Can you identify a cz from a diamond by the naked eye?
- Thread starter 4CSinquiries
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Because of the different refractive index, windowing (i.e seeing through the diamond) is apparent with CZ's, particularly at an angle and when it is larger. However, diamonds do exhibit windowing to a certain degree although not as much as a CZ; and a poorly cut round/ step cut diamonds are more likely to exhibit windowing.
I would say with the naked eye, it is probably difficult to tell. What might ring alarm bells in my head is if the setting looks cheap. The other thing has to do with appearances, if she is polished and wearing a large ring I am far more likely to believe it is real.
I would say with the naked eye, it is probably difficult to tell. What might ring alarm bells in my head is if the setting looks cheap. The other thing has to do with appearances, if she is polished and wearing a large ring I am far more likely to believe it is real.
iota15
Brilliant_Rock
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Have people passed CZ or other stimulants by me before - Sure. It's probably happened quite a few times and I never knew it happened.
Have I, in my head, spotted and knew someone's stone to be "not a diamond" but was being passed for a diamond - oh yea! And it's pretty damn funny to me! I generally keep it to myself though, and I've never called anyone out on it to their face... to date. But I know. And sometimes, I don't notice right away (ie - when its still new and shiny) but get a bit of grime on it, and I can start to really tell the difference.
The most difficult is with clean round brilliants. You can't always distinguish a CZ or something else just because you expect rounds to be so damn bright, especially when they're brand spanking new or clean. I mean, it can be a little "too sparkly" but generally, it's when some grime gets on it that I notice the real difference. It doesn't sparkle or move quite right. Depending on what it is, sometimes it's a hint of color. Closer inspection will usually confirm it. In one case, the proud recipient showed me what I believe was a white sapphire, and the facet pattern was the main dead giveaway, amoung other things.
I generally don't say anything because heck, no friend/acquintence has been annoying enough for me to call them out. Plus, how do I know whether they know or their husbands/BF/FI are "mistaken" in what they thought they bought for such a ridiculously good deal. I'm not about to get in the middle of something, and usually, the girls are so happy, so really, who cares what it is as long as its beautiful.
Have I, in my head, spotted and knew someone's stone to be "not a diamond" but was being passed for a diamond - oh yea! And it's pretty damn funny to me! I generally keep it to myself though, and I've never called anyone out on it to their face... to date. But I know. And sometimes, I don't notice right away (ie - when its still new and shiny) but get a bit of grime on it, and I can start to really tell the difference.
The most difficult is with clean round brilliants. You can't always distinguish a CZ or something else just because you expect rounds to be so damn bright, especially when they're brand spanking new or clean. I mean, it can be a little "too sparkly" but generally, it's when some grime gets on it that I notice the real difference. It doesn't sparkle or move quite right. Depending on what it is, sometimes it's a hint of color. Closer inspection will usually confirm it. In one case, the proud recipient showed me what I believe was a white sapphire, and the facet pattern was the main dead giveaway, amoung other things.
I generally don't say anything because heck, no friend/acquintence has been annoying enough for me to call them out. Plus, how do I know whether they know or their husbands/BF/FI are "mistaken" in what they thought they bought for such a ridiculously good deal. I'm not about to get in the middle of something, and usually, the girls are so happy, so really, who cares what it is as long as its beautiful.
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Oh you mustiota15|1367994363|3442545 said:Have people passed CZ or other stimulants by me before - Sure. It's probably happened quite a few times and I never knew it happened.
Have I, in my head, spotted and knew someone's stone to be "not a diamond" but was being passed for a diamond - oh yea! And it's pretty damn funny to me! I generally keep it to myself though, and I've never called anyone out on it to their face... to date. But I know. And sometimes, I don't notice right away (ie - when its still new and shiny) but get a bit of grime on it, and I can start to really tell the difference.
I generally don't say anything because heck, no friend/acquintence has been annoying enough for me to call them out. Plus, how do I know whether they know or their husbands/BF/FI are "mistaken" in what they thought they bought for such a ridiculously good deal. I'm not about to get in the middle of something, and usually, the girls are so happy, so really, who cares what it is as long as its beautiful.
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4CSinquiries|1367863173|3441374 said:
Hi 4CS.
If all things are equal, yes, the CZ will be more rainbowish. However if you think about it more colored light means less white light. Ideal cut diamonds are cut to maximize total light return and a CZ cut like an ideal cut diamond will have more rainbows and less white and less light overall. But there are diamonds that are cut for more rainbows, and these have less white light and also slightly less light return overall.
The problem with calling people out on their CZ is that you can't expect people to be honest on this one. Some people with diamonds would rather not tell random people they are walking around with $10,000 on their left hand, and many people with CZ will figure it's none of your business. So whatever answer you get--if your guess was wrong, you are likely to conclude the person is lying, but if your guess was right, you conclude you can tell a diamond from a CZ easily.
