Copying, and ... copying

[Jemsy]

My engagement ring was copied, but it doesn't bother me at all because, in my opinion, I have the far superior product. However, I know that my jeweller was particularly frustrated by the incident, because the design is incredibly unique and the execution was incredibly challenging and he put a lot of work into getting those things as perfect as they could be. I think you're right - most vendors would not hesitate to add a Harry Winston-esque halo ring to their setting offering, but they would all be furious if their one-off, custom designs were replicated across the industry (with variable quality).

ZahraLeyla, I just subscribed today to apologize to you and am not sure how to do so to your designer. I never meant any harm. And absolutely your ring is a far superior ring . . . you have a beautiful diamond and the design features are executed flawlessly.
I only meant to use it as inspiration for my ring . . . and yes, at a price that I could afford.
I love my ring . . . it is a shadow of yours . . . but to me a quite lovely shadow and one that reflects my own personality as well as borrowing design features from yours that I so fell in love with.
At any rate . . . I hope you find this and accept my apology.
Thank you.

Jemsy, I'm so glad that you logged onto Pricescope. I'm the poster who used the word "desecration," and I want to apologize to you for using such a strong and poorly-considered word in reference to your ring. That must have been very hurtful, and I am sincerely sorry for that. I've been feeling very badly about it, especially when I went back and reread the entire thread, and realized that a word I had kind of thrown out off the top of my head had apparently made much more of an impact than I had ever intended.

In any case, I am so very sorry for any distress I may have caused you.

I'm glad I posted too . . . I totally accept your apology. I think that we probably all have so much more in common than not . . . and that communication can be challenging when emotions are running high. Thanks so much for making me feel better.

 

[JaneSmith]

Goodness, this thread made for an engrossing bathroom read. I lost track of time, and my legs fell asleep.

Oh my goodness!

And then the pies!



I am glad people from the other forum have come over here. I've not read the other threads, but have seen enough from comments here to make me very glad that these feelings are being brought out into the open. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Welcome new members! Please come over more often, and share your goodies. We are not cheerleaders at the lunch table of awesome.

If I was at home I would take picture of myself with my Louis Vuitton handbag (for people from that forum), my three stone Birks copy e-ring (for PSers and this thread), and my sim tanzanite and cz RHR (for people from the other forum). A little something for everyone.

When I posted a picture of my unusual RHR, I was more concerned with blowing my anonymity than any potential copying. It is a unique piece by an artist and it won a national jewelry award.
Honestly, I would probably be momentarily bummed that someone else had a ring like mine. But, I will always have the original, by the artist. And if someone else loves it that much, then that is cool.
I like hanging out with people who like the same sports, or philosophy, or literature as I. Why not be pleased that someone else has a similar jewelry esthetic? We would probably have a good time at a get-together.

I have copies of Van Gogh masterpieces on my walls. Because I love the art, and can't afford the original.

I am getting a tiffany copy made. I've actually been wondering, before this thread came up, if I will post it. I'm only referring to it now because I rashly and excitedly announced it in the random comments thread.
I'd like to post my ring because that is one of the great parts of PS that I love. Show Me The Bling!

 

[arkieb1]

We have read the opinions of the people who have had rings copied and some of those who have copied them. Maybe we are all ignoring the people who own the real "intellectual rights" to some of these designs - the metalsmiths, jewellers and artists that make them.

Leon Mege is a good example - I saw a cheap Chinese copy of his "Lotus" ring that he sells in conjunction with Whiteflash just before Christmas and mentioned it to someone I know who works at Whiteflash. Lets just say Whiteflash threatened legal action and to my knowledge they didn't mention it to Leon because they knew he would flip out. It's a very distinct ring, it wasn't a tribute to a Leon it was a less than half priced, badly made copy, they didn't alter any parts of the design - it was an EXACT copy. I felt sorry for Whiteflash and Leon and I don't even own that ring!!!

