Do You Value Friendship?

[Jambalaya]

Let me be clear that I value the idea of friendship: A mutually supportive and respectful relationship in which both parties have fun together but also give and receive emotional sustenance, free of jealousy and resentment.

Please excuse me while I roll about on the floor clutching my sides.

Throughout my life I've always had a lot of close female friends, there's been a lot of wine-pouring and parsing of boyfriend troubles and many, many conversations deep into the night.

However, that was when I was younger.

Since getting older, friendship seems to have changed. This thread is bouncing off the "Are you happy?" thread where CJ and I were discussing how many people wish only to talk about themselves, permanently. Moving through my forties, I've found that people have become self-involved to a really amazing degree. It wasn't like that in our twenties and thirties. I have had dinners where, as CJ says, the other person talks about themselves the entire evening.

Yesterday, I was with a friend who's had some really bad times and I've been supportive. Finally, when it was my turn to speak, she yells and points over my shoulder "Corgi! I love corgis!" Yeah. I get it. What I'm saying means nothing, unless I'm handing out comfort to you.

I have broken off "friendships" with around five women over the last couple of years because their levels of selfishness were absolutely appalling. One was so bad that she permanently hogged the conversation, and when I tried to talk, do you know what she did? She actually raised her voice. And, if you can believe this, she did this the first time I saw her after my dad died, about which she could have cared less. We no longer speak.

It seems to me that this tsunami of selfishness has appeared in middle age. Most people have not been there for me during my own troubles and only wish to talk about themselves, and friendship always having been important to me, this has caused me to re-think the value of friendship. Do I really need it? If it's so false and flimsy, aren't I better off trying to write that novel or compose that symphony or take a part-time job and earn some money? What's the use of putting any time into friendship if it's all built on sand, as it so frequently seems to be? I could be earning extra money or honing a skill.

You know, I really like to have a glass of wine and a laugh with people, too. But nowadays, everyone's so busy talking about themselves that we don't even get to the jokes and the laughs.

I really think that very few people are enlightened, wise, and kind enough to be a true friend. I also think that there are many people who are fine as long as you are not too successful, but what about if you got really successful? Wonderful home, great clothes, great vacations? I'm not sure how many of them would stick around. Not that I'm about to be successful, but I don't want to waste time on fair-weather friends, either.

But when I was younger, selfish women were never, ever a problem, and now I have great trouble finding friends who aren't a) completely selfish and self-involved, or b) not completely selfish all the time but are clearly struggling to pay you and your life any real attention. Where did this tidal wave of selfishness come from? It's true that everyone I know is dealing with terrible life problems, but I have also dealt with those over the last few years, and I don't think it's turned me into someone who is virtually incapable of realizing that others exist and others have needs.

I realize that we all need people, but I think I'm done with the deep-and-meaningfuls. I think I'd rather just have my community and see people in a group while doing something fun, like taking a course. The older I get, the less store I set by deep friendship, and that is based on experience.

A young friend of mine said she lost two friends when she had her first child, because they wanted kids too and were either single or TTC. They simply were not able to find it in their hearts to be happy for their friend, and they withdrew their friendship because she committed the crime of reproducing when their circumstances didn't permit it. Think about what that says, for a moment. It says, "You are only allowed to be happy when I am happy. If you forge ahead with your life and obtain something that I cannot, then I will withdraw from you my companionship, time, support, and affection." And society says that friendship is a good thing!

I have been very, very hurt by what amounts to rejection of me by people who clearly are not in the least interested in what I have to say, and not even caring much about hiding that fact, I am apparently so unimportant. It's also hard to hold on to your confidence when so many people who are meant to be friends could care less about anything that comes out of your mouth.

I think I might have to institute a policy where I just do not provide any support or comfort to anyone, since that's all anyone ever seems to use me for. I might have to restrict myself to "I'm so sorry, I don't know what to say." Cooing noises, in other words.

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences of friendships as they have aged and serious life stressors such as terminal bereavement, and other issues have come into play. Has life stress had negative impacts on others' abilities to relate, in your experience?

Sorry if this is depressing but I find these "friendships" depressing.

 

[chrono]

This is why I have only a very few that I consider as friends. Those in this small circle are as per the description you wrote earlier. I am very comfortable with them and will share anything and everything freely. They feel the same as I do. The rest are acquaintances and I have lots of them.

 

[Jambalaya]

Yeah, I've basically got three friends who I would say don't suffer from the "me me me" problem. Three, that's all. The rest think that their own selves are the most important, rare, and fascinating creatures imaginable. They must see unicorns when they look in the mirror!

 

[Sky56]

I used to feel like an exception and a big loser and when I found out that so many people experience the same thing, a big source of depression and self-hatred lifted.

