How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your home?

[Lula]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Outlawing guns won't eliminate violence; amending the way we treat each other (or, more aptly, mistreat each other) would probably go much longer toward resolving it.

This cannot be true. People are much the same, around the the world, as most travelers will attest. There's greed, corruption, deception, rage, hand in hand with tolerance, optimism, generosity, and kindness. If access to firearms is not the direct cause of higher death-by-firearm statistics, what is? People in Australia (Canada, England, Germany, Portugal, wherever) still get angry, get revenge, have psychotic breaks - the difference is that, thanks to decent gun regulations, the vast majority of victims recover in the hospital after being beaten by a cricket bat. They're not in the morgue with two slugs in their chest.

Totally agree, justginger. Clearly, strict gun control works, as the countries you've listed have miniscule amounts of gun crime. (As opposed to the US, where it's only a matter of time until the next disturbed individual kills a ton of people.)

Agreed.

And I would add that, as a nation, we need to spend a whole lot more money on the prevention and treatment of serious mental illness. Diseases like schizophrenia often show up during adolescence and young adulthood -- the high school and college years. I'm not qualified to diagnose James Holmes, but I have my suspicions that he may be one of the approximately 1 in 1000 young people who develop schizophrenia during their 20s.

ETA: Left off a zero.

 

[mrs jam]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Two - mine and my husband's.

 

[rubybeth]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

None. I think my husband owned a BB gun as a boy, but it was moved along with most of his childhood items. I learned recently that he's an excellent shot, as he demonstrated at his Boy Scout camping excursion (he's an assistant scoutmaster) by bringing home his targets.

 

[davi_el_mejor]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

We don't have any. Unfortunately.

I grew up shooting. I'm a damn good shot too. With a rifle and a handgun.

My dad probably has 20+ in his gun room. My favorite was his contender. It gave you lots of options for ammo.

You wouldn't guess it but I can reload all sorts of ammo too. Another thing you wouldn't guess about me... I was 4 points off from being an "expert" with the 9mm for work. But "sharp-shooter" sounds a lot more B-A so I'll take it

The better half is freaked out by the idea of having a gun or even shooting one. I'll probably never own one again.

 

[yssie]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

None.

I think DH would seriously consider it if I wasn't so completely against it. The idea of civilians carrying concealed weapons completely freaks me out - all it takes is one misguidedly empowered idiot who misjudges a situation, and I don't think it's cynical to suggest that there are probably quite a few misguidedly empowered idiots wandering around...

 

[AGBF]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

None.

The idea of civilians carrying concealed weapons completely freaks me out - all it takes is one misguidedly empowered idiot who misjudges a situation, and I don't think it's cynical to suggest that there are probably quite a few misguidedly empowered idiots wandering around...

Yup. I am back home in Connecticut now, but I lived in Virginia (albeit only the DC suburbs) for about 8 years. There was a small movement among some Virginians to assert their right to bear arms by packing everywhere. People packing in all the local Starbuckses got the most press. It was absurb. When someone mentioned that if there had been an armed civilian in the movie theatre during the screening of the batman movie that perhaps the gunman might have been stopped, I thought about all the people in Virginia with their handguns. (Someone here on Pricescope said that all we needed was someone else shooting in a dark movie theatre.)

Can you imagine crazed Starbucks sippers from the wealthy DC suburbs shooting wildly at who knows what because they are out to prove that this is America and they have the right to bear arms?

Deb/AGBF

 

[aljdewey]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Outlawing guns won't eliminate violence; amending the way we treat each other (or, more aptly, mistreat each other) would probably go much longer toward resolving it.

This cannot be true. People are much the same, around the the world, as most travelers will attest. There's greed, corruption, deception, rage, hand in hand with tolerance, optimism, generosity, and kindness. If access to firearms is not the direct cause of higher death-by-firearm statistics, what is? People in Australia (Canada, England, Germany, Portugal, wherever) still get angry, get revenge, have psychotic breaks - the difference is that, thanks to decent gun regulations, the vast majority of victims recover in the hospital after being beaten by a cricket bat. They're not in the morgue with two slugs in their chest.

