Ebola arrives in America tomorrow on a fancy private jet

[Karl_K]

The problems as I see it was reactive rather proactive training and protocols.
When cutting costs the first thing to go is always the training budget and infectious disease training is expensive. Developing protocols that work for the given resources are expensive.
Having the proper equipment for those protocols is expensive.
The profit margin might drop one percent if it was done right and the share price would drop and nope nope nope cant let that happen.

 

[lyra]

No idea what the CDC told Ms. Vinson, but her colleague was diagnosed with Ebola the day before she took the flight. It was irresponsible of her to even question whether flying was a good idea or not, IMO. Just seems like common sense. Or sense of entitlement, I don't know.

My husband is flying all over the place right now, and my daughter is flying next week. It's disconcerting, but then it is ALWAYS risky when you're crammed in with 100 other people who might have who knows what. Ugh.

 

[azstonie]

Vinyl or nitrile gloves while at the airport/in cab. Face half-mask covering your nose and mouth (they wear them all the time in other countries, people wear them here when they are going through chemo and should not get the flu or a cold) when in crowds or sitting in the plane (air recycled throughout the plane).

Gloves in this case work because your only objective is to prevent *you* from handling germs in public places and then depositing said germs in your epithelia (eyes, nose, mouth) or in an opening in your skin to flourish and take over. Gloves in a medical or food handling environment are used differently/stringently.

At the airport and on the plane, wear long sleeves, pants to ankles at least, enclosed shoes/socks. Check out your immediate seatmates. Make changes when necessary.

Back when I used to fly all the time, I would wear old shoes/socks while in the airport and in public transportation and then throw them away at the hotel. Kept a different old pair in a giant baggie for return trip.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Second Texas healthcare worker has tested positive for ebola. As yet unnamed, but was one of the team who treated Duncan.

The Chinese say they have a new vaccine.

The Chinese say they have a cure for cancer. A lot of people don't even trust their food products.. Why would anyone trust their drugs?...

 

[Trekkie]

No idea what the CDC told Ms. Vinson, but her colleague was diagnosed with Ebola the day before she took the flight. It was irresponsible of her to even question whether flying was a good idea or not, IMO. Just seems like common sense. Or sense of entitlement, I don't know.

My husband is flying all over the place right now, and my daughter is flying next week. It's disconcerting, but then it is ALWAYS risky when you're crammed in with 100 other people who might have who knows what. Ugh.

I don't know if one can really blame her. She's just a nurse. The CDC said she was fine because her temperature was below their threshold. She didn't ask once, she asked repeatedly and each time was told that it was safe for her to fly. If anyone is at fault in this instance, it's the CDC for allowing her to travel, but further upstream it's the hospital for not having provided sufficient training and PPE for their staff.

What I find incredibly alarming is that there are reports that she was showing symptoms as long ago as Friday the 11th of October (http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/chi-ebola-nurse-outbreak-20141016-story.html#page=1). I don't know how accurate that is, but they have requested that anyone who was on her flight to Cleveland on Friday to contact the CDC. The bridal shop she visited on Saturday has closed and the staff have placed themselves under voluntary quarantine: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11168586/Bridal-store-closes-after-visit-from-Ebola-patient.html

I want to know why they have not quarantined everyone who has been in contact with Thomas Eric Duncan or the medical staff who cared for him. It is clear that simply monitoring them is not enough. This nurse was being monitored and look what happened.

QUARANTINE.

 

[kenny]

I want to know why they have not quarantined everyone who has been in contact with Thomas Eric Duncan or the medical staff who cared for him. It is clear that simply monitoring them is not enough. This nurse was being monitored and look what happened.

QUARANTINE.

+1!!!

I don't get it either.
I think America is afraid to be not nice to a person by 'taking away their freedom' for 3 weeks.

... who cares that letting exposed people roam freely during ebola's incubation period is not very nice to the other 319 million?

I just don't get it.

 

[Trekkie]

I want to know why they have not quarantined everyone who has been in contact with Thomas Eric Duncan or the medical staff who cared for him. It is clear that simply monitoring them is not enough. This nurse was being monitored and look what happened.

QUARANTINE.

+1!!!

