(Good) Aging parents and money

[CJ2008]

I am watching azstonie's thread with great interest because I have parents in their mid 70s and I feel that we soon need to have the "money talk" with them, and I am hoping that they will be open to and allow me to help and want to make a plan for their upcoming years.

The truth is I am petrified of how their financial situation might end up affecting us, even though my parents are good people and have always tried to do the right thing money wise.

But in the recent years they made a few investment decisions that didn't work out well and they've basically for the last several years had to go through their savings and home equity and whatever moneys they had set aside. Which of course them having moneys they could tap into is testament to them doing the right thing.

They still have some money left, but neither of them are working and they are spending more per month than they take in. I did a few quick calculations and if they continue at the rate they are now that money will last them 2-3 years tops. And that's not including paying off their credit card debts which are maxed out, maxed out home equity, etc. That's just living and making minimum payments.

I feel overwhelmed and scared - but also resentful, because as good as my parents are I do sense that on some level my parents' underlying attitude is "we did the right thing by you guys all our lives and never asked you for anything - we had a few episodes of bad luck/bad investments that were beyond our control so if in the end you have to pay off our debts little by little oh well."

That is an attitude that bothers me, even though I can understand it in a way. And I could also see how it may be many a child's attitude - They did the right thing, they're good people, well of course we'll do whatever we need to do to help.

But the truth is I feel resentful and scared. They needed to borrow money from us recently and it was not easy for me to let them borrow it. I think part of the fear and the resentment comes from DH and I not being where WE need to be at our age.

And I just don't know where to start. Well, I did take some steps (put a worksheet together with whatever debts and expenses I know about, and whatever incoming moneys I know about, called a financial advisor (haven't seen her yet), thought about a POA) but still feel scared and paralyzed. I know I need to have a conversation with them and show them the worksheet and tell them about the POA but I keep procrastinating on it. I don't feel "organized". I hope the financial advisor might help with that, but I also know that won't be free. Do I pay for it? Do I ask them to pay for it (they probably would think it's ridiculous to do). I feel like whatever I suggest they will view as selfish, as just a way to protect myself, even though, I've played the role of advisor to them many times, and always with their best interest at heart (I couldn't care LESS whether they leave me with a single penny - but on the other hand, I don't want to have to pay for their debts or mistakes or money mismanagement. I have my own money problems.)

So I am wondering if anyone is in a similar situation with aging parents, what did you do? What specific steps did you take? How did you deal with the fear and resentment (if you felt any?) If there were attitudes from your parents you didn't agree with, did you call them out in the open, or did you keep your opinions to yourself? If they resisted or didn't agree to your suggestions did you still end up letting them borrow money or giving them money to live?

 

[movie zombie]

.........
I feel overwhelmed and scared - but also resentful, because as good as my parents are I do sense that on some level my parents' underlying attitude is "we did the right thing by you guys all our lives and never asked you for anything - we had a few episodes of bad luck/bad investments that were beyond our control so if in the end you have to pay off our debts little by little oh well."

That is an attitude that bothers me, even though I can understand it in a way. And I could also see how it may be many a child's attitude - They did the right thing, they're good people, well of course we'll do whatever we need to do to help.

But the truth is I feel resentful and scared. They needed to borrow money from us recently and it was not easy for me to let them borrow it. I think part of the fear and the resentment comes from DH and I not being where WE need to be at our age.

And I just don't know where to start. Well, I did take some steps (put a worksheet together with whatever debts and expenses I know about, and whatever incoming moneys I know about, called a financial advisor (haven't seen her yet), thought about a POA) but still feel scared and paralyzed. I know I need to have a conversation with them and show them the worksheet and tell them about the POA but I keep procrastinating on it. I don't feel "organized". I hope the financial advisor might help with that, but I also know that won't be free. Do I pay for it? Do I ask them to pay for it (they probably would think it's ridiculous to do). I feel like whatever I suggest they will view as selfish, as just a way to protect myself, even though, I've played the role of advisor to them many times, and always with their best interest at heart (I couldn't care LESS whether they leave me with a single penny - but on the other hand, I don't want to have to pay for their debts or mistakes or money mismanagement. I have my own money problems.)