Totally agree, justginger. Clearly, strict gun control works, as the countries you've listed have miniscule amounts of gun crime. (As opposed to the US, where it's only a matter of time until the next disturbed individual kills a ton of people.)

I will respectfully leave it as agreeing to disagree with both you and Ginger. As I mentioned, the state I live in is one of the two strictest in gun control laws.........and I write this exactly 24 hours after 2 people in my city were killed by guns. Strict gun control didn't prevent it. (Then again, these kids weren't getting their guns through legal means OR terribly concerned with the law.)

People are the same around the world. People bully, people exclude, people treat others dismissively, people taunt others who aren't like them......and that is what plants the seeds for revenge and violence.

With respect to the argument re: survivability of cricket bats and other forms of violence........the vast majority of the shooting victims in the most recent event didn't die either. Of the 70ish people shot, more than 50 were wounded and are recovering in hospital (or have been released already). Guns are not automatically lethal either, as I'm sure legions of ER staff personnel can attest to.

Someone with an intent to murder is going to find a way to do it, regardless of the instrument. The Colorado suspect had enough explosive material in his dwelling to blow up the entire building and everyone in it. Tim McVeigh managed to kill 168 people in the Oklahoma City bombing of the Murrah building with a bomb with completely legal chemicals/materials; none of them was shot. (Interestingly enough, I can't recall a public furor over outlawing/banning fertilizer or the legality of blasting caps.) Over 3000 U.S. citizens were killed by hijacked planes, not by guns.

People kill because they hate, and I have to think the seeds of that hate are planted when they are mistreated or scorned by others. To me, it seems more logical to fix the root of that problem.

 

[DiamondBrokersofFlorida]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

You probably should not have a gun unless you are definitely willing to use it, practice, get a license.
We had one in several bad instances and it never came in handy. For one the bad guys always have the element of surprise. By that time it is likely too late. In the instance of a robbery, they got the jump and took our gun.
In the instance of the mass shooting we were in, we were not near our gun. Many of the people on the scene had guns which led to more mass confusion with police arresting the wrong guy and conspiracy theories that there were 3-4 alledged suspects versus one.

 

[TooPatient]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

None.

The idea of civilians carrying concealed weapons completely freaks me out - all it takes is one misguidedly empowered idiot who misjudges a situation, and I don't think it's cynical to suggest that there are probably quite a few misguidedly empowered idiots wandering around...

Yup. I am back home in Connecticut now, but I lived in Virginia (albeit only the DC suburbs) for about 8 years. There was a small movement among some Virginians to assert their right to bear arms by packing everywhere. People packing in all the local Starbuckses got the most press. It was absurb. When someone mentioned that if there had been an armed civilian in the movie theatre during the screening of the batman movie that perhaps the gunman might have been stopped, I thought about all the people in Virginia with their handguns. (Someone here on Pricescope said that all we needed was someone else shooting in a dark movie theatre.)

Can you imagine crazed Starbucks sippers from the wealthy DC suburbs shooting wildly at who knows what because they are out to prove that this is America and they have the right to bear arms?

Deb/AGBF

Alternatively, can you imagine those people who are asserting their rights -- who, I should mention, are also generally the ones who spend lots of time and money practicing and getting trained to respond in situations -- reacting calmly and falling back on the training classes they've taken?

Not all of us are psychos out to prove that we have rights. You may be shocked if you looked into the level of training that people invest in. Those classes train people to evaluate situations and respond appropriately....


I doubt many people heard about the 71 year old man (exercising his right to carry!) who reacted when two armed men tried to rob (at gun point) a bunch of people in a cafe in Florida. No one (except the two criminals) were injured.

 

[amc80]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

You probably should not have a gun unless you are definitely willing to use it, practice, get a license.

Here in Nevada, a license isn't necessary unless you want to carry concealed (CCW). We are an open carry state, which means you are free to walk around with a gun in plain sight. Occasionally I will see someone doing this and it always catches me off guard. I have a hand gun and my CCW, but the gun is a bit too big to carry around (it's a Ruger SR9c, in case anybody cares). I'm looking to buy a smaller one that I can easily have in the jogging stroller for when I go on runs by myself.