I don't get it either.
I think America is afraid to be not nice to a person by 'taking away their freedom' for 3 weeks.

... who cares that letting exposed people roam freely during ebola's incubation period is not very nice to the other 319 million?

I just don't get it.

It is sheer lunacy!

Their right to freedom of movement does not trump everyone else's right to freedom from infection.

 

[TC1987]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/quarantined-on-cruise-ship_n_6001320.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
Woman who handled Duncan's medical samples is on a cruise ship and has voluntarily quarantined herself until they can get her off it. She has no symptoms, so far.


DF, China can do whatever China wants, without much impediment by regulations. Good environment in which to develop a vaccine faster than other regulated countries can? (shrug) I dunno.

 

[Trekkie]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/quarantined-on-cruise-ship_n_6001320.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
Woman who handled Duncan's medical samples is on a cruise ship and has voluntarily quarantined herself until they can get her off it. She has no symptoms, so far.


DF, China can do whatever China wants, without much impediment by regulations. Good environment in which to develop a vaccine faster than other regulated countries can? (shrug) I dunno.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat!

On a cruise???

Is she insane?! Who does that?!?!?!

I commend her for being sensible and quarantining herself now, but who allowed her to go on the damn cruise in the first place?

Quarantine, people. Quarantine.

 

[TC1987]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1018543-nina-pham-boyfriend-ebola-nurse-boyfriend-admitted-to-hospital-with-ebola-like-symptoms/
Nina's boyfriend admitted w/ ebola symptoms now.

Ohio public radio news verbally reported that the other nurse's mother and boyfriend both flew to TX to be with her. Ain't that a hole in the boat. If I were in TX with ebola, my parents and boyfriend and relatives back in Ohio who'd possibly been exposed would either a) stay at home under voluntary quarantine or b) ... lessee here... Gee, I guess there would not be any other PRUDENT choices, would there.

Second nurse went to a bridal store in Akron. It's now closed. I presume it's also out of business, at least in that storefront and under that name, and that the entire inventory will have to be disposed of as medical /biohazard waste. People have not begun to comprehend all the possible fallout from an ebola outbreak.

I hate to admit it, but this fiasco is making me firmer in my resolve that R.N. training is overloaded on churchwoman, mama, and waitress training and too light on fighting disease and nitty-gritty get the work done right. I spend a year in a diploma school, which is supposed to be hands-on practical clinical experience, and I know for a fact that I nearly overdosed on the religion and fluff and birthing babies. And if they putzed along at that pace the 2nd year, that would be some disgustingly flyweight education. That's another thing that I unabashedly told the director of that R.N. school.

 

[Karl_K]

I hate to admit it, but this fiasco is making me firmer in my resolve that R.N. training is overloaded on churchwoman, mama, and waitress training and too light on fighting disease and nitty-gritty get the work done right. I spend a year in a diploma school, which is supposed to be hands-on practical clinical experience, and I know for a fact that I nearly overdosed on the religion and fluff and birthing babies. And if they putzed along at that pace the 2nd year, that would be some disgustingly flyweight education. That's another thing that I unabashedly told the director of that R.N. school.

My niece is a nurse and your wrong in general I think.
They spend a lot of time learning it then they get out in the real world and they are so over worked they don't have time to practice it to the levels that they should.
One place she worked they took away her hand sanitizer they kept on the cart because someone might grab it and drink it. She then got yelled at for keeping some in her pocket and using it between rooms.
She left shortly thereafter and that assisted care home cold and flu counts skyrocketed so they let them have it back.
My mom died of an infection she caught in the hospital and I got it and it made me very sick and messed up one of my lungs.
Hospitals today around here are even filthier than they were then from shortages of housekeeping and maintenance staff.
It is disgusting and kills people.
So it is no surprise that it spread to the medical staff.

 

[Matata]

I think this contains an interesting perspective and informs about the protocol for wearing and taking off protective suits.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html

 

[ksinger]

I think this contains an interesting perspective and informs about the protocol for wearing and taking off protective suits.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html

Excellent!!

 

[ksinger]

OMG! Worst case scenario!