I've lost so many friends through the years, close friends and good acquantences. Drifting away, may be mainly because moving from East Coast to West long ago.

I have very few close friends, these few have passed the test of time simply by being reciprocally communicating and being great friends.

It really hurts when I remember those many lost friendships which I didn't want to lose. I tried to keep some of the friendships going but failed to regain their interest. I dropped away when I noticed that I was the only one making any effort to stay in touch.

Other friends I lost by engaging in a stupid regretted argument or mutual feelings that the other person was not there for them. I lost a lot through natural death, but those lost those other ways sting very much more for me. I call it "friend divorce." The pain comes from the spiraling negative feelings of "what a loser I am, I lost so many friends. there is something wrong with me, nobody likes me and nobody ever will...)

The only way I found to get beyond it was to understand it through therapy or self-talk, daily feel grateful for what I have and the realization is that "most friendships have expiration dates and nothing is wrong with me."

 

[dk168]

Friends come and go.

True friends do not judge.

Friendship is a two-way process.

DK

 

[liaerfbv]

A young friend of mine said she lost two friends when she had her first child, because they wanted kids too and were either single or TTC. They simply were not able to find it in their hearts to be happy for their friend, and they withdrew their friendship because she committed the crime of reproducing when their circumstances didn't permit it. Think about what that says, for a moment. It says, "You are only allowed to be happy when I am happy. If you forge ahead with your life and obtain something that I cannot, then I will withdraw from you my companionship, time, support, and affection." And society says that friendship is a good thing!

On the reverse side, I lost several very close friends during my 20's because I wasn't having children. One of my long time friends found it too difficult to be friends with me after she had children while I was (unsuccessfully) TTC because she felt like she couldn't talk about her life - though I had never offered her anything other than support and encouragement. In general, I think it can be difficult to maintain friendships with anyone who isn't in the same "phase" as you (single, married, married with kids) - interests, time commitments, and generally what is going on in your life is VERY different and it can breed misunderstandings and miscommunication.

I don't understand why you take issue with the above friend who withdrew her friendship from your friend because it was causing her pain. Whether or not you think her pain was real, justified, selfish, etc. they were her feelings, and she did the honest thing by "breaking up" with her vs. maintaining a passive aggressive relationship that was insincere. I don't think of it a "you are only allowed to be happy when I am happy," I think of it that in life I want to surround myself with relationships that make my life better, and if there's one that isn't, it needs to go.

To answer your question, I have a best friend whom I've been close with over half my life, who is literally a sister to me. Other friends have come and gone, but she is a lifetime friend and I don't really need anyone else.

ETA: I haven't reached middle age yet, but I can't imagine most of the people I know becoming MORE selfish!

 

[telephone89]

I have one friend who I am starting to ice out. We've known each other since elementary school, and she's always been a bit... I dont know how to describe her. One of our other friends thinks shes a pathological liar. Very fantastical stories we hear. Anyways. For the past year or so, we will call or text, and suggest meeting up. Mostly me, but occasionally her as well. Then, like clockwork, the day OF something comes up, shes sick/driving to another city/working/etc. And I just don't believe her, and even if I did, it's obvious that she doesn't value our friendship as much as I do. It's gotten to the point that if she makes plans, I already have backup plans because its 99% chance she will not show up.

I know the type you are talking about though. Luckily I dont think I have many friends like that, however I know 2 at work. It's almost like 1-upping. Like "No, I have to be talking. I dont care what its about, but I need to be talking". Its very annoying at work, because during lunch someone can be talking, and then one of these people just starts laughing and starts passing around her phone like 'omg look at this funny thing I found' and totally interupts the other person. Rude.

 

[Jambalaya]

A young friend of mine said she lost two friends when she had her first child, because they wanted kids too and were either single or TTC. They simply were not able to find it in their hearts to be happy for their friend, and they withdrew their friendship because she committed the crime of reproducing when their circumstances didn't permit it. Think about what that says, for a moment. It says, "You are only allowed to be happy when I am happy. If you forge ahead with your life and obtain something that I cannot, then I will withdraw from you my companionship, time, support, and affection." And society says that friendship is a good thing!

On the reverse side, I lost several very close friends during my 20's because I wasn't having children. One of my long time friends found it too difficult to be friends with me after she had children while I was (unsuccessfully) TTC because she felt like she couldn't talk about her life - though I had never offered her anything other than support and encouragement. In general, I think it can be difficult to maintain friendships with anyone who isn't in the same "phase" as you (single, married, married with kids) - interests, time commitments, and generally what is going on in your life is VERY different and it can breed misunderstandings and miscommunication.

