shape
carat
color
clarity

Friends with Horrendous Problems - A Life Stage?

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Just stopping by as I have a few minutes while my patient showers. I will be more free after Thursday when my guest goes home. Missy, I know I haven't replied to you on my other thread and I'm sorry - I'm just so busy right now, tired from night duties too. Thank you for your advice, though.

Have you ever hit a life stage where many of your closest friends start having horrendous problems? I mean, as in their lives - which previously seemed completely manageable - turn into total train wrecks?

As you might know, I've had my own challenges over the past few years involving a lot of family illnesses, caregiving, resultant career issues, etc. Things are actually getting easier for me now but it's hard to relax and enjoy it because, suddenly, these friends' lives seem to have fallen apart, and of course they love to lay it all on my shoulders.

When I say problems, I'm talking really serious stuff - cancer, multiple bereavements, divorce, domestic violence. One friend, age 49, had cancer three years ago and in the last two years her mother, father, and sister have all died. Her parents were 77 and 81, but her sister was only 43. She lost all three of them in a two-year period, and obviously has worries about her own cancer returning because her sister died young of the same cancer.

Another friend, aged 50, lost her father, then her husband lost his father, and now her husband has had an affair and they are probably getting divorced. All within a year. And she loves to tell me how she has no money, too.

A third friend, 38, her husband is verbally and physically abusive but she feels trapped with a huge mortgage and two small kids. You know - your average nightmare when you're young about how your life might turn out. This friend is also my cousin and I had a recent thread on it.

I honestly feel I'm running out of sympathy from tragic-event overload. My cousin knew full well what she was getting into with that horrible man but married him and had his children anyway. The friend who's getting divorced, she and her husband have had professional salaries for twenty-five years and no kids, and yet they still rent, and she is always going on about how she doesn't have a penny to her name. That's despite a joint income which must be at least $160k and probably pushing $200k. The friend with cancer and the multiple bereavements - well, none of that is her fault and she's probably the least depressing of the three, but she is definitely vulnerable, cries a lot when I see her, etc.

I have had some work success recently (before this intense bout of caregiving, which will get easier). Also, some of the worst events of the last few years have started to recede in my mind. I've actually started feeling lighter and happier. However, my friends' problems threaten to ruin it, because they're so depressing, and even if I manage to put their problems aside, it leaves me with three less people to have fun with!

Any advice on how to handle this life stage? I'm thinking it's a case of mind over matter and I'll just have to close a mental door on their troubles, and it's either that or suffer alongside them when I've suffered enough of my own troubles in the last few years. For example, I looked after a mentally ill family member in my home for six and a half years 2007 - 2013 (I was still working outside the home) and that really was horrendous. I wouldn't have done it had I known what it would be like. He stabilized but it took six and a half years. He doesn't live with me any longer as he's all better now. Then some family members died and became ill, and - well anyway, things are better now, with the deaths further in the past, and a new life beckons, but now everyone around me has fallen apart! I guess I'll just have to insulate myself from their troubles and find some happier people to hang out with, but WWYD? (What would you do?)

By the way, I have never, ever laid my worst times on others' shoulders the way these three do to me. During my worst times, I have curled up at home and said very little to friends. That's because it's been glaringly obvious to me that friends are not equipped to handle such serious things. I do believe that problems of this magnitude are a job for family members and mental health professionals. It's not that I'm unsympathetic to their plights, but I feel it's completely unfair to expect a friend to handle problems like this. It probably sounds awful, but I find the lives of these three so depressing that I probably wouldn't mind not seeing much of them from now on. Leaves me with a bit of a friend-gap, though.

When I say "laying it on my shoulders" I mean that I'll be having a perfectly nice day and then I'll get an utterly desperate text message from one saying she has no money and nowhere to go and she's so terrified, etc. This is the one with the large joint income of 25 years. Example: I was having a fantastic day last week because I at last had some work success. I was so happy. Then I got this depressing text message from her all about her marriage breaking up and that she was terrified, etc. Good days have been thin on the ground for me, for quite some time, and she managed to ruin that one with a series of desperate text messages. That's how it happens. The other two sent me desperate emails, one when she knew full well I was in Puerto Rico for a mere three days, attempting to have some fun for a change.

How would you handle all these desperate messages? Of course, I don't always respond, but just reading them is enough to bring me down.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,766
I think the older we get the more bad things we have to deal with as we age, people around us get sick they get divorced they die and so on. So it is undoubtedly a life stage, a process. If you find your friends are all takers and are not good at listening or giving at least emotional support back then maybe it is time to make some new friends as well.
 