Some Fear Ebola Outbreak Could Make Nation Turn to Science
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/fear-ebola-outbreak-make-nation-turn-science?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=facebook&mbid=social_facebook

 

[Trekkie]

I think this contains an interesting perspective and informs about the protocol for wearing and taking off protective suits.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman/im-a-hazmat-trained-hospi_b_5998486.html

Oh, wow. Interesting article, thanks!

 

[kenny]

OMG! Worst case scenario!

Some Fear Ebola Outbreak Could Make Nation Turn to Science
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/fear-ebola-outbreak-make-nation-turn-science?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=facebook&mbid=social_facebook

Hahaha.
Fear, panic and facing the unknown making American turn to ... ... .... Science?
That sounds like it came from The Onion, not The New Yorker.

Oh well.
There goes family values.

 

[TC1987]

http://fox8.com/2014/10/15/cleveland-clinic-metrohealth-announce-their-nurses-were-aboard-flight-with-nurse-diagnosed-with-ebola/
^ Just saw that story today. 13 other nurses were on the flight from Dallas to Ohio, returning from a nursing conference. They are from Cleveland Clinic, MetroHealth System, and Aultman Hospital in the Cleveland metro area. Talk about bad luck.

 

[TC1987]

Someone other than me dares to bring up the subject that quarantine may need to be longer than 21 days, and maybe 40 or 60 or whatever
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/manoj-jain-md-mph/ebola-quarantine_b_6009176.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Nina Pham's dog is now in a metabolic cage w/o human contact for at least 21 days.

 

[Trekkie]

Someone other than me dares to bring up the subject that quarantine may need to be longer than 21 days, and maybe 40 or 60 or whatever
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/manoj-jain-md-mph/ebola-quarantine_b_6009176.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Nina Pham's dog is now in a metabolic cage w/o human contact for at least 21 days.

Excerpt:

"On Oct. 20, quarantine for many, including the family of Thomas Eric Duncan and the health workers who cared for him during his first ER visit, will end. Should we consider a longer quarantining period to increase the level of certainty that no contact has an incubation period greater than 21 days?"

Wait, what? Was anyone other than his family actually in quarantine? I thought they were just "self-monitoring"?

I've been saying all along - along with Kenny and yourself and one or two others - that these people should have been quarantined. But hey, what do I know? I ain't had no skoolin.

On a somewhat related note, has anyone read the article about the two male strippers who sat within 3 feet of Amber Joy Vinson who have self-quarantined?

“If a stripper can make a decision that’s more responsible than the CDC, then surely other people can make those decisions, too. It’s not rocket science.”

m.nydailynews.com/news/national/male-strippers-quarantine-flying-ebola-stricken-nurse-article-1.1977644

 

[missy]

I want to know why they have not quarantined everyone who has been in contact with Thomas Eric Duncan or the medical staff who cared for him. It is clear that simply monitoring them is not enough. This nurse was being monitored and look what happened.

QUARANTINE.

+1!!!

I don't get it either.
I think America is afraid to be not nice to a person by 'taking away their freedom' for 3 weeks.

... who cares that letting exposed people roam freely during ebola's incubation period is not very nice to the other 319 million?

I just don't get it.

It is sheer lunacy!

Their right to freedom of movement does not trump everyone else's right to freedom from infection.

I agree with 1. Not allowing air travel from countries infected with Ebola would be a start and 2. quarantining those who have been in contact with anyone infected.

However option one will never happen because it wouldn't be PC.
Look where Ebola is rampant and then realize how it might look to others on the outside if we were to ban travel from those countries. IMO it is exactly what we should do but one could see how it might make our country look even more racist. My POV is Too bad how it might make us look. Just ban travel. Safety first and we should do whatever we can to prevent this from becoming an even more tragic health epidemic than it is. But that will never happen because of the reason I stated.

 

[ksinger]

Sigh.

Why does everyone assume that the reasons we don't implement a ban are racial or PC-ish? How about legitimate concerns for the logistics of doing so? Or that doing so might put a real and long-term chill on the fight against ebola? Because one thing most people agree on, if we don't help mightily to get it under control THERE, IN AFRICA, then we WILL continue to see more of it worldwide.