Have you all seen this video? http://www.reuters.com/video/2012/07/20/elderly-man-chases-shoot-robbers?videoId=236594012
Two guys went into an internet cafe and attempted to rob it. There was an old man there who had a concealed handgun. He pulled it out and started firing at the two men. I don't think I've ever seen two grown men scramble and flee so fast.

 

[ericad]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

We have one. DH needs it for his job. Otherwise we'd own zero.

 

[ericad]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

~ Eddie Izzard

 

[yssie]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

None.

The idea of civilians carrying concealed weapons completely freaks me out - all it takes is one misguidedly empowered idiot who misjudges a situation, and I don't think it's cynical to suggest that there are probably quite a few misguidedly empowered idiots wandering around...

Yup. I am back home in Connecticut now, but I lived in Virginia (albeit only the DC suburbs) for about 8 years. There was a small movement among some Virginians to assert their right to bear arms by packing everywhere. People packing in all the local Starbuckses got the most press. It was absurb. When someone mentioned that if there had been an armed civilian in the movie theatre during the screening of the batman movie that perhaps the gunman might have been stopped, I thought about all the people in Virginia with their handguns. (Someone here on Pricescope said that all we needed was someone else shooting in a dark movie theatre.)

Can you imagine crazed Starbucks sippers from the wealthy DC suburbs shooting wildly at who knows what because they are out to prove that this is America and they have the right to bear arms?

Deb/AGBF

Alternatively, can you imagine those people who are asserting their rights -- who, I should mention, are also generally the ones who spend lots of time and money practicing and getting trained to respond in situations -- reacting calmly and falling back on the training classes they've taken?

Not all of us are psychos out to prove that we have rights. You may be shocked if you looked into the level of training that people invest in. Those classes train people to evaluate situations and respond appropriately....


I doubt many people heard about the 71 year old man (exercising his right to carry!) who reacted when two armed men tried to rob (at gun point) a bunch of people in a cafe in Florida. No one (except the two criminals) were injured.

ETA: Like Deb said, figured it's easier to edit here than quote again, I respect the training some (hopefully most, ideally all) invest in, and I'm grateful they choose to do so in the name of responsible ownership.

I genuinely believe that there is a certain type of person, like this 71yo man in Florida, who is able to stay calm under pressure, and who is able to fall back on training and keep a clear head to use his/her weapon to better the situation.

I also genuinely believe that most people who think they're that sort of person aren't, actually. When I learnt to ride one of the first things they taught us was how to fall. Guess how many people still locked their elbows and injured themselves? Or wouldn't get anywhere near the animal afterward? Or worse, didn't bother to even check their tack beforehand? Most people aren't calm and rational under pressure - they panic.

I would much rather not be anywhere near a fray wherein someone with a gun panics.

 

[AGBF]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Not all of us are psychos out to prove that we have rights. You may be shocked if you looked into the level of training that people invest in. Those classes train people to evaluate situations and respond appropriately....

I should not not have just posted with one sweeping generalization about that period in Virginia. I actually would not be shocked at the level of training that some gun enthusiasts have, or the level of practice which they keep up. I have a friend who lives in the Charlottesville, Virginia area who, along with her husband, belongs to a gun club. She is an animal lover, not a hunter, but she uses the name, "Annie Oakley" on her e-mail addresses. She and her husband have several acres of land in the country and keep cats and dogs as pets. They used to keep bantam chickens as well, but a fox killed them. I know that she took out a rifle (or shot gun) when a bear came on her property and she feared for her dogs. I also know that she shoots regularly (at a range). I didn't mean to tar everyone with the same brush.

Deb/AGBF

 

[TooPatient]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

You probably should not have a gun unless you are definitely willing to use it, practice, get a license.

Here in Nevada, a license isn't necessary unless you want to carry concealed (CCW). We are an open carry state, which means you are free to walk around with a gun in plain sight. Occasionally I will see someone doing this and it always catches me off guard. I have a hand gun and my CCW, but the gun is a bit too big to carry around (it's a Ruger SR9c, in case anybody cares). I'm looking to buy a smaller one that I can easily have in the jogging stroller for when I go on runs by myself.