So I am wondering if anyone is in a similar situation with aging parents, what did you do? What specific steps did you take? How did you deal with the fear and resentment (if you felt any?) If there were attitudes from your parents you didn't agree with, did you call them out in the open, or did you keep your opinions to yourself? If they resisted or didn't agree to your suggestions did you still end up letting them borrow money or giving them money to live?

sorry but imo parents have you and raising you is their obligation. they made their decisions re investments, savings, etc. if I had lots of $ it might be different but I wouldn't be loaning them $ or taking on their debts based on what you've written.

I grew up working class poor but one thing my parents always did was save, Save, SAVE. they're better off now then they ever were when I was at home. debt free [had a 20 year mortgage in 1956 which they paid off 15 years later]. they are both "depression era survivors" and I do believe that they made their decisions based on Not wanting to be a burden to family.

some years back my father went through a bad time and assets were moved, gifts made, annuities set up, etc. which I assisted with to make sure my mother would be covered. all legal. I do not expect to be asked to contribute to their finances. however, I have a POA which I've never used as my mother is perfectly capable of handling their finances. I am also executor of their estate.

my parents went without a lot of things and lived a very humble poor working class life in order to be in the situation they are now. I'm thankful that they did.

the one time I did request a loan from my parents[back was really against the wall![ it was thought out long and hard and then I was presented with a contract to sign. I made payments each month and after it was paid about 3/4, one Christmas my holiday gift was the cancellation of the loan. I bring this up because if now I did pick up my parents debts I would expect to be paid back out of their estate should their be anything left over. actually, I'm hoping they spend it all. but I was asked, a contract would be prepared for their signature and my brother would be advised so there would be no misunderstandings later.

not sure if this is helpful or not so the real short version answer to your questions: no, you are not responsible imo for your parents debts and for them to assume you will just go ahead and do it is not only presumptions but also imo a very unloving thing to do.

 

[MissGotRocks]

So if they sold their home would they be able to pay off all debts - including home equity and credit card debt? I'm guessing the answer is no. It might then be that they would need to file bankruptcy. I'm just guessing as I don't know all the facts.

Their debts are theirs - not yours. You would never be required legally to cover those debts. However, in the event of their deaths, assets would be sold and debts have to be paid before any inheritance would come your way. If there isn't enough in assets to cover their debts, then the creditors are stuck with them.

Getting financial and legal help is the best thing you can help them do at this point. I don't know what their income is or what the source of it is but clearly it's not enough for them to live in their current house. Otherwise, they wouldn't have home equity and credit card debt. I don't say this as a criticism. Many of today's elderly have a tough time making ends meet - prescription drugs alone can eat up a lot of their money.

I have been through a similar circumstance but all details are different in each case. My advice is to obtain the best counsel you can in terms of next steps for them. It might mean moving them into senior living where their rent would be based on their income. Going further and further into debt doesn't make sense.

As for your feelings, one day, one step at a time. It is troubling I know but we all do the best we can when faced with an uphill battle. Collect all the facts, perhaps contact an elder care attorney, and go from there.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree. You will never be responsible for your parents' debt unless you have co-signed loans, and I surely hope that is not the case. Because they are living beyond their means, do NOT loan them any more money. They cannot pay you back, and they are not spending wisely. If their savings and investments will be gone in 2-3 years, then all they will have left is social security and possibly pensions. It sounds like to me they will end up going bankrupt anyway.

But here's how it worked for me in relation to my parents. My aunt had a stroke and she was fortunately able to do the elder care lawyer thing and have a new will, healthcare power of attorney, regular POA, living will, etc. done. After that, my mother realized that she and my dad needed to do the same thing, so I went with her. I'd say she was around 73 at the time. My dad died from Alzheimers 5 years ago, and 3 years ago my mother had a stroke and had to go into a nursing home. So at that point, my sister and I had to assume the role of POA so we could handle our mother's affairs.

