Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

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Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by movie zombie » May 21st, 2012, 9:48 pm
iLander, you left out 'arrogant'..........if he didn't want to room with a poor gay male student, he could have asked to have a change of roomates. he didn't. instead he chose....yes, chose....to be impolite, invade the privacy of another, and then claim he had no bad intentions. yes, i think Arrogant is the word you left out, iLander. he should be deported. he is an arrogant criminal and nothing more.
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Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by mrs jam » May 21st, 2012, 10:13 pm
Sadly, I feel like I have become desensitized to a large degree to all the horrible things being reported and discussed in the news. Just watching our local news feels like I'm being assaulted on a nightly basis, so I admittedly just tune a lot of stuff out so I can have some room left for happy thoughts and chase away the unsettling feeling that the human race is a disgrace. But this story just wrenched my guts. My heart aches for what that young man went through, and I just am struck with the overwhelming, futile feeling of wishing time could be turned backward.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Laila619 » May 21st, 2012, 11:04 pm
Written by packrat » May 21st, 2012, 7:14 pm:I know there's no way to predict how someone will react to teasing/bullying/being made a target of ridicule but..how about..BE F-ING NICE TO PEOPLE? Then guess what? You don't have to say oh shit dude, I didn't mean it. Because maaaaybe next time the one being teased/bullied/being made the target of ridicule will take it out on the person DOING IT instead. GAWD. If I found out my kid did that crap to another kid I'd box his fecking ears. And if some kid was doing that to my kid, I'd box his fecking parents ears. Idiot parents raising idiot kids. It's not about how someone reacts to something like that, it shouldn't happen in the first place. If you poke 10 different dogs in the face w/a stick, maybe only one bites you. Do you NEED to poke the dogs in the face w/a stick to know that there's a possibility that you may get bit?


Great post. I wish more parents would think like you.

This Ravi kid is beyond cruel, and you have to wonder how in the hell his parents raised him.

No longer wasting money on rings or resets.



Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by movie zombie » May 21st, 2012, 11:28 pm
[quote="Laila619|1337663080|3200724] This Ravi kid is beyond cruel, and you have to wonder how in the hell his parents raised him.[/quote]

arrogance doesn't fall far from the tree.....
 /\_/\
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__________________
"I don't feel enjoyment watching films that evoke passivity. If you need that kind of comfort, I don't understand why you wouldn't go to a spa." Chan-wook Park
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Madam Bijoux » May 22nd, 2012, 6:34 am
That scumbag should have gotten 30 years and then deportation. His act was the last straw that drove the young man to suicide, regardless of whatever else was going on in his life.
"I never met a diamond I didn't like."
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Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:49 am
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:
Written by thing2of2 » May 21st, 2012, 8:16 pm:
Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.


It's funny how we can read the same thing and end up in such different places on this.

I hadn't read this one, but when I did, I got out of it: He mocked him for being poor, and he harassed him because he was gay. He fully intended to humiliate Tyler by outing him to others publicly. Then, when he realized Tyler had reported him spying on webcam (which could result in his own expulsion), he began trying to 'clean it up' by being nice to his face (while continuing to trash him behind his back) and then began sanitizing his Twitter and other public postings about it.

Far from my idea of a model citizen, and this even further solidifies my opinion that the justice was barely a slap.


I certainly don't think the kid is a model citizen, and I don't think my post implied that in any way. It is interesting we can end up in such different places, though. When I first heard about the case and read about it, I felt the same way you did. The New Yorker piece introduced more grey area. I'm too lazy to read it again, but the impression I got when I read it the first time was that Ravi was an arrogant prick, but he didn't seem particularly vicious.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by missy » May 22nd, 2012, 7:32 am
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:49 am:
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:
Written by thing2of2 » May 21st, 2012, 8:16 pm:
Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.


It's funny how we can read the same thing and end up in such different places on this.

