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Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Amber St. Clare

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Probation and community service. What do you think?
 

ame

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Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself. All this sentence does is make it clear to the public that discrimination, violation of privacy, and bullying someone you don't like or don't like the orientation of is ok and will really only be a slap on the wrist. It's just like that Megan Meier thing that happened here, where an ADULT created a facebook page for an imaginary boy to taunt and torment a CHILD her daughter was "friends" with. That woman got away with it too.

It sounds like the prosecution is appealing because it's not in line with the mandatory sentencing guidelines for the crimes he's convicted of. I liked that he was told off by I believe the judge in going on about how all these jurors called him guilty so many times and he's yet to apologize or take responsibility for his actions at all or even believe he did anything wrong.
 

Kaleigh

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Oh hell no. He deserves much more time than that.. I just can't stand people getting away with this kind of stuff. No wonder bullying is epidemic, there are no consequences... :blackeye:
 

movie zombie

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he's also paying $10k for something....
30-days time is better than no time....if he has to do that time with the general criminal population in a real jail.
he has probation and has to go to counseling....although we all know that unless he sees what he has done as wrong it won't change anything.
his lack of apology public and private to the family should have been rectified by court order.
also, he is not a citizen of this country and i think should be deported and not allowed to reside here. pretty much what we do with others convicted of crimes who are not US citizens.
 

amc80

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ame|1337640795|3200494 said:
Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.

Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.
 

innerkitten

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Good point MZ. Why isn't he getting deported? I agree that some time is better than none, but 30 days is too short :-/
 

Kaleigh

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I hope you don't get flamed. My thing is that he has no remorse and videos were shown to embarrass his roomate Did he know his roomate would commit suicide, I think not. But the lack of remorse shows me, a lot....
 

Amber St. Clare

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I just wanted to slap the smug right off his face. And gag his mom.
 

Kaleigh

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I hope he does get deported. I hate what he did, and 30 days?? Really?? That says to all the dumb asses out there, go do it, you won't get punished. It's ok to humiliate and hate on someone because they are gay. The suicide rate of Gay teenagers is through the roof. I know , this is very personal to me... My god son tried to take his life because he is gay.
 

rainwood

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It's hard to know what the right sentence is in this case. I read the extended New Yorker piece about what happened and the situation was a bit more complicated than most of the news stories I read made it out to be. What Ravi did was terrible (although somewhat different than what most news reports said), but the victim also had a difficult home life (lack of support or approval from very religious parents and some anxiety/depression issues if I remember correctly) that may have factored in to his choosing suicide. We'll never know for sure. My guess is that Ravi's life is ruined regardless of the sentence, which is the bigger punishment anyway.
 

aljdewey

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amc80|1337642761|3200513 said:
ame|1337640795|3200494 said:
Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.

Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

Seriously? How can you even sit in judgment on the state of mind of the young man who took his life? Do you know what his life had been like up to that point? Is it conceivable to you at all that his state of mind may have been years in the making....that he's probably been hassled about his orientation prior to this?

This kid was put into a situation where he had ZERO personal privacy. He was so upset about it that he begged for relief from the school administration, who did positively nothing to help him. Wouldn't help him, wouldn't move him, nothing. Sorry, kid - suck it up. How in the world can you possibly know how hopeless he may have felt in those moments?

Would you be saying the same thing if it was your son being targeted? Would you be saying the same if it was your son who felt such hopeless despair that he ended his life? Somehow, I don't think so.

For me, it's super hard to buy the "oh, I didn't know it would end in that" - how many kids over the past couple years have taken their lives in despair over being bullied because they're gay? Seems like I"m reading something about it every week or two; it's not news anymore. But even if he didn't foresee it, couldn't predict it, he fully did intend to humiliate and shame him. He did fully intend to make that young kid a spectacle and target of ridicule, so I'm having a real tough time feeling sympathy for him. He's breathing. He's here to hear his mother sob. Tyler isn't.

If disagreeing with you can only be categorized at flaming, then I guess I'm first in line to flame because I don't agree at all that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.
 

Kaleigh

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aljdewey|1337645305|3200533 said:
amc80|1337642761|3200513 said:
ame|1337640795|3200494 said:
Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.

Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

Seriously? How can you even sit in judgment on the state of mind of the young man who took his life? Do you know what his life had been like up to that point? Is it conceivable to you at all that his state of mind may have been years in the making....that he's probably been hassled about his orientation prior to this?

This kid was put into a situation where he had ZERO personal privacy. He was so upset about it that he begged for relief from the school administration, who did positively nothing to help him. Wouldn't help him, wouldn't move him, nothing. Sorry, kid - suck it up. How in the world can you possibly know how hopeless he may have felt in those moments?

Would you be saying the same thing if it was your son being targeted? Would you be saying the same if it was your son who felt such hopeless despair that he ended his life? Somehow, I don't think so.

For me, it's super hard to buy the "oh, I didn't know it would end in that" - how many kids over the past couple years have taken their lives in despair over being bullied because they're gay? Seems like I"m reading something about it every week or two; it's not news anymore. But even if he didn't foresee it, couldn't predict it, he fully did intend to humiliate and shame him. He did fully intend to make that young kid a spectacle and target of ridicule, so I'm having a real tough time feeling sympathy for him. He's breathing. He's here to hear his mother sob. Tyler isn't.

If disagreeing with you can only be categorized at flaming, then I guess I'm first in line to flame because I don't agree at all that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.


THIS.
 

Maria D

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rainwood|1337645011|3200531 said:
It's hard to know what the right sentence is in this case. I read the extended New Yorker piece about what happened and the situation was a bit more complicated than most of the news stories I read made it out to be. What Ravi did was terrible (although somewhat different than what most news reports said), but the victim also had a difficult home life (lack of support or approval from very religious parents and some anxiety/depression issues if I remember correctly) that may have factored in to his choosing suicide. We'll never know for sure. My guess is that Ravi's life is ruined regardless of the sentence, which is the bigger punishment anyway.


I read that article and came away with the same thoughts rainwood.

Also, looking back at the timeline of events, there was not a longterm pattern of bullying and harassment; things happened very quickly. I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that Ravi drove Clementi to suicide. The school did not have time to react to Clementi's room change request as it came the day before he ended his life. Clementi had come out to his family less than a month prior to committing suicide and told a friend that his father was accepting but his mother dismissive. While I am so saddened that this poor young man was overcome with the stresses of his life and infuriated that Ravi compounded the problem, I don't think Ravi can be blamed for his suicide.
 

Kaleigh

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I also wish I could channel my brother to let you all know what he went through. He was tormented and teased to no end. He would tell you how hard it was for him. He was disowned by my family. I hated every thing he had to go through.

At the end of the day, I know I was there for him, and did everything I could for him. I was there when no one else was. It's a blessing and a curse. I have such pain, because of what he went through, much like survivors guilt.
 

Circe

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I do find it vaguely ironic to see this thread right underneath the one about a college student being fined 665K (no, that is not a typo) for downloading 22 songs illegally.

One song = 30K

One human = 10K

Hm.

That said, I think AMC80 is right, and shouldn't be flamed - there was no way to predict Tyler Clementi's suicide. It can't be tried as murder or manslaughter. But the violation of his privacy? His subsequent humiliation and mental anguish? Oh, yeah. I think this should have been prosecuted as a sex crime.

The problem is that the law isn't keeping up with all of this new-fangled technology: Ravi couldn't be tried appropriately, any more than the various creepos who've filmed women undressing in changing rooms or hidden cameras in their stalking victims apartments.

I mean, the law isn't keeping up with technology when it comes to people. Corporate profit is a different matter!

Ah, priorities. :nono:
 

Maria D

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aljdewey|1337645305|3200533 said:
This kid was put into a situation where he had ZERO personal privacy. He was so upset about it that he begged for relief from the school administration, who did positively nothing to help him. Wouldn't help him, wouldn't move him, nothing. Sorry, kid - suck it up. How in the world can you possibly know how hopeless he may have felt in those moments?

Where is this information coming from? Clementi first spoke to his resident adviser on the evening of 9/21 and took his life on 9/22. The school admin did not have time to act.
 

missy

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IMO Ravi showed depraved indifference to the Clementi's personal well being and while Ravi may not have been able to predict the outcome he should still be held responsible. He is a big bully and time and again it has been shown how detrimental bullying can be and often is to the individual being bullied. Ravi is guilty of being a heartless bastard in my book and yes, he should be punished. People need to be held accountable for their actions. I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing him deported after serving his (too short) sentence.