Thankfully, my parents lived within their means and had no debt at all. The savings they had has gone towards expensive nursing home care for my mother (and a year or two prior for my father). The house was the only thing protected for the kids through a life estate deed. If my mother outlives her money, she will go on Medicaid and they will pay the difference between her monthly income and the nursing home bills.

Your parents do need to see a financial advisor. You cannot stop them from making huge mistakes (and it sounds like they already have). But you can steer them to someone who can advise them as to what they can do now. And under no circumstances (unless you are so wealthy that it doesn't matter to you) should you jeopardize your own retirement by giving them money at this point. It is no different than giving an alcoholic alcohol, in my opinion. If they ask for another "loan", you can say that you'd like to help them but until they repay the previous loan, you just have no excess money to lend them.

I am so sorry you are in this position. It isn't easy to deal with under any circumstances, but it is especially hard when you are watching them make terrible decisions.

 

[marymm]

Legally you are not responsible for their debts.

Assuming your parents are in full possession of their faculties, you cannot force them to address this issue.

You are in control of how you react and what you say when they bring it up, however.

Please do not put yourself and your own family at risk (financially and/or emotionally) by taking on your parents' debts.

If your parents are in over their head and continuing to live far beyond their means, perhaps bankruptcy is an option for them, either straight liquidation under Chapter 7 or a reorganization/payment plan under Chapter 13.

Since you love them and say they are good people, maybe you can just remind them they are in control of their finances and while you can assist them in finding a financial advisor or debt consolidation agency or bankruptcy attorney, you and your family are in no position to offer financial assistance.

 

[azstonie]

Hi---My dad is a spender and my mom is a saver. They have plenty of money BUT they fight like cats and dogs over it, they hide money from each other, they have several checking accounts in play, it's a mess. They live in a CCRC so although they are fully independent now, their care including Alzheimer's/memory care or full time 24-hour skilled nursing is covered/included. They cant be kicked out for future lack of funds unless they caused it (gambling, shopping, etc). If you could get them into a CCRC, preferably a nonprofit, that would benefit you and your parents.

I know the anxiety you are feeling right now. Boy do I.

I wonder if you have siblings, could there be a financial intervention? You would want professional help available if the intervention succeeded, an accountant to go over their finances. A meeting with everyone when the accountant completes his review to develop a plan.

One piece of info, is the state your parents reside in a filial responsibility state? In my case, we all live in AZ now, which has no laws making children financially responsible for their parents. Many states who do have filial responsibility don't enforce it; some do. Google your state and "filial responsibility" to find out.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, the whole thing is hard.

 

[azstonie]

You won't be responsible for their debt. That is between the creditor and them.

You want to ensure you don't destroy your own finances supporting them from this point until they pass on.

Forgive me for pointing this out, but they cannot live with you because once they are there, it's for good unless they go voluntarily. Unless you're on board with that.

Look up reverse mortgages. These are good if you didn't plan to inherit their house and your parents need additional income. Be careful if you go this route, pay a lawyer to review the contract before they sign.

 

[movie zombie]

and to echo the above, once they are in your home, they are in your home. legally. you invited them in. that is what the law cares about. to get them out means having to do it lawfully which includes eviction just like is done for a rental property. this is regardless of whether or not they are paying you rent. the bottom line is you invited them.....and they cannot be forced to leave w/o proper papers served.

I certainly hope this is not a consideration!

 

[CJ2008]

.........
I feel overwhelmed and scared - but also resentful, because as good as my parents are I do sense that on some level my parents' underlying attitude is "we did the right thing by you guys all our lives and never asked you for anything - we had a few episodes of bad luck/bad investments that were beyond our control so if in the end you have to pay off our debts little by little oh well."

That is an attitude that bothers me, even though I can understand it in a way. And I could also see how it may be many a child's attitude - They did the right thing, they're good people, well of course we'll do whatever we need to do to help.

But the truth is I feel resentful and scared. They needed to borrow money from us recently and it was not easy for me to let them borrow it. I think part of the fear and the resentment comes from DH and I not being where WE need to be at our age.