I hadn't read this one, but when I did, I got out of it: He mocked him for being poor, and he harassed him because he was gay. He fully intended to humiliate Tyler by outing him to others publicly. Then, when he realized Tyler had reported him spying on webcam (which could result in his own expulsion), he began trying to 'clean it up' by being nice to his face (while continuing to trash him behind his back) and then began sanitizing his Twitter and other public postings about it.

Far from my idea of a model citizen, and this even further solidifies my opinion that the justice was barely a slap.


I certainly don't think the kid is a model citizen, and I don't think my post implied that in any way. It is interesting we can end up in such different places, though. When I first heard about the case and read about it, I felt the same way you did. The New Yorker piece introduced more grey area. I'm too lazy to read it again, but the impression I got when I read it the first time was that Ravi was an arrogant prick, but he didn't seem particularly vicious.



Secretly videotaping someone having sex for the purpose of humiliating him and making him feel terrible seems pretty vicious to me...
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by justginger » May 22nd, 2012, 7:48 am
I am out of touch with American news stories - this is the first I've heard about it.

It INFURIATES me that people of such an age still get their kicks from the relentless bullying and teasing of a peer. I mean, this is middle school-level torture and gossip, but with new technology and social media added in, to make it even more devastating to the victim. That being said, it's a hard call for me, in terms of deciding an appropriate punishment. People who choose suicide must have some degree of ownership of that decision. This Ravi man can't be treated as if he personally threw his roommate off a bridge. But 30 days? That's a joke. I'm glad it wasn't my sentence to decide, but if it had been, it would have certainly be longer than a MONTH and less than the cost of a (cheap) new car.

Also...how can this young man be deported? The article states he "grew up" in NJ. Is he not an American citizen?
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by ame » May 22nd, 2012, 8:14 am
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:
Written by thing2of2 » May 21st, 2012, 8:16 pm:
Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.


It's funny how we can read the same thing and end up in such different places on this.

I hadn't read this one, but when I did, I got out of it: He mocked him for being poor, and he harassed him because he was gay. He fully intended to humiliate Tyler by outing him to others publicly. Then, when he realized Tyler had reported him spying on webcam (which could result in his own expulsion), he began trying to 'clean it up' by being nice to his face (while continuing to trash him behind his back) and then began sanitizing his Twitter and other public postings about it.

Far from my idea of a model citizen, and this even further solidifies my opinion that the justice was barely a slap.

This says everything I would say, just more eloquently. And with no expletives.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 8:25 am
Written by missy » May 22nd, 2012, 7:32 am:
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:49 am:
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:
Written by thing2of2 » May 21st, 2012, 8:16 pm:
Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.


It's funny how we can read the same thing and end up in such different places on this.

I hadn't read this one, but when I did, I got out of it: He mocked him for being poor, and he harassed him because he was gay. He fully intended to humiliate Tyler by outing him to others publicly. Then, when he realized Tyler had reported him spying on webcam (which could result in his own expulsion), he began trying to 'clean it up' by being nice to his face (while continuing to trash him behind his back) and then began sanitizing his Twitter and other public postings about it.

Far from my idea of a model citizen, and this even further solidifies my opinion that the justice was barely a slap.


I certainly don't think the kid is a model citizen, and I don't think my post implied that in any way. It is interesting we can end up in such different places, though. When I first heard about the case and read about it, I felt the same way you did. The New Yorker piece introduced more grey area. I'm too lazy to read it again, but the impression I got when I read it the first time was that Ravi was an arrogant prick, but he didn't seem particularly vicious.


Secretly videotaping someone having sex for the purpose of humiliating him and making him feel terrible seems pretty vicious to me...


But how do you know Ravi did it specifically to humiliate him and make him feel terrible? That would be vicious, but from the article, it didn't seem that that was Ravi's intent.

Listen, I'm certainly not defending the guy's behavior. But he didn't relentlessly bully Tyler Clementi. Until the videotaping incident, Ravi really just talked about him behind his back.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by ksinger » May 22nd, 2012, 8:45 am
I haven't followed this case much at all, but I did read this piece this morning. Another perspective to add to this discussion I guess.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/05/dharun_ravi_received_a_light_sentence_for_spying_on_tyler_clementi_.html

"Ebenzer Scrooge, the sins of man are huge! A neverending symphony of villainy and infamy, duplicity, deceit, and subterfuge. And no one's worse than Ebenezer Scrooge!"

Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by packrat » May 22nd, 2012, 9:03 am
iLander, that's one of my favorite episodes of Will & Grace! Elton John is a hoot.

There's also an episode where Jack filmed Grace in the shower b/c she was free and uninhibited, to send the video to Leo. Now..I'm pretty sure Ravi didn't film Tyler to "help him out", give him pointers or to say "hey dude, let's be friends" or that he read a chapter in How to Win Friends and Influence People on secretly filming them having sex and mocking them for it. That's not really a time you can say "awww I's jus' funnin wit cha", and no harm done. This is a little bit different than a plastic spider on a pillow. Every person on the face of the earth has limits to what they can take/handle. Must we poke and prod and nudge and push every. single. person. to find their breaking point? And not everyone's breaking point reaction will be the same. Some will lash back at the person/persons, some will lash out at themselves. It's not rocket science-kids at like FIVE can understand it's not nice to tease someone. And I'm pretty sure by the time you're in college you don't need someone to say hey, play nice. Even if you grew up w/parents who never told you to not tease/bully/ridicule, you still know it's wrong. Do I think the guy should be drug out in the back alley and shot, no. But I don't think there should be an onus on the victim in the situation that he could've handled it better, he could've waited, he coulda shoulda woulda a lot of things. It's not like Ravi left the cap off the toothpaste and Tyler just flew out of control and everything in his life up to that point collapsed and he couldn't handle it so he killed himself.

Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by amc80 » May 22nd, 2012, 9:46 am
Written by Imdanny » May 21st, 2012, 8:26 pm:
Written by amc80 » May 21st, 2012, 5:26 pm:
Written by ame » May 21st, 2012, 4:53 pm:Not anywhere near harsh enough. He caused someone such grave emotional distress that the victim killed himself.


Do you consider the victim's reaction to be proportional and appropriate to the crime? Sorry, but I don't. I don't think people should be held responsible for the end result when the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be. If I tease or harass someone for whatever reason and they feel the need to commit suicide, obviously there were MUCH bigger issues going on in that person's head.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.


"the end result is so outside the realm of what a predicted response would be"? You apparently have no knowledge of what you're talking about. Victims of bullying commit suicide all the time.


Sorry, but I don't consider suicide to be a normal response to bullying or teasing. I don' really consider suicide to be a normal reaction to anything. If that's someone's chosen reaction, then there are way bigger issues going on. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this guy is a jerk and a little public remorse would be nice. But I don't think he's liable for someone committing suicide.

Written by packrat:I know there's no way to predict how someone will react to teasing/bullying/being made a target of ridicule but..how about..BE F-ING NICE TO PEOPLE? Then guess what? You don't have to say oh shit dude, I didn't mean it.


This, exactly. Do I think he's liable? No. But yeah, be nice to others. Aren't we all taught that in kindergarten? If you don't agree with someone's lifestyle or just generally don't like them, be polite and move on.Way too much energy is spent being mean.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by aljdewey » May 22nd, 2012, 10:50 am
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:49 am:
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:I'm too lazy to read it again, but the impression I got when I read it the first time was that Ravi was an arrogant prick, but he didn't seem particularly vicious.


I guess it depends one's personal definition of vicious.

For me, bullying is vicious. Publicly mocking and humiliating someone else is vicious - it's ridiculing for sport at someone else's pain and expense. Doing it on the internet so you can reach the widest audience possible - even moreso. I don't see how that behavior can be viewed as anything but vicious.
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Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Maisie » May 22nd, 2012, 11:01 am
There are obviously sentencing guidelines in place and if this person wasn't accused and convicted of murder or manslaughter then he couldn't be sentenced to 30 years or life or whatever.

They must have decided to charge him with a crime they knew they would get a conviction for. If they had accused him of murder etc they weren't sure of a conviction.