As this piece (excerpted at the bottom) points out,

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141007-ebola-travel-ban-restrictions-health-world/

the reasoning is not quite as simple as everyone wants to make it. MY question is, do we want a big showy sop to assuage our fears - a sop that might not really make a difference but will make us all FEEL better, or something that really works? As usual, the cries for closing the borders or restricting flights are deflecting from the more pressing issue. The problem is not so much that we get one or two infected people here (I honestly think we will get those no matter how draconian we become at the borders or in the airports. The people who demand 100% safety are as usual, operating without any reference to the real world, where 100% anything doesn't exist.), the problem that has made this SO much worse than it ever had to be, is how pathetically we have handled it thus far in our average, representative hospital - like the one in Dallas. As the woman who wrote that piece linked above by Matata, has pointed out, this has really ripped the curtain away from the dysfunction in our supposedly oh-so-great medical system, and rather than pay attention to THAT, we'd all rather try to focus on just keeping the problem from ever showing up here. That's great and all, but I honestly believe if we'd NOT had this happen, we never would have known just how bad things have gotten here. We would have continued to pat ourselves on the back about how wonderful our medical system is, when it is now rather obvious it is NOT. In my opinion, the REAL freakout should not be that we get a case or two of ebola here, but that once we DO, we apparently are completely at a loss as to how to actually handle it. Honestly? From my point of view, we've been given a gift. Can you imagine if we'd had this happen with a novel 1918-ish strain of flu that IS airborne and highly contagious? How completely overwhelmed our systems would be? This is a relatively low-risk wake up call to up our public health game before something comes along that spreads like wildfire and kills in days.

From Matata's article:

"We run at least an annual drill at my hospital each year. We are a small hospital and thus are a small emergency response team. But because we make a point to review our protocols, train our staff (actually practice donning/doffing gear), I realized this week that this puts us ahead at some much larger and more notable hospitals in the United States. Every hospital should be running these types of emergency response drills yearly, at least. To hear that the nurses in Dallas reported that there were no protocols at their hospital broke my heart. Their health care system failed them. In the United States we always talk about how the health care system is failing patients, but the truth is, it has failed its employees too. Not just doctors and nurses, but allied health professionals as well. The presence of Ebola on American soil has drawn out the true vulnerabilities in the health care system, and they are not fiscally based. We spend trillions of dollars on health care in this country -- yet the allocation of those funds are grossly disproportionate to how other countries spend their health care expenditures. We aren't focused on population health. Now, with Ebola threatening our population, the truth is out.

The truth is, in terms of virology, Ebola should not be a threat to American citizens. We have clean water. We have information. We have the means to educate ourselves, practice proper hand-washing procedures, protect ourselves with hazmat suits. The CDC Disease Detectives were dispatched to Dallas almost immediately to work on the front lines to identify those who might be at risk, who could have been exposed. We have the technology, and we certainly have the money to keep Ebola at bay. What we don't have is communication. What we don't have is a health care system that values preventative care. What we don't have is an equal playing field between nurses and physicians and allied health professionals and patients. What we don't have is a culture of health where we work symbiotically with one another and with the technology that was created specifically to bridge communication gaps, but has in so many ways failed. What we don't have is the social culture of transparency, what we don't have is a stopgap against mounting hysteria and hypochondria, what we don't have is nation of health literate individuals. We don't even have health-literate professionals. Most doctors are specialists and are well versed only in their field. Ask your orthopedist a general question about your health -- see if they can comfortably answer it.

As we slide now into flu season, into a time of year when we are normally braced for winter diseases, colds, flus, sick days and cancelled plans, the American people has also now been truly exposed to another disease entirely: the excruciating truth about our health care system's dysfunction -- and the prognosis doesn't look good."


A glimpse into the real discussions going on about the pros and cons of bans and screenings.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141007-ebola-travel-ban-restrictions-health-world/

It seems so obvious: To keep Ebola out of the United States, simply keep anyone who has the deadly disease from getting in.