Many hours of sketching and designing, love and toil goes into a Leon, a Victor, a Steven, a Mike, etc design. I am sure when they see copies of their work they shake their heads in dismay.

On the flip side of that Brian Gavin make an artform of making Tiffany Copies which and I use quotes I have read here in forums "are better than Tiffany" and ERD also sell a number of Tiffany, Harry Winston, and Cartier designs some of which many of you own.

Yet, if any one of you spent weeks making a one off painting, or a year writing a novel and someone else copied it I doubt you would find it flattering irrespective of your lifestyles so it IS NOT a rich kid versus poor kid dilemma. When someone copies a famous novel or a Tiffany design does it make it any more or less right than a not so famous book or jeweller?

My father is a metal artist and metalsmith BTW and has had major art exhibitions here. Some time ago he had two of his designs knocked off and we saw cheap copies being made both in China and in Africa. I still sometimes see a cheap copy of one of his pieces in shops and think, gee my Dad was the first person to make one of those, (I have an original sitting on my mantle or know where the original actually is) these flimsy copies that are a fraction of the price do not do justice to the original or nor do they do anything for me at all.

It's true fashion thrives on a reinvention of the past, but if you are an artist, writer, jeweller, photographer etc then I don't think its nice or fair that pieces worth many thousands of dollars are being closely copied. I don't think being upset about that is snobbery because I can say the people that I know that have had their worked copied mostly aren't snobs mostly they are every day people that have a passion and make a living making beautiful piece and objects for you. When these pieces get ripped off they can lose dollars, reputations, and so on.


Copying products has always happened but it doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it fair. Flattery? Ask any artist how THEY feel about it and I doubt that would be an adjective they would use. High end jewellery and metalcraft is a dying art? Why is it dying? Simply because it is difficult to compete with factories in China and other countries that can make anything at a fraction of the cost.

Many of you were outraged when Van Craeynest recently considered a more mass market approach (they decided not to in the end) but who can blame them when they have to compete, often with their own designs being sold for a fraction of an original, there was also pressure on them to make their pieces less handmade and "more affordable and mass produced" for the mass market. When these companies do that then I think they lose the very heart of what they represent.

When you copy an artists work then you devalue the original and in the case of the designer you devalue the hours, days and weeks it took that person to make that item. When I see an original copied without permission from the artist/designer it doesn't matter if its a good copy, an expensive copy, a bad copy or a cheap copy, it's still a slap for the person who created it like it or not.

 

[yennyfire]

I just want to welcome the new members...it took guts to join after some of the things that have been said back and forth! I am so impressed by the way this thread has turned out. It makes me proud to be a PSer! Ya'll rock!!

 

[Aoife]

I'm glad I posted too . . . I totally accept your apology. I think that we probably all have so much more in common than not . . . and that communication can be challenging when emotions are running high. Thanks so much for making me feel better.

Jemsy, thank you, that's very generous of you.

I completely agree that we all probably have a lot in common, and communication on the internet is always full of pitfalls. I hope that you and other new members will stay and post. A shared love of beautiful jewelry is what PS is all about, and there can never be too much bling!

 

[aljdewey]

Arkibe, I agree with much of what you wrote in general as it applies to intellectual property in general. I fully agree with it if we're talking about making exact copies, but I don't agree as much when it comes to 'inspired by' that modifies several elements.

Ideas can't be copyrighted, and that's what can make it so tough. The Leon Lotus, for example......anyone else could embark on a design themed on a lotus, but they can't have all the same distinctive elements of his ring positioned exactly as he has them positioned, etc.

My 3-stone e-ring (built about 10 years ago) was inspired by a designer piece I'd seen. Similar elements - 6-prongs, yellow gold, 3-stone, buttercup-like setting. However, the sidestones of my ring are set much lower than the original because they are significantly smaller stones. My ring is two-tone with platinum heads/yellow shank; the original is all yellow. I wanted differently shaped prongs than the original.