EvangelineG

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
560
Jambalaya|1437397088|3905135 said:
Any advice on how to handle this life stage? I'm thinking it's a case of mind over matter and I'll just have to close a mental door on their troubles, and it's either that or suffer alongside them when I've suffered enough of my own troubles in the last few years.

Bolded is the part in your own thinking that may be tripping you up. You are under no obligation to suffer when your friends are suffering. It sounds like you have been through a lot and life is finally stabilizing for you, and you get to enjoy that. If I was your friend I would want you to enjoy that, no matter what I was going through, and if I trusted you enough to confide in you and ask for support when I was troubled, I would also be trusting you to put the boundaries in place that you needed while being there for me only in ways that were ok and healthy for you. Saying no is ok. Saying yes and then resenting the friend isn't good for either of you.

For example- I would not have read any of my friends' emails while on vacation for three days. I simply would have ignored them and taken my time to enjoy myself. Then I get to choose when to respond, how to respond. and how much mental energy to spend on my friend's problems after I respond.

It sounds like you are suffering from a bit of caregiver burnout, which is something I can totally relate to. The only cure is strong, healthy boundaries. These problems are your friends' and not yours. You can still be a kind, empathetic person, and a good friend, while enjoying your own life and not getting mired in troubles that don't belong to you.

And yes, I do think it is a life stage thing. Although troubles can come at any age, everything does seem to really intensify at mid-life...
 

Tacori E-ring

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
20,041
I had a professor in Grad school say, "you didn't break them, you can't fix them." Being in the helping profession, I have made this my motto at work and at home. I work with people of all different ages. Youngest was 17, oldest in their 70s and life does not just pick on the old. Every age group is plagued with their own set of problems. I think you have gotten some really good advice so far. Learning how to be a friend without judging or saving is really important. People get to make their own decisions even if they are harmful or you don't agree with them. You need to take care of yourself because Compassion Fatigue is real. I find the Serenity Prayer very useful in reminding me what I can change (me) and what I cannot change (everything else).
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Good advice here. Thanks everyone. Always in the past I've been able to help friends without it affecting me, but........there is one friend who is a real problem, and I think I'm going to have to accept that we can't be friends anymore and pull away for good, because she affects me so badly.

The two I mentioned above, they don't go on about their problems so much. The one with the domestic violence, I don't even hear from her that much. And the friend who had cancer and three bereavements seems better all the time. She gets treatment at the cancer center and it seems to be working.

But, oh my God, the third friend, who is 50, lost her second parent and is getting divorced....I never knew her that well before this year, only from a distance and always liked her. Always wanted to get to know her better. Well, be careful what you wish for.

She was in a total state over a particular weekend when I saw her 2-3 months ago. It was dreadful. She made me extremely depressed because I hadn't yet realized what her deal was and I made the mistake of seeing a lot of her that weekend. I didn't see her after that but she'd send me these desperate texts on occasion. Then, she gave me to understand that she was feeling much better. Over the phone, she sounded like her old self. So I agree to meet her for dinner on Sunday night. Boy, was that a big mistake. Despite many comforting words and practical advice from me over the phone for the last couple of months, she was worse than ever. She must have burst into tears ten times at the restaurant, which was really embarrassing. I mean, if you're that upset then you shouldn't be out in public. And when I was genuinely upset to that extent in my own life, I stayed home because I didn't want to see anybody. Then unfortunately I bumped into her at lunchtime in town yesterday. We only spent a short together, but then she sent me a long text last night, which I've ignored.

The problem? She is quite simply the most miserable, depressing, bottomless pit of despair I've ever encountered. She has counseling, she has strong antidepressants, she's doing a trauma course for bad things that happened in her past....and none of it makes one iota of difference. Even her own sister doesn't want to see her. The friend was supposed to be going to visit her, but the sister canceled saying she couldn't take it. I'm guessing this friend gets on the phone to her sister and depresses the hell out of her, too. The sister has her own problems, as have I had, but this friend just doesn't care about anyone else's problems - all she wants to do is suck the lifeblood out of everyone else. To hear her tell it, she has no friends, no money, she's all alone, etc etc. I find her so depressing because she has convinced me that her life is completely hopeless. And it's entirely the result of her own bad choices.