Kaleigh I am so sorry about your brother.
 

makemepretty

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I think he should have been punished for invasion of privacy, public humiliation, bullying etc.(I'm not sure his exact charges) I think it should have been harsher than he received but not the max. I think what he did was horrible but I do agree with the other poster that he should not be held responsible for the victim committing suicide. This is not an adult/child situation. Taking your life as an adult is a choice, no matter what happens. It is no one's choice but your own. Many people have been victimized, physically...emotionally...at any age. Has anyone's life been emotionally pain free?

I've had suicide talks with my teens. I had one with my younger sister when she was a teen. I make sure that loved ones know that no matter what happens in their life, there are more days to come and pain eases but NOT if you kill yourself. Did this young man's parents never have the talk with him or instill in him that it was ok to be himself? Many teens are gay, what was going on with him that he was that ashamed he felt he had to take his own life?

I probably have a different outlook because I've dealt with someone who has attempted to take their life, that's why I know to have talks with teens and I also know that you are not responsible for someone taking their life. The guilt the parents have to be feeling is something I wish I could take away though. To be them, would be unimaginable, I would think their guilt would go beyond what Dahrun will ever feel.
 

packrat

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I know there's no way to predict how someone will react to teasing/bullying/being made a target of ridicule but..how about..BE F-ING NICE TO PEOPLE? Then guess what? You don't have to say oh shit dude, I didn't mean it. Because maaaaybe next time the one being teased/bullied/being made the target of ridicule will take it out on the person DOING IT instead. GAWD. If I found out my kid did that crap to another kid I'd box his fecking ears. And if some kid was doing that to my kid, I'd box his fecking parents ears. Idiot parents raising idiot kids. It's not about how someone reacts to something like that, it shouldn't happen in the first place. If you poke 10 different dogs in the face w/a stick, maybe only one bites you. Do you NEED to poke the dogs in the face w/a stick to know that there's a possibility that you may get bit?
 

lulu

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I don't take issue with the sentence, but it really bothers me that this guy is completely remorseless and unapologetic. I wanted to smack him. He just doesn't get it.
 

Novel

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packrat|1337649296|3200592 said:
I know there's no way to predict how someone will react to teasing/bullying/being made a target of ridicule but..how about..BE F-ING NICE TO PEOPLE? Then guess what? You don't have to say oh shit dude, I didn't mean it. Because maaaaybe next time the one being teased/bullied/being made the target of ridicule will take it out on the person DOING IT instead. GAWD. If I found out my kid did that crap to another kid I'd box his fecking ears. And if some kid was doing that to my kid, I'd box his fecking parents ears. Idiot parents raising idiot kids. It's not about how someone reacts to something like that, it shouldn't happen in the first place. If you poke 10 different dogs in the face w/a stick, maybe only one bites you. Do you NEED to poke the dogs in the face w/a stick to know that there's a possibility that you may get bit?

This. I don't blame Ravi for Clementi's response, but that doesn't make him not somehow linked to that response. What he did was cruel, period. And I've read the New Yorker piece, too. There is a lot going on here, a lot of teenage angst and image and fear, but the fact that this kid seems to still value his image so much that he can't even apologize is what really gets to me. He may not have intended to kill someone, but he seems to never have had any thought for someone else's privacy or feelings. The way he used the internet as a way to publicly gossip in the past is chilling. What he did was terrible, regardless of the fact that it drove someone to kill themselves. And since it did, since he lived with this kid and could have been known - if he had been aware of anyone else - how much distress he was in, it is significantly worse.