I actually wanted to work with the designer whose ring inspired mine, but he said the changes I wanted would look horrible. I imagine he felt insulted by my lack of appreciation for what he thought was an already perfect design concept. He also said that perhaps I think hard about spending 2K on a setting when my stone was only worth $6k. LMAO. (The original design had a 2 ct center stone with either 1 or 1.5 each side stones - market value at the time on that suite had to be around $25-30K).

I had my ring made elsewhere and it looked exactly like I wanted it to. Interesting enough, I've spent a lot of time in pawn shops since then and you'd be floored to know how many antique rings I've run across that look almost exactly like mine.......same construction, same proportions. Really, the only difference is that most of them have been all yellow gold instead of 2-tone. So, I guess my designer's design was 'inspired', too......and that's the case with most pieces in jewelry today.

There are very few elements that are fully new; what makes a piece unique these days is the combination of the elements involved, how those elements are positioned, and the individual craftsmanship with which they are brought together. For me, that's what really makes someone's work distinctive - the flow and craftsmanship of a ring that invokes that craftsman to mind when you see it. The work done by Singlestone and 23rd street, for example, is just exquisite. There are other jewelers who make similar feel pieces, but the refinement that SS and 23rd St. bring to their pieces elevates their work to a different level.

I agree that designers should be able to make a living from their work.....full stop. But realistically, his work will be out of reach for some folks on a more restricted budget and so they will be never truly be revenue opportunities for him or truly impact his ability to make a living. Their choice is to either do an inspired-by piece with a more budget-conscious jeweler, or forego that style altogether.

 

[redwood66]

Thank you all for the welcome and as you can see Jemsy is one of the most wonderful people I "know" from the internet. Hence my reason for posting in the first place. I am so glad that this has been brought into the open and many, like me, may be more inclined to add to the community here.

 

[rosetta]

Hello newbies!

Stay, stay. Copy anything I have posted, I don't mind. I'd be flattered. Don't bother asking me, I'm not emotionally wound up in jewellery. If I don't want it copied, I won't post it. Anything I post, please copy/adjust/improve whatever. I mean it, sincerely and on the record.

But do not, I repeat, do not expect any super duper photos showing every last detail. Coz I seriously SUCK at photography. Ya copy at yer own risk buddy!

 

[tuffyluvr]

This will be well-received, but I don't really care...there seems to be a lot of snobbishness in this thread. I haven't read through the entire thing, but I've read some of the posts and they're terribly rude, elitist and inconsiderate of other's feelings. Like Thing 2 said--why do you care if some random person in the Internet has the same ring?

I see imitation like this as flattery. I mean, no one is up in arms that people copy famous designer rings? A Tiffany knife-edge repro or Harry Winston 'the one' is okay--even smaller designers: Leon, Victor Canera, etc... People rip those off all the time and people here ooh and aah over how pretty they are, but if it's *your* ring it's totally skeezy? If your ring is your intellectual property and you are so concerned about it being copied without your permission, then you should probably copyright it and not post images on the Internet. I mean, with pinterest, often people don't even know where the images came from.

When FI was having my ring made, he asked me for my input on what I liked. I pointed out a few things here and on jewelers websites. I didn't copy anyone's ring, per se, but elements from several rings ended up on my ring, I guess. I never even thought about it, but I guess I should feel guilty if the jeweler "mauled" the filigree work because it's not as nice as another's or because the engraving on mine is too similar to someone else's?

If having a one-of-a-kind ring is so important to you, don't blast photos over the worldwide web, cuz god forbid someone likes your design and tries to replicate it! The HORROR of these first-world problems!!!

 

[tuffyluvr]

Ermmm... Fail! First sentence should read: "this will NOT be well-received". Yeahhhhh...

 

[JaneSmith]

Yet, if any one of you spent weeks making a one off painting, or a year writing a novel and someone else copied it I doubt you would find it flattering irrespective of your lifestyles so it IS NOT a rich kid versus poor kid dilemma. When someone copies a famous novel or a Tiffany design does it make it any more or less right than a not so famous book or jeweller?