So after seeing her the past two days, I have trouble sleeping because she upsets me so much. How do I gradually pull away from her? It crossed my mind to tell her outright that I can't see her anymore because she upsets me too much, but since she is in such a state, I don't want to drive her to do anything stupid. But either way I think I just can't be friends with her anymore because after I see her, it takes me days to feel better. No other friend has ever made me feel like this - as I said, she is just a yawning black hole of despair and there is nothing that anyone can say or do that makes a difference. I guess it's just mind over matter - I'll have to just try to put her out of my mind, be clear that she is not my problem, and pull away from her. Is that what you'd do? She's made me feel pretty bad this morning so I could use some help.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
I want to add, that I realized at a deeper level how bad this friend's behavior is, when I reflected that I have known three terminally ill people who were a hundred times more cheerful than this friend.

One person in particular, who was diagnosed terminally and then died 18 months later - well before her time, so she would never see her grandchildren grow up - her grace in that period of her life was wonderful. She remained cheerful, outwardly happy, did her best to live as normal a life for as long as possible, and did not make life for those around her unbearable or impossible. She was the picture of grace and forbearance.

Contrast that with my friend's endless, bottomless thrashing and wailing - the person who is going through no more than millions of people. Her dad died - well, he was 87 and the friend is 50. She is getting divorced. Millions of people get divorced and rebuild their lives.

I also know two other people who are terminally ill, and none are in the state that the friend above is in.

I really think it's hard to be friends with them when you lose all respect for them. Even if this friend were miraculously to get better, I don't think I'd ever feel the same way about her again. Just looking for advice on how to gracefully extricate myself.
 

acebruin

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
719
Some people are just toxic. There's nothing worse than a joy sucker! I would cut my ties with that toxic friend of yours if I were you...
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Thanks, Acebruin. Yeah, I've decided to forgo this friendship and accept that it also means losing some support of my own. She is supportive if I have troubles, you see, but as my therapist pointed out, there's a heavy price to pay for that support. I'd rather accept the loss of that support and make healthier friends.

Anyway, I just went out for a walk in the woods near me, and the solution came to me! I thought of some excellent words which I am going to use with this friend, and also with the friend who has the domestic violence situation. Next time I get desperate messages from them (because it's mainly by text/email) I'm going to say:

"As ever, I'm sorry for your troubles, as you know. However, I am not able or equipped to help you any further. I look forward to hearing from you when your life improves."

That might sound harsh, but bear in mind that I'll send that message to people I have tried and tried and tried to help, over and over and over, and nothing I say makes any difference. There's a built-in stopper in that sentence, too, because the two people I'll need it for will never improve their lives, due to their continued bad choices - choices that they have made for the last ten years in one case and the last twenty years in the other case. That's why I don't believe there's much hope for either of them.

Regarding the friend I've discussed in my last couple of messages, I have been very kind to her for a long time now, a year in fact, and she is only worse, not better. I only saw her yesterday, so I am just going to lay low for a while. I know that eventually she will send me another desperate message, and at that point I'll respond as above.

In fact, I am going to send that message to anybody who tries to lay on my shoulders problems that belong to the professionals.

ETA: She texted me last night, which I have ignored, and again just now asking if I'm OK. I'm going to ignore that too. Jesus, I saw her Sunday and Monday and today is Tuesday. Leave me alone!
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
OK, I think it's better to send her that message now, when there is no crisis, than next time she sends me a desperate message. Also perhaps kinder than just ignoring her.

I texted her back. I told her that I sympathized with her troubles but that I'm trying to recover from everything I've been through in the last couple of years. I said that I'm not able or equipped to help her any further. I said that I need a six-month break, but that I look forward to hearing from her after she has moved out from living with her husband and her life has improved. I wished her the best of luck with everything. Then I turned my phone off.

She was very popular at work and she is fifty years old. I refuse to believe that she simply must dump everything on my shoulders. Of course, she's not going to improve her life, and by the time six months has passed I expect we'll both have moved on anyway.

I'm past caring. I'm done.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
I love the way that some people try to make you believe that you are their only confidant, their only friend, and therefore you must support them or they'll fall to pieces. Something that's made me feel OK about ending this friendship is that I refuse to believe it. This person is fifty years old and was one of the most popular people in the office when we worked together. She has at least three other very close friends that I know of, plus a good relationship with her sister, and two teenage nephews aged 14 and 18 who ring her up to talk. I barely knew her at all before this past year.