Some prominent Obama administration critics have made that argument this week, calling for a travel ban into the U.S. from the West African nations of Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, where more than 3,400 have died of the virus and thousands more are infected. There's a growing social media chorus calling for a ban, too. (Related: As Ebola's Spread Continues, Key Questions and Answers)

By cutting off travel from the Ebola zone, the thinking goes, someone like Thomas Duncan—the Liberian diagnosed with Ebola in Dallas last week and died Wednesday morning in a Dallas hospital—would never have made it into the United States. Ebola is not detectable (or contagious) until the patient develops symptoms such as fever and vomiting, so Duncan's illness could not have been diagnosed until after he arrived in the U.S.

The U.S. government does appear ready to increase screening of air passengers arriving in the United States from several West African nations by taking their temperatures, a federal official told CNN on Wednesday. And yet the Obama administration has steadfastly rejected the idea of an outright ban on travel to and from West Africa.

Thomas Frieden, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has been asked repeatedly about a travel ban in near-daily briefings with the press over the past week. Each time, he has insisted it won't work.

Frieden, who is heading the government's Ebola response, has gone as far as to say that a travel ban could hurt Americans in the long run, by limiting the ability of relief workers and supplies to get into West Africa's Ebola zone.

"Until the disease is controlled in Africa, we can't get the disease to zero here," Frieden said at a Tuesday news conference.

Public health experts generally back the administration's actions, and most oppose a travel ban, at least for the moment. But they say the issue is more nuanced than Frieden has made it out to be. A travel ban would have kept Duncan from bringing Ebola to the U.S., they say, and could keep out some future infected travelers.

"It is a question, I think, on which people can honestly disagree," said Stephen S. Morse, professor of epidemiology at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health. "There are good arguments to be made on both sides. It's partly a philosophical choice."

Politics and Perception

Six African countries have already banned or suspended flights from Liberia, Guinea, and Sierra Leone, and others have instituted other travel restrictions. (Related: "Doctors and Nurses Risk Everything to Fight Ebola in West Africa.")

And since late August, the U.S. State Department has urged Americans to avoid all non-essential travel to Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea.

But Congressman Alan Grayson, a Florida Democrat, wants the U.S government to go further. Grayson said he would propose legislation calling for a ban if the administration continues to avoid one.

"It will prevent infected travelers in whom Ebola is asymptomatic and undetectable from traveling to the United States and then exposing Americans to the disease after they become symptomatic," he said by e-mail.

It takes anywhere from 2 to 21 days for someone who has been exposed to the Ebola virus to show symptoms. People who are not symptomatic are not contagious, and Duncan did not have symptoms while he was traveling and so could not pass the virus on to fellow passengers. No one who came into contact with Duncan has yet become ill, though several family members and contacts are under observation until the 21 days have elapsed.

A number of high-profile Republican politicians, including Texas Senator Ted Cruz and Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, have said that more needs to be done to keep Ebola victims from arriving on U.S. soil. But they've stopped short of demanding a full ban.

Wendy Parmet, director of the Program on Health Policy and Law at Northeastern University School of Law, in Boston, said that travel bans are appealing because they make people feel safe. But she argued that safety could be an illusion.

"It gives us the false assurance that we can ignore the problems that are happening in Africa," she said. "At the end of the day, we can't. And our own safety depends on our getting it right there, not on building the walls."

Would a Ban Matter?

Many public health experts who oppose the travel ban argue that it's simply not practical. That includes Columbia University's Morse, who describes himself as a "fence-sitter" on the issue but doesn't support a travel ban right now because people with financial means can travel to an intermediate country before entering the United States. West Africa's many porous borders make such travel even easier, he said.

It wouldn't make sense to ban people who fly out of Senegal—where, like the United States, there has been only one case of Ebola, Morse said. But if one person with Ebola made it there, others could, too.

A ban could also encourage people to lie about where they have been, Morse said: "One of the real concerns is that if you outlaw [travel], it will discourage people from coming forth with the truth."

Frieden, for his part, has focused his opposition to a travel ban on the hardship it would present for fighting the epidemic in Africa.

"If we do something that impedes our ability to stop the outbreak in West Africa, it could spread further there," he said Tuesday.

On Sunday, Frieden also cited the example of Senegal, which has restricted flights from the affected countries. The restrictions delayed the arrival of investigators looking for people who had come into contact with the country's one Ebola patient.

Plus, international volunteers who go into West Africa to help treat Ebola patients need to know that they can get back out, Frieden said.

