as part of my compensation package.

The fact that your friends have to get private healthcare is of course understandable. A lot of people have it here through their employers just like in the US. The public system isn't supposed to be the Rolls Royce of healthcare. "Socialized" medicine does not take away anyone's ability to get private health insurance. The same type of professionals are offered it as part of their compensation package as they are in the US. The biggest benefit to me personally which others may not see care about is the seeing how quality of life for people who are not typically insured or have pre-existing conditions (anyone, young people, low income people & their children) is better. I don't know how to explain it but people just are healthier, happier. I live in London and the number of homeless people compared to major cities in the states is a millionth of a percent. That's because the mentally ill have access to healthcare & support they need.

One final question...Do your friends who complain of long waits prefer the US system. Would they rather live there & have access to the US healthcare system?

It's awesome that you have so few homeless people in London and I emphatically agree that access to healthcare should be a number one priority for any country. I am just pointing out that there is dissatisfaction with aspects of healthcare almost everywhere I know. I certainly (at this point in time at least) would not move to another country because of their healthcare system because I am not convinced I would get better care anywhere else and I doubt any of my friends would move for that sole reason either (though a few of my Canadian friends have moved here since because they are americanophiles). My friends who had the resources came here to have their "elective" surgery done in a more timely fashion so for them it was a win win.

One example that stands out in my mind that speaks very highly of healthcare in Europe is something that my good friend Maureen's sister went through in her travels. Her sister developed a retinal detachment somewhere in Europe (sorry cannot remember where and it was over a decade ago) and she was taken to the hospital where a retinal surgeon successfully reattached her retina. I don't remember the bill or any of the details but I certainly remember being ultra impressed that it was a. affordable and b. they took excellent care of her though she was a US citizen on vacation there. That will always stand out in my mind.

As we get older we become much more vulnerable health wise and getting quality care is no longer just an nice idea but a necessity as one ages. Personally the thought of not being able to access the doctors we need is terrifying and just as scary is not being able to get the doctors we need on a timely basis or getting the procedures we need for quality of life because it isn't in the "budget".

One personal concern (for me and a few of my friends who live here) is that a few of my doctors accept no insurance at this time and never did. They do not have to. So I pay out of pocket (around $350 each visit) and my current insurance company reimburses me at 70% of the "usual and customary" fee which is a lot less of course but I usually end up getting around $150- $175 back which is a lot better than nothing. However under this new system I might not get anything back if I go out of network. Not sure I will be able to afford $350 a month for just one of my doctors. Yes, I have to see him every month for a specific health issue and I have been to many other specialists who are crap and he is the one I trust and have been going to for well over a decade now. So this is a big problem for me if this happens.

I have been working hard for over 30 years now if you include my education -college, graduate school, residency and out in the work force contributing to my community for 25 years exactly this coming May 2014. I work hard to make a life for myself and my family and give back to my community. I serve the underserved population that few others want to give care to and I work hard to meet that challenge. In fact the population I give care to is covered by medicare and medicaid and I am also very concerned what is going to happen to those resources for them and their health needs. And is it fair that now I might have to give up getting the care that I not only want but truly need because the new system won't allow it or because my finances will no longer allow it because of the new regulations in place?

I don't expect solutions but am just sharing a few of my thoughts and concerns and fears. I have no ill will towards anyone and hope everyone gets that quality care we all deserve (as I believe health care is a right) but what I see happening is that instead of everyone getting good care only the rich few will continue getting that (because they have the financial resources that will allow that) and most of us will have worse care than before. Some will at least have coverage that didn't before but now perhaps at the expense of others who have worked hard their whole lives and now just when they are older and really need that care will be the ones who suffer. The middle class once again are the ones that pay the price literally and figuratively.

While you are young and healthy now nkarma remember there will be a time when that might change and the need to have quality care when you need it will be critical. I am pleased you are satisfied with your current healthcare situation and I wish that for everyone all over the world. I just want a system that works without the political b***s*** getting in way. And the way they are going about it is sad IMO. It could have been/should have been done differently and with better results. But I guess time will tell if our new healthcare system will be an improvement or not. Let's revisit this thread in a year or 2.

Hi Missy, I am enjoying this convo. Great story with a happy ending for your traveling friend. Also, I know healthcare travel is a very much growing industry. People are coming into and travelling out of the US to get procedures by the thousands.
I think most agree the ACA should be done differently. I think that is true of many bills, but whether they are possible to pass and implement are another thing. The ACA has increased access to healthcare but does nothing to reduce costs by making care competitive, etc... Time did a great 30-40 page spread on this last year.