I don't understand why you take issue with the above friend who withdrew her friendship from your friend because it was causing her pain. Whether or not you think her pain was real, justified, selfish, etc. they were her feelings, and she did the honest thing by "breaking up" with her vs. maintaining a passive aggressive relationship that was insincere. I don't think of it a "you are only allowed to be happy when I am happy," I think of it that in life I want to surround myself with relationships that make my life better, and if there's one that isn't, it needs to go.

To answer your question, I have a best friend whom I've been close with over half my life, who is literally a sister to me. Other friends have come and gone, but she is a lifetime friend and I don't really need anyone else.

ETA: I haven't reached middle age yet, but I can't imagine most of the people I know becoming MORE selfish!

Because the friend dumped the new mom, which hurt her. Maybe the birth caused the dumper pain, but that's not the fault of the new mom. The new mom did not have a baby to inflict pain on her friend, but the dumper knew that withdrawing her friendship would cause the mom pain. A true friend would try to put that aside so as not to hurt the friend who has done nothing wrong. The friendship was fine before the birth, by the way. Neither of these women had been diagnosed with infertility or had infertility treatments, mind. One went on to have a baby, it just took a few months longer, and the other was single but dating and hoping to find someone. They were just jealous, followed their lower selves, and hurt the new mom at a vulnerable time in her life.

ETA: I guess that's what I mean when I say "enlightened." That in a situation where the friendship is fine, it doesn't change just because someone has something you don't, or has more, or has better, that what you have. It takes a person of excellent character to simply be glad for others, I think. In a situation like I described above with friends, I always wonder whether the dumper would want to be friends with the mom again if the baby disappeared, like got sick and died. The problem was that there was a baby, so if there's suddenly no baby....what then? Friends again? I dunno, I've never dumped anyone for having something I haven't when I previously liked them fine, so I wouldn't know.

I had a lifelong sister-friend, too. Friends for three decades. She faded out of my life after my family members got sick and I had to move away to care for them. Then, after my sister died, that friend never contacted me again, although I contacted her. Be aware that those lifelong sister-friendships don't always make it, either.

 

[Jambalaya]

I have one friend who I am starting to ice out. We've known each other since elementary school, and she's always been a bit... I dont know how to describe her. One of our other friends thinks shes a pathological liar. Very fantastical stories we hear. Anyways. For the past year or so, we will call or text, and suggest meeting up. Mostly me, but occasionally her as well. Then, like clockwork, the day OF something comes up, shes sick/driving to another city/working/etc. And I just don't believe her, and even if I did, it's obvious that she doesn't value our friendship as much as I do. It's gotten to the point that if she makes plans, I already have backup plans because its 99% chance she will not show up.

I know the type you are talking about though. Luckily I dont think I have many friends like that, however I know 2 at work. It's almost like 1-upping. Like "No, I have to be talking. I dont care what its about, but I need to be talking". Its very annoying at work, because during lunch someone can be talking, and then one of these people just starts laughing and starts passing around her phone like 'omg look at this funny thing I found' and totally interupts the other person. Rude.

YES! That's exactly what some people tend to be like. Such a good way to describe it. One friend who had worked for Unilever described in excruciating detail, very slowly, all the Unilever brands she'd ever worked on. "Let's see..........there was Persil.....then Mentadent P.......then around 1999 there was hmmm....Herbal Essences....."

I was so bored I could have chewed my own arm off! But yes, it's just "I need to be talking, doesn't matter about what, I just need to be talking."

I feel as if, when I was a child, adults used to teach you that talking too much and not listening to others was not polite. All that seems to have gone out the window today.

I've got to the point where, when someone is going on and on about absolutely nothing, I'm just going to interrupt them and say, "Look, you're really talking a lot and you need to stop. It's rude to dominate the conversation."

 

[Jambalaya]

I have one friend who I am starting to ice out. We've known each other since elementary school, and she's always been a bit... I dont know how to describe her. One of our other friends thinks shes a pathological liar. Very fantastical stories we hear. Anyways. For the past year or so, we will call or text, and suggest meeting up. Mostly me, but occasionally her as well. Then, like clockwork, the day OF something comes up, shes sick/driving to another city/working/etc. And I just don't believe her, and even if I did, it's obvious that she doesn't value our friendship as much as I do. It's gotten to the point that if she makes plans, I already have backup plans because its 99% chance she will not show up.

I know the type you are talking about though. Luckily I dont think I have many friends like that, however I know 2 at work. It's almost like 1-upping. Like "No, I have to be talking. I dont care what its about, but I need to be talking". Its very annoying at work, because during lunch someone can be talking, and then one of these people just starts laughing and starts passing around her phone like 'omg look at this funny thing I found' and totally interupts the other person. Rude.

Yep, awful behavior. Seen that too - very immature.

