Future in-laws are acting up

[Harriet]

We are less than a month away from our wedding. It's an exciting, albeit scary, time.

Four years ago, when FBIL graduated from college, he crashed on our sofa while looking for a job. He stayed (and didn't lift a finger) for more than a month, before DF gave him a talking-to. He proceeded to do the same time, with the FILs' help, at his aunt's and second cousin! He still doesn't have a full-time job, because he's pursuing his dream career on a free-lance basis. Said dream career involves his coming to NY about 5 times over the course of this month. He called DF and asked if he could crash with us.

Because of FBIL's previous behaviour, we agreed on a no-guest policy until we actually have a guest room. We have 2 bedrooms, but the second is an office. So, DF said "no." FFIL got on the phone and argued with DF. Then, FMIL got on the phone and yelled at DF. I took over, hoping to calm them both. The first thing she said to me was "You are being selfish. I wasn't raised that way and neither was my son." I asked her whether she was implying that my parents raised me to be selfish. She did not attempt to deny that. DF finally hung up on her. Needless to say, he was upset and took it out on me.

The next morning, we received an e-mail from FFIL laying on the guilt -- our policy means that we're shutting them out of our lives, they cannot truly visit with us unless they stay with us. He also proceeded to talk about Asian filial piety (um, I was the one who grew up in an Asian family).

At a very wise lady's advice, I e-mailed FFIL back. I stated that we would re-think our policy, but that it's a bad time to do so right now. DF sent a similar e-mail. No answer.

We are scheduled to go to MI for FFIL's birthday in 2 week's time. I'm not sure I can take this much tension at this time. Any advice?

Oh, and FMIL had the temerity to add that they didn't ask to crash with us during our wedding!

 

[MonkeyPie]

Oh that just stinks :/ And it''s pretty ridiculous - does this mean that they are just ok with the fact that their other son just crashes anywhere he sees fit, and everyone should cater to him? I think you both did the right thing in not arguing and saying things you didn''t mean, and hopefully they will realize how silly they are being eventually.

 

[FrekeChild]

Ugh Harriet. I''m sorry.

They have some nerve to try to pull that guilt trip on you.

And right before your wedding too. And if that were my FMIL, she''d probably be uninvited...

 

[Dee*Jay]

Oh Harriet, I feel for you. We live in a four story townhouse with three bedrooms and a family room AND NO GUEST BED. ON PURPOSE. No family has ever stayed with us. No family ever will. Period. I said it once in plain English; I don't "discuss" it. That's the way it is.

That being said, my stance is probably a little harsh for a normal (translation: nicer) person, so maybe you could find some way to soften the blow. Perhaps pretend you've taken up a hobby that requires lots of big equipment in the second bedroom/office. I hear rug looming can be fun.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:41:42 PM
Author: MonkeyPie
Oh that just stinks :/ And it''s pretty ridiculous - does this mean that they are just ok with the fact that their other son just crashes anywhere he sees fit, and everyone should cater to him? I think you both did the right thing in not arguing and saying things you didn''t mean, and hopefully they will realize how silly they are being eventually.

I''m glad that I''m not the only person to think that way. Yup. I''m angry that FBIL called DF in front of the ILs. He had to have known that they would have stepped in to protect their precious wecious.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:41:51 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Ugh Harriet. I''m sorry.

They have some nerve to try to pull that guilt trip on you.

And right before your wedding too. And if that were my FMIL, she''d probably be uninvited...

It''s just as well we''re not having a reception. It''ll just be the two of us at City Hall.

 

[Bliss]

Oh I am so sorry! But on the upside, this stress you''re going through now is still less than having FBIL crashing at your home 5 times a month and countless more in the future. Setting a precedent is difficult initially, but over the long term tends to save a ton MORE stress down the road. It often saves relationships because the take-take-take situation undermines them in the end. Better to draw boundaries now clearly.

Good for DH for setting that and sticking to it! Imagine if he had said yes!