I have no doubt that if I was hit by a bus tomorrow (fingers crossed this won't happen my poor road crossing skills) that I would receive the same or better care than in the US with my private insurance. And luckily because I choose not to have private insurance here, I will not get a $10-30K hospital bill as I would in the US without private ins.

Why do you think you will get worse care now or have less access to the care you need? It isn't clear to me so I started speculating but didn't want to put words in your mouth.

 

[movie zombie]

DF predicted/was correct about the housing bubble way back before it happened.
Maybe he is helping his daughter a little too much now, but would any of you just send your kid out to fend for themselves if they weren't equipped? Doubt it. Calling his daughter lazy whether that's tongue in cheek or not is mean and out of line. DF has made his share of bs comments here but I've never seen him call any of your kids or you names.
DF, my dad and mom paid for my education, my car, etc. They wanted to send me into the world with a fair chance as they saw it. I had health insurance til I graduated college. Then, I was without for 90 days when I got my first salaried "professional" job. During that 90 days, I fell on black ice and broke my ankle. I had to have surgery. I ran up a medical bill totaling nearly $8k. I paid it all off by myself (oh, and my mom bartered with my surgeon by making her a custom quilt), but it took me 2 years. I got married. My parents paid for my wedding. My marriage ended in divorce several years later. I came home with NOTHING. I had to sell my e-ring, my expensive handbags, clothing, etc. just to make ends meet. My parents were kind enough to let me (at 31) stay with them for a few months. They wouldn't co-sign for me for a car loan. My boss at a job I was fortunate enough to get through a temp agency co-signed for me. I went through a lot of crap to re-establish myself. My parents thought of it as tough love. And I respect them for that. They were certainly in a financial place to give me the world again, but they chose not to, knowing that I needed to learn and understand how the world really works.
That said, I am really unhappy with the ACA. I think it's a piece of shit product that is being forced down our throats. I can't afford to pay for a p.o.s. product as a middle class citizen. $250 for a crap plan with a $5k deductible is a CRIME. $50 copay? Eff you. We are paying the penalty this year for me and socking away every spare cent in a OMG health savings account -yes they still exist.

Oh fer crying out loud. I'm not being "MEAN'. And this isn't about his daughter. I'm applying DF's own attitude towards others back at him and his. He has a long history on this site as having zero compassion for people in bad circumstances (because HE lived in a house with a dirt floor for 2 months) and always ALWAYS assumes that they could be doing better than they are. He assumes everyone on public assistance is lazy and that they COULD be working but won't because there are "no consequences for being poor in America". Why are his family members supposed to be immune to the yardstick he applies to others? Why is compassion only reserved for HIS daughter? Apparently he's not the only one here missing the point.

If he comes in here and starts a thread about how crappy the ACA is because his daughter can't get insurance boo hoo, when the reality is that she REFUSES to get it while he is still supporting her, then he can exepct to have people call hearty hi ho BS on him. The ACA may not be the best thing ever, but it's not bad because he refuses to understand it and his daughter refuses to use it.

You're right.

yes, she is.
according to DF all people who work for the government/state are lazy but his wife and other daughter work for the state of California.....they of course are an exception and are not lazy but work hard. and in this latest he claims his daughter can get food stamps?! when he is supporting her?! if she did then she lied to get a benefit that we the taxpayers pay for....remember that DF also thinks that those getting food stamps are a drain on the taxpayers.

DF's bait and switch style of posting is historical....and hysterical if one is in the right frame of mind. I usually don't participate in his threads any more unless I see someone like ksinger getting involved. do I really want to know what color panties you are all wearing today? another of his infamous requests for info.....makes me think he's "getting off" on some of the threads.

 

[missy]

Missy, I am very young & healthy and to compare either the US and UK system is probably fruitless for my own case. Which is of course a blessing. I have also always been covered thanks to my parents insurance, growing up in a middle class family & being expected to get a college degree & earn a good living, and then working as a professional and being covered by my employer's insurance as part of my compensation package.

