Horse people come hither

[dragonfly411]

I need advice. I''ve been doing more riding lately and am getting into barrel racing and barrel horses. My sister used to be very involved but no longer rides. I have an older arab gelding who has no chance of competing, and is really too old. I have a 5 year old arab I''m training, but I''m sure he won''t be competitive beyond 3D. My sister has an older retired horse who I now occasionally walk and jog in our field. He has arthritis, but likes a little get up and go now and then. She also has a 17 year old barrel horse who she is not riding. I had asked her to let me ride him and she said no, she would be jealous and hate me for it

, but my thing is, I feel like he will go to waste. We''ve had him up for sale for over a year, but the fact is he''s getting older in years and not many want to buy an older gelding, when they can get a young one just starting for the same price. I hate to see him waste away and would like to keep him in athletic form as long as possible. My family and I have considered me just riding him when my sister isn''t around, and not telling her, so he can stay in shape, and stay his limber 10 year old bodied self. Do you think this is a bad choice on my end? I understand he''s her horse.... but it''s not like she pays for him. My family does.... they pay for all of our horses. I at least pay vet bills and half the farrier and feed on mine... sister pays nothing. Thoughts?

 

[somethingshiny]

Wow. I gotta say I''m shocked that your sis isn''t all for someone riding him! He''s going to be so unhappy just lolligagging around! I don''t know if you should go behind her back whether she pays for him or not, he''s her horse. You can''t go into someone''s house and take their dog for a walk if they don''t want you to. You should show the same respect even if the animal is outside, IMO.

He is getting fairly old, have you thought about advertising him as a 4H horse or something? It sounds like he''d be a great starter horse for kids.

Also, in trying to get around your sis, maybe you could just take him out and lunge him. He''d still get a workout without you technically riding him.

Are you sure that sis doesn''t think something is physically wrong with him? Perhaps she has noticed a problem and doesn''t want him to get hurt.

 

[Lorelei]

Your sister needs to do what is best for the horse so if she could be convinced to let you ride him then that would be the best thing. Her being jealous is NOT a valid reason to let a good horse go to waste, do you think she might have another reason for it, maybe she doesn't want him sold and is not letting him be ridden to put off potential buyers?

 

[Irishgrrrl]

IMO, your sister is being very selfish. She''s putting her ego ahead of what''s best for the horse, and that''s inexcusable to me.

If she''s not riding him and has no plans to ride him, and if he''s truly fit for riding and there aren''t any medical issues, then what''s the harm in letting you ride him? I agree that it would probably be very good for him! Also, I have to ask: If your family pays for all of this horse''s needs and your sister pays nothing at all toward his care, and your sister doesn''t ride him/work with him/care for him, how exactly is he "her" horse? Is he registered in her name? If so, then I guess he''s technically "her" horse, but in name only. I guess I just don''t get how your sister thinks she should have a say in whether or not you ride him, when she can''t be bothered to pay for any of his needs or otherwise care for him, and expects your family to take care of him on her behalf. If he''s your family''s responsibility, then part of that responsibility is to make sure he''s ridden if that''s what''s best for him. It''s really cute how she thinks she can dictate whether or not he gets ridden, but has none of the responsibility of actually OWNING him.

If she absolutely refuses to let you ride him, and if you don''t feel right doing it behind her back (even with your family''s approval), then I like Shiny''s idea of at least lunging him when your sister isn''t around. That way, you''re not riding him against her wishes, but he is at least getting a workout instead of just being a pasture potato. After all, you only asked her if you could ride him, right? So lunging was never discussed . . .

BTW, you said he''s for sale . . . does it occur to your sister that he probably will sell a lot more quickly and for a lot higher price if he''s being ridden on a regular basis? Does she secretly not want to sell him? And not that it''s really my business, but who gets the proceeds of this sale . . . your sister (who evidently doesn''t pay for anything for the horse) or your family (who has been paying for all of his needs)? Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh toward your sister, DF. It''s just that I see horse ownership (along with all of the benefits and responsibilities that entails) in a very different light than your sister does, I guess.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/9/2010 11:57:33 AM
Author: Irishgrrrl
IMO, your sister is being very selfish. She''s putting her ego ahead of what''s best for the horse, and that''s inexcusable to me.

If she''s not riding him and has no plans to ride him, and if he''s truly fit for riding and there aren''t any medical issues, then what''s the harm in letting you ride him? I agree that it would probably be very good for him! Also, I have to ask: If your family pays for all of this horse''s needs and your sister pays nothing at all toward his care, and your sister doesn''t ride him/work with him/care for him, how exactly is he ''her'' horse? Is he registered in her name? If so, then I guess he''s technically ''her'' horse, but in name only. I guess I just don''t get how your sister thinks she should have a say in whether or not you ride him, when she can''t be bothered to pay for any of his needs or otherwise care for him, and expects your family to take care of him on her behalf. If he''s your family''s responsibility, then part of that responsibility is to make sure he''s ridden if that''s what''s best for him. It''s really cute how she thinks she can dictate whether or not he gets ridden, but has none of the responsibility of actually OWNING him.