I guess trying to make your friend believe that you will fall apart if you can't use her as an emotional punchbag is a way that unhealthy people keep you in a relationship with them. Well, I'm not falling for it.

In addition to turning my phone off, I've also blocked her email address. You know, she has imposed on me so much that I don't even feel bad about it. She didn't care that I have had my own problems, she didn't care that I had a difficult houseguest, she didn't care when I had a work deadline. Nothing mattered except her bottomless pit of misery.
 

anne_h

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
1,046
Based on what you have described here, I might suspect people interact with you in the ways you describe because you let them. By that I mean, they get positive reinforcement in that you continue to listen to them, or do whatever it is that they keep coming back for.

Assuming this is the case, I think it is great you are setting clear boundaries now.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Anne
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Thank you, Anne. :wavey:

I think there might be some truth in what you say. However, I'm quite good at letting negative friends go. I've let thirteen friends go in the last decade or so, all for good reasons. Mostly it was because the friendships changed over time. But those friends were at least mentally/emotionally normal, and therefore we just gracefully drifted apart. There was no need for drama. I'm very much of the mind that drama is for teenagers and mostly, when a friendship has run its course, people are adult enough just to let things slide.

This, today, was something different. I have never met someone who is such a black hole of soul-sucking despair in my life. She has treated my kindness appallingly. She just took, and took, and took, and took. Actually I think she wanted to push me into a place where I ended the friendship, because then it will reinforce her belief that she's all alone etc etc. Anyway, I'll know next time I meet someone like that! I think she was quite extreme, though.

The one with the domestic violence, again it's slightly different because she is my cousin and we grew up together in a close family. However, I cannot help her with her current life situation. With the last round I told her exactly what I thought, in detail, and I'm not saying it again. Next time I get an SOS from her I'm going to tell her that she already knows what I think, that she needs to call in the professionals - lawyers, social workers, therapists - and that I am not equipped to help her further.

And I am going to make an effort to develop closer friendships with the happy, positive people that I know. And also to meet more of those people. :))
 

Sky56

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,038
It may sound trite but it is not so much what life throws at you but how you react to it.

My mother had a long fight with cancer and then died from it, but she behaved with such grace and dignity that she inspired everyone around her. Sure, she felt sad and cheated, but she never complained and took each day the best she could and with grace.

I've dropped friends - I felt always down and depressed after seeing them - all the complaints and negativity. I did it out of self-protection...and yes, one of them had cancer, too (and complained mostly about other things.)
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
6,731
I think you did the right thing!

You know the expression "misery loves company"? That applies here. People who are sad and miserable want (subconsciously) others to be sad and miserable so that their feelings are validated. They can't allow you to be happy or they feel like the odd one out, emotionally.

Also it sounds like your friends are narcissists or at least self-centered. They think only of themselves. Why bother with these people?

My DH has a simple test that applies to these kinds of things; would they do that (applies to anything) for you? If not, WHY are you doing it for them?

I recently broke up with a friend that I've known since I was 12 because she just became intolerable. This doesn't directly relate to your issues, but is just an example of choosing to let go. She would text and email telling me that she was going to call. For five years she texted, on multiple occasions, that she would call Sunday around 1 or Saturday at 4 or whatever. FIVE years. Do you know how many times she called me? Zero. Not ONCE in that 5 years did she call at any of the times she said, or even spontaneously. The time would just pass, I wouldn't hear anything, then a couple of months would go by and she'd do it again. I have no idea what the HECK that was about. Did she want to control me and make me sit by the phone? I did that about 3 times, then I just ignored the whole thing, went about my business. Checked caller id later and she had never called. I just texted her one day and told her to lose my number.

When the emotional cost-benefit analysis gets too lop-sided, sometimes you just gotta let people go.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Thanks, Ilander and Sky56! This morning I certainly don't regret ending the friendship. Like you, Sky, I felt bad after seeing this friend, always. More than bad - she made me feel more depressed than I've ever felt in my life, including after my sister died.

Ilander, I think you're right about these people wanting you to be as miserable as they are. I like your DH's test.

This morning, I feel pretty shaken up by the whole thing, to be honest. I have never, ever had to tell someone to beat it before. With most normal people, there's a gradual drift and everyone gets the message. Not this one. My message must have worked boundaries-wise though, because I have not had a word in response. No apology for putting me through so much, of course.