 

[diamondfan]

Harriet, this is an important fork in the road for you and your man. You need to stand firm. You are not a hotel, and if you do not have the space you are not obligated to put people up. AND ESPECIALLY NOT RIGHT BEFORE YOUR WEDDING. Period. You can nicely tell his family that you are SURE they will understand that due to extreme space limitations and the hectic aura surrounding getting married, you need to have your home to yourselves right now. Say, I am not sure what the future will hold, but as it stands now we have such little room and would likely not be good hosts. Thanks SO much for your understanding. We REALLY appreciate it.

Just keep repeating that, do not give them a chance to argue. Keep moving it back to how GREAT it is that they understand. Which they don't but at least you can run circles around them!

Be prepared to have this fight many times in life, EVEN if you get your point across now. People like that do not change, so you just have to bob and weave a lot. Be a moving target so they cannot land a punch...but dance so gracefully you do not look bad. If push comes to shove, get tough, but try to appear as if it is so not a big deal and so going to be your way that it is not worth getting upset about. Maybe modeling that will help calm them.

You can also put a tiny cot in the office and start a very noisy hobby in there, like welding or making hammered tin bowls

WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL YOUR RECEPTION PLANS?!

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:42:26 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
Oh Harriet, I feel for you. We live in a four story townhouse with three bedrooms and a family room AND NO GUEST BED. ON PURPOSE. No family has ever stayed with us. No family ever will. Period. I said it once in plain English; I don''t ''discuss'' it. That''s the way it is.

That being said, my stance is probably a little harsh for a normal (translation: nicer) person, so maybe you could find some way to soften the blow. Perhaps pretend you''ve taken up a hobby that requires lots of big equipment in the second bedroom/office. I hear rug looming can be fun.

Are we really being that selfish? Now, DF is softening a bit and agreeing that we should make sacrifices for family.

The office is really an office. I do billable work in it sometimes.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:48:27 PM
Author: Bliss
Oh I am so sorry! But on the upside, this stress you''re going through now is still less than having FBIL crashing at your home 5 times a month and countless more in the future. Setting a precedent is difficult initially, but over the long term tends to save a ton MORE stress down the road. It often saves relationships because the take-take-take situation undermines them in the end. Better to draw boundaries now clearly.

Good for DH for setting that and sticking to it! Imagine if he had said yes!

We thought that the ILs had learnt their lesson. Apparently not.

 

[lovewhitediamonds]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:49:02 PM
Author: diamondfan
Harriet, this is an important fork in the road for you and your man. You need to stand firm. You are not a hotel, and if you do not have the space you are not obligated to put people up. AND ESPECIALLY NOT RIGHT BEFORE YOUR WEDDING. Period. You can nicely tell his family that you are SURE they will understand that due to extreme space limitations and the hectic aura surrounding getting married, you need to have your home to yourselves right now. Say, I am not sure what the future will hold, but as it stands now we have such little room and would likely not be good hosts. Thanks SO much for your understanding. We REALLY appreciate it.

Just keep repeating that, do not give them a chance to argue. Keep moving it back to how GREAT it is that they understand. Which they don''t but at least you can run circles around them!

I agree with DF -- you are not a hotel.
My SIL demanded to stay over at our house when we got married (since she lived in Europe)... and it was a disaster. I still hold a grudge about it 10 years later. As DF said, it''s such a hectic time, you don''t need that added stress... Good Luck!

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:46:15 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 7/10/2008 10:41:42 PM

Author: MonkeyPie

Oh that just stinks :/ And it''s pretty ridiculous - does this mean that they are just ok with the fact that their other son just crashes anywhere he sees fit, and everyone should cater to him? I think you both did the right thing in not arguing and saying things you didn''t mean, and hopefully they will realize how silly they are being eventually.

I''m glad that I''m not the only person to think that way. Yup. I''m angry that FBIL called DF in front of the ILs. He had to have known that they would have stepped in to protect their precious wecious.