And I just don't know where to start. Well, I did take some steps (put a worksheet together with whatever debts and expenses I know about, and whatever incoming moneys I know about, called a financial advisor (haven't seen her yet), thought about a POA) but still feel scared and paralyzed. I know I need to have a conversation with them and show them the worksheet and tell them about the POA but I keep procrastinating on it. I don't feel "organized". I hope the financial advisor might help with that, but I also know that won't be free. Do I pay for it? Do I ask them to pay for it (they probably would think it's ridiculous to do). I feel like whatever I suggest they will view as selfish, as just a way to protect myself, even though, I've played the role of advisor to them many times, and always with their best interest at heart (I couldn't care LESS whether they leave me with a single penny - but on the other hand, I don't want to have to pay for their debts or mistakes or money mismanagement. I have my own money problems.)

So I am wondering if anyone is in a similar situation with aging parents, what did you do? What specific steps did you take? How did you deal with the fear and resentment (if you felt any?) If there were attitudes from your parents you didn't agree with, did you call them out in the open, or did you keep your opinions to yourself? If they resisted or didn't agree to your suggestions did you still end up letting them borrow money or giving them money to live?

sorry but imo parents have you and raising you is their obligation. they made their decisions re investments, savings, etc. if I had lots of $ it might be different but I wouldn't be loaning them $ or taking on their debts based on what you've written.

I grew up working class poor but one thing my parents always did was save, Save, SAVE. they're better off now then they ever were when I was at home. debt free [had a 20 year mortgage in 1956 which they paid off 15 years later]. they are both "depression era survivors" and I do believe that they made their decisions based on Not wanting to be a burden to family.

some years back my father went through a bad time and assets were moved, gifts made, annuities set up, etc. which I assisted with to make sure my mother would be covered. all legal. I do not expect to be asked to contribute to their finances. however, I have a POA which I've never used as my mother is perfectly capable of handling their finances. I am also executor of their estate.

my parents went without a lot of things and lived a very humble poor working class life in order to be in the situation they are now. I'm thankful that they did.

the one time I did request a loan from my parents[back was really against the wall![ it was thought out long and hard and then I was presented with a contract to sign. I made payments each month and after it was paid about 3/4, one Christmas my holiday gift was the cancellation of the loan. I bring this up because if now I did pick up my parents debts I would expect to be paid back out of their estate should their be anything left over. actually, I'm hoping they spend it all. but I was asked, a contract would be prepared for their signature and my brother would be advised so there would be no misunderstandings later.

not sure if this is helpful or not so the real short version answer to your questions: no, you are not responsible imo for your parents debts and for them to assume you will just go ahead and do it is not only presumptions but also imo a very unloving thing to do.

I agree with you MZ. Even though it wasn't their intention - and they really did try very hard to set themselves up and worked hard - life insurance, etc. - whatever they had they had to borrow against because of a few decisions that didn't turn out in their favor.

What makes it so difficult is that NOW they're running out of money and it's not easy to feel OK with telling your mid 70s parents they need to get a job. What just hit me - and I mean like right now, as I was writing back to you - is that basically they both lived off whatever moneys they had accumulated for many years now - without working. I never stopped to question it, even though thinking back my mom did tell me a few times here and there "oh we're going to have to touch that money that we had intended to keep for you guys." And of course in the moment, I'm like "don't worry about us! spend your $. Do what you need to do."

What I didn't realize is that yeah - in the meantime they were accruing huge amounts of debt, not working, and that those moneys that were for us could've been put to smarter use. Like making sure they'd be reserves for them to live off of.

 

[CJ2008]

So if they sold their home would they be able to pay off all debts - including home equity and credit card debt? I'm guessing the answer is no. It might then be that they would need to file bankruptcy. I'm just guessing as I don't know all the facts.

Their debts are theirs - not yours. You would never be required legally to cover those debts. However, in the event of their deaths, assets would be sold and debts have to be paid before any inheritance would come your way. If there isn't enough in assets to cover their debts, then the creditors are stuck with them.

