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Health care when you're uninsured?

Circe

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Desperate times call for desperate measures - any of you guys have any tips on how to navigate the healthcare system sans insurance? In NYC.

My oldest friend graduated from law school recently and has been searching for work, but, well - recession. She just had to have an emergency appendectomy. She's being hit with a 15K bill. At her post-op checkup, her doctor was worried that she was short of breath and recommended a CT angiogram, like, STAT, but apparently while they did the emergency surgery, preventative care is only for people who are covered: she's been told she might be able to get the scan in 3 months, IF she qualifies for Medicaid. Not much help if she has a blood clot NOW.

Any advice, guys? I have no idea how to advise her. I don't even know where to start looking.
 

Ravinmad

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I dont know about NY or NYC for sure. most hospitals have a assistance office/grant office to help cover some if not all the costs associated with her medical treatment. The billing office/admin or Client rep should have the information. Red Cross and most like NGO's have assistance programs as well. She might be able to trade off some of that bill for work as well! She might have to goto another hospital and complain about a condition in the ER :Up_to_something: which whould require her to get a immediate CT scan thru emergency services.
Best of luck to her!
 

movie zombie

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there was something in the news regarding NYC, its receipt of federal $ for such instances, and instead using it to subsidize hospitals in other ways. there are supposed to be "advocates" within these systems. hospitals are supposed to use that $ to reduce patient bills. your friend is going to have to not take "no" for an answer, use her legal knowledge, and get a reduction in that bill. i wish her luck. unfortunately, she's going to need it.
 

Circe

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Re: Health care when you're uninsured?http://www.pricescope.

Ravinmad - THANK you, that link looks like it's going to be very helpful. She's been talking to the billing office, but, well, as eloquent as she is, she's been feeling more than a little stressed (exhaustion post-surgery isn't helping). Knowing her facts going in should be a tremendous help.

MoZo - I'm off to Google! Thanks for the heads-up - and for the sympathy.
 

movie zombie

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i don't know where i read it, circe....could have been huffington post...or something esle.
similar case where woman went into emergency and had a surgery then a lot of extra tests were ordered that required her to stay in hospital longer. everyone knew she didn't have insurance. it has been some years that she's fight it.
good luck.

eta: http://hospitals.nyhealth.gov/psa.php
 

decodelighted

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If she's going to be a lawyer .... maybe this would work short term: http://www.carecredit.com/

Not ideal, certainly. She's an educated woman who made an educated risk to go uninsured. There's a certain school of thought that she should really pay the costs *herself*.

I hope she gets the care she needs asap!!!
 

MissStepcut

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decodelighted|1331914759|3150040 said:
If she's going to be a lawyer .... maybe this would work short term: http://www.carecredit.com/

Not ideal, certainly. She's an educated woman who made an educated risk to go uninsured. There's a certain school of thought that she should really pay the costs *herself*.

I hope she gets the care she needs asap!!!
Is it really an educated risk when you have no alternative?

If she could get a line of credit to cover it, however, that would probably be helpful. And dischargeable in bankruptcy, unlike her student loans.
 

decodelighted

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MissStepcut|1331915027|3150046 said:
decodelighted|1331914759|3150040 said:
She's an educated woman who made an educated risk to go uninsured.
Is it really an educated risk when you have no alternative?
I don't know the situation & you don't either. There are student insurance plans available. And going to law school instead of taking a job w/insurance is also a choice. *IF* this is a case where someone has used their means for personal gain & enrichment while neglecting their obligation to protect themselves & their future earnings w/health insurance -- should society pick up that tab? AGAIN: I don't know this situation. Only responding to the hypothetical scenario stated.

Believe me, I have been on the other end of this. As a creative freelancer I spent many years making this same risk. And felt scared all the time about it. The moment I was able to afford insurance I did.
 

MissStepcut

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decodelighted|1331915783|3150058 said:
MissStepcut|1331915027|3150046 said:
decodelighted|1331914759|3150040 said:
She's an educated woman who made an educated risk to go uninsured.
Is it really an educated risk when you have no alternative?
I don't know the situation & you don't either. There are student insurance plans available. And going to law school instead of taking a job w/insurance is also a choice. *IF* this is a case where someone has used their means for personal gain & enrichment while neglecting their obligation to protect themselves & their future earnings w/health insurance -- should society pick up that tab? AGAIN: I don't know this situation. Only responding to the hypothetical scenario stated.