I have never had to ask someone to scram before, ever. I have never had someone take such full and joyful advantage of my good nature to the extent where I just tell them outright to go away. As I said above, I just feel a bit shaken by the whole unpleasant episode this morning, although I do not regret the choice at all.
 

House Cat

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,565
Jambalaya,

I am feeling a bit confused by this entire thread. I understand there is a legitimate problem and that you are hurting and angry, but I am not sure I am gathering the true reason. Friends share their problems. Friendships aren't always lighthearted. Friends understand when other friends are going through rough times. Is it your expectation that your friendships be on the surface, strictly with small talk? Do you want friendships with near perfect people who only make good decisions for their lives? What is your expectation for your future friendships?

To be quite honest, I see that you are incredibly angry due to your own inability to set boundaries. These people are just being their flawed, imperfect, human selves. Making big mistakes is all about the growth process, even making the SAME mistakes over and over is part of growth. This process requires compassion for friends AND for the self. It is never expected for you to shoulder their burdens. If you do this, that is your own choice. If you stress about their problems, that is you, choosing to do so.

Boundaries require practice. At first, we feel that it is everyone else's fault for being such boundary crossing jerks. In time, we figure out that it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves. Boundary setting isn't about making a declaration of how we expect others to behave...that is actually aggressive. Boundary setting is all about how we expect ourselves to behave. You make no declaration at all. You just do what you need to do in order to stay emotionally and physically safe. You learn that people need very little explanation about most things and you learn that you don't WANT many explanations either! It becomes very freeing.

When you become used to living with good boundaries, you will never settle for less. You will also push out those who make you feel uncomfortable simply by setting boundaries because if they are those jerk boundary crossers, they just fade away, no declaration needed.

There is a book called Boundaries, by Henry Cloud, that people love.

Al-Anon is fantastic for learning about boundaries if you have any addicts in your life, past or present.

There is a ton of info on the net..look up mental and emotional boundaries.

And finally, since you said you have a therapist...I'm sure you two are working on this.
 

VRBeauty

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
10,928
Jambalaya - I was thinking along the same lines as House Cat, but hadn't found a way to articulate it well. And I still haven't. In all likelihood the "life stage" you're encountering is not so much a question of who enters your life and what's happening to them, as it is of how you react to those people and their circumstances. I'd second her suggestion to give Al-Anon a try. Try a few meetings; nobody will quiz you on whether you're "qualified" to be in the meetings, and you'll know pretty quickly if you might benefit from being there.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Hi, I have written a lot so perhaps you both missed the part where I said that I had been extremely kind to her for a full year and she is worse than ever, and cared nothing about what I was going through but continued to lay her burdens on my shoulders no matter what I said or did, and ended up depressing me utterly. I am experienced in friendship and this is not normal. When I saw her, there was not one single fun moment, just tears and tears and more tears, for months. I tried everything to help her. I have done myself a huge favor by freeing myself from someone who is a bottomless black hole of misery which swallows extreme patience and kindness as if it's nothing and just needs more and more and more, and no matter how much you pour in, it's never enough. Perhaps you had to be there, or perhaps you have never experienced a person like this. Thank you for the input. :wavey:
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
6,731
I see it like this; OP wanted to be nice, which is the right way to act. Treat others as you would like to be treated. Sympathy for your fellow man. Etcetera. Not sure she should be chastised for being a nice person. :confused:

The truth is that some people will just take, and take, and take. They have a certain radar that leads them to kind, nice people (givers) and they start to suck the life out of them. Being a nice person, OP, gave the takers the benefit of a doubt. Which you do.

After some time, she realized the relationships were a one way street, and decided to terminate it. Being a nice person, she felt a bit of guilt. Which is normal. Especially for nice people.

i, personally, have solved all these problems in my life by not being a nice person. :bigsmile:
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Thank you, ilander. This person would not have been happy until we were both in the psychiatric ward alongside each other. I have never, ever felt so bad as I did after being with her. I tried and tried and tried to help her, and nothing worked - nothing. Her therapy doesn't work, her antidepressants don't work, her trauma course doesn't work. She just gets worse and worse and worse. Oddly enough though, she is still able to be functional and go to work. Either she's not as bad as she makes out or if she is, then she needs to check herself into a facility. Either way, I'm done, and frankly if I never see her again it'll be too soon. I was honest with her and told her that I was not able or equipped to help her any further. She knew full well I was trying to recover from the traumatic times of the last two years in my life and she just could not have cared less. Interestingly, she was meant to be going to visit her sister this month and the sister has told her not to come because she can't bear it either.