The fact that your friends have to get private healthcare is of course understandable. A lot of people have it here through their employers just like in the US. The public system isn't supposed to be the Rolls Royce of healthcare. "Socialized" medicine does not take away anyone's ability to get private health insurance. The same type of professionals are offered it as part of their compensation package as they are in the US. The biggest benefit to me personally which others may not see care about is the seeing how quality of life for people who are not typically insured or have pre-existing conditions (anyone, young people, low income people & their children) is better. I don't know how to explain it but people just are healthier, happier. I live in London and the number of homeless people compared to major cities in the states is a millionth of a percent. That's because the mentally ill have access to healthcare & support they need.

One final question...Do your friends who complain of long waits prefer the US system. Would they rather live there & have access to the US healthcare system?

It's awesome that you have so few homeless people in London and I emphatically agree that access to healthcare should be a number one priority for any country. I am just pointing out that there is dissatisfaction with aspects of healthcare almost everywhere I know. I certainly (at this point in time at least) would not move to another country because of their healthcare system because I am not convinced I would get better care anywhere else and I doubt any of my friends would move for that sole reason either (though a few of my Canadian friends have moved here since because they are americanophiles). My friends who had the resources came here to have their "elective" surgery done in a more timely fashion so for them it was a win win.

One example that stands out in my mind that speaks very highly of healthcare in Europe is something that my good friend Maureen's sister went through in her travels. Her sister developed a retinal detachment somewhere in Europe (sorry cannot remember where and it was over a decade ago) and she was taken to the hospital where a retinal surgeon successfully reattached her retina. I don't remember the bill or any of the details but I certainly remember being ultra impressed that it was a. affordable and b. they took excellent care of her though she was a US citizen on vacation there. That will always stand out in my mind.

As we get older we become much more vulnerable health wise and getting quality care is no longer just an nice idea but a necessity as one ages. Personally the thought of not being able to access the doctors we need is terrifying and just as scary is not being able to get the doctors we need on a timely basis or getting the procedures we need for quality of life because it isn't in the "budget".

One personal concern (for me and a few of my friends who live here) is that a few of my doctors accept no insurance at this time and never did. They do not have to. So I pay out of pocket (around $350 each visit) and my current insurance company reimburses me at 70% of the "usual and customary" fee which is a lot less of course but I usually end up getting around $150- $175 back which is a lot better than nothing. However under this new system I might not get anything back if I go out of network. Not sure I will be able to afford $350 a month for just one of my doctors. Yes, I have to see him every month for a specific health issue and I have been to many other specialists who are crap and he is the one I trust and have been going to for well over a decade now. So this is a big problem for me if this happens.

I have been working hard for over 30 years now if you include my education -college, graduate school, residency and out in the work force contributing to my community for 25 years exactly this coming May 2014. I work hard to make a life for myself and my family and give back to my community. I serve the underserved population that few others want to give care to and I work hard to meet that challenge. In fact the population I give care to is covered by medicare and medicaid and I am also very concerned what is going to happen to those resources for them and their health needs. And is it fair that now I might have to give up getting the care that I not only want but truly need because the new system won't allow it or because my finances will no longer allow it because of the new regulations in place?

I don't expect solutions but am just sharing a few of my thoughts and concerns and fears. I have no ill will towards anyone and hope everyone gets that quality care we all deserve (as I believe health care is a right) but what I see happening is that instead of everyone getting good care only the rich few will continue getting that (because they have the financial resources that will allow that) and most of us will have worse care than before. Some will at least have coverage that didn't before but now perhaps at the expense of others who have worked hard their whole lives and now just when they are older and really need that care will be the ones who suffer. The middle class once again are the ones that pay the price literally and figuratively.

While you are young and healthy now nkarma remember there will be a time when that might change and the need to have quality care when you need it will be critical. I am pleased you are satisfied with your current healthcare situation and I wish that for everyone all over the world. I just want a system that works without the political b***s*** getting in way. And the way they are going about it is sad IMO. It could have been/should have been done differently and with better results. But I guess time will tell if our new healthcare system will be an improvement or not. Let's revisit this thread in a year or 2.

Hi Missy, I am enjoying this convo. Great story with a happy ending for your traveling friend. Also, I know healthcare travel is a very much growing industry. People are coming into and travelling out of the US to get procedures by the thousands.
I think most agree the ACA should be done differently. I think that is true of many bills, but whether they are possible to pass and implement are another thing. The ACA has increased access to healthcare but does nothing to reduce costs by making care competitive, etc... Time did a great 30-40 page spread on this last year.