Yes it is a rich vs poor dilemma for many. I cannot afford Van Gogh, so I buy a print. I cannot afford a Tiffany, so I get a jeweler to make a copy. In the end, I enjoy the art, and never claim to have the original.

An artist can copyright a design if it is truly unique. Just like an inventor can copyright a new engine or a chemist can copyright a new drug. There are laws in place to deal with intellectual property rights. If the artist encounters true plagiarism, where someone else is claiming it as their own and even profiting, that is not right and the artist can persue legal action in regards to copyright infringement.
A piece of jewelry that is not a new design, or not terribly unique is difficult to copyright and claim as entirely your own. The Harry Winston cushion halo? They may call it theirs, and brand it 'The One', but it is just a haloed solitaire, done before by others many times.

Do you tell a joke you've heard and think is funny? Do you sing songs in the car or shower? Have you ever danced the twist or the Macarena?
We are social apes, art and literature is how we express ourselves. You cannot be a dog in the manger about all art. If you want to share art with the world, be prepared for someone to like it.

 

[Mike R]

Hi all, sorry bit late here but I thought I'd offer my opinion for what it's worth.

I have mixed feelings on this myself, really does depend for me on the spirit in which the new piece is made and how closely the design is copied.
Artists are inspired by different things all the time, like Yssie said I get shown all sorts of different things by clients for inspiration.
Personally I think so long as the artist uses what they are shown as a starting point to add their own artistic input to, with the goal of creating an original piece then I see no problem with it at all, but I have to be honest outright copying an artists work for any reason just really kinda sucks.

Personally I also don't agree with the notion that if you don't want it copied then don't show it here, sort of sounds like blaming the victim to me, almost like you shouldn't have worn such a revealing dress or driven such an expensive car, but again that's just me.

My opinion is...
copying an original design created by an artist is taking something from them, they took the time to think of, design and create a drawing of that design, it belongs to them just as much as anything else someone creates belongs to the creator. I wouldn't take (steal) a piece of furniture someone made because they made it, it's theirs. Designers make designs, IT'S THEIR DESIGN, it belongs to them!

I really don't mind people copying some of my designs but when I've spent approximately 50 hours creating a special design (making the ring took a lot longer than that) with a particular person in mind I can't help but feel a little disappointed to see a copy made no matter the execution. Z's design was a special piece for a special person.

I recommend to people reading this to talk to the original designer if you want one of their designs, give them a chance to come up with a design just for you that meets your requirements (budget or other) don't assume things.
I'm not accepting any new work but I'm always happy to help with designs or ideas here when I have the time, you'll find most artists love to share their passion if they are given the opportunity.

This is just my opinion, I'm honestly not looking to change anyone's mind or to get people to think like me, this is just was i was thinking about the topic.
Thanks for those with kind words about my pieces.

 

[Mike R]

If it makes RDG sick to see his stuff copied and he requests his jewelry NEVER be shown on the web, well....it seems he got as busy as he was from PSers posting his rings to the net!

Hi TG, just wanted to say I have been making jewellery for about twenty years now, I have made pieces for 4 PS'ers over these last couple of years and am currently working on two more, PS isn't why I'm busy at all.

Also I have never asked anyone to share or not to share my pieces here .

I love sharing what I do on the net because I love jewellery as an art form, not just a gem holding apparatus or commodity, I don't think we get to see enough of the really artistic side of jewellery anymore, that's why I share what I do.

 

[Circe]

Hi, Mike - I really appreciate your chiming in. It's good to hear from the pros who are affected on a more visceral level. For whatever it might be worth, I nodded along for just about every word of your post.

 

[pinkjewel]

Hey Mike

Glad you joined in to give the artist's perspective!! I don't think a lot of people think about the hard work that you and other original designers put into the pieces you create- not to mention it's a part of you- a creation that you have taken from concept to creation. Then to see it copied in whatever form seems like a violation- it's just so wrong!!