ETA: The New Yorker piece does say that Ravi was good to him about his shyness, so my thought about him being completely unaware of his roommate's needs is a bit off. But somehow, the fact that Ravi understood he was shy but not what kind of impact something like this could have, is even stranger to me.
 

iheartscience

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Maria D|1337646994|3200549 said:
rainwood|1337645011|3200531 said:
It's hard to know what the right sentence is in this case. I read the extended New Yorker piece about what happened and the situation was a bit more complicated than most of the news stories I read made it out to be. What Ravi did was terrible (although somewhat different than what most news reports said), but the victim also had a difficult home life (lack of support or approval from very religious parents and some anxiety/depression issues if I remember correctly) that may have factored in to his choosing suicide. We'll never know for sure. My guess is that Ravi's life is ruined regardless of the sentence, which is the bigger punishment anyway.


I read that article and came away with the same thoughts rainwood.

Also, looking back at the timeline of events, there was not a longterm pattern of bullying and harassment; things happened very quickly. I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that Ravi drove Clementi to suicide. The school did not have time to react to Clementi's room change request as it came the day before he ended his life. Clementi had come out to his family less than a month prior to committing suicide and told a friend that his father was accepting but his mother dismissive. While I am so saddened that this poor young man was overcome with the stresses of his life and infuriated that Ravi compounded the problem, I don't think Ravi can be blamed for his suicide.

Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.
 

innerkitten

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Kaleigh|1337647033|3200550 said:
I also wish I could channel my brother to let you all know what he went through. He was tormented and teased to no end. He would tell you how hard it was for him. He was disowned by my family. I hated every thing he had to go through.

At the end of the day, I know I was there for him, and did everything I could for him. I was there when no one else was. It's a blessing and a curse. I have such pain, because of what he went through, much like survivors guilt.

OT: That happened to a good friend of mine. When he told his parents he was gay they turned their backs on him. He's only recently had some contact with his mother after many years.

I'm sorry about your brother.
 

Imdanny

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amc80|1337642761|3200513 said:
ame|1337640795|3200494 said:
Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.

Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

"the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be"? You apparently have no knowledge of what you're talking about. Victims of bullying commit suicide all the time.
 

Kaleigh

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innerkitten|1337653445|3200658 said:
Kaleigh|1337647033|3200550 said:
I also wish I could channel my brother to let you all know what he went through. He was tormented and teased to no end. He would tell you how hard it was for him. He was disowned by my family. I hated every thing he had to go through.

At the end of the day, I know I was there for him, and did everything I could for him. I was there when no one else was. It's a blessing and a curse. I have such pain, because of what he went through, much like survivors guilt.

OT: That happened to a good friend of mine. When he told his parents he was gay they turned their backs on him. He's only recently had some contact with his mother after many years.

I'm sorry about your brother.

Thank you. I have missed chatting with you. Hope all is well with you and your family. Your daughter is soooo pretty. :wavey:
 

mrs jam

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The sentence is a slap in the face to Clementi's family. If that young man had been a little brother or other loved one of mine, I would not be able to sleep at night until his tormentor was thrown bodily off the nearest bridge. What a piece of human garbage. I hope this haunts him and destroys the rest of his hopefully short, miserable life.
 

Imdanny

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Amber St. Clare|1337633467|3200421 said:
Probation and community service. What do you think?

I think what he did is vile. It's basically like blackmail but without the making a demand part- he moved directly to the "outing" stage, just for the fun of it, and he's shown no remorse. He seems like a sociopath to me.

Anyone who thinks that filming people and putting it on the internet wouldn't cause a basically closeted young gay man extreme emotional distress doesn't understand the seriousness of what happened here. This young man was targeted because he was gay and intentionally shamed in front of the entire world. This goes well beyond something like "teasing" and into the realm of downright criminal.

I don't know what I think about the convictions and sentencing because I haven't researched this yet, what he was charged with, what he was convicted of, what the usual sentences are, whether there were mandatory guidelines, etc.
 

aljdewey

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thing2of2|1337652986|3200652 said:
Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.

It's funny how we can read the same thing and end up in such different places on this.

I hadn't read this one, but when I did, I got out of it: He mocked him for being poor, and he harassed him because he was gay. He fully intended to humiliate Tyler by outing him to others publicly. Then, when he realized Tyler had reported him spying on webcam (which could result in his own expulsion), he began trying to 'clean it up' by being nice to his face (while continuing to trash him behind his back) and then began sanitizing his Twitter and other public postings about it.

Far from my idea of a model citizen, and this even further solidifies my opinion that the justice was barely a slap.
 
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