Financial planner for elderly parents

[CJ2008]

I've read this with interest, having been through it.
How old are your parents, if I may ask?

Mid 70s Jimmianne.

Why?

Are you seeing a different perspective? Having been through it yourself I'd love to hear any thoughts you can offer.

More bluntness, I'm afraid.

I asked because 70's seems awfully young to be taking over their finances. I agree they should talk to someone but unless you have power of attorney it's really up to them. Unless they owe you money - you do need to get that back - they are adults and it's their life.
I don't think they are toxic - I think you are paying too much attention to what they are doing.

Actually, 70s is not that young and sometimes cr*p happens. If you knew for sure that your parents had their finances all worked out and were not going to involve you then I agree to stay out of it.

But if they are coming to you for help or know they will in the future, I see the need to be proactive.

My mom protected her finances like some seniors protect their car keys. She wanted to handle it all herself and resented questions about it. Then one day at age 78 she layed down for a nap. When she woke up she could barely speak and by the grace of G-d was able to call me and make some kind of sound into the phone. She had suffered a stroke. It was in her left frontal lobe, which affected speech. Dementia soon followed.

My brother worked long hours and traveled a lot on business, so it fell to me. The medical bills were mounting, other bills need to be paid and I did not have a clue to where she kept the checkbook, what her savings were like in case she needed long term care or what kind of medical coverage she had.

Getting a power of attorney was hard because it was difficult to prove she was of enough sound mind and body to sign off on it. It became a nightmare tring to sort things out.

So, imo, it is not to early for the talk. And you have to be honest with mom or dad that if they expect you to get involved down the road, then they have to allow you the ability to act in their best interest and yours.

Yes, Ruby, I am trying to look ahead. To plan ahead while things are still fairly calm and well.

I don't want to add to the stress not having a clue where things are kept, or not understanding what accounts they have. I want to be prepared.

I want to think about long-term care now. To consider it. That may be a very worthwhile investment for all our peace of mind. But I don't know for sure. That's why I want to talk to someone who's knowledgeable and trustworthy to guide us through all the different scenarios and options.

I am sorry to hear about your mom. Dementia must be so hard to deal with.

 

[CJ2008]

I never heard of the "Toxic Parents" book before, but I read "Toxic People" many years ago. It's a fun, easy-to-read book and it has chapters on every flavor of jerk that exists: their hurtful methods and how you can deal with them effectively.

It's probably the best psychology-oriented book I ever read. I don't have much to say about "toxic parents" because my parents were good, loving parents who just happened to make a few big and small mistakes as most parents do. So they weren't toxic...but "toxic" or to use a less strong term, "difficult" people, are best avoided or have minimal contact with for one's own protection.

Sounds really interesting, maybe I'll pick up both books. Always good to know how to deal with jerks. haha

ETA: I think my parents are good people overall too. And I think they really did try. And that yes, they made some mistakes. What I'd like to see them do is continue trying to do the right thing with their finances and planning and not stop now. It's almost like now is when they need to step up the planning and the awareness, rather than look the other way because they already tried and failed. Even though I really wish things HAD worked out like they planned so that now I'd be hearing things like "we're going to Europe next month" and all I could feel is a big smile in my heart.

 

[MarionC]

I should explain further.
In my case my Dad was still doing the family taxes at 99 [he lived to 102]. I was concerned about the very things you are and my parents assured me that they had everything under control. They had been to an attorney and a financial advisor and I even went to a couple of their meetings.
However, things were NOT under control. The bank and advisor could only do so much. They created a trust to make the estate work easier, but my parents refused to transfer anything to it. They didn't tell me and the professionals could not because it was my parents private business.
After their deaths, it took my sister and me 50 days - 10 days at a time, 5 times, traveling from out of state, to organize their papers.
It was incredible. Two years later we are still sorting things out. We found safe deposit keys, but no clue which banks. That kind of stuff.
It didn't help that they saved every statement for the past 40 years. The day after my Mom died I shredded papers for 13 hours. and that was just one day.
My sister ended up taking boxes and boxes of papers home with her to try to decipher later.

My parents were very private and brushed me off when I tried to get more than superficially involved with them on that level.
In the interest of preserving our relationship I had to back off...and there is not much you can find out without their consent.

I know you have the best intentions - as I did- and I only hope your parents are more receptive to allowing you to be involved. You can only do so much. Best to you!

 

[CJ2008]

I should explain further.
In my case my Dad was still doing the family taxes at 99 [he lived to 102]. I was concerned about the very things you are and my parents assured me that they had everything under control. They had been to an attorney and a financial advisor and I even went to a couple of their meetings.
However, things were NOT under control. The bank and advisor could only do so much. They created a trust to make the estate work easier, but my parents refused to transfer anything to it. They didn't tell me and the professionals could not because it was my parents private business.
After their deaths, it took my sister and me 50 days - 10 days at a time, 5 times, traveling from out of state, to organize their papers.
It was incredible. Two years later we are still sorting things out. We found safe deposit keys, but no clue which banks. That kind of stuff.
It didn't help that they saved every statement for the past 40 years. The day after my Mom died I shredded papers for 13 hours. and that was just one day.
My sister ended up taking boxes and boxes of papers home with her to try to decipher later.

My parents were very private and brushed me off when I tried to get more than superficially involved with them on that level.
In the interest of preserving our relationship I had to back off...and there is not much you can find out without their consent.

I know you have the best intentions - as I did- and I only hope your parents are more receptive to allowing you to be involved. You can only do so much. Best to you!

Oh I see Jimmianne. I'm so glad you explained.

ETA: I am sure you did everything you possibly could. It is NOT easy.