 

Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by movie zombie » May 22nd, 2012, 11:03 am
Written by justginger » May 22nd, 2012, 7:48 am:I....Also...how can this young man be deported? The article states he "grew up" in NJ. Is he not an American citizen?



no, he is not a US citizen. he arrived with his parents in the US when he was 4 or 5 years old. he is an Indian citizen.
if he violates his probation he will be deported.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/05/21/dharun-ravi-gets-off-easy-in-clementi-case-month-in-jail-and-10000-fine/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1016-14326-6674

additionally:
he may now never be able to be a legal US citizen due to this conviction.
and
the victim's family may also sue him in civil court....much the way the OJ trial went with the family then suing and winning in civil court.


thought: i'm not sure that any employer in this country would be able to trust him. he may be better off leaving the country on his own.
 /\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")
__________________
"I don't feel enjoyment watching films that evoke passivity. If you need that kind of comfort, I don't understand why you wouldn't go to a spa." Chan-wook Park
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by movie zombie » May 22nd, 2012, 11:06 am
Written by Maisie » May 22nd, 2012, 11:01 am:There are obviously sentencing guidelines in place and if this person wasn't accused and convicted of murder or manslaughter then he couldn't be sentenced to 30 years or life or whatever. They must have decided to charge him with a crime they knew they would get a conviction for. If they had accused him of murder etc they weren't sure of a conviction.



they went for the full request for 10 years jail time, Maise. see:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/05/21/dharun-ravi-gets-off-easy-in-clementi-case-month-in-jail-and-10000-fine/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1016-14326-6674

the judge ended up appearing to side with the defense....
 /\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")
__________________
"I don't feel enjoyment watching films that evoke passivity. If you need that kind of comfort, I don't understand why you wouldn't go to a spa." Chan-wook Park
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Maisie » May 22nd, 2012, 11:14 am
Written by movie zombie » May 22nd, 2012, 11:06 am:
Written by Maisie » May 22nd, 2012, 11:01 am:There are obviously sentencing guidelines in place and if this person wasn't accused and convicted of murder or manslaughter then he couldn't be sentenced to 30 years or life or whatever. They must have decided to charge him with a crime they knew they would get a conviction for. If they had accused him of murder etc they weren't sure of a conviction.



they went for the full request for 10 years jail time, Maise. see:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/05/21/dharun-ravi-gets-off-easy-in-clementi-case-month-in-jail-and-10000-fine/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1016-14326-6674

the judge ended up appearing to side with the defense....


Thats what I meant. The maximum sentence for webcam voyeurism is 1 year, add to that the invasion of privacy crime which is 5 years then the hate crime charge brings it to ten years. What would he have been sentenced for manslaughter? I'm sure I have seen crime shows where people have been out of prison after 5 years.

I do agree that he has gotten off lightly. Especially as he hasn't shown any remorse at all.


 

Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Amber St. Clare » May 22nd, 2012, 11:18 am
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 8:25 am:
Written by missy » May 22nd, 2012, 7:32 am:
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:49 am:
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:
Written by thing2of2 » May 21st, 2012, 8:16 pm:
Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.


It's funny how we can read the same thing and end up in such different places on this.

I hadn't read this one, but when I did, I got out of it: He mocked him for being poor, and he harassed him because he was gay. He fully intended to humiliate Tyler by outing him to others publicly. Then, when he realized Tyler had reported him spying on webcam (which could result in his own expulsion), he began trying to 'clean it up' by being nice to his face (while continuing to trash him behind his back) and then began sanitizing his Twitter and other public postings about it.

Far from my idea of a model citizen, and this even further solidifies my opinion that the justice was barely a slap.


I certainly don't think the kid is a model citizen, and I don't think my post implied that in any way. It is interesting we can end up in such different places, though. When I first heard about the case and read about it, I felt the same way you did. The New Yorker piece introduced more grey area. I'm too lazy to read it again, but the impression I got when I read it the first time was that Ravi was an arrogant prick, but he didn't seem particularly vicious.


Secretly videotaping someone having sex for the purpose of humiliating him and making him feel terrible seems pretty vicious to me...