LOL maybe next time they try to pick this fight tell them to ask their "precious wecious" wtf he did LAST time he took up your space.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:49:02 PM
Author: diamondfan
Harriet, this is an important fork in the road for you and your man. You need to stand firm. You are not a hotel, and if you do not have the space you are not obligated to put people up. AND ESPECIALLY NOT RIGHT BEFORE YOUR WEDDING. Period. You can nicely tell his family that you are SURE they will understand that due to extreme space limitations and the hectic aura surrounding getting married, you need to have your home to yourselves right now. Say, I am not sure what the future will hold, but as it stands now we have such little room and would likely not be good hosts. Thanks SO much for your understanding. We REALLY appreciate it.

Just keep repeating that, do not give them a chance to argue. Keep moving it back to how GREAT it is that they understand. Which they don''t but at least you can run circles around them!

Be prepared to have this fight many times in life, EVEN if you get your point across now. People like that do not change, so you just have to bob and weave a lot. Be a moving target so they cannot land a punch...but dance so gracefully you do not look bad. If push comes to shove, get tough, but try to appear as if it is so not a big deal and so going to be your way that it is not worth getting upset about. Maybe modeling that will help calm them.

You can also put a tiny cot in the office and start a very noisy hobby in there, like welding or making hammered tin bowls

WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL YOUR RECEPTION PLANS?!

DF,

You were right. The boundary drawing never ends.

Our reception has been postponed. My mum is ill and can''t travel yet. Thankfully, as we found out yesterday, it''s nothing serious.

DF and I have done exactly as you have suggested. We haven''t heard from the FILs.

Good idea!

Question: Is this a cultural difference that I''m experiencing?

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 10:53:35 PM
Author: lovewhitediamonds

I agree with DF -- you are not a hotel.
My SIL demanded to stay over at our house when we got married (since she lived in Europe)... and it was a disaster. I still hold a grudge about it 10 years later. As DF said, it''s such a hectic time, you don''t need that added stress... Good Luck!

Thanks! Goodness knows I need it.

 

[Bliss]

They are wasting so much time ganging up on you when they should be talking to FBIL about why as a college graduate he is a professional couch surfer. I mean, at the very least he can help around the house or make himself useful. But to lie there and not lift a finger? And rotate couches at various relatives'' homes?

I think the least of their worries is your very reasonable stance.

STAY STRONG!

 

[iluvcarats]

Wow Harriet. I''m just sitting here shaking my head! I hate when people stay over. I like my privacey along with my space. You are not a hotel . You and your DF are not responsible for your FBIL, and they should be ashamed of themselves for putting the two of you in this position. That is CHUTZPAH! There are plenty of hotels in NYC, they are not all a fortune, and you will have plenty of "true" visiting time whether they sleep in your
apt. or not. I would tell them that now is just not a good time, and if they keep on persisting, I might just get rid of the couch!

They say that the apple doesn''t fall far from the tree; it is a good thing that your DF managed to roll far away!

Good luck to you

 

[Eva17]

wouldn't it be nice if their silence meant that they are beginning to realize,
you & df are on the same page, so they won't be
winning this one....

 

[WishfulThinking]

Oh Harriet, that is just awful.

I completely 100% support your decision, think you''re being reasonable, and feel your frustration. What a tough position to be in. I think perhaps you should have a talk with your FILs about your concerns with their son; his not working while he is with you, overstaying his welcome, etc? Maybe they are just unaware of his behavior? It sounds like they just think he is swell and can do no wrong.

I realize that bringing those issues up may cause a lot of tension that you think is unnecessary, and obviously you know the situation and your FILs better than any of us. You have a good head on your shoulders and are more than competent and mature. You will, without a doubt, handle this with grace.

Good luck!

PS: This one time a casual friend asked to crash in my 10''X5'' dorm room for a night and proceeded to stay for a week. Never.Again.