Have you all seen this video? http://www.reuters.com/video/2012/07/20/elderly-man-chases-shoot-robbers?videoId=236594012
Two guys went into an internet cafe and attempted to rob it. There was an old man there who had a concealed handgun. He pulled it out and started firing at the two men. I don't think I've ever seen two grown men scramble and flee so fast.

I really like my CZ P01. It is heavy enough to be comfortable shooting but light enough and small enough to carry concealed. I got this after having lots of problems with my CZ RAMI (which was a great size but never did work right )

Have you tried out the Springfield XD9? It feels similar to the GLOCK, but has added safeties. (they've got one that would be a perfect carry size too)

 

[DiamondBrokersofFlorida]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

You probably should not have a gun unless you are definitely willing to use it, practice, get a license.

Here in Nevada, a license isn't necessary unless you want to carry concealed (CCW). We are an open carry state, which means you are free to walk around with a gun in plain sight. Occasionally I will see someone doing this and it always catches me off guard. I have a hand gun and my CCW, but the gun is a bit too big to carry around (it's a Ruger SR9c, in case anybody cares). I'm looking to buy a smaller one that I can easily have in the jogging stroller for when I go on runs by myself.

Have you all seen this video? http://www.reuters.com/video/2012/07/20/elderly-man-chases-shoot-robbers?videoId=236594012
Two guys went into an internet cafe and attempted to rob it. There was an old man there who had a concealed handgun. He pulled it out and started firing at the two men. I don't think I've ever seen two grown men scramble and flee so fast.

I think it Florida you also don't have to have a licence unless it is concealed. Lots of criminals in Florida. They all come here to get away from where ever they are wanted. I noticed in Las Vegas, they have a new thing there they advertise to shoot a gun for $5.00

 

[TooPatient]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Not all of us are psychos out to prove that we have rights. You may be shocked if you looked into the level of training that people invest in. Those classes train people to evaluate situations and respond appropriately....

I should not not have just posted with one sweeping generalization about that period in Virginia. I actually would not be shocked at the level of training that some gun enthusiasts have, or the level of practice which they keep up. I have a friend who lives in the Charlottesville, Virginia area who, along with her husband, belongs to a gun club. She is an animal lover, not a hunter, but she uses the name, "Annie Oakley" on her e-mail addresses. She and her husband have several acres of land in the country and keep cats and dogs as pets. They used to keep bantam chickens as well, but a fox killed them. I know that she took out a rifle (or shot gun) when a bear came on her property and she feared for her dogs. I also know that she shoots regularly (at a range). I didn't mean to tar everyone with the same brush.

Deb/AGBF

Deb -- no problem. I didn't think you meant it that way, I just wanted to let other people who aren't familiar know that it isn't just strange people who don't know what they're doing. I'm always happy to be browsing in the gun shop and hear the sales people actually deter people from buying. (like the woman who didn't care about how comfortable it was to shoot because she wasn't going to ever practice... she just wanted something to drop in her purse )


Yssie -- I've met my share of gun owners (and carriers) who leave me very uncomfortable with the thought that they are armed! They are the minority though. In all of the classes I've done, I don't think anyone (with the possible exception of active/retired police/military) in the classes thinks that they are "that type of person" who can stay calm when faced with some horrible situation. Much of what I've done in the classes is to go over and over and over and over stuff so that if a situation comes up, the training kicks in and you run through the list of evaluating and responding. The training also emphasizes that you NEVER react unless you know you can handle it (which includes knowing what your limitations are and when you should just keep your head down and wait for the police). I've always got mixed feelings about the classes. Defending yourself and others is NOT a pleasant topic.

 

[amc80]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

You probably should not have a gun unless you are definitely willing to use it, practice, get a license.

Here in Nevada, a license isn't necessary unless you want to carry concealed (CCW). We are an open carry state, which means you are free to walk around with a gun in plain sight. Occasionally I will see someone doing this and it always catches me off guard. I have a hand gun and my CCW, but the gun is a bit too big to carry around (it's a Ruger SR9c, in case anybody cares). I'm looking to buy a smaller one that I can easily have in the jogging stroller for when I go on runs by myself.