But how do you know Ravi did it specifically to humiliate him and make him feel terrible? That would be vicious, but from the article, it didn't seem that that was Ravi's intent.

Listen, I'm certainly not defending the guy's behavior. But he didn't relentlessly bully Tyler Clementi. Until the videotaping incident, Ravi really just talked about him behind his back.



For WHAT OTHER REASON would Ravi tape soeone having sex? He was a hetro man, so he wasn't using it for personal gratification. The only reason was to shame and humilate Clementi. Ravi is a sociopath as I'mDanny pointed out. He should be doing his time in a PRISON SETTING and then deported. He still doesn't and never will get it.
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Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Imdanny » May 22nd, 2012, 11:39 am
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:49 am:
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:
Written by thing2of2 » May 21st, 2012, 8:16 pm:
Ditto this. The extended New Yorker article paints a very different picture than other news outlets. After reading it I wasn't quite on Ravi's "side," so to speak, but I was more neutral.


It's funny how we can read the same thing and end up in such different places on this.

I hadn't read this one, but when I did, I got out of it: He mocked him for being poor, and he harassed him because he was gay. He fully intended to humiliate Tyler by outing him to others publicly. Then, when he realized Tyler had reported him spying on webcam (which could result in his own expulsion), he began trying to 'clean it up' by being nice to his face (while continuing to trash him behind his back) and then began sanitizing his Twitter and other public postings about it.

Far from my idea of a model citizen, and this even further solidifies my opinion that the justice was barely a slap.


I certainly don't think the kid is a model citizen, and I don't think my post implied that in any way. It is interesting we can end up in such different places, though. When I first heard about the case and read about it, I felt the same way you did. The New Yorker piece introduced more grey area. I'm too lazy to read it again, but the impression I got when I read it the first time was that Ravi was an arrogant prick, but he didn't seem particularly vicious.


What's not vicious about the actions he took?
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Imdanny » May 22nd, 2012, 11:57 am
Written by aljdewey » May 22nd, 2012, 10:50 am:
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:49 am:
Written by aljdewey » May 21st, 2012, 9:32 pm:I'm too lazy to read it again, but the impression I got when I read it the first time was that Ravi was an arrogant prick, but he didn't seem particularly vicious.


I guess it depends one's personal definition of vicious.

For me, bullying is vicious. Publicly mocking and humiliating someone else is vicious - it's ridiculing for sport at someone else's pain and expense. Doing it on the internet so you can reach the widest audience possible - even moreso. I don't see how that behavior can be viewed as anything but vicious.


Yes, secretly taking your gay roommate having any kind of intimate relations, mocking it, putting it on the internet, and asking your friends to join in is vicious.

http://www.answers.com/topic/vicious
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 12:09 pm
If we're doing definitions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

"Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior manifested by the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when the behavior is habitual and involves an imbalance of power. It can include verbal harassment, physical assault or coercion and may be directed repeatedly towards particular victims, perhaps on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexuality, or ability.[2][3] The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a "target"."

The bolding is mine. When I think of bullying, including vicious bullying, the above is what I think of. Clearly I'm outnumbered on this one, and that's fine. Again, I'm not defending Ravi. I'm saying that after reading the New Yorker article, I looked at the situation a different way.

The article posted by ksinger also speaks to this: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/05/dharun_ravi_received_a_light_sentence_for_spying_on_tyler_clementi_.html

ETA and another article that speaks to the sentencing: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/opinion/make-the-punishment-fit-the-cyber-crime.html?_r=1
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by iLander » May 22nd, 2012, 12:14 pm
[quote="movie zombie|1337658507|3200701"]iLander, you left out 'arrogant'..........if he didn't want to room with a poor gay male student, he could have asked to have a change of roomates. he didn't. instead he chose....yes, chose....to be impolite, invade the privacy of another, and then claim he had no bad intentions. yes, i think Arrogant is the word you left out, iLander. he should be deported. he is an arrogant criminal and nothing more.[/quote]

YES! I don't understand why he is still allowed to be in this country!