 

[diamondfan]

Harriet, they are enabling the precious wecious to do nothing. You do not need to contribute to this cycle. He is a grown man, he should be ashamed to act like a teen. You are not Hotel Harriet. Hubby needs to find his spinal column and tell his folks this. They can pay for their son to be in a hotel if he needs to be in NYC that often. It certainly does not need to be on you each and every time. I think it was Ben Franklin who said Fish and house guests begin to stink after three days...

Not sure what you mean by cultural. You are Asian and I think your hubby to be is not? RUDE is RUDE in any culture. Gag me. You are in for it for the long haul. I saw this at 24 with my in laws and I got very tough. Some MIGHT call it a tad bitchy but if you do not draw the boundary lines NOW you cannot easily go back and say, Oh, I meant this and not that etc. It CAN be done, but it is not that easy decades later. I have had many a knock down drag out with my mother in law. I am right back at her with her crap. If she is inappropriate I look her right in the eye and say, I would like to say I am just amazed that you did that but knowing you I am NOT. I do not enable or allow her to play with me. Her son may be more tolerant but the buck stops here.

 

[Harriet]

Precious Wecious has a rental in another state. Kudos to him for pursuing his dream. But, if he can''t make ends meet, he should be working a full-time job and free-lancing on his side. At any rate, he''s not our responsibility.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 11:12:37 PM
Author: iluvcarats
Wow Harriet. I''m just sitting here shaking my head! I hate when people stay over. I like my privacey along with my space. You are not a hotel . You and your DF are not responsible for your FBIL, and they should be ashamed of themselves for putting the two of you in this position. That is CHUTZPAH! There are plenty of hotels in NYC, they are not all a fortune, and you will have plenty of ''true'' visiting time whether they sleep in your
apt. or not. I would tell them that now is just not a good time, and if they keep on persisting, I might just get rid of the couch!

They say that the apple doesn''t fall far from the tree; it is a good thing that your DF managed to roll far away!

Good luck to you

I''m that way too.
DF used to see his parents through rose-tinted glasses. It took a long time and a lot of anguish to get rid of those darn things.

 

[diamondfan]

Date: 7/10/2008 11:52:34 PM
Author: Harriet
Precious Wecious has a rental in another state. Kudos to him for pursuing his dream. But, if he can''t make ends meet, he should be working a full-time job and free-lancing on his side. At any rate, he''s not our responsibility.

No, but he is going to be a bone of contention if things do not change.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 11:14:04 PM
Author: Eva17
wouldn't it be nice if their silence meant that they are beginning to realize,
you & df are on the same page, so they won't be
winning this one....

If only!

They will be looking for a place a couple of hours from here in the Fall. I'm terrified that they'll be here constantly during the process and consistently after. "Oh, we want to catch this show, blahdiblahdiblah."

 

[diamondfan]

My comment should not have been inside your post!

Not sure what I did but...you get my drift!

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 11:21:50 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
Oh Harriet, that is just awful.

I completely 100% support your decision, think you''re being reasonable, and feel your frustration. What a tough position to be in. I think perhaps you should have a talk with your FILs about your concerns with their son; his not working while he is with you, overstaying his welcome, etc? Maybe they are just unaware of his behavior? It sounds like they just think he is swell and can do no wrong.

I realize that bringing those issues up may cause a lot of tension that you think is unnecessary, and obviously you know the situation and your FILs better than any of us. You have a good head on your shoulders and are more than competent and mature. You will, without a doubt, handle this with grace.

Good luck!

PS: This one time a casual friend asked to crash in my 10''X5'' dorm room for a night and proceeded to stay for a week. Never.Again.

We''ve told them how he behaved while he was here. No response. They actually believe that his career is taking off! Thank you for your vote of confidence.

Some friend! I empathise.

 

[Linda W]

Harriet, you are right he is not our responsibility and should never be.

I am so sorry you are going through this, my friend. You certainly do not need all of this stress.

Caroline (Diamondfan) has said everything that I was going to say.

My inlaws (MIL and her husband, DH''s step-dad) are severe pains in my butt. They have done the same thing to us, I can''t even count. This was years ago and DH''s sisters weren''t even working, but we were supposed to let them live with us because we had 2 extra bedrooms. HA!! never happened. Anyway, they didn''t push us around and we stood our ground.