Believe me, I have been on the other end of this. As a creative freelancer I spent many years making this same risk. And felt scared all the time about it. The moment I was able to afford insurance I did.
Well you stated that she made the educated risk, but I don't know many unemployed law grads sitting on the $$$ you would need to get a policy after graduating without a job. Of course, there are student plans for people who are still in school: I'm on one. But I can't stay on it after the September following my graduation. I really don't know what alternatives a recent grad has if they can't find work that has insurance benefits.

When I was in college I did use creditcare though and had a good experience.
 

decodelighted

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Starbucks has health insurance benefits, no?
 

amc80

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decodelighted|1331917331|3150079 said:
Starbucks has health insurance benefits, no?

Yep. I worked at Home Depot in college, part time, and they offered insurance as well.
 

sonnyjane

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No judgement here! One reason I had such a short engagement (just two months) was to get on my husband's health insurance ASAP!

Good luck to your friend! Hopefully she finds a way to cover expenses.
 

rubybeth

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I've used http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ more than once to get insurance while unemployed or under-employed (working 2 jobs). One time, I didn't qualify for the plan for which I applied, so my state (MN) offered me a plan instead as per state law that was relatively affordable, and some states have need-based payment structures for these thing. Even a plan with a high deductible (like $10k) at least puts a cap on what you have to pay out of pocket, and you sometimes get discounts on procedures via the insurance. Not helpful if she's already had the procedures, but for future reference.
 

fleur-de-lis

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decodelighted|1331917331|3150079 said:
Starbucks has health insurance benefits, no?

Starbucks doesn't hire everyone who applies, no? :halo:


(Or to quote a recent Cracked.com article which could also apply to this situation, "It's like setting a jar of moonshine on the floor of a boxcar full of 10 hobos and saying, "Now fight for it!" Sure, in the bloody aftermath you can say to each of the losers, "Hey, you could have had it if you'd fought harder!" and that's true on an individual level. But not collectively -- you knew goddamned well that nine hobos weren't getting any hooch that night. So why are you acting like it's their fault that only one of them is drunk?")
 

iheartscience

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fleur-de-lis|1331927911|3150235 said:
decodelighted|1331917331|3150079 said:
Starbucks has health insurance benefits, no?

Starbucks doesn't hire everyone who applies, no? :halo:

(Or to quote a recent Cracked.com article which could also apply to this situation, "It's like setting a jar of moonshine on the floor of a boxcar full of 10 hobos and saying, "Now fight for it!" Sure, in the bloody aftermath you can say to each of the losers, "Hey, you could have had it if you'd fought harder!" and that's true on an individual level. But not collectively -- you knew goddamned well that nine hobos weren't getting any hooch that night. So why are you acting like it's their fault that only one of them is drunk?")

Ha, great analogy. I'm quite sure there are many people who would LOVE to work for Starbucks (or ANYWHERE with benefits), but most companies tend to not hire everyone who applies. At a job I was at a few years ago, we posted an entry level administrative assistant/research assistant position and got applications from multiple PhDs, master's degree holders and MBAs. I believe the pay range topped out at $28k.
 

decodelighted

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fleur-de-lis|1331927911|3150235 said:
decodelighted|1331917331|3150079 said:
Starbucks has health insurance benefits, no?
Starbucks doesn't hire everyone who applies, no? :halo:
Since this is directed at me, I'll answer. Nope, they don't. And I have no argument that the health care situation in this country is all kinds of broken. But I also don't think that *recent law school graduates* are who medical aid charity programs are targeted towards.

It's a tough situation, regardless and I hope Circe's dear friend gets the medical attention they need ASAP!!! Maybe the recent student's school can be of some assistance?
 

makemepretty

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I don't know about New York but in Michigan Medicaid will pay back bills of three months. So, she should apply now to see if she qualifies, it's not too late. I don't know her financial status but if she can't do a payment plan, maybe she'd qualify for bankruptcy when all is said and done. I hope she doesn't worry about it too much, there are many out there in her position.
 

Imdanny

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Circe, I'm so sorry your friend is in this position. I've been there. It's rough. The only thing I can really add to the advice you've been given is please tell your friend not to necessarily believe anything she is told, by anyone, ever, in this situation, because while it's often difficult or impossible for people who haven't experienced it to believe, there is often collusion, even some involving people you would never expect to be dishonest, to deny people health care who don't have insurance, whether they are legally entitled to it or not. Best of luck to your friend. Hugs.
 