Getting financial and legal help is the best thing you can help them do at this point. I don't know what their income is or what the source of it is but clearly it's not enough for them to live in their current house. Otherwise, they wouldn't have home equity and credit card debt. I don't say this as a criticism. Many of today's elderly have a tough time making ends meet - prescription drugs alone can eat up a lot of their money.

I have been through a similar circumstance but all details are different in each case. My advice is to obtain the best counsel you can in terms of next steps for them. It might mean moving them into senior living where their rent would be based on their income. Going further and further into debt doesn't make sense.

As for your feelings, one day, one step at a time. It is troubling I know but we all do the best we can when faced with an uphill battle. Collect all the facts, perhaps contact an elder care attorney, and go from there.

MGR - if they sold their home the only thing they would be able to repay is what they owe on their home equity. Last time I checked their apt. is valued at about what they owe.

I think my parents are very very very very far away from even THINKING about moving to a different apartment, much less into a senior living situation (although are these just regular apartments - so they can be nice - but rent controlled?)

That's what really scares me - it's almost like they used to be so much more receptive and now the more they need to start doing the more they seem to resist it or question it.

I think my mother "says" all the right things but really underneath it all she expects that we should be OK with paying their debts and doing whatever is necessary. (eta - again she has actually said that if we need to, we'll just pay off their debts little by little - so she has made those expectations clear).

What makes it also very difficult is that they know DH makes a good income and since we have no children why wouldn't we have the money. Lately when my father makes comments like it's different for you guys, you can afford it (I forget what we were talking about, maybe a trip or something), I want to cringe. We are far away from the where we should be and want to be. And we'll be even further away if we have to tap into what we have to pay their debts or support their living expenses. Not to mention we have DH's parents to worry about too, also not in a great financial situation.

ETA: MGR yes I am slowly collecting all the facts although here too is a little bit of an uphill battle. My mother has always been very open to giving me their financial information - like I said, I've acted as their "advisor" for many things - but she has become more resistant. So although she has given me a lot there are still a lot of holes that she's vague about. I realize here, a third (neutral) party like a financial advisor might also come in handy. I have an appointment with one this week and plan to see 1 or 2 more before making a choice. I cannot fathom doing this without some guidance, even though I am not looking forward to the fee, and possibly trying to convince my parents we need to do this - and if they don't want to pay convince my DH we need to pay for this.

 

[CJ2008]

I agree. You will never be responsible for your parents' debt unless you have co-signed loans, and I surely hope that is not the case. Because they are living beyond their means, do NOT loan them any more money. They cannot pay you back, and they are not spending wisely. If their savings and investments will be gone in 2-3 years, then all they will have left is social security and possibly pensions. It sounds like to me they will end up going bankrupt anyway.

But here's how it worked for me in relation to my parents. My aunt had a stroke and she was fortunately able to do the elder care lawyer thing and have a new will, healthcare power of attorney, regular POA, living will, etc. done. After that, my mother realized that she and my dad needed to do the same thing, so I went with her. I'd say she was around 73 at the time. My dad died from Alzheimers 5 years ago, and 3 years ago my mother had a stroke and had to go into a nursing home. So at that point, my sister and I had to assume the role of POA so we could handle our mother's affairs.

Thankfully, my parents lived within their means and had no debt at all. The savings they had has gone towards expensive nursing home care for my mother (and a year or two prior for my father). The house was the only thing protected for the kids through a life estate deed. If my mother outlives her money, she will go on Medicaid and they will pay the difference between her monthly income and the nursing home bills.

Your parents do need to see a financial advisor. You cannot stop them from making huge mistakes (and it sounds like they already have). But you can steer them to someone who can advise them as to what they can do now. And under no circumstances (unless you are so wealthy that it doesn't matter to you) should you jeopardize your own retirement by giving them money at this point. It is no different than giving an alcoholic alcohol, in my opinion. If they ask for another "loan", you can say that you'd like to help them but until they repay the previous loan, you just have no excess money to lend them.