I have no doubt that if I was hit by a bus tomorrow (fingers crossed this won't happen my poor road crossing skills) that I would receive the same or better care than in the US with my private insurance. And luckily because I choose not to have private insurance here, I will not get a $10-30K hospital bill as I would in the US without private ins.

Why do you think you will get worse care now or have less access to the care you need? It isn't clear to me so I started speculating but didn't want to put words in your mouth.

Hi nkarma, I am enjoying our conversation as well. I am concerned on 2 levels. One is personal and one is for others namely my patients for whom I care for- literally and figuratively.

To address personal concern first:
Speculation here is (amongst my friends and colleagues many of whom are in healthcare) that health insurance companies will no longer allow any out of network benefits. That is, if you choose to go to a physician that does not accept any (or your) health insurance you are out of luck. You will be responsible for the bill in full. Which just isn't doable for most of us.
And as others have stated our premiums (already high IMO) will most certainly go up and the amount we are allowed in our FSA most certainly will go down. Already we go over the amount of healthcare dollars we are allowed to use for tax deductions so not only are we spending a lot for healthcare we are also paying uber taxes on that money. Money we are personally spending on healthcare-doctor's visits, meds and medical procedures (like the last 2 endoscopies I had to have).

Addressing the concern for others whom I care for which is just as important a concern:
The patients I serve (medicare and medicaid since the people I care for are intellectually disabled) will suffer many health benefit cuts including not only services but necessary prescription meds. I see that happening already actually (not sure that is Obamacare related but it amped up most recently). Often when I prescribe a necessary med (as per my medical expertise) the insurance companies in an effort to cut costs challenge us as healthcare professionals and deny coverage. So we need to do prior authorization which often does get approved but takes man power and time and money to do so. And sometimes it does not get approved and then I must use a less effective drug. Makes me on behalf of my patients for whom I am an advocate of course.

As I wrote before only time will tell what the true outcome of Obamacare will be and of course I certainly hope there can be adjustments to improve healthcare for all as weaknesses play out concerning the bill. It takes time to get things right and the best I can hope for at this time is that in time it will be a better bill. But right now I am very concerned what is to be. As I wrote before and will not rehash in any detail it seems just when many of us really need quality healthcare we may not get what we need. And when time plays out let us revisit this thread and see what the real life outcome is for those of us who need that quality care to be affordable for all and not just the poor and very rich.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

We have a friend who is now uninsured due to this. He's the sort to have no mortgage, no car payment, no debt of any form, AND sizable savings. Doing contract work and volunteer work because he can afford to retire now (just barely 50) if he feels like it.

He was told what his premiums would be and they are just WAY too high for him to afford without cashing in retirement accounts or selling his house (moderate house in mid-range expense area so it isn't even like he's got some huge monstrosity).

So he's now stuck paying the penalty AND uninsured for the first time in his life.

I'm not quite understanding this. My savings account/retirement account would be heftier too if I didn't pay my health insurance premium. If he has a large savings account that he is contributing too then there's no excuse not to pay for health insurance. I think this is part of the problem - people just don't want to pay for it. I've been paying for it for myself and my family for years. I have no sympathy for this - unless there is something I'm not understanding here!

 

[JulieN]

Do I have it right: one of your daughters can't get a job, so she went back to school. Presumably you aren't talking about this one, since I think she should have student health insurance.

This must be your other daughter? Regardless,

 

[ksinger]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

We have a friend who is now uninsured due to this. He's the sort to have no mortgage, no car payment, no debt of any form, AND sizable savings. Doing contract work and volunteer work because he can afford to retire now (just barely 50) if he feels like it.

He was told what his premiums would be and they are just WAY too high for him to afford without cashing in retirement accounts or selling his house (moderate house in mid-range expense area so it isn't even like he's got some huge monstrosity).

So he's now stuck paying the penalty AND uninsured for the first time in his life.

I'm not quite understanding this. My savings account/retirement account would be heftier too if I didn't pay my health insurance premium. If he has a large savings account that he is contributing too then there's no excuse not to pay for health insurance. I think this is part of the problem - people just don't want to pay for it. I've been paying for it for myself and my family for years. I have no sympathy for this - unless there is something I'm not understanding here!

Yeah, I'm wondering about the details on this one too. NOW he can't afford health insurance? So, what, he HAD it until just now - lingering from a previous job (I seriously doubt) or an individual policy? And now - blaming the ACA - it is so much more than it was, that he can't afford it?