Asscherhalo_lover

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Worst case scenario, set up a low as hell payment plan. I had a visit to the ER a few years ago for a bad asthma attack. I had no insurance, didn't even know I had asthma! I had 1 nebulizer treatment and an x-ray. Cost me 3k. When I got the bill I saw that it cost me over 1k just to walk through the door.

I pay them $25 a month. They wanna charge me that much, they're gonna wait a damn long time to get it. Hospital bills won't kill you, just be honest with them and set up a payment plan you can live with if need be.

Good luck!
 

Rhea

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Sometimes working at Starbucks or Home Depot is also making a choice to earn a fairly low wage in a job that has no future for earning more or moving up. My sister didn't make the cut at Starbucks, even with previous coffee shop experience. Instead she finished her training elsewhere and recently landed a job doing what she wants. Her job doesn't offer healthcare for the first 6 months.
 

y2kitty

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Sad situation for sure, but she could have gotten catastrophic health insurance which would have covered her.
 

fleur-de-lis

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decodelighted|1331929082|3150253 said:
fleur-de-lis|1331927911|3150235 said:
decodelighted|1331917331|3150079 said:
Starbucks has health insurance benefits, no?
Starbucks doesn't hire everyone who applies, no? :halo:
Since this is directed at me, I'll answer. Nope, they don't. And I have no argument that the health care situation in this country is all kinds of broken. But I also don't think that *recent law school graduates* are who medical aid charity programs are targeted towards.

It's a tough situation, regardless and I hope Circe's dear friend gets the medical attention they need ASAP!!! Maybe the recent student's school can be of some assistance?

FWIW, it was more directed towards the specific argument put forth than you as an individual-- as a longtime reader here with a great appreciation for the witty, I think you're 83 kinds of awesome, DecoD.

Or it could just be that I was just dying to insert a hobo-reference here. We don't have nearly enough of 'em on this diamond forum.
 

Jennifer W

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Circe|1331912136|3150007 said:
Desperate times call for desperate measures - any of you guys have any tips on how to navigate the healthcare system sans insurance? In NYC.

My oldest friend graduated from law school recently and has been searching for work, but, well - recession. She just had to have an emergency appendectomy. She's being hit with a 15K bill. At her post-op checkup, her doctor was worried that she was short of breath and recommended a CT angiogram, like, STAT, but apparently while they did the emergency surgery, preventative care is only for people who are covered: she's been told she might be able to get the scan in 3 months, IF she qualifies for Medicaid. Not much help if she has a blood clot NOW.

Any advice, guys? I have no idea how to advise her. I don't even know where to start looking.

http://www.nysba.org/Content/NavigationMenu/ForAttorneys/LawyerAssistanceProgramLAP/Lawyer_Assistance_Pr.htm

I wonder if they could help or suggest an organisation that could? We have an equivalent organisation where I live and they provide financial assistance in limited circumstances to support members of the profession at all levels. Obviously not for health care here, and I don't know what their attitude to health related costs would be, but it might be worth checking out.

I'm so sorry to hear she is having to deal with this, Circe.
 

perry

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Tough situation.

Dr's and Hospitals are requried by law to provide basic care regardless of the ability of the person to pay. My Dr freinds tell me that they know they will never be paid for about 20% of the work they do (and some specialties are higher than that). To make up for that - they charge everyone else more.

Hospitals and clinics also know they will never get paid for a lot of service they provide; and charge every one else more to cover that.

Their are some goverment programs to help people. Should their be and to what degree would be a huge debate because a lot of health care cost are the result of personal choices. I really do not support others paying for the cost resulting from obvious personal choices.

I have been unemployed and not able to get permanent work with insurance for many years (back in the 1990's). I purchased a major medical policy for about 10 years which would cover most of the cost of something like this (but did not cover non-major events); but due to medical issues and "routine" cost of normal Drs and Specialists ended up almost $45,000 in debt after a several years as my medical issues also affected my ability to get the better paying jobs (and I never used my major medical policy). I was able to pay the debt off once I solved enough problems and got a normal full time job with insurance a little over a decade ago.

Major medical insurance is not the expensive (I just purchased such an insurance policy for my financee). So this person made a choice (and perhaps the choice they made was not to educate themselves on health insurance options; which is still their choice).

So, I think that this person should be at least partly responsible; and yes, have to pay it back. Or, declair personal bankruptcy as necessary.

Perry
 

missy

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Have you tried your state bar association? They may offer health insurance at reduced rates. Good luck and I hope your friend starts feeling better soon Circe and finds a great job so this is all a distant memory!!
 