At SIM, an international mission that has led Ebola treatment centers and seen two of its American missionaries recover from the virus, travel restrictions might make volunteers think twice, said George Salloum, who leads the agency's Ebola crisis response team.

"Anything you do to restrict movement of people back and forth or keeping them from getting back to work, it could have an impact on the flow of people willing to serve overseas," he said.

Screening at Airports—and Beyond

Those on both sides of the travel ban debate appear to support aggressive airport screening, to ensure that sick people won't be able to get on a plane and potentially infect fellow passengers.

President Obama on Monday announced plans to step up airport screening in the United States and in West Africa, evaluating travelers for signs of illness, better informing airport personnel on how to spot Ebola, and handing out fact sheets to incoming passengers from affected countries.

He did not reveal specifics about what he would change and did not mention a travel ban.

Frieden said Tuesday that he would announce more details in a few days. Among measures being considered, he said, are temperature checks and questionnaires given to passengers arriving in the United States. On Wednesday morning, CNN reported that temperature checks will begin this weekend or next week on passengers whose travel itineraries include the affected West African nations.

Frieden said that 77 people have been blocked from leaving the affected countries since this summer, when officials began questioning travelers and screening their temperatures at airports in Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone. None of them tested positive for Ebola, he said, adding that they most likely had malaria, a mosquito-borne disease that shares early symptoms with Ebola.

A temperature check could have stopped Patrick Sawyer, a Liberian-born American citizen who flew from Liberia to Nigeria in late July while sick with Ebola, from spreading the disease.

Sawyer directly or indirectly infected 20 people in Nigeria, eight of whom died, as did Sawyer himself. It's unclear whether he knew he had Ebola when he left Liberia. A travel ban likely would not have stopped Sawyer from entering because he was a U.S. citizen, though an effective temperature scan would have.

Still, airport screening is hardly foolproof. Duncan may have lied when answering questions about whether he had been exposed to anyone with Ebola. Or he may not have realized that helping a pregnant neighbor to the hospital in Liberia exposed him to the virus, Frieden said.

Beyond airports, hospitals are an important second line of defense against Ebola, said Jill Holdsworth, an infection control practitioner at Inova Mount Vernon Hospital in Alexandria, Virginia.

Duncan's symptoms were missed as Ebola the first time he went to Texas Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, although he apparently indicated that he had recently arrived from Liberia. Several hospital workers and the ambulance drivers who took Duncan back to Texas Presbyterian two days later may have been exposed because of that mistake.

"As soon as a patient walks in, if they present with a fever, you should ask them about recent travel history," said Holdsworth, who is also a spokesperson for the 15,000-member Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology. "If they say yes, they immediately get taken to a room until we can figure out what's going on. That's what every hospital has to be doing."

 

[missy]

Yes, I agree with many of those points. However, until the US is better able to handle this we are just running the risk of overwhelming our already overwhelmed healthcare system which is not a great system by any means. So I don't understand the point of letting Ebola loose here until we have a better handle on how to deal with this and until we are able to get more of the vaccine made. That man died because there was no vaccine left. The fact remains the disease is contagious and the fact remains the US has shown that it has neither the skill, ability nor knowledge to deal with an outbreak at this time. That does not mean this is not a learning experience from which we can learn how to effectively deal with Ebola and other infectious agents however at this moment in time I don't think we caneffectively handle an Ebola outbreak.

 

[lyra]

I'm sorry, but the US and North America in general, are fully capable of handling the ebola cases that might pop up here. It's expected that there will be some. The countries in Africa are not equipped enough to deal with it, and that's why THEY are having such a horrible time with it. Send donations, don't just sit and say NIMBY!! Seriously, we are sending troops and medical workers and supplies there to help. Contain the problem at it's source, don't worry about something happening here that can't be handled. It can be handled here. The people who have been infected on US soil are all doing well with treatment.

 

[TooPatient]

I've been following this with interest and have a few questions. I have tried to find the answers but I don't know where to look and which source has accurate information regarding this.

Where did the 21 day incubation number come from? I've heard it used but don't know where they are getting this from. Is it really 21 at the most or is it possibly longer? Why not 22 days? (or more)

Is this strictly in humans (and monkeys?) or is this something that can be carried by other animals like cats/dogs/birds? If it is only in people, is it something that could get into another species? If so, how likely is that?