At 50, he can't be getting Medicare, so it had to be one or the other above, neither of which would have been cheap BEFORE the ACA. Are you telling us that a guy allegedly smart and driven enough to essentially retire at 50, didn't understand that premiums were going to just continue to increase, as they always have? (The Kaiser Family Foundation noted in 2010, that insurance premiums increased 131% between 1999 and 2009, and the CBO estimated the 17% of the nation's economy was going to health care. Insane, unsustainable numbers, both of them).

I'm with MissGotRocks, something smells with this story. It sounds as if his early retirement never took insurance costs into account in the first place, because they were going to be there whether the ACA was in place or not, and an individual policy from 50 to Medicare age was NEVER going to be cheap.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1396260600|
Oh fer crying out loud. I'm not being "MEAN'. And this isn't about his daughter. I'm applying DF's own attitude towards others back at him and his. He has a long history on this site as having zero compassion for people in bad circumstances (because HE lived in a house with a dirt floor for 2 months) and always ALWAYS assumes that they could be doing better than they are. He assumes everyone on public assistance is lazy and that they COULD be working but won't because there are "no consequences for being poor in America". Why are his family members supposed to be immune to the yardstick he applies to others? Why is compassion only reserved for HIS daughter? Apparently he's not the only one here missing the point.

[/quote]


Not all, only the ones whom are able to work but chose not to, instead chose to make it a career. Why work? ...when you can receive all these incentives like free housing, food stamps, free medicals, free cell phones. what's next?..a free car? .no wonder so many people wanna stay on public assistance.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="movie zombie|1396278780|
yes, she is.
according to DF all people who work for the government/state are lazy but his wife and other daughter work for the state of California.....they of course are an exception and are not lazy but work hard. and in this latest he claims his daughter can get food stamps?! when he is supporting her?! if she did then she lied to get a benefit that we the taxpayers pay for....remember that DF also thinks that those getting food stamps are a drain on the taxpayers.

[/quote]


She does qualify if I don't support her, so no, she will not apply for food stamps.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Do I have it right: one of your daughters can't get a job, so she went back to school. Presumably you aren't talking about this one, since I think she should have student health insurance.

This must be your other daughter? Regardless,

yes the younger one.

 

[Karl_K]

Can we please stop talking about DF and talk about the ACA and health insurance before this thread gets closed down.

My opinion is no matter what system is put in place some people are going to be harmed by it and some helped.
I think that not enough time was spent on the consequences of the law before it was passed.
It was forced through and is a very problematic law that does not address all the issues.

 

[ksinger]

[quote="ksinger|1396260600|
Oh fer crying out loud. I'm not being "MEAN'. And this isn't about his daughter. I'm applying DF's own attitude towards others back at him and his. He has a long history on this site as having zero compassion for people in bad circumstances (because HE lived in a house with a dirt floor for 2 months) and always ALWAYS assumes that they could be doing better than they are. He assumes everyone on public assistance is lazy and that they COULD be working but won't because there are "no consequences for being poor in America". Why are his family members supposed to be immune to the yardstick he applies to others? Why is compassion only reserved for HIS daughter? Apparently he's not the only one here missing the point.

Not all, only the ones whom are able to work but chose not to, instead chose to make it a career. Why work? ...when you can receive all these incentives like free housing, food stamps, free medicals, free cell phones. what's next?..a free car? .no wonder so many people wanna stay on public assistance.[/quote]

Your reply pretty much just made my point. Again. Zero effort on my part. Amazing, really.

I'll give ya consistency. Of the foolish variety...

(little hint: you just described you and your daughter)

 

[ksinger]

Can we please stop talking about DF and talk about the ACA and health insurance before this thread gets closed down.

My opinion is no matter what system is put in place some people are going to be harmed by it and some helped.
I think that not enough time was spent on the consequences of the law before it was passed.
It was forced through and is a very problematic law that does not address all the issues.

The problem is, Karl, that certain groups were and are insanely invested in the status quo. But when, as I mentioned above, premiums went up 131% in 10 years, with forward projections showing no end in sight, SOMETHING had to be done. Health care costs were and are, still devouring a huge chunk of our GDP. The most reasonable solution would have been to go to a single payor like every other country like ours has. But you have the insurance lobby on the one hand, and the crazies screaming "EVIL SOCIALISM!!" on the other. So getting ANY change through was going to be incredibly difficult, and likely to not be the best. The republicans would have been quite thrilled to shut anything down and continue on the road we've been on for the last 20 years, a road that is NOT sustainable. Unless you're a 1% and friends, of course. You know, like congressmen?