Hopefully, if more people can understand the artist's perspective and, in your case,since you have generously offered to assist with designs if time warrants, maybe there can be a better solution to blatant copies.

 

[ZahraLeyla]

.

 

[Mike R]

Hi, Mike - I really appreciate your chiming in. It's good to hear from the pros who are affected on a more visceral level. For whatever it might be worth, I nodded along for just about every word of your post.

Hi Circe, thanks for the interesting topic.

 

[aljdewey]

Mike, your work is indeed distinctive and I can see why you feel so proud of the designs you put out.

Funny enough, I notice your avatar has a design with many of the same elements in it that Zahra's ring does - double halo, pink inside, white outside, with marquise stones stretching beyond the halos and a small pink round diamond in between each pair of marquise stones. Would this be a matching pendant to that specific ring, or just a variation on the design with the clover/3 stones configuration? It's beautiful and very fluid.

 

[Mike R]

I know that Mike would never ever ever ever (ever! ) remake my ring, or anything close to it for anyone else

your funny, no I never would, think I've had about thirty requests so far.

Hey Mike

Hi PJ

 

[Mike R]

Mike, your work is indeed distinctive and I can see why you feel so proud of the designs you put out.

Funny enough, I notice your avatar has a design with many of the same elements in it that Zahra's ring does - double halo, pink inside, white outside, with marquise stones stretching beyond the halos and a small pink round diamond in between each pair of marquise stones. Would this be a matching pendant to that specific ring, or just a variation on the design with the clover/3 stones configuration? It's beautiful and very fluid.

Hi, I am proud but mostly my designs are just very personal, especially when I create them for a particular person.
My avatar sketch was designed for Zahra, I wouldn't make or design anything like that for anyone else other than her.

 

[aljdewey]

Yet, if any one of you spent weeks making a one off painting, or a year writing a novel and someone else copied it I doubt you would find it flattering irrespective of your lifestyles so it IS NOT a rich kid versus poor kid dilemma. When someone copies a famous novel or a Tiffany design does it make it any more or less right than a not so famous book or jeweller?

Yes it is a rich vs poor dilemma for many. I cannot afford Van Gogh, so I buy a print. I cannot afford a Tiffany, so I get a jeweler to make a copy. In the end, I enjoy the art, and never claim to have the original.

An artist can copyright a design if it is truly unique. Just like an inventor can copyright a new engine or a chemist can copyright a new drug. There are laws in place to deal with intellectual property rights. If the artist encounters true plagiarism, where someone else is claiming it as their own and even profiting, that is not right and the artist can persue legal action in regards to copyright infringement.
A piece of jewelry that is not a new design, or not terribly unique is difficult to copyright and claim as entirely your own. The Harry Winston cushion halo? They may call it theirs, and brand it 'The One', but it is just a haloed solitaire, done before by others many times.

Do you tell a joke you've heard and think is funny? Do you sing songs in the car or shower? Have you ever danced the twist or the Macarena?
We are social apes, art and literature is how we express ourselves. You cannot be a dog in the manger about all art. If you want to share art with the world, be prepared for someone to like it.

A bit of clarification on the whole intellectual property discussion.......

Copyright protects original expression in a fixed form, but it doesn't protect ideas. If I created a drawing that looked nearly identical to one you created and neither of us had access to the other's version, neither would be an infringement. In the U.S., copyright protection term vary depending on when the work was created or published, but anything post 1978 is protected for lifetime of author plus 70 years.

Engines and drugs would be covered by patent, and patent does require novel (unique) invention (meaning no one else has created it before you). Once approved, patent protection in the U.S. lasts just 20 years. This is why brand name drugs eventually have generic counterparts - the patents expire.

Plagarism is something else entirely - it's about taking credit for someone's work, not simply copying it.

 

[pregcurious]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for posting your feelings and contributing. It's good to hear from the source. I don't think it's easy to get involved in a discussion like this.

I was advocating that people not post pieces they don't want copied, not to blame to victim, but to avoid them becoming a victim. I understand what you are saying also, and I don't disagree with your point.