Circe

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God, guys - thank you so much. All this stuff looks like it should be terribly useful. She wound up having to go to another ER to get the scan the doctor had recommended (thus illustrating just how messed up our healthcare system is): the good news is, no blood-clot, the bad news is, the nurse on duty off-handedly told her she'd probably get cancer from having had to get two scans so close together.

I hate that nurse.

I'm doing my best to refocus attention on the fact that the first scan saved her life, since it showed the appendix that required surgery, and that the takeaway from the second is that she does NOT have a blood-clot, which is awesome, but, you know. She's had a ridiculously hard couple of weeks, and being slapped with the insinuation that the thing she had to do to save her life might kill her a little down the line made her feel kinda hopeless.

For the record: the reason she didn't buy healthcare is that she couldn't afford it; the reason she didn't take a job, any job, for the insurance is that the low-prestige ones called her overqualified and wouldn't hire her, and the high-prestige ones are, well, ridiculously competitive in a bad economy.

When I started the thread, all I was hoping for was some advice on how to get her the treatment she needed NOW, which was provided almost instantaneously, for which I thank you ALL: the additional links on how to deal with the debt after-the-fact were sort of gravy. But, uh - and I hope this isn't taken as ungrateful - could we maybe start a different thread to debate the morality of health insurance? Using my friend as the poster child when I just saw her despondent over the situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know I opened it up when I raised the question - I just didn't see it coming.

Again - THANK YOU, so much, Ravinmad, MoZo, Deco, MSC, Vapid, AMC, SonnyJane, RubyBeth, Fleur-de-Lis, Thing, MakeMePretty, Danny, Asscherhalo_Lover, Rhea, HereKittyKitty, Jen, Perry, Missy.
 

diamondseeker2006

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herekittykitty|1331931065|3150281 said:
Sad situation for sure, but she could have gotten catastrophic health insurance which would have covered her.

When my daughter did not have employer-provided insurance, she got a high deductible policy for a little over $100 a month. Had she had an emergency surgery like the one above, she would have ended up with a $3500 deductible to pay.

I understand people choosing to gamble, but like deco, I think when you lose, you pay. That said, when my son had some medical bills with no insurance, the hospital absolutely did discount it. Sometimes you have to provide proof of hardship..income, etc.
 

perry

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Circe:

I do wish your freind the best; and you are a good sport in trying to help her.

I do believe in personal charity - and that if we all helped other people directly there would be a lot fewer problems in this world. It is not unusal for me to spend hundreds to thousand dollars directly helping other people on a case by case basis each year. This is in addition to substaintial support to 501C3 charities every year for which I get a not insignificant tax writeoff.

I also understand the difficulties in finding employment at times. Especially in the current labor market.

There are actually a number (%) of the population that really is in difficulties and does need help. I do support the concept of government and private organization support for those people.

With that being said. I also feel the need to say that I am also somewhat skeptical on the situation as a lot of people who tell me that they are broke, and did not have choices, are not really that broke and did have choices. Events like this can be an start on an education into those choices; which, if done correctly will help set up that person for much greater success in the future.

I grew up in poverty much worse than most cases I see today. Also, from 1990 to 2001 (my bad decade where I went from having enough cash on hand to buy a house free and clear and a decent retirement account to almost $45,000 in debt with no retirement account) I lived in some pretty basic arrangments with minimal items.

Something that is usually instructive is to actually list out everything a person has spent money on both currently and in the last number of years; and break it down into true needs (food, basic housing, etc); nice to haves (better food, housing, etc); and just entertainment or fun. It is my observation that a number of people are spending most of their money on the nice to haves and entertainment and fun and ignoring needs such as basic insurances (I classify a major medical policy as a need) and a certain amount of emergency fund savings; and I almost never meet a student with a basic phone and basic phone service (even just a basic cell phone with basic cell coverage) and an older laptop computer.

I am also amazed on the number of people who do not shop arround for service and end up signing pricy contracts for the same level of service. As an example, in my area I can get Verizon nationwide network cellphone services for about 60% of the Verizon cost by using Cellcom. I also note that I am unsure if Verizon even owns a single cell tower in the nation (I doubt it). Cellcom owns the CDMA technology cell-towers in this region of Wisconsin; and there are other regional cellphone companies doing the same thing everywhere - you just have to find them (Spint and Verizon use CDMA; ATT uses GSM - but again there is a regional carrier that owns the GSM toweres in my region).

Just some concepts to help prevent this in the future.

Have a great day,

Perry
 
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