I for one am glad we MOVED finally, rather than sitting still and wringing our hands. It wasn't going to get better going the way we were, so any change is to be welcomed. At least it's MOVEMENT in a different direction.

You cannot seriously tell me we could have continued going as we were. What do YOU think we should have done?

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1396260600|
Oh fer crying out loud. I'm not being "MEAN'. And this isn't about his daughter. I'm applying DF's own attitude towards others back at him and his. He has a long history on this site as having zero compassion for people in bad circumstances (because HE lived in a house with a dirt floor for 2 months) and always ALWAYS assumes that they could be doing better than they are. He assumes everyone on public assistance is lazy and that they COULD be working but won't because there are "no consequences for being poor in America". Why are his family members supposed to be immune to the yardstick he applies to others? Why is compassion only reserved for HIS daughter? Apparently he's not the only one here missing the point.

Not all, only the ones whom are able to work but chose not to, instead chose to make it a career. Why work? ...when you can receive all these incentives like free housing, food stamps, free medicals, free cell phones. what's next?..a free car? .no wonder so many people wanna stay on public assistance.

Your reply pretty much just made my point. Again. Zero effort on my part. Amazing, really.

I'll give ya consistency. Of the foolish variety...

(little hint: you just described you and your daughter)[/quote]
...as far as I know we are not on any public assistance.

 

[Merefrank]

I'm the one who posted the story about her husband dying of epilepsy due to lack of health care and I have been following this thread avidly.

I just have to say, that on a forum devoted to one of the most expensive, non necessary luxury items there is, my heart is touched, thrilled, and frankly amazed at all the caring people who actually have empathy for their fellow human beings !

So many people once " they have theirs" conveniently rewrite history where it was all due to their amazing talent and skills, no luck or help or timing involved. I expected the majority of responses to be overwhelmingly pro- screw the poor it's their own fault.

You guys have restored a little bit of my faith in humanity, you ROCK !!!!!

 

[TooPatient]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

We have a friend who is now uninsured due to this. He's the sort to have no mortgage, no car payment, no debt of any form, AND sizable savings. Doing contract work and volunteer work because he can afford to retire now (just barely 50) if he feels like it.

He was told what his premiums would be and they are just WAY too high for him to afford without cashing in retirement accounts or selling his house (moderate house in mid-range expense area so it isn't even like he's got some huge monstrosity).

So he's now stuck paying the penalty AND uninsured for the first time in his life.

I'm not quite understanding this. My savings account/retirement account would be heftier too if I didn't pay my health insurance premium. If he has a large savings account that he is contributing too then there's no excuse not to pay for health insurance. I think this is part of the problem - people just don't want to pay for it. I've been paying for it for myself and my family for years. I have no sympathy for this - unless there is something I'm not understanding here!

Yeah, I'm wondering about the details on this one too. NOW he can't afford health insurance? So, what, he HAD it until just now - lingering from a previous job (I seriously doubt) or an individual policy? And now - blaming the ACA - it is so much more than it was, that he can't afford it?

At 50, he can't be getting Medicare, so it had to be one or the other above, neither of which would have been cheap BEFORE the ACA. Are you telling us that a guy allegedly smart and driven enough to essentially retire at 50, didn't understand that premiums were going to just continue to increase, as they always have? (The Kaiser Family Foundation noted in 2010, that insurance premiums increased 131% between 1999 and 2009, and the CBO estimated the 17% of the nation's economy was going to health care. Insane, unsustainable numbers, both of them).

I'm with MissGotRocks, something smells with this story. It sounds as if his early retirement never took insurance costs into account in the first place, because they were going to be there whether the ACA was in place or not, and an individual policy from 50 to Medicare age was NEVER going to be cheap.

He's been paying some private plan a substantial amount in premiums (not to mention deductibles and co-pays etc) for several years after choosing to retire. He's not contributing anything more to his savings and retirement. He's now living on those accounts (and was for several years prior to the ACA stuff coming up) plus some token amount for contracting here and there (mostly doing volunteer work for non-profits).

The plan he was on got canceled -- not for him but the entire plan is no longer offered. He tried to get even just "emergency" coverage through this new system and it was far more expensive than the nicer plan he'd been on privately.

