dancing fire - watches- is it rust or patina??

[gregchang35]

I have been looking for a watch and one of the pics show what looks like rust around the screw. the vendor then states that it is patina. what do you guys think?

 

[Dancing Fire]

looks like rust to me.how old is the watch?

 

[gregchang35]

they say it is vintage, but no date/ age of watch. iwill ask.

 

[gregchang35]

the date that they came back with is mid century.

They also advised to expect patina for that age. They confirmed that the winding screw is made of steel, so that means rust not patina! unless i have got it wrong with terminology!

 

[Dancing Fire]

the date that they came back with is mid century.

They also advised to expect patina for that age. They confirmed that the winding screw is made of steel, so that means rust not patina! unless i have got it wrong with terminology!

Greg, Wish I can help you with vintage watches. How much are they asking for the watch? any pic of the dial?

 

[gregchang35]

They are asking $6000.
edited for the wrong pic.

 

[kenny]

Rust.

I'd run away screaming from a seller who tries to convince you that's 'patina'.
Goodness knows what else he/she could be lying about or just ignorant of.

I'd happily pay thousands for a used diamond since its authenticity and quality is relatively easy to determine.
I'd NEVER buy a used watch that expensive.
It could have been neglected, and not serviced regularly, or serviced by someone less competent than the watch deserves, or parts and lubricants used may be lower in quality than such a fine movement deserves.
Unless you are yourself a trained and long-experienced watchmaker it all boils down to trust, or psychic ability.

But kudos to DF and anyone who does learn and is able to combine knowledge and trust and buy such an item used.
They save money compared to my way ... which is to buy new from an authorized dealer and entrust service only to the original manufacturer.

 

[Dancing Fire]

They are asking $6000.
edited for the wrong pic.

+ it'll need an overhaul.

 

[gregchang35]

Kenny,

that was my initial thoughts on the rust/ patina issue.

With regards to the cost of the watch = that is the limit on my budget.
I am also on the look out for the vintage rolex 6694 (only second hand available- nothing new as it a vintage watch), which is about $2000-$3000
I am also considering a Cartier Tank solo gold (brand new) about $4000.

there are the others that i like too- Calatrava 5119- but the price tag makes me admire it from afar.
jaeger LeCoultre Squadra or reverso. But, they too are out of price range.

Will keep looking.... though i was hoping to find something while i am USA till the 16th August. But will need to purchase in the next week to be delivered on time for inspection and return, if necessary. Things are cheaper here than AUS. In AUS, we will have to pay taxes on it. So, USA purchases are usually tax free; state dependent, of course.

I will keep searching.

 

[gregchang35]

They are asking $6000.
edited for the wrong pic.

+ it'll need an overhaul.

Ok, thanx... onto the next one....

added: they have just told me that it has been serviced and gets the 2yr warranty. by overhaul - do you mean polishing it as well? i just want to understand the terminology.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Rust.

I'd run away screaming from a seller who tries to convince you that's 'patina'.
Goodness knows what else he/she could be lying about or just ignorant of.

I'd happily pay thousands for a used diamond since its authenticity and quality is relatively easy to determine.
I'd NEVER buy a used watch that expensive.
It could have been neglected, and not serviced regularly, or serviced by someone less competent than the watch deserves, or parts and lubricants used may be lower in quality than such a fine movement deserves.
Unless you are yourself a trained and long-experienced watchmaker it all boils down to trust, or psychic ability.

But kudos to DF and anyone who does learn and is able to combine knowledge and trust and buy such an item used.
They save money compared to my way ... which is to buy new from an authorized dealer and entrust service only to the original manufacturer.

IMO,the best deals are those 3-5 yrs old "never been serviced" watches b/c you can save $$$, and when it is time for a service I can send it to an authorized service center. That way I know the history of the watch.

 

[gregchang35]

IMO,the best deals are those 3-5 yrs old "never been serviced" watches b/c you can save $$$, and when it is time for a service I can send it to an authorized service center. That way I know the history of the watch.

Thanx for the tip, DF! new vigoured re-searching!

 

[kenny]

Rust.

I'd run away screaming from a seller who tries to convince you that's 'patina'.
Goodness knows what else he/she could be lying about or just ignorant of.

I'd happily pay thousands for a used diamond since its authenticity and quality is relatively easy to determine.
I'd NEVER buy a used watch that expensive.
It could have been neglected, and not serviced regularly, or serviced by someone less competent than the watch deserves, or parts and lubricants used may be lower in quality than such a fine movement deserves.
Unless you are yourself a trained and long-experienced watchmaker it all boils down to trust, or psychic ability.

But kudos to DF and anyone who does learn and is able to combine knowledge and trust and buy such an item used.
They save money compared to my way ... which is to buy new from an authorized dealer and entrust service only to the original manufacturer.

IMO,the best deals are those 3-5 yrs old "never been serviced" watches b/c you can save $$$, and when it is time for a service I can send it to an authorized service center. That way I know the history of the watch.

... you don't know the history of the watch.
You believe you do because you believe the seller.
I'm not so trusting when zillions of bucks are at stake.

IMO you are not saving $$$.
You are just buying something that is worth less.

New from an authorized dealer means something.
To me it means a lot.
It means zero risk of getting ripped off buying a used watch that may have experienced abuse.

Even if you trust the seller and believe the used watch to be pristine, that doesn't mean the watch wasn't subjected to some stress.