An acquaintance of mine had lost her dad, and was upset although she didn't really know him as he'd been absent all her life until the end. Anyway, I provided a ton of comfort. Then one day, I had a big problem and started telling her, and she picked up her phone and started scrolling through the messages and laughing at them. It was as if my voice just didn't even register in her head whatsoever.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

Very timely for me. I posted in the Rant of the Day thread about losing a longtime friend over gay marriage of all things. We had been friends for over 30 years and been thru hell and back with each other--illness, love affairs, break ups--so to lose a friend over that just seems so WEIRD. She has been getting more and more religious as her life became difficult--she is caring for a mom with dementia and two brothers who have mental illness--and her worldview has narrowed. I am really sorry to see her go. But on the other hand if she's going to turn into someone so bigoted and narrow minded I guess I'm better off without her.

BUT--last year I lost another friend who refuses to tell me why she stopped talking to me. She's gone thru an awful divorce and employment problems. She moved into our neighborhood--we helped her move, and I was looking forward to having her around for bar b qs and such and she stopped returning my calls refused a letter I sent to her.

I do get along with the wives of friends of Mr. St. Clare, but those two women were long time friends. My husband says our paths have just gone in different directions and I shouldn't take it personally, but I can't help but wondering what the heck happened.
I'm not the most social person, it takes me a while to consider people friend rather than acquaintance.

 

[packrat]

I value friendships. I don't have many friends. I have friends that I spent years with and they moved and we no longer have contact-even tho they have contact w/others here. JD and I were just talking the other day about that person--and he's been JD's friend about as long as mine. JD said "I think that ship has sailed".

But then I have friends that even tho I've not seen them in years, I know if we managed to get together it would be like old times.

I don't make friends easily. I feel about half scared of people most times. I'm a bit of an odd duck and I feel like that freaks people out or something. And I've always had more male than female friends, up until a few years ago, when I started working at the preschool. I consider my lead teacher and another para coworker to be my friends.

Last year when London and I did Les Mis, one of the reasons I did it was to MAKE myself do something that scared me to the point of tears. Being around so many people I didn't know, singing when I can't read music, being on stage for the first time in my life and in front of 300 people every night. My own little social anxiety experiment. I came away from it w/some incredible experiences-and two new female friends! Such a silly thing to be about but..it's just nice. The first time they asked if I wanted to get together for lunch I was like "JD! I just got invited to lunch! I think they want to be my friend!" *such* a dork, I know.

And I have some friends that we were SUPER close...and now we're more "nod the head" when you walk by type.

 

[NOYFB]

Let me be clear that I value the idea of friendship: A mutually supportive and respectful relationship in which both parties have fun together but also give and receive emotional sustenance, free of jealousy and resentment.

Please excuse me while I roll about on the floor clutching my sides.

Throughout my life I've always had a lot of close female friends, there's been a lot of wine-pouring and parsing of boyfriend troubles and many, many conversations deep into the night.

However, that was when I was younger.

Since getting older, friendship seems to have changed. This thread is bouncing off the "Are you happy?" thread where CJ and I were discussing how many people wish only to talk about themselves, permanently. Moving through my forties, I've found that people have become self-involved to a really amazing degree. It wasn't like that in our twenties and thirties. I have had dinners where, as CJ says, the other person talks about themselves the entire evening.

Yesterday, I was with a friend who's had some really bad times and I've been supportive. Finally, when it was my turn to speak, she yells and points over my shoulder "Corgi! I love corgis!" Yeah. I get it. What I'm saying means nothing, unless I'm handing out comfort to you.

I have broken off "friendships" with around five women over the last couple of years because their levels of selfishness were absolutely appalling. One was so bad that she permanently hogged the conversation, and when I tried to talk, do you know what she did? She actually raised her voice. And, if you can believe this, she did this the first time I saw her after my dad died, about which she could have cared less. We no longer speak.

It seems to me that this tsunami of selfishness has appeared in middle age. Most people have not been there for me during my own troubles and only wish to talk about themselves, and friendship always having been important to me, this has caused me to re-think the value of friendship. Do I really need it? If it's so false and flimsy, aren't I better off trying to write that novel or compose that symphony or take a part-time job and earn some money? What's the use of putting any time into friendship if it's all built on sand, as it so frequently seems to be? I could be earning extra money or honing a skill.

You know, I really like to have a glass of wine and a laugh with people, too. But nowadays, everyone's so busy talking about themselves that we don't even get to the jokes and the laughs.

I really think that very few people are enlightened, wise, and kind enough to be a true friend. I also think that there are many people who are fine as long as you are not too successful, but what about if you got really successful? Wonderful home, great clothes, great vacations? I'm not sure how many of them would stick around. Not that I'm about to be successful, but I don't want to waste time on fair-weather friends, either.