When I came to this country, my family continuously lived in paranoid fear that we would be deported. If I stepped out of line even a little (maybe I got a B on something), I heard "Oh, (foreign expletive) we will be pushed out of this country. What if people find out about this?!!" Every little thing was a BIG deal.

We had to have an American family sponsor us, and vouch for us, and everything else.

Now, apparently, they let any arrogant ba$tard in. :(

I sincerely hope the boy's family presses for a civil lawsuit.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by amc80 » May 22nd, 2012, 12:29 pm
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 12:09 pm:If we're doing definitions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

"Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior manifested by the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when the behavior is habitual and involves an imbalance of power. It can include verbal harassment, physical assault or coercion and may be directed repeatedly towards particular victims, perhaps on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexuality, or ability.[2][3] The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a "target"."

The bolding is mine. When I think of bullying, including vicious bullying, the above is what I think of. Clearly I'm outnumbered on this one, and that's fine. Again, I'm not defending Ravi. I'm saying that after reading the New Yorker article, I looked at the situation a different way.

The article posted by ksinger also speaks to this: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/05/dharun_ravi_received_a_light_sentence_for_spying_on_tyler_clementi_.html

ETA and another article that speaks to the sentencing: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/opinion/make-the-punishment-fit-the-cyber-crime.html?_r=1


I agree with you. I think Ravi was an insensitive jerk and a generally not nice person. But I don't think he was bullying. But then again I think the term "bullying" is way overused these days.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by aljdewey » May 22nd, 2012, 12:55 pm
Written by thing2of2 » May 22nd, 2012, 12:09 pm:If we're doing definitions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

"Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior manifested by the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when the behavior is habitual and involves an imbalance of power. It can include verbal harassment, physical assault or coercion and may be directed repeatedly towards particular victims, perhaps on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexuality, or ability.[2][3] The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a "target"."

The bolding is mine. When I think of bullying, including vicious bullying, the above is what I think of. Clearly I'm outnumbered on this one, and that's fine. Again, I'm not defending Ravi. I'm saying that after reading the New Yorker article, I looked at the situation a different way.

The article posted by ksinger also speaks to this: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/05/dharun_ravi_received_a_light_sentence_for_spying_on_tyler_clementi_.html

ETA and another article that speaks to the sentencing: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/opinion/make-the-punishment-fit-the-cyber-crime.html?_r=1


I see those bolded points more than satisified in this case:

Imbalance of power: There is one. Ravi has information that can bring ridicule upon Tyler; Tyler doesn't have information that can bring ridicule onto Ravi. Ravi has willing climate of intolerane in which to exploit that information; Tyler doesn't.

Habitual/repeated: 1. Tweeted intolerance about gay roommate. 2) Set up web cam to tape said roommate. 3) BROADCAST the encounter on the internet when it was live. 4). Two days later (in anticipation of second encounter), broadcast *again* .....with enough advance notice that virtually would have guaranteed an even wider audience. 5) TRY to broadcast again - only reason not successful is because Tyler knew he was being taped and thwarted it.
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Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by Maria D » May 22nd, 2012, 1:43 pm
Written by aljdewey » May 22nd, 2012, 12:55 pm:I see those bolded points more than satisified in this case:

Imbalance of power: There is one. Ravi has information that can bring ridicule upon Tyler; Tyler doesn't have information that can bring ridicule onto Ravi. Ravi has willing climate of intolerane in which to exploit that information; Tyler doesn't.

Habitual/repeated: 1. Tweeted intolerance about gay roommate. 2) Set up web cam to tape said roommate. 3) BROADCAST the encounter on the internet when it was live. 4). Two days later (in anticipation of second encounter), broadcast *again* .....with enough advance notice that virtually would have guaranteed an even wider audience. 5) TRY to broadcast again - only reason not successful is because Tyler knew he was being taped and thwarted it.