I feel so bad for you sweetie, I hope they don''t move closer to you either.

Just stand your ground. With people like this you have to.

I am glad your mother is going to be ok. That is wonderful news.

love,
Linda

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/10/2008 11:25:21 PM
Author: diamondfan
Harriet, they are enabling the precious wecious to do nothing. You do not need to contribute to this cycle. He is a grown man, he should be ashamed to act like a teen. You are not Hotel Harriet. Hubby needs to find his spinal column and tell his folks this. They can pay for their son to be in a hotel if he needs to be in NYC that often. It certainly does not need to be on you each and every time. I think it was Ben Franklin who said Fish and house guests begin to stink after three days...

Not sure what you mean by cultural. You are Asian and I think your hubby to be is not? RUDE is RUDE in any culture. Gag me. You are in for it for the long haul. I saw this at 24 with my in laws and I got very tough. Some MIGHT call it a tad bitchy but if you do not draw the boundary lines NOW you cannot easily go back and say, Oh, I meant this and not that etc. It CAN be done, but it is not that easy decades later. I have had many a knock down drag out with my mother in law. I am right back at her with her crap. If she is inappropriate I look her right in the eye and say, I would like to say I am just amazed that you did that but knowing you I am NOT. I do not enable or allow her to play with me. Her son may be more tolerant but the buck stops here.

Exactly!

Yup, DF is a Midwestern boy. Unfortunately, the ILs think that it''s ok for them to ask to stay with their friends whenever they want. But, NY is different -- space is tight. They were semi-retired for a year and I watched them travel the country "visiting" friends and family. It left a sour taste in my mouth. DF told me that "it''s an American thing." Is it? Sorry if I''m offending any of you.

Can we send them and your MIL together somewhere?

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/11/2008 12:04:05 AM
Author: diamondfan
My comment should not have been inside your post!

Not sure what I did but...you get my drift!

I do.

Unfortunately, the issue is greater than Mr. Precious Wecious. The ILs themselves think that they are entitled to stay here as they wish. I did tell FMIL "I''m sorry if you think we''re being selfish, but this is our house afterall."

 

[Linda W]

Date: 7/11/2008 12:16:32 AM
Author: Harriet

Date: 7/11/2008 12:04:05 AM

Author: diamondfan

My comment should not have been inside your post!


Not sure what I did but...you get my drift!

I do.


Unfortunately, the issue is greater than Mr. Precious Wecious. The ILs themselves think that they are entitled to stay here as they wish. I did tell FMIL ''I''m sorry if you think we''re being selfish, but this is our house afterall.''

OMG, Harriet. Sounds like my ILS. We do not like anyone staying with us. Except for my mother, but she is homebound now. The lady never caused any trouble here, nor did my dad.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 7/11/2008 12:12:39 AM
Author: Linda W
Harriet, you are right he is not our responsibility and should never be.

I am so sorry you are going through this, my friend. You certainly do not need all of this stress.

Caroline (Diamondfan) has said everything that I was going to say.

My inlaws (MIL and her husband, DH's step-dad) are severe pains in my butt. They have done the same thing to us, I can't even count. This was years ago and DH's sisters weren't even working, but we were supposed to let them live with us because we had 2 extra bedrooms. HA!! never happened. Anyway, they didn't push us around and we stood our ground.

I feel so bad for you sweetie, I hope they don't move closer to you either.

Just stand your ground. With people like this you have to.

I am glad your mother is going to be ok. That is wonderful news.

love,
Linda

Linda dearest,

Thank you very much for your concern over my mum.

What should I do about the upcoming trip to MI to celebrate FFIL's birthday? If I go, it'll be awkward and I'll be stressed out. If I don't, all hell will break loose and I'll be stressed out. And the trip is less than 2 weeks before our wedding!

I'm sorry you went through the same thing.

They are planning to move within 1-2 hours of the city!