But when I was younger, selfish women were never, ever a problem, and now I have great trouble finding friends who aren't a) completely selfish and self-involved, or b) not completely selfish all the time but are clearly struggling to pay you and your life any real attention. Where did this tidal wave of selfishness come from? It's true that everyone I know is dealing with terrible life problems, but I have also dealt with those over the last few years, and I don't think it's turned me into someone who is virtually incapable of realizing that others exist and others have needs.

I realize that we all need people, but I think I'm done with the deep-and-meaningfuls. I think I'd rather just have my community and see people in a group while doing something fun, like taking a course. The older I get, the less store I set by deep friendship, and that is based on experience.

A young friend of mine said she lost two friends when she had her first child, because they wanted kids too and were either single or TTC. They simply were not able to find it in their hearts to be happy for their friend, and they withdrew their friendship because she committed the crime of reproducing when their circumstances didn't permit it. Think about what that says, for a moment. It says, "You are only allowed to be happy when I am happy. If you forge ahead with your life and obtain something that I cannot, then I will withdraw from you my companionship, time, support, and affection." And society says that friendship is a good thing!

I have been very, very hurt by what amounts to rejection of me by people who clearly are not in the least interested in what I have to say, and not even caring much about hiding that fact, I am apparently so unimportant. It's also hard to hold on to your confidence when so many people who are meant to be friends could care less about anything that comes out of your mouth.

I think I might have to institute a policy where I just do not provide any support or comfort to anyone, since that's all anyone ever seems to use me for. I might have to restrict myself to "I'm so sorry, I don't know what to say." Cooing noises, in other words.

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences of friendships as they have aged and serious life stressors such as terminal bereavement, and other issues have come into play. Has life stress had negative impacts on others' abilities to relate, in your experience?

Sorry if this is depressing but I find these "friendships" depressing.

I could have written this post myself, Jambalaya. I've been feeling this way for a while about my "friends" who dominate every.single.conversation. I can't tell you how many times I've left feeling unfulfilled after spending time with these "friends" because all I ever do is listen to their life's laments for hours....and never getting a chance to talk about anything going on in MY life. I feel like I have a "I'm a great listener" sticker pasted on my forehead. And it's not just people I've known for years. I find this selfish phenomena is present in other generations and even in people I've just met. I like to start a conversation by asking people what they do for a living. This conversation should generally lead to this other person asking me what *I* do for a living, thereby giving me a chance to talk. Yet, every time I have done this, NO ONE has ever returned the question and asked me what I do. Ever.

The other thing that has caused me to terminate friendships is the lack of participation in maintaining the friendship. If I'm the one always contacting you and asking you to hang out, and you don't reciprocate, then you're not my friend. If I'm the one that always calls you, and you never call me, you're not my friend.

I could go on and give more examples, but I think you get the idea.

Jambalaya, if you ever wanna hang out and grab a glass of wine let me know! I'd love to sit and chat with you!

 

[Sky56]

I've experienced that also. If they always are talking about themselves and their problems and never ask about your life, they are not my friend. If you reconnect with a close old friend from decades past on Facebook and they say it is great to hear from you but never ask how are you doing, they're not a friend. If they don't show simple courtesy or show interest, they're not a friend. I value friendship deeply but gave up dealing with BS long ago.

 

[sonnyjane]

I think I'm comfortable admitting that I'm not the best friend by traditional standards. When it comes to listening I'm good, people often come to me for brutally honest advice, and if you need a favor, I'll volunteer, but I'm not big on calling to check in, or sending birthday cards, etc. I'm a low maintenance friend and do best with other low maintenance friends. I have many friends that I haven't seen in a decade, but when they have a layover in town or something, we will meet for a drink and it's just like old times. I don't expect anything from my friends so I hope they're comfortable with the same expectations from me. If they aren't, then our friendship will fizzle. When I have a bad day, all I want is to be alone, and frankly I'd bet my friends appreciate me not whining to them lol.

 

[missy]

I value true friendship very much. Life is more special with loved ones around. People you care about and love who love and care about you. Nothing beats a real friend besides a true love that is but there is room in your life for both and good relationships make your life richer and better.

My true friends and I have open, supportive, honest and loving communication and I am lucky in that we listen to and support each other in every way we can. Consequently I don't have too many true friends but the ones I do have I know love me for me as I do them and care about what happens to me as I do them. They are real friends as opposed to acquaintances or casual friends or frenemies.

The people who talk and talk without listening to you or caring about what happens to you and what is going on with you aren't your real friends and I think you know that already. Not your fault in any way but they are not the kind of friends I would want to spend my valuable time with and energy on so my advice is move on and cherish your true friends and stop making time for the people in your life who really don't care about your life.