I am so sorry you are in this position. It isn't easy to deal with under any circumstances, but it is especially hard when you are watching them make terrible decisions.

Thank you DS2006.

Thank you all, if I have not already said it.

I have not co-signed any loans with them - I am not the co-sign "type." So on that end thankfully I have nothing to worry about.

We are definitely not wealthy by any means even though DH makes a good income. But I have to admit even if I were wealthy I would not be OK with just giving someone money. That just has never been my "wiring." If I were wealthy, I'd hire a financial advisor for them, a DMM, and an elder care attorney and make sure we had the best advice available. But I am not a "give money" type of person. Especially not if someone is making mistakes and/or expecting the money from me.

They have just come into some money from something that they sold so they will be able to repay that loan. The one step I took which was agonizing is to ask them to please not touch that money or do anything major with that money until we talk. I want to buy some time and be prepared with some ideas and suggestions - including I'd like us to see advisor x - first. She seemed to be OK with that. So at least I put the subtle idea out there - I didn't want to come on too strong - that this money needs to be protected, that there's PLANNING that needs to be done. So at least my mother might thing twice before buying tickets for a trip to Europe or having expensive cosmetic procedures (she talked about doing both several times when she knew she was going to potentially get this money). So we'll see - it's only the first step in what I'm sure is going to be many steps of talking and persuading and who knows what else. I am not looking forward to it but I am just doing one step at a time and hopefully every little step is progress.

 

[CJ2008]

Legally you are not responsible for their debts.

Assuming your parents are in full possession of their faculties, you cannot force them to address this issue.

You are in control of how you react and what you say when they bring it up, however.

Please do not put yourself and your own family at risk (financially and/or emotionally) by taking on your parents' debts.

If your parents are in over their head and continuing to live far beyond their means, perhaps bankruptcy is an option for them, either straight liquidation under Chapter 7 or a reorganization/payment plan under Chapter 13.

Since you love them and say they are good people, maybe you can just remind them they are in control of their finances and while you can assist them in finding a financial advisor or debt consolidation agency or bankruptcy attorney, you and your family are in no position to offer financial assistance.

This is so so difficult to say for so many reasons (like what I said in my above post to DS) but it's something I'd LIKE to say outloud to them. I'd LIKE to tell them that DH and I have things of our own we want to do, we need to do, that we have not yet done, and that it wouldn't be good for us if we had to take on their expenses. That it wouldn't be fair. That it wouldn't be right. That just because they've tried all these years to do the right thing it doesn't mean now they get sit back burn through their $ and expect that we should just want to pick up their slack.

But I don't know if I'll be able to say anything like this. As it is I have a difficult time with confrontation and the fact that I know there's an underlying expectation there makes it even more difficult for me to say it without a negative feeling behind it and guilt and so many other emotions and is what makes it feel like a confrontation rather than a team effort. I am trying - and again here's where a neutral 3rd party may help - to find a way to talk to them calmly, and gently, yet also factually and honestly.

 

[CJ2008]

Hi---My dad is a spender and my mom is a saver. They have plenty of money BUT they fight like cats and dogs over it, they hide money from each other, they have several checking accounts in play, it's a mess. They live in a CCRC so although they are fully independent now, their care including Alzheimer's/memory care or full time 24-hour skilled nursing is covered/included. They cant be kicked out for future lack of funds unless they caused it (gambling, shopping, etc). If you could get them into a CCRC, preferably a nonprofit, that would benefit you and your parents.

I know the anxiety you are feeling right now. Boy do I.

I wonder if you have siblings, could there be a financial intervention? You would want professional help available if the intervention succeeded, an accountant to go over their finances. A meeting with everyone when the accountant completes his review to develop a plan.

One piece of info, is the state your parents reside in a filial responsibility state? In my case, we all live in AZ now, which has no laws making children financially responsible for their parents. Many states who do have filial responsibility don't enforce it; some do. Google your state and "filial responsibility" to find out.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, the whole thing is hard.

You won't be responsible for their debt. That is between the creditor and them.

You want to ensure you don't destroy your own finances supporting them from this point until they pass on.