I think something that is coming out of this discussion is that there are very different effects to copying in terms of hurting the feelings of a consumer, and hurting the efforts/work/lively hood of an artist. I hope this discussion will discourage people with the intention to make exact copies.

Preg

 

[hlmr]

Hi all, sorry bit late here but I thought I'd offer my opinion for what it's worth.

I have mixed feelings on this myself, really does depend for me on the spirit in which the new piece is made and how closely the design is copied.
Artists are inspired by different things all the time, like Yssie said I get shown all sorts of different things by clients for inspiration.
Personally I think so long as the artist uses what they are shown as a starting point to add their own artistic input to, with the goal of creating an original piece then I see no problem with it at all, but I have to be honest outright copying an artists work for any reason just really kinda sucks.

Personally I also don't agree with the notion that if you don't want it copied then don't show it here, sort of sounds like blaming the victim to me, almost like you shouldn't have worn such a revealing dress or driven such an expensive car, but again that's just me.

My opinion is...
copying an original design created by an artist is taking something from them, they took the time to think of, design and create a drawing of that design, it belongs to them just as much as anything else someone creates belongs to the creator. I wouldn't take (steal) a piece of furniture someone made because they made it, it's theirs. Designers make designs, IT'S THEIR DESIGN, it belongs to them!

I really don't mind people copying some of my designs but when I've spent approximately 50 hours creating a special design (making the ring took a lot longer than that) with a particular person in mind I can't help but feel a little disappointed to see a copy made no matter the execution. Z's design was a special piece for a special person.

I recommend to people reading this to talk to the original designer if you want one of their designs, give them a chance to come up with a design just for you that meets your requirements (budget or other) don't assume things.
I'm not accepting any new work but I'm always happy to help with designs or ideas here when I have the time, you'll find most artists love to share their passion if they are given the opportunity.

This is just my opinion, I'm honestly not looking to change anyone's mind or to get people to think like me, this is just was i was thinking about the topic.
Thanks for those with kind words about my pieces.

Honestly? Do you really feel good about making such an analogy?? That makes me ill. Your credibility (to speak on this subject) has been greatly diminished, in my eyes.

 

[TravelingGal]

Hi all, sorry bit late here but I thought I'd offer my opinion for what it's worth.

I have mixed feelings on this myself, really does depend for me on the spirit in which the new piece is made and how closely the design is copied.
Artists are inspired by different things all the time, like Yssie said I get shown all sorts of different things by clients for inspiration.
Personally I think so long as the artist uses what they are shown as a starting point to add their own artistic input to, with the goal of creating an original piece then I see no problem with it at all, but I have to be honest outright copying an artists work for any reason just really kinda sucks.

Personally I also don't agree with the notion that if you don't want it copied then don't show it here, sort of sounds like blaming the victim to me, almost like you shouldn't have worn such a revealing dress or driven such an expensive car, but again that's just me.

My opinion is...
copying an original design created by an artist is taking something from them, they took the time to think of, design and create a drawing of that design, it belongs to them just as much as anything else someone creates belongs to the creator. I wouldn't take (steal) a piece of furniture someone made because they made it, it's theirs. Designers make designs, IT'S THEIR DESIGN, it belongs to them!

I really don't mind people copying some of my designs but when I've spent approximately 50 hours creating a special design (making the ring took a lot longer than that) with a particular person in mind I can't help but feel a little disappointed to see a copy made no matter the execution. Z's design was a special piece for a special person.

I recommend to people reading this to talk to the original designer if you want one of their designs, give them a chance to come up with a design just for you that meets your requirements (budget or other) don't assume things.
I'm not accepting any new work but I'm always happy to help with designs or ideas here when I have the time, you'll find most artists love to share their passion if they are given the opportunity.

This is just my opinion, I'm honestly not looking to change anyone's mind or to get people to think like me, this is just was i was thinking about the topic.
Thanks for those with kind words about my pieces.