 

[ksinger]

Mark my word...there will more uninsured people under this ACA program then in the past b/c many of the "middle class income household" will not be able to afford the raising premiums.

We have a friend who is now uninsured due to this. He's the sort to have no mortgage, no car payment, no debt of any form, AND sizable savings. Doing contract work and volunteer work because he can afford to retire now (just barely 50) if he feels like it.

He was told what his premiums would be and they are just WAY too high for him to afford without cashing in retirement accounts or selling his house (moderate house in mid-range expense area so it isn't even like he's got some huge monstrosity).

So he's now stuck paying the penalty AND uninsured for the first time in his life.

I'm not quite understanding this. My savings account/retirement account would be heftier too if I didn't pay my health insurance premium. If he has a large savings account that he is contributing too then there's no excuse not to pay for health insurance. I think this is part of the problem - people just don't want to pay for it. I've been paying for it for myself and my family for years. I have no sympathy for this - unless there is something I'm not understanding here!

Yeah, I'm wondering about the details on this one too. NOW he can't afford health insurance? So, what, he HAD it until just now - lingering from a previous job (I seriously doubt) or an individual policy? And now - blaming the ACA - it is so much more than it was, that he can't afford it?

At 50, he can't be getting Medicare, so it had to be one or the other above, neither of which would have been cheap BEFORE the ACA. Are you telling us that a guy allegedly smart and driven enough to essentially retire at 50, didn't understand that premiums were going to just continue to increase, as they always have? (The Kaiser Family Foundation noted in 2010, that insurance premiums increased 131% between 1999 and 2009, and the CBO estimated the 17% of the nation's economy was going to health care. Insane, unsustainable numbers, both of them).

I'm with MissGotRocks, something smells with this story. It sounds as if his early retirement never took insurance costs into account in the first place, because they were going to be there whether the ACA was in place or not, and an individual policy from 50 to Medicare age was NEVER going to be cheap.

He's been paying some private plan a substantial amount in premiums (not to mention deductibles and co-pays etc) for several years after choosing to retire. He's not contributing anything more to his savings and retirement. He's now living on those accounts (and was for several years prior to the ACA stuff coming up) plus some token amount for contracting here and there (mostly doing volunteer work for non-profits).

The plan he was on got canceled -- not for him but the entire plan is no longer offered. He tried to get even just "emergency" coverage through this new system and it was far more expensive than the nicer plan he'd been on privately.

Without knowing, I suspect his plan was not quite as delightful as he thought and was a lot more bare-bones, since most of the group and individual cancellations have been due to the cancelled plans not meeting the ACA criteria in some way, like having clearly defined stop losses on out of pocket costs (an area where the insurance industry was very underhanded and deceptive), covering prescription drugs, mental health coverage, maternity care, and spending at least 80% of subscriber premiums on actual medical care rather than admin and profit. Maybe he didn't need any meds, maternity care, or a shrink, but those things must be offered under the ACA. People clinging to those policies has been one of the many wonders of this process - here they have a plan that really is almost no coverage at all - is in essence "junk insurance", and doesn't really protect against financial ruin, but they stubbornly insist that THAT is the plan they want.

(It's kinda like I do the math every year or so on my insurance - do I take the higher deductible and lower premium? or higher up-front premium and lower deductible? It very much depends on my individual situation. One thing I can promise you, no matter how good your health at the moment, cheap-dating your insurance after 50 is a really stupid thing to do. Even the healthiest of my friends are now starting to develop some problem or other, either old injury, or family problem is finally manifesting.)

As for "emergency" coverage, from what I read there is no such thing for anyone over 30, only under. He would have been required to look into the bronze level plans in whatever exchange he has access to.

Since there are no actual before and after numbers on premiums, or how much his out-of-pocket or co-pays were before versus what was offered on an ACA plan, no one can really say if what was "substantial" to him really WAS in the larger picture. I would say that if he can't swing a couple of years of increased premiums in his retirement while this thing shakes out some, then he probably really isn't ready for a no-income life.

 

[MissGotRocks]

That would be my guess too KSinger. You have to compare apples to apples in terms of coverage and then be able to compare premiums. If the plan was cancelled, It was probably due to the poor coverage that it offered. Unfortunately, many people didn't know how bad their policies were until they either became ill or were cancelled when the ACA took effect.