It isn't that I feel guilty, exactly - clearly this friend was going to take and take - but I just feel weird. It's unpleasant to have to end a friendship, and I've never had to do that before. In fact, the whole episode has been deeply unpleasant - the getting to know her better, trying to help her, and her turning out to be an absolute nightmare. Literally - she has given me nightmares the last two nights. I started to feel anxiety when she wouldn't stop texting me. I'm sorry if anyone feel I've been unsympathetic, but that's fine. I can save myself and have a chance of some peace and happiness in my life and be unsympathetic, or I can carry on being friends with a yawning black hole of despair. I know which I'd choose! (And have done so.)

But it's hard to describe - it just feels weird. Maybe because it's a new behavior. I have never, ever had to do that before, and it's not pleasant. I have a work deadline and I'm having trouble concentrating because the whole episode has been so upsetting. Not the ending it, the whole slo-mo car crash of a relationship.
 

blackprophet

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
531
iLander|1438187077|3908683 said:
I see it like this; OP wanted to be nice, which is the right way to act. Treat others as you would like to be treated. Sympathy for your fellow man. Etcetera. Not sure she should be chastised for being a nice person. :confused:

The truth is that some people will just take, and take, and take. They have a certain radar that leads them to kind, nice people (givers) and they start to suck the life out of them. Being a nice person, OP, gave the takers the benefit of a doubt. Which you do.

After some time, she realized the relationships were a one way street, and decided to terminate it. Being a nice person, she felt a bit of guilt. Which is normal. Especially for nice people.

i, personally, have solved all these problems in my life by not being a nice person. :bigsmile:

I don't think many would disagree with your sentiment.
She is not being chastised for being a nice person.

Its jut being pointed out, and I agree with the sentiment, that she should accept responsibility for her actions.

For me Jambalaya, your most telling sentence is this: "Hi, I have written a lot so perhaps you both missed the part where I said that I had been extremely kind to her for a full year and she is worse than ever, and cared nothing about what I was going through but continued to lay her burdens on my shoulders no matter what I said or did, and ended up depressing me utterly"

She cared nothing for your feelings and continued to lay her burdens on your shoulders no matter what you said or did. That is her fault, and she needs to take responsibility for that.

You spent a year trying to help her, you got mad when she didn't get better, and it ended up depressing you utterly. This is a similar sentiment you expressed in the other thread about your cousin. That is your responsibility, your pattern. House Cat, VRBeauty, Tacori E-Ring, and EvangelineG all said basically the same thing, you need to set boundaries.

I would suggest exploring these two cases (and others) to see the patterns and markers that lead to the point of frustration and anger, so you can see them coming better in the future, and you can disengage earlier. This isn't about not being nice. It is about knowing yourself, what upsets you, your own patterns, and how you act towards people, to better predict when things are going down this particular road. Setting boundaries are easier when you know exactly what it takes to upset you.

I find it amazing how much less upset I am when I know something will upset me before it happens
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
You make good point, blackprophet. I'll certainly be on the lookout for this sort of thing in future, and I'm not very experienced with people who - well, it's not that they have these problems, it's that they seem to lack any sort of ability to solve them, for years on end, so instead they just put it on others.

But this person with whom I ended the friendship yesterday was something else. As I said, with the cousin, I rarely hear from her about the abuse except an SOS once a year, each summer. Now that I know she keeps choosing to stay, I will not get so involved on that issue. With her, we do talk about other things too, usually.

And the third person, whose parents and sister have all died in the last 18 months and who had cancer 18 months before that - none of it is of her own making and she took professional help at the cancer center, and she is getting there. I had breakfast with her this morning and we always have a nice time and a laugh despite the challenges she has faced. We discuss more serious things too, but it's not the sole focus of our conversations for months on end. She loves jewelry too!

We only have a limited time for friendships among our busy lives, and I'm trying to carve out happy, healthy friendships with positive people.
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
1,779
I understand the different viewpoints.

Honestly, in the last six months I cannot thank my friends enough that they were there for me. A couple of true friends but really it greatly mattered helped but their help is always reciprocated. I do things for them, they do things for me and we are there for each other in times of crisis. People are different, some share and some do not, some like to be shared with and some do not; my friends and me we all share with each other but it never depresses me, it is always constructive I feel and it never makes me feel bad that I help.