Honestly? Do you really feel good about making such an analogy?? That makes me ill. Your credibility (to speak on this subject) has been greatly diminished, in my eyes.

I had posted a comment on the exact same thing earlier , but got an error and lost my post...so I went to enjoy my afternoon.

That analogy doesn't work for me if it's mean as a woman wearing a revealing dress would get unwanted PHYSICAL attention (i.e., harm). Sorry, I don't think putting a pics of a ring on the web and getting it copied works with that analogy. And it's actually offputting.

But if you mean that a woman wearing a revealing dress gets ATTENTION, then yes, I would say duh, she does. I'm sorry, any woman wearing a revealing dress should be aware she will get attention. That's not blaming the victim. That's common sense. So if you put a picture out on the web, it MAY get attention and it MAY get copied. Simple.

As for PS not contributing to your business all that much, I would say that I won't presume to know the rate of your business before PS, but I don't think counting 4 PS projects done and 2 PS projects in the works would be an accurate metric as to what your business has reaped from having your jewelry posted on PS (and then onto the general net.) Either way, I'm certainly happy for you.

 

[TravelingGal]

I know that Mike would never ever ever ever (ever! ) remake my ring, or anything close to it for anyone else

your funny, no I never would, think I've had about thirty requests so far.

Hey Mike

Hi PJ

If this is true, then why should anyone ever approach you about getting it made? Why not go find someone else to make a something inspired by it? You said earlier that you think people should approach the designer if they want one of their designs. I get that you want the chance to make something DIFFERENT for them, but what if they see your work and want the same ring?

Having this code of ethics is great if you it works for you and your clients (i.e., they can feel super special that you are loyal to them and won't create the exact thing for anyone else) but you and your clients can't expect that the rest of the world will fall in line with that if you 1) won't replicate the design for other customers and, 2)Your client chooses to post pics of the ring on the Internet.

 

[iheartscience]

Hello newbies!

Stay, stay. Copy anything I have posted, I don't mind. I'd be flattered. Don't bother asking me, I'm not emotionally wound up in jewellery. If I don't want it copied, I won't post it. Anything I post, please copy/adjust/improve whatever. I mean it, sincerely and on the record.

But do not, I repeat, do not expect any super duper photos showing every last detail. Coz I seriously SUCK at photography. Ya copy at yer own risk buddy!

DITTO to every word, including not expecting super duper photos! Pretty sure I've owed Freke a photo shoot of my jewelry for like 4 years. I'm lazy AND a crappy photog, so y'all will just have to believe me when I say I have good stuff!

 

[Mike R]

Hi all, sorry bit late here but I thought I'd offer my opinion for what it's worth.

I have mixed feelings on this myself, really does depend for me on the spirit in which the new piece is made and how closely the design is copied.
Artists are inspired by different things all the time, like Yssie said I get shown all sorts of different things by clients for inspiration.
Personally I think so long as the artist uses what they are shown as a starting point to add their own artistic input to, with the goal of creating an original piece then I see no problem with it at all, but I have to be honest outright copying an artists work for any reason just really kinda sucks.

Personally I also don't agree with the notion that if you don't want it copied then don't show it here, sort of sounds like blaming the victim to me, almost like you shouldn't have worn such a revealing dress or driven such an expensive car, but again that's just me.

My opinion is...
copying an original design created by an artist is taking something from them, they took the time to think of, design and create a drawing of that design, it belongs to them just as much as anything else someone creates belongs to the creator. I wouldn't take (steal) a piece of furniture someone made because they made it, it's theirs. Designers make designs, IT'S THEIR DESIGN, it belongs to them!

I really don't mind people copying some of my designs but when I've spent approximately 50 hours creating a special design (making the ring took a lot longer than that) with a particular person in mind I can't help but feel a little disappointed to see a copy made no matter the execution. Z's design was a special piece for a special person.