Does bleach actually kill the virus? As in, if there is a sick person and you clean up the messes with bleach does that really kill the virus?
If not bleach, then what?

 

[Karl_K]

I've been following this with interest and have a few questions. I have tried to find the answers but I don't know where to look and which source has accurate information regarding this.
Im am far from an expert and this is just what I have gathered....
Where did the 21 day incubation number come from? I've heard it used but don't know where they are getting this from. Is it really 21 at the most or is it possibly longer? Why not 22 days? (or more)
the longest known is under 21 days that does not mean it always will be.

Is this strictly in humans (and monkeys?) or is this something that can be carried by other animals like cats/dogs/birds? If it is only in people, is it something that could get into another species? If so, how likely is that?
At this time the general thougt is its a human monkey thing. Other animals can carry infected fluids on them to other people but as far as I can find are not thought to be carriers.

Does bleach actually kill the virus? As in, if there is a sick person and you clean up the messes with bleach does that really kill the virus?
bleach will kill it but it has to be properly used which is not always easy. Right strength, left on long enough and covered every square inch of every surface. Ebola is not a long time survivor outside the body compared to some thankfully
If not bleach, then what?

 

[TooPatient]

I've been following this with interest and have a few questions. I have tried to find the answers but I don't know where to look and which source has accurate information regarding this.
Im am far from an expert and this is just what I have gathered....
Where did the 21 day incubation number come from? I've heard it used but don't know where they are getting this from. Is it really 21 at the most or is it possibly longer? Why not 22 days? (or more)
the longest known is under 21 days that does not mean it always will be.

Is this strictly in humans (and monkeys?) or is this something that can be carried by other animals like cats/dogs/birds? If it is only in people, is it something that could get into another species? If so, how likely is that?
At this time the general thougt is its a human monkey thing. Other animals can carry infected fluids on them to other people but as far as I can find are not thought to be carriers.

Does bleach actually kill the virus? As in, if there is a sick person and you clean up the messes with bleach does that really kill the virus?
bleach will kill it but it has to be properly used which is not always easy. Right strength, left on long enough and covered every square inch of every surface. Ebola is not a long time survivor outside the body compared to some thankfully
If not bleach, then what?

Thanks!

That is sort of what I had been reading too but it seems like there is so much unknown I wasn't sure if this was still current or if there had been further research I hadn't seen.

It is great that it doesn't survive outside as well as some of the others.

 

[Matata]

Information on vectors, ability to survive on surfaces, etc.

http://www.msdsonline.com/resources/msds-resources/free-safety-data-sheet-index/ebola-virus.aspx

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/environmental-infection-control-in-hospitals.html

 

[TooPatient]

Information on vectors, ability to survive on surfaces, etc.

http://www.msdsonline.com/resources/msds-resources/free-safety-data-sheet-index/ebola-virus.aspx

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/environmental-infection-control-in-hospitals.html

Great links!

Looks like they think it is possible for dogs to get ebola. That would explain why they are isolating the nurse's dog.

So it looks like the virus is not happy if you can get a higher temperature for long enough (30-60 minutes at 60C or 5 minutes boiling) and keeping moisture down is important too (they mentioned it doesn't live long if dried up).

I know it isn't as simple as this, but is there some way to heat the body of an infected person enough that the virus dies without killing the person? Or does heat like that only work if the virus is out of the body?

Love the details about cleaners that can kill the virus! I didn't realize there were different sorts in use.

 

[Karl_K]

Looks like they think it is possible for dogs to get ebola. That would explain why they are isolating the nurse's dog.

cdc answer:
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas-pets.html

Also because there is an immune reaction does not mean they can spread it from what I understand.
It is better to be safe than sorry while all of the answers are not in on it.

 

[Karl_K]

I know it isn't as simple as this, but is there some way to heat the body of an infected person enough that the virus dies without killing the person? Or does heat like that only work if the virus is out of the body?

To heat a human to 60c or 140F everywhere in their body would mean cooking them 140 degrees is the internal temp of a med to med-well done streak.