If she absolutely refuses to let you ride him, and if you don''t feel right doing it behind her back (even with your family''s approval), then I like Shiny''s idea of at least lunging him when your sister isn''t around. That way, you''re not riding him against her wishes, but he is at least getting a workout instead of just being a pasture potato. After all, you only asked her if you could ride him, right? So lunging was never discussed . . .

BTW, you said he''s for sale . . . does it occur to your sister that he probably will sell a lot more quickly and for a lot higher price if he''s being ridden on a regular basis? Does she secretly not want to sell him? And not that it''s really my business, but who gets the proceeds of this sale . . . your sister (who evidently doesn''t pay for anything for the horse) or your family (who has been paying for all of his needs)? Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh toward your sister, DF. It''s just that I see horse ownership (along with all of the benefits and responsibilities that entails) in a very different light than your sister does, I guess.

Thats the only reason I can think of too Emm that she doesn''t want to sell him, this is only speculation of course but maybe she is thinking if he is unfit and fresh because he hasn''t been ridden that it might put people off.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 3/9/2010 12:00:34 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/9/2010 11:57:33 AM
Author: Irishgrrrl
IMO, your sister is being very selfish. She''s putting her ego ahead of what''s best for the horse, and that''s inexcusable to me.

If she''s not riding him and has no plans to ride him, and if he''s truly fit for riding and there aren''t any medical issues, then what''s the harm in letting you ride him? I agree that it would probably be very good for him! Also, I have to ask: If your family pays for all of this horse''s needs and your sister pays nothing at all toward his care, and your sister doesn''t ride him/work with him/care for him, how exactly is he ''her'' horse? Is he registered in her name? If so, then I guess he''s technically ''her'' horse, but in name only. I guess I just don''t get how your sister thinks she should have a say in whether or not you ride him, when she can''t be bothered to pay for any of his needs or otherwise care for him, and expects your family to take care of him on her behalf. If he''s your family''s responsibility, then part of that responsibility is to make sure he''s ridden if that''s what''s best for him. It''s really cute how she thinks she can dictate whether or not he gets ridden, but has none of the responsibility of actually OWNING him.

If she absolutely refuses to let you ride him, and if you don''t feel right doing it behind her back (even with your family''s approval), then I like Shiny''s idea of at least lunging him when your sister isn''t around. That way, you''re not riding him against her wishes, but he is at least getting a workout instead of just being a pasture potato. After all, you only asked her if you could ride him, right? So lunging was never discussed . . .

BTW, you said he''s for sale . . . does it occur to your sister that he probably will sell a lot more quickly and for a lot higher price if he''s being ridden on a regular basis? Does she secretly not want to sell him? And not that it''s really my business, but who gets the proceeds of this sale . . . your sister (who evidently doesn''t pay for anything for the horse) or your family (who has been paying for all of his needs)? Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh toward your sister, DF. It''s just that I see horse ownership (along with all of the benefits and responsibilities that entails) in a very different light than your sister does, I guess.

Thats the only reason I can think of too Emm that she doesn''t want to sell him, this is only speculation of course but maybe she is thinking if he is unfit and fresh because he hasn''t been ridden that it might put people off.

Lor, if that''s her plan, then I bet it will work . . . at least I know it would definitely put me off! LOL!

 

[TBjumper]

Hi DragonFly

: I agree with what the others have said, esp. the part about being what is best for your older gelding...keeping him in shape, keeping him from getting bored, and keeping him marketable.

HOWEVER, you said he has been for sale for a year with no bites? I understand its a hard market for horses right now, people can''t give them away. But can you tell me how she has him listed for sale? The reason I ask is my husband and his father run barrels usually at the 1D-2D level when they are having a "slow" day and they have had a mare for sale for about a year as well. She ran and placed at The World Finals in GA so top notch Appx Mare. Good size, brains, fast as all get out. She is a little hot and about 12 years old. Started around 4 yrs old and taken slowly.

(Husband dad starts all the babies and his dad really is the horse whisper type, think 150lbs soaking wet, leathery skin with a mustache, soft spoken... just the type I would send my horses to if I rode western. I love him to pieces

) I really was wondering why the heck she hadn''t sold.

Continuing with my novel.... I asked my Husband and his dad about it. My husband was really miffed why she hadn''t sold, but his father told me in confidence he is NOT advertising her as a barrel horse, and she''s really too fast/hot for just anyone to work with. The reason he is not selling her as a barrel horse is the vet found a heart murmur. He was basically told, running her could be her end, or she may NEVER have an issue with it at all and she could live to 30 yrs +. His father doesn''t feel its fair to the mare to sell her, have her run (and she realllllly loves to work, great little mare) and then have a heart attack. The issue is disclosed in the ad but it is also stated his father does NOT want her used in a speed sport anymore. He doesn''t want to see her hurt and feels like she has earned a healthy life.