 

[blackprophet]

Let me be clear that I value the idea of friendship: A mutually supportive and respectful relationship in which both parties have fun together but also give and receive emotional sustenance, free of jealousy and resentment.

I think this is the key part of your post. This is YOUR definition of friendship, most people have different definitions. Whether it is a large difference, or a small difference. (As evidenced by SonnyJane's response)

I think if you are friends with someone for years and something small happens that destroys your friendship, your definition of friendship was never the same in the first place. A seemingly equal playing field was, in fact, not. It sucks and hurts but its the truth, Especially when you give of your heart, and receive nothing in return. They were what I call legacy friends (your close to them because you have known each other a long time, not because of chemistry or loyalty).

I think I can relate from a certain perspective to what you are going through. I am a giver (seems like you are one too). I give and do for my friends without reservation. I go above and beyond. And I struggled with friends that I would get a little or nothing back from. But eventually I came to the realization that, there aren't many who give as much as I do, and most give little as possible. I had to become comfortable with the fact that some of my friends just wont be there when I need them, even though I would be there for them. And that is ok because that is not the role they play in my life. Being a giver means that by the time I come to this realization I have already given a lot. I accept that's just who I am and that this will happen from time to time. For me giving is my own reward.

I as well share your definition of friendship. I've gotten good at recognizing people whose definition of friendship comes closest to mine (never gonna find a perfect match), and limiting or cutting out those that don't. As people come and go in life, I have to constantly repeat this exercise. I have a few close friends that I trust implicitly and love wholeheartedly. But very few of them come even close to sharing my standard of friendship.

 

[House Cat]

I have several very, very good friends. These women are incredible people who have done very admirable things with their lives. I feel privileged to even know them! Even more, I get to call them "best friend" and this fact sends me over the moon! Hearing about their lives, sharing births of babies, weddings, funerals, life!!! is so much richer with these women. Sometimes, I talk their ear off and don't give them a chance to get a word in edgewise. It is probably because I am going through a lot and need extra attention. Other times, they do the same and none of us feel any resentment for giving the other the stage! People have needs and as friends we are there for one another.

There are even periods of time where a friend is going through a rough patch and needs to dominate our time for months. That's ok too. We have all been there.

The thing is, I don't expect my friends to fulfill all of my needs. I enjoy their time. I enjoy their presence. I love spending time with their families. If they mess up, that's ok too...as long as they aren't betraying me or anything. I don't really put my NEEDS onto them. We are raising families right now and we are busy with that. My needs...well, they are mine to manage. My needs are between me and my husband. Even HE can't manage all of my needs.

I mean, I can vent on my girlfriends, but there is very little they can actually DO for me...you know? We can go to the spa for honey dips. We can eat decadent desserts. We can cry together. But the nitty gritty is mine or theirs.

As far as the selfish boundary crossers go, I tossed them in my 20's. Then I went to therapy and learned about my personal and mental space and I learned to like it. Now, I get a sense for those boundary crossing types from a mile away and don't even let them get near me. Why? Well because they drain my energy so fast that I can't even function for days afterward. I need to protect myself from that kind of negativity. I'm too busy trying to love life. I can't have someone trying to steal my sunshine. That stuff is precious.

 

[iLander]

This old thread may be of some interest to you

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/making-friends-as-adults.152330/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/making-friends-as-adults.152330/[/URL]

It's not the same concept as your thread at all, but I found it heartening to know I wasn't the only one having a hard time with friends.

 

[liaerfbv]

I have several very, very good friends. These women are incredible people who have done very admirable things with their lives. I feel privileged to even know them! Even more, I get to call them "best friend" and this fact sends me over the moon! Hearing about their lives, sharing births of babies, weddings, funerals, life!!! is so much richer with these women. Sometimes, I talk their ear off and don't give them a chance to get a word in edgewise. It is probably because I am going through a lot and need extra attention. Other times, they do the same and none of us feel any resentment for giving the other the stage! People have needs and as friends we are there for one another.

There are even periods of time where a friend is going through a rough patch and needs to dominate our time for months. That's ok too. We have all been there.

The thing is, I don't expect my friends to fulfill all of my needs. I enjoy their time. I enjoy their presence. I love spending time with their families. If they mess up, that's ok too...as long as they aren't betraying me or anything. I don't really put my NEEDS onto them. We are raising families right now and we are busy with that. My needs...well, they are mine to manage. My needs are between me and my husband. Even HE can't manage all of my needs.

I mean, I can vent on my girlfriends, but there is very little they can actually DO for me...you know? We can go to the spa for honey dips. We can eat decadent desserts. We can cry together. But the nitty gritty is mine or theirs.