Have you all seen this video? http://www.reuters.com/video/2012/07/20/elderly-man-chases-shoot-robbers?videoId=236594012
Two guys went into an internet cafe and attempted to rob it. There was an old man there who had a concealed handgun. He pulled it out and started firing at the two men. I don't think I've ever seen two grown men scramble and flee so fast.

I really like my CZ P01. It is heavy enough to be comfortable shooting but light enough and small enough to carry concealed. I got this after having lots of problems with my CZ RAMI (which was a great size but never did work right )

Have you tried out the Springfield XD9? It feels similar to the GLOCK, but has added safeties. (they've got one that would be a perfect carry size too)

I'll look into it! I'm leaning towards a Ruger LCP. There's a special model where the barrel is engraved...it's so pretty! DH gets super embarrassed when I say that sort of stuff at gun shows.

 

[yssie]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Yssie -- I've met my share of gun owners (and carriers) who leave me very uncomfortable with the thought that they are armed! They are the minority though. In all of the classes I've done, I don't think anyone (with the possible exception of active/retired police/military) in the classes thinks that they are "that type of person" who can stay calm when faced with some horrible situation. Much of what I've done in the classes is to go over and over and over and over stuff so that if a situation comes up, the training kicks in and you run through the list of evaluating and responding. The training also emphasizes that you NEVER react unless you know you can handle it (which includes knowing what your limitations are and when you should just keep your head down and wait for the police). I've always got mixed feelings about the classes. Defending yourself and others is NOT a pleasant topic.

That's really good to hear TooPatient. Obviously I've never been to one of these classes - guns in general just make me very uncomfortable (I would be a terrible owner!). I suppose it's partly a product of where I grew up.

I didn't mean to imply that all gun owners were mindless aggressors - I guess it did rather come off that way. To me there is a world of difference between a hunting rifle and the guy walking down the sidewalk w/ a gun in his pocket, or between an enthusiast who collects or trains for enjoyment and someone who has a gun stashed in the closet solely for "just in case". In theory I have no problem (I truly have no problem) with hunting or with enthusiasts who are every bit as knowledgeable and responsible as one could ask for, but since in practice regulation such that only those sorts of enthusiasts ever actually get hold of them isn't possible I much prefer to swing the other way and avoid them altogether. Clearly many feel differently!

 

[aljdewey]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

~ Eddie Izzard

Sure, the gun helps.............but there are several people who use and hold guns who never kill a thing.

Blasting caps and fertilizer helped killed a boatload of people in Oklahoma years ago...........should we outlaw them? Should we outlaw kitchen knives because people kill with them? People are strangled at the hands of others.......should we outlaw hands too? People kill with cars when they drive impaired.....should we outlaw cars too?

Inanimate objects do not kill people by themselves. The instruments are not the problem; it's the angry people behind them, and unless you can remove ALL the things angry people could use as weapons, violence will continue to happen. Singling out guns isn't logical.

 

[TooPatient]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Yssie -- I've met my share of gun owners (and carriers) who leave me very uncomfortable with the thought that they are armed! They are the minority though. In all of the classes I've done, I don't think anyone (with the possible exception of active/retired police/military) in the classes thinks that they are "that type of person" who can stay calm when faced with some horrible situation. Much of what I've done in the classes is to go over and over and over and over stuff so that if a situation comes up, the training kicks in and you run through the list of evaluating and responding. The training also emphasizes that you NEVER react unless you know you can handle it (which includes knowing what your limitations are and when you should just keep your head down and wait for the police). I've always got mixed feelings about the classes. Defending yourself and others is NOT a pleasant topic.

That's really good to hear TooPatient. Obviously I've never been to one of these classes - guns in general just make me very uncomfortable (I would be a terrible owner!). I suppose it's partly a product of where I grew up.

I didn't mean to imply that all gun owners were mindless aggressors - I guess it did rather come off that way. To me there is a world of difference between a hunting rifle and the guy walking down the sidewalk w/ a gun in his pocket, or between an enthusiast who collects or trains for enjoyment and someone who has a gun stashed in the closet solely for "just in case". In theory I have no problem (I truly have no problem) with hunting or with enthusiasts who are every bit as knowledgeable and responsible as one could ask for, but since in practice regulation such that only those sorts of enthusiasts ever actually get hold of them isn't possible I much prefer to swing the other way and avoid them altogether. Clearly many feel differently!