My emphasis is that people vary.
Not all of us are willing to risk thousands, or tens of thousands, on trust.
YMMV.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="kenny|1375297800|
... you don't know the history of the watch.
You believe you do because you believe the seller.
I'm not so trusting when zillions of bucks are at stake.

IMO you are not saving $$$.
You are just buying something that is worth less.

New from an authorized dealer means something.
To me it means a lot.
It means zero risk of getting ripped off buying a used watch that may have experienced abuse.

Even if you trust the seller and believe the used watch to be pristine, that doesn't mean the watch wasn't subjected to some stress.

My emphasis is that people vary.
Not all of us are willing to risk thousands, or tens of thousands, on trust.
YMMV.[/quote]


Kenny
most people will not abuse an expensive watch thus the reason I like buying a (never serviced/unopened) 3-5 yrs old watch .I will send it to an authorized service center for its first overhaul. I have nothing against buying a brand new watch from an AD, in fact my last purchase was brand new from a Patek Philippe AD.

 

[kenny]

"Kenny most people will not abuse an expensive watch thus the reason I like buying a (never serviced/unopened) 3-5 yrs old watch."

No problem.
"Most" is good enough for you.
Not good enough for me.
I'd worry the watch was dropped or something and the seller did not disclose that.
People vary.

You and I are both perfect as we are.
There is no true, single, right way that everyone must conform to.

What I object to is your implication that buying a almost new watch is right for everyone since "you save money" ... as if a slight used watch were identical to a new one, just cheaper.
Not so.
Each new and slightly used watch cost exactly what they are worth.
New is worth more than slightly used.

There is nothing wrong in the way you like buying watches and nothing wrong with buying new from an authorized dealer.
Each is perfect for a different kind of person.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Kenny,

that was my initial thoughts on the rust/ patina issue.

With regards to the cost of the watch = that is the limit on my budget.
I am also on the look out for the vintage rolex 6694 (only second hand available- nothing new as it a vintage watch), which is about $2000-$3000

In the late 70's my friend bought a 6694 in HK for $380 USD. The watch still keeping Ex time today.

 

[gregchang35]

You teasing me DF??? Hehe!

 

[Dancing Fire]

You teasing me DF??? Hehe!

I think you can buy a very nice 6694 for under $2k.

 

[kenny]

Kill me for the threadjack, but I just ran into this Rolex dial I had to share.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Congrats Kenny! that watch is so you

 

[kenny]

Apparently they are for real ... http://www.ablogtowatch.com/rolex-oyster-date-mickey-mouse-watch-available-on-james-list/

 

[pregcurious]

You can post on timezone. It's the PS for watch people.

 

[blondie~]

I'm a bit of a watch girl. I'm no expert though. Patina? To me, that looks like rust.

I certainly would consider a used Swiss watch from an authorized dealer. If that dealer has expertise selling, repairing vintage watches, I'd consider this too. But I tend to build long term relationships with my jewellers. Trust means a lot with me.

I've a question. What makes this Swiss gold mid century watch a 6K timepiece? And what makes it special to you?

 

[gregchang35]

Its a Vacheron Constantin... one of the big 4 in watches. the mid century is of no consequence.. its the look of the watch. funnily enough, there are other vintage watches that i like- the look grabs me. there are now others that i have been looking at on ebay and, i have let this one go.

 

[MollyMalone]

Virtually all my watches are vintage ones (1927-1980), greg, so I don't think it's at all bizarre that you're eyeballing them. In addition to the TimeZone forums that pregcurious referred you to, I like WatchUSeek. Wishing you much fun and good fortune on your quests!


P.S. here's a blog post of a vintage Rolex 6694 teardown so you can see what a genuine movement looks like:
http://watchguy.co.uk/teardown-rolex-oysterdate-precision-6694/

 

[gregchang35]

Virtually all my watches are vintage ones (1927-1980), greg, so I don't think it's at all bizarre that you're eyeballing them. In addition to the TimeZone forums that pregcurious referred you to, I like WatchUSeek. Wishing you much fun and good fortune on your quests!


P.S. here's a blog post of a vintage Rolex 6694 teardown so you can see what a genuine movement looks like:
http://watchguy.co.uk/teardown-rolex-oysterdate-precision-6694/

thanx for the links- much appreciated. now how many vintage watches would be considered too many???? lol

 

[blondie~]

I love what you picked out btw Greg. It is sleek, classic.

 

[blondie~]

Kenny, you :crack: me up! I'd so love to wear a Mickey Mouse MOP diamond encrusted watch.

 

[MollyMalone]

I just saw that you edited your earlier post, greg, to add that you'd like to buy a watch during the short time you have left here in the States. Which makes me even more nervous on your behalf. I understand why you feel "under the gun", but please don't be tempted by random eBay listings. Given your very tight time constraints, the fact that you are interested in, e.g., one of Cartier's often-faked (or Frankensteined) Tanks, and your newbie status with all this (someone with greater experience would appreciate that the vendor of the watch you posted is not knowledgeable himself since the best he could say re date is that it's "mid-century"), I'll urge you to consider only offerings from very established, very reputable dealers before seeking feedback from others.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

 

[gregchang35]

Hi Molly,

Thanks for your support.
i have been looking for a while, and i only wanted to pull the trigger while i was here. nothing came up till i was here in the US; as murphy law goes nothing happens till the last minute. but i have been and still am keeping eyes on ebay, time zone and chrono24...


it may never happen till i return home to AUS... So be it.

But that is ok...