Health insurance is and has been very expensive for quite some time. The premium increase have been scary high even before the ACA took effect. No one in my age range considered jobs, careers or anything of the like dependent upon health insurance. Many people, had they seen the boom coming, might have made different decisions on jobs had they known. I know several people now that don't retire because just their 20% supplemental policy to Medicare is too much for them on retirement wages. It is and continues to be a huge problem. I agree though that ACA is at least a step in making some things available/affordable to those that once found it out of reach. It's not perfect and surely will need tweaking as time goes by.

There are many variables to consider for retirement and most people can't retire at age 50. If you by chance lived to be 90, chances are you would not have saved enough to support yourself for the next 40 years. Being without health insurance puts you at tremendous risk for drowning in debt for the simplest surgery or hospitalization. It has caused many to rethink their plans for the future.

 

[amc80]

That would be my guess too KSinger. You have to compare apples to apples in terms of coverage and then be able to compare premiums. If the plan was cancelled, It was probably due to the poor coverage that it offered. Unfortunately, many people didn't know how bad their policies were until they either became ill or were cancelled when the ACA took effect.

Health insurance is and has been very expensive for quite some time. The premium increase have been scary high even before the ACA took effect. No one in my age range considered jobs, careers or anything of the like dependent upon health insurance. Many people, had they seen the boom coming, might have made different decisions on jobs had they known. I know several people now that don't retire because just their 20% supplemental policy to Medicare is too much for them on retirement wages. It is and continues to be a huge problem. I agree though that ACA is at least a step in making some things available/affordable to those that once found it out of reach. It's not perfect and surely will need tweaking as time goes by.

There are many variables to consider for retirement and most people can't retire at age 50. If you by chance lived to be 90, chances are you would not have saved enough to support yourself for the next 40 years. Being without health insurance puts you at tremendous risk for drowning in debt for the simplest surgery or hospitalization. It has caused many to rethink their plans for the future.

I might be weird, but I always consider the health plan when looking at a job. When I am offered a job, I ask for the plan details. I want to see the coverages and premiums. I probably didn't do this with my first job out of grad school because I really just needed a job, but definitely did with every position after. Even now, DH and I are looking to relocate to a different state, but have decided to stay here for a while due to my awesome health insurance (which isn't cheap, but covers just about everything at 100%).

 

[MissGotRocks]

Yes, today we would all consider health benefits and their costs when procuring a job. I'm speaking of people that have been working for 35-40 years. Health insurance was almost a given in those days at a very affordable price. Retirement plans were very secure then as well - not so today. The fabric of benefits packages has changed greatly in those years. Companies have gone under, union contracts don't provide as well as they once did, and we are all encouraged to fund our own retirements. Obviously, the packages that were almost a given back in the day have proved too costly to maintain for employers. The big automotive giants nearly went bankrupt trying to pay out retirements and benefits. You may elect to keep the job you have now for the benefits - because it makes sense - but years ago it would not have always been a huge consideration. I have peers today that marvel at the big impact health insurance now has on where you work. The world is an ever changing place though and we've got to roll with the changes. However, lots of folks came up short with benefits by changing jobs because they never realized the huge difference a health insurance plan would make in their lives.

My guess is that in the future your top negotiation will be with your salary as you'll be expected to fund your own healthcare and retirement benefits. It's sometimes difficult to do - particularly with retirement - as you need to be a smart, aggressive saver to have adequate monies. On top of buying a home and raising and educating children it's not easy to be able to save a lot of your take home pay. Working a job for 25 or 30 years and out for retirement will be a thing of the past.

 

[GliderPoss]

Wow so much passionate discussion

Getting back to the topic at hand - I'm not sure I really follow the US system so maybe someone could help explain it to me?

Why is health insurance linked to your work company? What has that got to do with it? Here is Australia - you purchase health insurance separately according to your needs. I've been paying for my own health insurance since I was 19 years old. Granted it's a lot cheaper here (think I paid about $10 a week?) but would of course have access to medical assistance through Medicare even if I didnt have it.

The system here encourages everyone to get private insurance (you will pay extra tax if you dont) but also provides for those too poor to afford it. That way the burden is shared. Seems to work just fine. I choose to pay extra for top hospital cover ($AU80 per month) so that I'm covered for any eventuality if I were taken to hospital (an extra scans, operations, private room etc) after I had a health scare a few years ago.

Are you saying that if you have no insurance & you get sick/have an accident then go to the hospital in the US you get turned away?