I understand that there are people who are uncomfortable. My mother was surprised when she found out that I was interested and had actually gone to a class and bought one. I was raised with mixed experiences. My grandfather is a collector and a hunter who has always taught us that they are safe as long as you are responsible and treat them with the respect and caution they need. My father was the sort to keep one under a couch cushion and leaned up in the closet. I've seen guns handled in dangerous ways (including threatening lives).

For that reason, I choose to not open carry. It may be my right to do so BUT there are other people who are not comfortable and I don't want to make them uncomfortable. I do have my license for concealed carry but the point of concealed is that you keep it concealed (done right, no one ever knows). The exception I make for open carry is when we are out camping. (we stay out of established campgrounds so animals are a concern)

Those "just in case" people really bug me too. I hate to see people buy a gun and then not bother to learn how to handle it safely. Those are the people who if "just in case" ever comes will only escalate the situation because they don't know what they are doing.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Outlawing guns won't eliminate violence; amending the way we treat each other (or, more aptly, mistreat each other) would probably go much longer toward resolving it.

This cannot be true. People are much the same, around the the world, as most travelers will attest. There's greed, corruption, deception, rage, hand in hand with tolerance, optimism, generosity, and kindness. If access to firearms is not the direct cause of higher death-by-firearm statistics, what is? People in Australia (Canada, England, Germany, Portugal, wherever) still get angry, get revenge, have psychotic breaks - the difference is that, thanks to decent gun regulations, the vast majority of victims recover in the hospital after being beaten by a cricket bat. They're not in the morgue with two slugs in their chest.

Totally agree, justginger. Clearly, strict gun control works, as the countries you've listed have miniscule amounts of gun crime. (As opposed to the US, where it's only a matter of time until the next disturbed individual kills a ton of people.)

I will respectfully leave it as agreeing to disagree with both you and Ginger. As I mentioned, the state I live in is one of the two strictest in gun control laws.........and I write this exactly 24 hours after 2 people in my city were killed by guns. Strict gun control didn't prevent it. (Then again, these kids weren't getting their guns through legal means OR terribly concerned with the law.)

People are the same around the world. People bully, people exclude, people treat others dismissively, people taunt others who aren't like them......and that is what plants the seeds for revenge and violence.

With respect to the argument re: survivability of cricket bats and other forms of violence........the vast majority of the shooting victims in the most recent event didn't die either. Of the 70ish people shot, more than 50 were wounded and are recovering in hospital (or have been released already). Guns are not automatically lethal either, as I'm sure legions of ER staff personnel can attest to.

Someone with an intent to murder is going to find a way to do it, regardless of the instrument. The Colorado suspect had enough explosive material in his dwelling to blow up the entire building and everyone in it. Tim McVeigh managed to kill 168 people in the Oklahoma City bombing of the Murrah building with a bomb with completely legal chemicals/materials; none of them was shot. (Interestingly enough, I can't recall a public furor over outlawing/banning fertilizer or the legality of blasting caps.) Over 3000 U.S. citizens were killed by hijacked planes, not by guns.

People kill because they hate, and I have to think the seeds of that hate are planted when they are mistreated or scorned by others. To me, it seems more logical to fix the root of that problem.

So if people kill in mass shootings only because they hate, and not because they have easy access to guns, does that mean that Americans are more hateful as a people?

As I posted in the thread about the Colorado shooting, I'm not an anti-gun bleeding heart liberal. My dad is a hunter, my grandfather and great grandfather were gunsmiths, and I own some guns myself that were given to me as gifts. But it's absurd to think that easy access to guns don't contribute to the MULTIPLE mass murders that occur in the U.S. It's only a matter of time until the next one.

 

[TooPatient]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

~ Eddie Izzard

Sure, the gun helps.............but there are several people who use and hold guns who never kill a thing.

Blasting caps and fertilizer helped killed a boatload of people in Oklahoma years ago...........should we outlaw them? Should we outlaw kitchen knives because people kill with them? People are strangled at the hands of others.......should we outlaw hands too? People kill with cars when they drive impaired.....should we outlaw cars too?