Forgive me for pointing this out, but they cannot live with you because once they are there, it's for good unless they go voluntarily. Unless you're on board with that.

Look up reverse mortgages. These are good if you didn't plan to inherit their house and your parents need additional income. Be careful if you go this route, pay a lawyer to review the contract before they sign.

I looked up CCRCs but they sound really expensive my parents definitely don't have the money to pay for that. Although I will still continue to look I want to know about all options right now.

I had come by filial laws in my research - my state didn't have them but DH's parents state does. Really, really scary. I read the story of a son who got sued for his mother's 93K nursing home bill. My goodness. Now does it mean that if DH's parents have huge credit card bills (I bet they do) he/us can be sued for those too?

As far as my parents' debts, even though I *know* that I won't inherit them (well, I found out through research) it's still so scary. And this is why it's also so very important to have someone we can trust to guide us with what to do (e.g., continuing to make the minimum versus paying it off, declaring bankruptcy, etc.) - because it's so easy to make costly mistakes if you're not an expert. That's why if I to this point just managed to hold my mother off long enough to DO anything with that $ then we can plan smartly and properly.

What do you mean they cannot live with me because once they're there, it's for good? You mean that if I eventually decide say, that they should live at x place - unless they agree to go I couldn't do anything about it? I mean hopefully it wouldn't ever come to that - ideally, they won't live with us (sorry I can hardly stand company for 3 days) and if they have to, hopefully I won't want to kick them out and have them refuse.

 

[CJ2008]

and to echo the above, once they are in your home, they are in your home. legally. you invited them in. that is what the law cares about. to get them out means having to do it lawfully which includes eviction just like is done for a rental property. this is regardless of whether or not they are paying you rent. the bottom line is you invited them.....and they cannot be forced to leave w/o proper papers served.

I certainly hope this is not a consideration!

I see. My goodness. Yeah. Just like I said to azstonie hopefully it wouldn't come to that scenario.

Is there any way to protect ourselves though, if they DO need to move in? (I realize this is where an elder law attorney can help, too...)

 

[marymm]

Frankly, the only way to protect yourself and your DH is to decide what you both are willing to do for your parents, and then hold that line.

You both also need to be very clear with your parents about this.

It is really not about confrontation, it is about transparency. It sounds like your parents have been conducting an under-the-radar campaign to make you responsible for their financial wellbeing, and so far you have not addressed any of cues they've put out over the last few years. Their expectation is that they can go to you for financial support and that you will provide that financial support. But they've never clearly asked for that support, and you've never really told them it is not available to them. So, think of it more as a conversation, as a way of making things clear to everybody, so they can make the best decisions for themselves knowing what their resources really are.

Yes, it will be hard. Yes, you will be conflicted. But, it is already hard, and you are already conflicted. If it were me, I'd make sure my DH and I were on the same page, then have the both of us speak with the parents about what we will contribute - in this case, it sounds like you are willing to contribute assistance with obtaining professional/financial advice for your parents.

If you put off this conversation, then you are doing the same thing as your parents - not facing reality because it is difficult, thereby making your own situation so much the worse.

Good luck.

 

[azstonie]

You are being manipulated and worked by the same two people who made you vulnerable to their influences in the first place. I can say this to you because I am wrestling with the very same situation. I'm not judging you negatively in any way, I'm empathetic.

It is not 'normal' or healthy behavior for them to have these expectations of you that they do. Its not normal or healthy parental behavior. Ask the posters here, they will confirm that.

I have the posters here who validate the good advice I've gotten in therapy and from an attorney. Talk to a good family law attorney about this situation.

If I let them, my parents and their insatiable will to control me and benefit from me will ruin my marriage. My husband has put his foot down.

I had to make a decision and I decided in favor of myself and my husband. Period.

You're going to have to inspire yourself to love your parents but not with $. NO GUILT. When they call you or show up, and they have their litany of issues or problems, all you have to say is: "That is a shame. Let me know how it works out, we're pulling for you and Dad/you and Mom!"

Then change the subject or end the visit or phone call.