I recommend to people reading this to talk to the original designer if you want one of their designs, give them a chance to come up with a design just for you that meets your requirements (budget or other) don't assume things.
I'm not accepting any new work but I'm always happy to help with designs or ideas here when I have the time, you'll find most artists love to share their passion if they are given the opportunity.

This is just my opinion, I'm honestly not looking to change anyone's mind or to get people to think like me, this is just was i was thinking about the topic.
Thanks for those with kind words about my pieces.

Honestly? Do you really feel good about making such an analogy?? That makes me ill. Your credibility (to speak on this subject) has been greatly diminished, in my eyes.

Sorry I can see where my comment could be misunderstood, I didn't mean to imply that the feeling of being violated would be at all equal for the different scenarios I gave, just that I found all of those ways of thinking to be absurd.

Not going to get into justifying my opinions, again they are only my thoughts, I'm not here to try and make people think like me.

 

[Circe]

HLMR, I made a similar analogy a few pages back, with the caveat that there was a huge degree of difference between the two ... but it IS a difference of degree and not kind.

I used to get catcalls - a lot. The thing I love about getting older is that I can step outside without feeling like I'm walking a gauntlet. And I used to get well-meaning friends suggesting I dress differently, and it pissed me off every time. Both because, for one thing, I should be able to dress for my own pleasure, or my romantic partner's, without it being a declaration of open season on Circe, and because ... well, it doesn't matter WHAT you wear, because catcalling, like rape, is about power dynamics more than sex. Which is where the analogy falls apart - the part that holds is for all those well meaning people trying to explain that it's your own fault your feelings are hurt, and you should stop acting like a victim and take some responsibility, and then the top of my head blows off, because sure, there might not be anything anybody can do about it, but can we at least stop with the more-open-minded-than-thou fake sympathy and the false equivalencies?

It's just jewelry. It still sucks when it's ripped off, considerably more so, I imagine, than being told the results aren't everybody's cup of tea.

 

[VRBeauty]

Sorry I can see where my comment could be misunderstood, I didn't mean to imply that the feeling of being violated would be at all equal for the different scenarios I gave, just that I found all of those ways of thinking to be absurd.

Not going to get into justifying my opinions, again they are only my thoughts, I'm not here to try and make people think like me.

Mike - I appreciate that you wandered into this debate and offered the designer/creator's point of view - in spite of the imperfect analogy.

I recognize that some of our PS members take a very active part in the design process and are in effect co-designers for specific pieces of jewelry, but in most cases the jeweler is the one who's doing the heavy lifting and making the design work and who has both an artistic and potentially, a financial interest in this discussion. (To me the fact that Mike totally booked is irrelevant - he could for example hire more bench, or license his designs to someone else, if he had not chosen to go the exclusive route.)

In either this thread or the one on the other forum, someone posted a link to an etsy seller who is offering what looks very much like a copy of haven's ring, but without some of the more costly details (the use of two metals and milgraining on the basket). Is it just a coincidence that she came up with this same design at about the same time? It's certainly a possibility. If not, is it a copy, or is it an "inspired by?" If Haven's jeweler didn't copyright his design, does it even matter? Does it (or should it) matter what Haven thinks?

I don't have any answers, BTW. The only aspect of all this that I'm sure of is my belief that the original artist's proprietary interest should not last forever. I don't see anything wrong at all with copying a vintage piece exactly, and I'm strongly opposed to the movement in federal law to extend copyright protection, virtually into perpetuity.

 

[NonieMarie]

I'm glad that this thread took a turn for the better. In the beginning, some of you came off as mean girls. Not that your points weren't in some way valid, just your words were nasty and showed you in a bad light. One of the ladies, that has one of the rings mentioned, was devastated by the comments. She was so happy with her ring and I hope the comments don't stop her from enjoying it. She is a lovely lady and I feel so bad for her and the others targeted.
I have to say that the other forum is not immune to the same kind of mean girl mentality. More than one thread was locked because of it. It seems that if you are one of the "popular girls", on both forums, you can get others to come to your defense and it doesn't matter that someone gets hurt in the process.