Inanimate objects do not kill people by themselves. The instruments are not the problem; it's the angry people behind them, and unless you can remove ALL the things angry people could use as weapons, violence will continue to happen. Singling out guns isn't logical.

We had an incedent in the last year where some man felt that someone had gotten in his way while driving. He admitted that he followed the person and intended to kill them. He succeeded. The other man died in the accident. This "man" got out of his car when police and paramedics responded smiling and saying how pleased he was that he had killed the guy.

ETA: This was not done with a gun. This was done by ramming the car into a cement barrier.

 

[coati]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Here's an interesting Harper's article on concealed weapons. Was not what I expected and really opened my eyes to the responsibility (and self-consciousness) of carrying a gun. Great read and a really balanced/nuanced illustration of what it feels like to pack heat and walk out the door.

Happiness is a worn gun: My concealed weapon and me by Dan Baum

0 guns in my house.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

We had an incedent in the last year where some man felt that someone had gotten in his way while driving. He admitted that he followed the person and intended to kill them. He succeeded. The other man died in the accident. This "man" got out of his car when police and paramedics responded smiling and saying how pleased he was that he had killed the guy.

ETA: This was not done with a gun. This was done by ramming the car into a cement barrier.

I hope they fry the bastard.

 

[AGBF]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Inanimate objects do not kill people by themselves. The instruments are not the problem; it's the angry people behind them, and unless you can remove ALL the things angry people could use as weapons, violence will continue to happen. Singling out guns isn't logical.

I think it is, al. Of course inanimate objects do not kill people by themselves, but guns grease the wheels of killing. They make it far easier for angry Americans to act on impulse (and also by accident) and to kill their fellows when having to find other weapons might mean sparing many lives. Some people who might pull out a gun and fire would hesitate to approach a larger person with a knife or cudgel. Someone full of road rage might calm down before deciding to run down his victim as did the man in the story posted. (Also: not everyone has the driving skill to hunt down another driver and kill him with a car!) Guns just make killing easy. Especially semi-automatic weapons. Saying that guns don't kill people is a cop out.

Deb

 

[Sha]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

~ Eddie Izzard

Sure, the gun helps.............but there are several people who use and hold guns who never kill a thing.

Blasting caps and fertilizer helped killed a boatload of people in Oklahoma years ago...........should we outlaw them? Should we outlaw kitchen knives because people kill with them? People are strangled at the hands of others.......should we outlaw hands too? People kill with cars when they drive impaired.....should we outlaw cars too?

Inanimate objects do not kill people by themselves. The instruments are not the problem; it's the angry people behind them, and unless you can remove ALL the things angry people could use as weapons, violence will continue to happen. Singling out guns isn't logical.

I hear this argument all the time, but I don't think you can equate guns with 'other' things used to kill people at all. Knives, cars, fertilizers were created for particular important functions and are most times used for the purposes for which they were created. It would be senseless to outlaw them for this reason -even though people happen to use them to kill as well. Guns were designed to be killing machines, and although they can be used for protection, self-defense, and intimidation as well- I would venture to say in a lot cases they do exactly what they're designed to do - kill.

It's true that someone who really wants to kill someone can find other ways to do it, but I don't think you can deny that guns make killing very easy. With a gun, you can inflict lethal damage from quite a distance away - no need to be close to your attacker and risk being fended off, and you can kill multiple people in several minutes. Not so with a knife, hands or other tools. Sure, there are other very lethal ways of killing - like explosives, and people who really intend to do evil can use those, but I suspect that their use might require a bit more skill - which might make the average person hesitate. Guns, on the other hand, can easily be used in the 'heat of the moment'.

We're never going to be able to outlaw all the angry, insane, or evil people - (in a lot of cases we don't even see the signs of their anger, insanity, evil etc ), but I do think we should make it less easy for them to commit the type of carnage that occurred in Colorado and other places.

 

[aljdewey]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

In 2007, there were 41,059 automobile fatalities in the U.S.

In that same year, there were 31,224 gun fatalities. Of those 31,224, more than half (56%) were suicide at 17,352. Gun deaths attributed to homicide (violence upon others) totaled 12,632.

More lives are lost to auto accidents than to guns. I wonder if we should ban car ownership too?