I think your facts here are a bit off, as they were in your post about administration response. Here's a timeline of events:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/24/dharun-ravi-tyler-clementi-timeline_n_1297056.html

The sum total of everything I've read about Ravi is that he's definitely got an arrogant, immature, pr*ck side to him. Is that his only side? I don't know; I hope not for humanity's sake. When I first heard about this case, my thought was what he did was beyond the pale despicable.I thought he *outed* a gay young man in the worst way possible. After reading more about what actually happened, it has tempered my view. What Ravi did was absolutely unacceptable, illegal and immoral, but he wasn't doing it to someone who presented himself as a fragile person newly discovering his sexuality. Clementi had no problem asking Ravi, just a couple of weeks into the school year, to leave the room so that he could have privacy with a 25 year-old outsider. Maybe to Ravi this spoke of confidence in his (Clementi's) sexuality and maybe Ravi's actions were borne more out of jealousy of that than malicious intent?

I'm trying to imagine this scenario with my own 18 year old daughter who most of the time is a solid person but is sometimes a haughty PITA. If she was peeved that her roommate was kicking her out so that she could have sex with a 25 year old, might my daughter do something so stupid? (And by "something" I'm talking about what actually happened according to published timelines.)

eta: In full disclosure, I should add that as someone who has had an immediate family member commit suicide, I have a tendency to sympathize with people who are blamed for the suicide of others.
~Maria D~
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by aljdewey » May 22nd, 2012, 2:40 pm
My timeline isn't incorrect, and the Huffingpost isn't the be-all, end-all publication of record or authority. There have been several pieces written about it, and some considerably more thorough than H/P.

Ravi tweeted about finding out his roommate was gay before they even met, and Tyler knew about that tweeting when Ravi was setting up his side of the room.

Tyler asked more than once for a room change - the convo with the R/A was the second request, not the first, and that second request was approximately 30 hours prior to his final actions.

At minimum, we know that Tyler was aware of Ravi tweeting about him being gay on one occasion and subsequently trying to spy on him via webcam. Those two alone meet the standard for 'repeated', and it's entirely possible Tyler had seen the tweet(s) prior to the second spycam attempt.

ETA: It seems the two issues are being intertwined throughout this discussion, so I will qualify this: It cannot be said that Ravi expressly caused or intended to cause Tyler's suicide. It can absolutely be stated that Ravi engaged in behavior that would never be received as well-intentioned and that most would agree was done with intent to demean. In doing so, he violated laws that certainly warranted much more penalty that what he received.
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Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by aljdewey » May 22nd, 2012, 2:48 pm
Further, while Ravi's intent cannot be proven, I do sincerely believe that he did this with intent. I think his goal was to make Tyler uncomfortable enough that he'd ask for a room change because Ravi was uncomfortable having a gay roommate. Then, he could get what he wanted (change of roommates) without having to appear intolerant.
_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by gem_anemone » May 22nd, 2012, 2:57 pm
I don't think that 30 days is an appropriate punishment for webcam voyeurism and invasion of privacy. I think he should have gotten up to 5 years. However, like amc and some others have said, I believe that Clementi was a fragile person with a lot of issues that complicated the situation and the weight of it all led to his choosing to take his own life. I'm not sure you can place the entire blame on this one act regardless of how humiliating and wrong it was.

If you were to punish all others who were contributing to Clementi's depression you'd have to include Ravi, Clementi's parents, and any other people in his life who may have been disappointing him. The situation is terrible and what Ravi did is abhorrent and inexcusable, but I think the culmination of all the overwhelming obstacles in Clementi's life are what caused him to take his own life, not one particular action (no matter how despicable).

Depression is a terrible thing and it really is sad when people are unable to get help before deciding to end it all.
**former lurker** ;P
Re: Dahrun Ravi--30 DAYS in jail! Your thoughts?

Post by aljdewey » May 22nd, 2012, 3:18 pm
A bit more on meeting the "repeated" barometer, from the article in Slate:

"He (Tyler's father) mentioned how often Clementi checked the Twitter page where Ravi braggingly posted his spying plans as evidence of how disturbed his son was by his roommate’s salacious bid for attention."
_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.


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