This mare is too much for a trail horse, and will just be a holy terror to someone because she wants to RUN but his father has made his mind up that she has no business running anymore. He is walking the line of what''s better for her physically and what''s better for her mentally. Clearly he has picked physical because she he bored to tears...

So here is where I see a parallel. Maybe your sister isn''t disclosing why she hasn''t been able to sell the gelding or maybe there is another issue you don''t know about that is the underlying reason she doesn''t want you running the gelding? I would try to talk to her and get her to open up about the real reason why she doesn''t want you to ride him. If she is selling him as a barrel prospect 100%sound, you would be doing her and the horse a favor. If she is selling him as retired barrel, or trail or whatever you have another set of questions to ask...

Is it because he isn''t sound anymore, is he ring sour? Some of these horses just get to a breaking point mentally and start acting like jerks at the gate, get real nasty in the ring. Some of them have just had it, not really anything the owner did, but I like to think of it like I do my OTTB horses, there is only so many times a horse wants to run in a circle before they are like "Really?? Haven''t we had enough of this left turn left turn crud?"

Wow I have made this post WAYYYYY longer then it needed to be, but I guess the point of it was to follow your gut. If you think the gelding would benefit from work, and your parents are ok with it by all means go for it. Just realize IF and WHEN your sister finds out, and trust me she will, be prepared to feel the wrath. I would be totally PO''ed if someone was ridding my mare and I didn''t know about it. She is on a schedule and has supplements and special bump pads yadda yadda yadda that I would be angry if did get used.

Let us know how it turns out!!

 

[dragonfly411]

Hey all sorry I was gone for a bit.

To answer some questions. The horse is physically sound, he''s been vet checked, and has been with a friend of ours who has been riding him in local competitions, but because she hasn''t sold him, we''re bringing him home. We can''t really warrant letting her show him on our dime if he won''t sell. We being my family. My sister doesn''t ride at this point, and doesn''t pay towards horses. She''s 19, the horse is registered in her name. My family has bought both of her horses. They only bought my older gelding, the other was given to me as a gift and my last two mares I payed for, and I sold.

We''ve advertised him with age, as a solid 2D-3D horse. In his younger days (about 4 years ago) he would have had potential for 1D but sister was still starting and wouldn''t let him go fully. I won''t advertise him as 4h horse and neither will family b/c I don''t think he''d be suitable for a child under 12-13 years of age. He''s a spirited horse, he has a lot of energy, and I just don''t know that they could handle him on his rowdy days. We''ve advertised him at $3500, which I think is reasonable considering he''s a solid trained horse. He''d be great for a teenager or adult just starting out, but alas, no bites. We''ve mostly advertised him locally and on a few website venues.

I do like the lunging idea and may try that. Most people have told me to just ride him, but I also hate the idea of the respect thing and agree with it. I just feel bad b/c he loves to work and be ridden. He has no medical issues. He has shoes on, and requires them b/c his feet crack easily without, but that''s the only thing with him. He doesn''t have bad habits. I really think most of it is a jealousy issue. She wants to sell him, but doesn''t want a family member to have him b/c she''d be jealous of them.

 

[somethingshiny]

$3500 seems like a fair price, but this is a bad time for horses. Cutters are only bringing about $3000-$5000. While he may be "worth" the price to you, he''s not worth it to the current buyer.

Also, if you sell him as a SR 4H horse, I think you''d have an extended market. A Sr 4Her should be able to handle a spirited barrel horse. Also, in your ads (if at all possible) you should offer to at least show what he can do if not let the buyer try him out themselves. I understand their may be insurance risks with this.

 

[somethingshiny]

Date: 3/9/2010 5:45:06 PM
Author: dragonfly411
She wants to sell him, but doesn''t want a family member to have him b/c she''d be jealous of them.

Maybe you should suggest she put him down! Some people....no offense I hope....

 

[dragonfly411]

SS - none taken!!!!

We actually encourage people to ride our sale horses at least two to three times before buying. This is the first we''ve sold in about three years, as we had drastically reduced our numbers to just the four boys. the three will probably never leave us. The two older (one arthritic), and then the baby who I raised from a weaner, and who I''ve known since he was a month old (he was a cute bugger.. I so wish I had pictures of him that young.)

I''ll mention advertising as Sr. 4h horse, and see what they say to it. In the mean time, I''m giving him a few days to settle in at the house (he''s back from the girl''s place) and then I''m lunging him at least.

 

[waterlilly]

how old is your sister, 12?

that is ridiculous.

who really owns the horse - PAYS for his feed/keep? If it''s your parents, then it is their call, not your selfish sister''s.

 

[dragonfly411]

waterlily - she''s nineteen, and I agree. Just wanted other''s input.