If you and your DH gave your parents $100k today, they'd be back for more in 6 months or less. The problem isn't they don't have *enough* money, its that they don't want to live in the reality of the money they DO have. And yes, in their minds you SHOULD protect from that reality. Therein lies your incongruency. What they want versus what you know is wrong and is damaging to you and your husband.

BTW, I have no children either and I completely understand where your parents are with that, not only do my parents believe that I should throw money at them in expensive gifts and vacations but more upsetting to me, that I should spend all my time outside of work chasing down their problems and just amusing them in general when they are bored. I'm an appliance or a tool to them. Perhaps your parents view you as a bank giving out free money?

Suggestion: Write up a document 'giving' them the money you've loaned them thus far. Tell them it is the last 'gift' you will make them. Tell them you love them, its not about the money but its about your marriage and your employment and future retirement.

 

[azstonie]

And no, once they move in even if you and they agree its for a week or a month, after that YOU CANNOT GET THEM OUT. No city/county would evict them. You would have to allow them to stay until THEY move themselves out.

This is the law.

Its because 'society' does not want to solve the conundrum of where your parents should live. Once they are in your place, they are IN for good.

 

[movie zombie]

You are being manipulated and worked by the same two people who made you vulnerable to their influences in the first place. I can say this to you because I am wrestling with the very same situation. I'm not judging you negatively in any way, I'm empathetic.

It is not 'normal' or healthy behavior for them to have these expectations of you that they do. Its not normal or healthy parental behavior. Ask the posters here, they will confirm that.

I have the posters here who validate the good advice I've gotten in therapy and from an attorney. Talk to a good family law attorney about this situation.

If I let them, my parents and their insatiable will to control me and benefit from me will ruin my marriage. My husband has put his foot down.

I had to make a decision and I decided in favor of myself and my husband. Period.

You're going to have to inspire yourself to love your parents but not with $. NO GUILT. When they call you or show up, and they have their litany of issues or problems, all you have to say is: "That is a shame. Let me know how it works out, we're pulling for you and Dad/you and Mom!"

Then change the subject or end the visit or phone call.

If you and your DH gave your parents $100k today, they'd be back for more in 6 months or less. The problem isn't they don't have *enough* money, its that they don't want to live in the reality of the money they DO have. And yes, in their minds you SHOULD protect from that reality. Therein lies your incongruency. What they want versus what you know is wrong and is damaging to you and your husband.

BTW, I have no children either and I completely understand where your parents are with that, not only do my parents believe that I should throw money at them in expensive gifts and vacations but more upsetting to me, that I should spend all my time outside of work chasing down their problems and just amusing them in general when they are bored. I'm an appliance or a tool to them. Perhaps your parents view you as a bank giving out free money?

Suggestion: Write up a document 'giving' them the money you've loaned them thus far. Tell them it is the last 'gift' you will make them. Tell them you love them, its not about the money but its about your marriage and your employment and future retirement.

this whole post is worth re-reading.

the first bolded sentence is so very true. think about this long and hard: is this how you want to feel? only you are in control of your feelings and only you can take the steps to make sure you don't feel "guilt". my husband found this useful: http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406129091&sr=8-1&keywords=toxic+parents

and remember that if you put yourself at financial risk to help your parents now, you will be in financial risk when you reach their age.....

re the 2nd bolded sentence: this is brilliant! do it!

I don't think you owe them an explanation. a mere I've gifted you the "loan". it is the last loan/gift I am making. please do not even ask. if you do decide to ask me, I will hang up the phone and/or leave the room/house. if you want contact with me you'll respect my wishes. if you don't respect me about this i'll have to cut off all contact.

hard to do? yes. don't say you're going to do these things unless you mean what you say. otherwise, you're just letting your parents know they can continue to manipulate/guilt you and the actuality is that they have no reason to respect you at that point because you don't mean what you say.

not an easy situation. but it is our life, your marriage, and your retirement at stake. keep your own goals in focus at all times. this will help you to make the decisions that will support a good life, a good marriage, and a good retirement.