So what you meant when you said that I was paying too much attention to what they were doing did you mean that no matter how much attention I pay, and even if they do have the advisors and even if they say they're doing all the right things on the surface, things could still be totally out of control?

Yes, I guess that could be. What I'm hoping though is that they really DO involve me, and for real. So that they trust me enough to let me see what's in the accounts and what's being done.

I have already started organizing whatever paperwork they have provided me in a binder - I'm hoping when I show it to them they will "see" the benefit of having everything in one place.

But I do realize that they could keep things from me and I will never know until I need to know. And until it's too late to prepare.

Believe me I know this, even though it may sound like I don't. Believe me I realize that at any moment they could also flat out tell me it's none of my business and to stop asking questions. That's why I'm trying to persuade and being patient NOW, even though it sometimes has me going around in circles.

I will feel better if I know I truly honestly tried and they refused or didn't want my help. It will make it a lot easier when the time comes and now they want the help, when things are truly in crisis.

 

[movie zombie]

yes, toxic is at many levels and different ways.....and it is the Susan Forward book that my husband found helpful. I read her book about toxic in-laws...... and the toxic parents book was recommended to my husband by his half-sister. why? well, let me simply say it had to do with finances, their mismanagement of same, living beyond their means expecting my husband to continue [yes, continue because he'd been doing it for years] co-signing loans with the bank to get their equity out to use to pay for debt and continue living beyond their means. repeat the cycle about every couple of years. they were in their late 50's at the time..........

however, your parents may not actually be toxic......but they could end up that way. the book helps you to identify behavior which is usually not just one thing. and it also gives suggestions on how to handle situations.

I think you perhaps now might understand why I've written some of the things I've written re your situation.
at the end of the day, though, you know the players and the situation way more than anyone in this thread can or would.

and I have to tell you that my husband had the book in his hand as we were getting off a plane and an attendant asked him about it, thumbed through it and stated that she needed that book. hubby had finished it and handed it to her. she was surprised and grateful. it is one of "those kind" of books that just can't help but play itself forward [lol, given the author's last name!].

 

[MarionC]

[/quote]

I will feel better if I know I truly honestly tried and they refused or didn't want my help. It will make it a lot easier when the time comes and now they want the help, when things are truly in crisis.[/quote]

I understand.

Your parents sound a bit more open than mine. I wonder if you explain in a way that makes them understand/think that it is making you anxious and they could help YOU by letting you help. You know - not about them, and trigger their parental instincts : )

[I've learn so much from my parents and do the opposite . When my daughter wants to help me I encourage it. It is good for her
and makes me feel warm&fuzzy ].

 

[CJ2008]

yes, toxic is at many levels and different ways.....and it is the Susan Forward book that my husband found helpful. I read her book about toxic in-laws...... and the toxic parents book was recommended to my husband by his half-sister. why? well, let me simply say it had to do with finances, their mismanagement of same, living beyond their means expecting my husband to continue [yes, continue because he'd been doing it for years] co-signing loans with the bank to get their equity out to use to pay for debt and continue living beyond their means. repeat the cycle about every couple of years. they were in their late 50's at the time..........

however, your parents may not actually be toxic......but they could end up that way. the book helps you to identify behavior which is usually not just one thing. and it also gives suggestions on how to handle situations.

I think you perhaps now might understand why I've written some of the things I've written re your situation.
at the end of the day, though, you know the players and the situation way more than anyone in this thread can or would.

and I have to tell you that my husband had the book in his hand as we were getting off a plane and an attendant asked him about it, thumbed through it and stated that she needed that book. hubby had finished it and handed it to her. she was surprised and grateful. it is one of "those kind" of books that just can't help but play itself forward [lol, given the author's last name!].

MZ I actually didn't need any explanation from you why you wrote the things you wrote - but thanks for explaining, gives me a little insight. And just FYI at the therapist many years ago she used the phrase "mentally abusive" to refer to something my mother did and I was shocked then too. Again - nothing horrible or terrible - nothing you can point to that most people would think of as abusive. But yeah, some control issues with my mother that kept me "prisoner" for a looooong time. And I am still somewhat...let's say...petrified of making her mad.

And DH's parents... also good people but boy have they allowed him to be the one to carry the WHOLE family's problems on his shoulders. So sad, really.

HOWEVER - I also recognize if *I* had kids I'd make PLENTY of mistakes too. G*d knows I have my issues.

BTW I found the book for free, by chance: http://www.feminish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/TOXIC-PARENTS.pdf

 

[CJ2008]

I will feel better if I know I truly honestly tried and they refused or didn't want my help. It will make it a lot easier when the time comes and now they want the help, when things are truly in crisis.[/quote]

I understand.

Your parents sound a bit more open than mine. I wonder if you explain in a way that makes them understand/think that it is making you anxious and they could help YOU by letting you help. You know - not about them, and trigger their parental instincts : )

[I've learn so much from my parents and do the opposite . When my daughter wants to help me I encourage it. It is good for her
and makes me feel warm&fuzzy ].[/quote]

Funny - Jimmianne I am so afraid of sounding self-interested to them during any of this because I fear that may trigger them thinking all I care about is myself. But more and more I've been allowing myself to be more truthful about how I really feel. I'm working up to it. Even yesterday when I said something to her along the lines of "I know you wouldn't want to give us any problems" it felt good to say it, and yes, in the moment I felt that it would trigger something for them. It's a little icky to me that it has "guilt" undertones (I hate hate hate when people use guilt on me and G*d knows my mother has used it and still uses it plenty on me!) but hopefully I won't need to say that kind of stuff too many times and it will trigger them to start thinking and pausing.

Good for you that you're reversing the pattern with your daughter.