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

The picture of an untrained, untried person with a gun in his or her pocket is unsettling, if you expect they are just waiting for a reason to pull it out & use it. But think about this: of all the articles you've read or heard about shootings, how many were committed by the guns of the thousands of average guys on the street? Close to none. Isn't that why Travon Martin is a big story?

Violence & rage are endemic to all societies & strict gun laws do not prevent shootings. They happen where laws are lenient and where laws are tight. And not only in the U.S.

Recent mass killings by one shooter outside U.S. (does not include injured who survived):

Norway (Anders Breivik) 2011: Killed 77
Belgium (Nordine Amrani) 2011: 7
Germany (Tim Kretschmer) 2009: 15
UK (Derek Bird) 2010: 12
Finland (Ibraham Schkupolli) 2009: 5
Finland (Matti Juhani Saari) 2008 10
Switzerland (F. Leibacher) 2001 14
South Africa (Bulelani Vukwana) 2001 11
Australia (Martin Bryant) 1996 35

Not confined to recent times, either. A sampling of earlier mass shootings:

Japan (Toi Matsui) 1938 30
Germany (Ernst Wagner) 1913 14

This is only a sampling. There are many more, in "peaceful" countries in "peaceful" times. Someone determined to find a way will find a way. That's the sad truth. Fortunately these eruptions are rare. Nobody has managed yet to predict who and when. As Aljdewey said, we can't outlaw fertilizer because someone makes a bomb with it. We can't outlaw knives when people are stabbed. I'm no wiser about this than anyone else & it's tragic.

More basic for the future of humanity is the urge to restrict everyone when one individual goes haywire. Benjamin Franklin knew that: "If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose both.”

--- Laurie

 

[aljdewey]

Re: How many guns, in total, are owned by people in your hom

Inanimate objects do not kill people by themselves. The instruments are not the problem; it's the angry people behind them, and unless you can remove ALL the things angry people could use as weapons, violence will continue to happen. Singling out guns isn't logical.

I think it is, al. Of course inanimate objects do not kill people by themselves, but guns grease the wheels of killing. They make it far easier for angry Americans to act on impulse (and also by accident) and to kill their fellows when having to find other weapons might mean sparing many lives. Some people who might pull out a gun and fire would hesitate to approach a larger person with a knife or cudgel. Someone full of road rage might calm down before deciding to run down his victim as did the man in the story posted. (Also: not everyone has the driving skill to hunt down another driver and kill him with a car!) Guns just make killing easy. Especially semi-automatic weapons. Saying that guns don't kill people is a cop out.

Deb

Sorry Deb, heartily disagree. ANY weapon greases the wheel of killing, and far more weapons are more *readily* accessible than guns. Guns are the LAST weapon to be legally readily accessible on impulse.

Speaking for my state, you cannot purchase a gun without a gun license. To get that, have to complete gun safety training at a state-approved facility. Upon completion, you have to file a license application, and approval of that application requires submitting to an extensive interview with a local detective in your town. When you finally get the license, you have to go to one of the legally authorized dealers to obtain the firearm, and then you have to fill out paperwork and submit it to your local municipality. That takes about 4-8 weeks in my state. [/b]This hardly lends itself to impulse.. The only way to hasten that process is to obtain a gun illegally........and in that case, gun laws don't help because you're already operating outside the law.

By comparison, I can get a 10" Kitchen-Aid butcher knife in under 10 minutes at my local Kohl's, and I don't need to worry about the larger guy fending me off with it if I'm able to attack from behind. With slightly more time (30 minutes), I can across the state border to obtain enough explosives at the fireworks retailer to blow up half my city block without so much as a backward glance. With only slightly more effort and a little time spent with Professor Internet, I could go to Agway to purchase enough fertilizer to torch an entire building.

With respect to your skill argument, I can assure you that not everyone could even strike a person by firing a gun, especially mortally. There is skill required there too.

I cannot think of ONE mass shooting incident that wasn't heavily planned and premeditated.....nothing impulse about it. There's a lot less impulse involved in that than there is in running someone off the road or grabbing a nearby kitchen knife in the heat of an argument.

ANYTHING can kill people if the people trying to kill want to kill. That's not exclusive to guns.