As far as the selfish boundary crossers go, I tossed them in my 20's. Then I went to therapy and learned about my personal and mental space and I learned to like it. Now, I get a sense for those boundary crossing types from a mile away and don't even let them get near me. Why? Well because they drain my energy so fast that I can't even function for days afterward. I need to protect myself from that kind of negativity. I'm too busy trying to love life. I can't have someone trying to steal my sunshine. That stuff is precious.

I 100% agree with this.

And also, House Cat, I want to apologize for being so horrible to you in the baby shower thread. I was very frustrated with other things and your post hit me badly, but I shouldn't have responded the way I did.

 

[iLander]

To address your original issues;

Yeah, people generally just want to have an audience, not a friend.

I've given up. I mostly just chat a social gatherings, I don't bother trying to make friends anymore.

 

[CJ2008]

I think I'm comfortable admitting that I'm not the best friend by traditional standards. When it comes to listening I'm good, people often come to me for brutally honest advice, and if you need a favor, I'll volunteer, but I'm not big on calling to check in, or sending birthday cards, etc. I'm a low maintenance friend and do best with other low maintenance friends. I have many friends that I haven't seen in a decade, but when they have a layover in town or something, we will meet for a drink and it's just like old times. I don't expect anything from my friends so I hope they're comfortable with the same expectations from me. If they aren't, then our friendship will fizzle. When I have a bad day, all I want is to be alone, and frankly I'd bet my friends appreciate me not whining to them lol.

This kind of sounds like me.

I'm a great listener.

Favors...it depends...if you're always asking for them not so much. Or if you take my time for granted...no...

I remember when I was much younger a friend called me and asked me what I was doing - when I said nothing, that I was about to study for an exam - she took that as "nothing, I can drive you around." And for the next hour or two, I forget, it was many years ago - I drove her around trying to help her find a particular set of stockings she wanted to wear on a date. :]

The real problem, of course was my lack of ability to say no...and my fear of confrontation.

I'm not good at chatting on the phone - especially for hours - or even being invited to a million things. I am a loner to the extreme and don't want to see people - except for my DH - that often.

My most dear friend right now - who is extremely easy going and just so smart and I just love her - I see her about every 3 weeks or so, for lunch, or breakfast, sometimes dinner. We often don't talk in between, maybe a quick email here and there.

For me, that's perfect...any more often than that once in a while is OK but all the time would feel like too much for me, even though I really like her.

Sometimes I'm also kind of "dense" - I expect others to be OK and don't think to offer my help if they don't ask for it - I have a regret with this person about that - that I've been kind of trying to make up for ever since. She has never made me feel bad, which is why I love her even more. But *I* know I wasn't there like I should have been. Hopefully one day I'll be able to be there for in other ways that will show her I know I made a mistake on that one.

 

[House Cat]

I have several very, very good friends. These women are incredible people who have done very admirable things with their lives. I feel privileged to even know them! Even more, I get to call them "best friend" and this fact sends me over the moon! Hearing about their lives, sharing births of babies, weddings, funerals, life!!! is so much richer with these women. Sometimes, I talk their ear off and don't give them a chance to get a word in edgewise. It is probably because I am going through a lot and need extra attention. Other times, they do the same and none of us feel any resentment for giving the other the stage! People have needs and as friends we are there for one another.

There are even periods of time where a friend is going through a rough patch and needs to dominate our time for months. That's ok too. We have all been there.

The thing is, I don't expect my friends to fulfill all of my needs. I enjoy their time. I enjoy their presence. I love spending time with their families. If they mess up, that's ok too...as long as they aren't betraying me or anything. I don't really put my NEEDS onto them. We are raising families right now and we are busy with that. My needs...well, they are mine to manage. My needs are between me and my husband. Even HE can't manage all of my needs.

I mean, I can vent on my girlfriends, but there is very little they can actually DO for me...you know? We can go to the spa for honey dips. We can eat decadent desserts. We can cry together. But the nitty gritty is mine or theirs.

As far as the selfish boundary crossers go, I tossed them in my 20's. Then I went to therapy and learned about my personal and mental space and I learned to like it. Now, I get a sense for those boundary crossing types from a mile away and don't even let them get near me. Why? Well because they drain my energy so fast that I can't even function for days afterward. I need to protect myself from that kind of negativity. I'm too busy trying to love life. I can't have someone trying to steal my sunshine. That stuff is precious.

I 100% agree with this.

And also, House Cat, I want to apologize for being so horrible to you in the baby shower thread. I was very frustrated with other things and your post hit me badly, but I shouldn't have responded the way I did.

You were horrible to me? I didn't even see it!

Now I won't go look.