That said and here is what the key is; for one how do they make you feel. When my friends share with me I can listen to them for countless hours and it does not depress me but makes me brainstorm and feel good that I helped.

You will know when someone is not one that should be your friend when they drag you down, this is totally different; it is like a negative energy. I have known people like this too and I know I should not have them in my life. Friends will not drag you down. If one does then it is a selfish person, perhaps it is a bad match, perhaps a person that needs professional help first and foremost. I have had someone like that recently who did not listen after my trying to convince her to get help. I am a friend, I love talking about their problems and we can have a good time regardless but those that have panic disease or something serious I cannot help as I am not a medical professional.

This is the other point that if someone talks nonstop about the same issue, it becomes very tiring after a while. I have done this for my cousin but after ten times talking and convincing and him not listening, I have sort of given up. I would like him to be ok but if he does not want to be ok and change something in himself, I cannot help him.

BTW; even in my darkest hours I never wanted my friends to ever feel badly, not be happy and suffer with me, I was happy for them if they were happy. I would not be a true friend otherwise.
 

Sky56

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,038
It's a matter of patterns of behavior. If a person is always take, take, take and complains, you feel drained and sad after every interaction.

I like it when friends I have healthy relationships with tell me their problems and share about their hard times with me. It gives chances for intimacy, sharing, helping, etc and deepens the friendship too. It is also interesting to listen to their challenges and oftentimes, I've experienced similar.

I think what the OP is talking about is what happens when a friendship is toxic. (one-sided, negative, hurtful)
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Sunstorm and Sky are right. I'm not talking about a close female friendship where problems and successes are equally shared and discussed, and where that results in a healthy type of closeness. I'm talking about a toxic friendship. I've had friendships before which turned toxic, or threatened to, or I've begun to get to know someone and realized quite quickly that they were toxic. In those cases, there has been a graceful drifting apart. But I didn't see this one coming because I had known her at a distance for some years through work, and she'd always seemed so together. And dialing it back wasn't an option - I tried that and she wouldn't leave me alone. If I ignored her texts she'd just text again - like, the next day. I don't regret it at all, I just feel weird because I've never had to do that before. Previous negative people in my life have gotten the hint without there having to be a confrontation.
 

blackprophet

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
531
Jambalaya|1438189216|3908707 said:
You make good point, blackprophet. I'll certainly be on the lookout for this sort of thing in future, and I'm not very experienced with people who - well, it's not that they have these problems, it's that they seem to lack any sort of ability to solve them, for years on end, so instead they just put it on others.

But this person with whom I ended the friendship yesterday was something else. As I said, with the cousin, I rarely hear from her about the abuse except an SOS once a year, each summer. Now that I know she keeps choosing to stay, I will not get so involved on that issue. With her, we do talk about other things too, usually.

And the third person, whose parents and sister have all died in the last 18 months and who had cancer 18 months before that - none of it is of her own making and she took professional help at the cancer center, and she is getting there. I had breakfast with her this morning and we always have a nice time and a laugh despite the challenges she has faced. We discuss more serious things too, but it's not the sole focus of our conversations for months on end. She loves jewelry too!

We only have a limited time for friendships among our busy lives, and I'm trying to carve out happy, healthy friendships with positive people.

I apologize for being blunt but I think you missed my point.

Your whole post I quoted above is about the other women. I'm saying don't lookout look in

People like this are all around. You do have experience with people like this. You've known your cousin for a long time.

You should reflect on yourself and examine what you can do to to prevent these people from getting a hold in your life. Why did it take a year and a thread for you to cut this person out? What gave you the continual hope that these people will get better. What exactly is it that upsets you and depresses you (most specific than "shes not getting better"). You said above that you wanted to get to know toxic lady? Why? What attracted you to her?

I'm not blaming you for the situation or what happened. But a friendship or relationship is a two way street. Understanding your role in it, will go a long way towards preventing it from happening to you again. Doesn't seem to me like you have really examined it from that angle. Your cousin and toxic lady are two different people in two very different situations, but you ended up feeling the same and taking the same actions in the end. The common denominator is you. You can't control these people or their lives, but you can control your own. Seems that's the best place to direct your energy.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,718
Thanks again, bp. I'll self-examine another time. Right now I'm completely exhausted from taking care of my patient in the last two weeks and dealing with this toxic friend. It's been very trying on top of everything else and I guess I just wanted a bit of comfort right now since what I had to do yesterday was so unpleasant. Anyway, I guess my project won't do itself. :wavey:
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top