I am sorry that I hurt you! (((Hugs)))

 

[House Cat]

To address your original issues;

Yeah, people generally just want to have an audience, not a friend.

I've given up. I mostly just chat a social gatherings, I don't bother trying to make friends anymore.

Oh man! This makes me sad. You are an exceptional lady! Someone would be blessed to have you for a friend!

 

[House Cat]

Let me be clear that I value the idea of friendship: A mutually supportive and respectful relationship in which both parties have fun together but also give and receive emotional sustenance, free of jealousy and resentment.

I think this is the key part of your post. This is YOUR definition of friendship, most people have different definitions. Whether it is a large difference, or a small difference. (As evidenced by SonnyJane's response)

I think if you are friends with someone for years and something small happens that destroys your friendship, your definition of friendship was never the same in the first place. A seemingly equal playing field was, in fact, not. It sucks and hurts but its the truth, Especially when you give of your heart, and receive nothing in return. They were what I call legacy friends (your close to them because you have known each other a long time, not because of chemistry or loyalty).

I think I can relate from a certain perspective to what you are going through. I am a giver (seems like you are one too). I give and do for my friends without reservation. I go above and beyond. And I struggled with friends that I would get a little or nothing back from. But eventually I came to the realization that, there aren't many who give as much as I do, and most give little as possible. I had to become comfortable with the fact that some of my friends just wont be there when I need them, even though I would be there for them. And that is ok because that is not the role they play in my life. Being a giver means that by the time I come to this realization I have already given a lot. I accept that's just who I am and that this will happen from time to time. For me giving is my own reward.

I as well share your definition of friendship. I've gotten good at recognizing people whose definition of friendship comes closest to mine (never gonna find a perfect match), and limiting or cutting out those that don't. As people come and go in life, I have to constantly repeat this exercise. I have a few close friends that I trust implicitly and love wholeheartedly. But very few of them come even close to sharing my standard of friendship.

The thing about giving...

If you give and you expect something in return, then it wasn't a gift in the first place.

This is very unhealthy behavior that will set you up for disappointment in just about everyone you know because you are basically baiting a trap with your "giving."

I am a giver too, but I have learned to give up my expectations. Al-anon was a lifesaver with this.

 

[Sky56]

You only really need a few close friends, even just one or two is enough, though more is fine. I quit looking for new friends long ago, but have made new friends because I'm open to it. Like love, friendship often appears when you are not looking for it, like making a new friend at an activity or meeting.

 

[zoebartlett]

I haven't read all the replies yet but I wanted to chime in because this is something I've thought a lot about, especially lately. I value friendship greatly, and I've had to learn that not everyone values it the same way. That's been hard, honestly. I love talking with my friends and them on a very regular basis, but I have friends who hate the phone, only communicate through FB or text, and who are always "busy." Yes, I get it, everyone has stuff going on in their lives, but I see friendships as a two way street.

My husband and I don't have kids, and I've had friendships fizzle because of that, I think. Now if you talk to people I was friends with for a time before kids came into the picture, they might deny it, but that's what I believe. Sure, maybe we don't have that experience in common, but everything else about our friendship remained in tact, so why is it that suddenly now we don't talk or see one another? Family comes first and obviously that's how it should be, but I don't think friendships need to end because one person has kids and another doesn't.

My friends are spread throughout several states, so we don't see each other too often. I'd love to make more friends locally, but it's really hard. I've looked into Meetup but none of the activities ever appeal to me. I think I crave having a sense of community around me and I don't really have that right now. I think overall, friendships are established at a younger age, and people generally aren't looking to start new friendships in their 40s.

 

[Jambalaya]

Gah, I really want to continue this discussion but one of my charges has just come out of hospital so there's a lot of care going on here for the next two week including in the night.

just want to say that I was happy with all my friendships till life got hard and then I saw the truth of....quite a few friendships.

 

[TooPatient]

Gah, I really want to continue this discussion but one of my charges has just come out of hospital so there's a lot of care going on here for the next two week including in the night.

just want to say that I was happy with all my friendships till life got hard and then I saw the truth of....quite a few friendships.

Sorry you have so much going on. I hope you get some down time between all of your unpleasant things to just enjoy a little. You deserve good!

I could have written your original post. Sad but true.


I wish you were near me. I would love to have you over for coffee or tea and just chat about anything and everything you have been through and even get around to some jokes.

 

[TooPatient]

One up side...

Since everyone is so busy talking about themselves, no one in the groups we socialize with is even aware that things,are so bad right now. Since they are also very $$$ and status focused we would likely be exclused if anyone knew. As is, we get to show up and hear all about them.

Okay.,is that an up side?
I,told DH that when we get through all this it will be difficult to see any of them as real friends even if they start letting us in more.