This is why I'd only believe it's possible if someone can pass the controlled test. In theory it might be because yes, CZ are not the same as diamonds. In practice I doubt if it is possible. In the wild, I'm sure it's impossible without looking at other cues.
4CSinquiries
Rough_Rock
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iota15|1367994363|3442545 said:Have people passed CZ or other stimulants by me before - Sure. It's probably happened quite a few times and I never knew it happened.
Have I, in my head, spotted and knew someone's stone to be "not a diamond" but was being passed for a diamond - oh yea! And it's pretty damn funny to me! I generally keep it to myself though, and I've never called anyone out on it to their face... to date. But I know. And sometimes, I don't notice right away (ie - when its still new and shiny) but get a bit of grime on it, and I can start to really tell the difference.
The most difficult is with clean round brilliants. You can't always distinguish a CZ or something else just because you expect rounds to be so damn bright, especially when they're brand spanking new or clean. I mean, it can be a little "too sparkly" but generally, it's when some grime gets on it that I notice the real difference. It doesn't sparkle or move quite right. Depending on what it is, sometimes it's a hint of color. Closer inspection will usually confirm it. In one case, the proud recipient showed me what I believe was a white sapphire, and the facet pattern was the main dead giveaway, amoung other things.
I generally don't say anything because heck, no friend/acquintence has been annoying enough for me to call them out. Plus, how do I know whether they know or their husbands/BF/FI are "mistaken" in what they thought they bought for such a ridiculously good deal. I'm not about to get in the middle of something, and usually, the girls are so happy, so really, who cares what it is as long as its beautiful.
actually i did this mistake then... a friend of mine got a stud and was showing it to everyone... well it was nice it glistens... but as i've said i haven't seen a cz in person but i've seen russian/swiss diamond simulants which i can identify... from a distance it wouldn't be noticeable especially in a jazz bar where the lights are somewhat dim and somewhat spotlighted... but i was looking for that sudden flash of white when a diamond gets hit directly instead of a highlighted blue or orange... so i told that person "nice studs" so the person showed it to me... so i twisted the stud in my finger...gave me more or less 15 seconds just when the person mentioned it was a "diamond" and i said "no... i think not" which i caught the person flushed... i just made a follow up and said "you better ask them to have it checked because i don't think it is... it's just too rainbowy and white". my mistake was i did that in a bar where people actually heard what i said... not loud enough but say 3 persons of elbow distance can hear what i said...
4CSinquiries
Rough_Rock
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hi there guys! just an update!
I bought a high quality CZ set in 14k just for the heck of it. ok here are my observations... these are the high quality CZ that are laboratory made infused with certain chemicals to be scratchproof and shine like diamonds and even the fire is WITHIN the stone and not on the outer part of it
1. side by side with a diamond you can say that they have no difference BUT...
... what i noticed is, for a 1 carat of that, i should say the super flawlessness of how clear it is can tell you it's a CZ but that's in clear inspection
... now what i also notice is, it doesn't sparkle the way a diamond would... like compared to a smaller diamond of .10 in comparison, it sparks more despite the fluorescent light
...i also do notice that a diamond has this blinding white flashes, while the CZ has it but it's not as strong mirror-like as what a diamond can do...
...as for the colors, they are almost the same but with the diamond it sparks color and sparks that white flash of light compared to a CZ... then even when compared to a champagne i have at .50, the spark is just different. but it takes a really keen observer to notice it...
... due to also having it almost transparent, it would look unbelievable... it's more believable to see a diamond with a little tinge of yellow than seeing it in truly all transparent...
... the color didn't dance insanely like i was expecting it, it's almost like the diamond but the white flashes are less with the CZ...
... so i should say, that a diamond really does sparkle better even with the smallest stones... the fire may not be as crazy with smaller stones, but as one said earlier... there's depth in the color and spark... that now i understand...
thank you for the support. i wish this can be used as a reference by those wondering as well
I bought a high quality CZ set in 14k just for the heck of it. ok here are my observations... these are the high quality CZ that are laboratory made infused with certain chemicals to be scratchproof and shine like diamonds and even the fire is WITHIN the stone and not on the outer part of it
1. side by side with a diamond you can say that they have no difference BUT...
... what i noticed is, for a 1 carat of that, i should say the super flawlessness of how clear it is can tell you it's a CZ but that's in clear inspection
... now what i also notice is, it doesn't sparkle the way a diamond would... like compared to a smaller diamond of .10 in comparison, it sparks more despite the fluorescent light
...i also do notice that a diamond has this blinding white flashes, while the CZ has it but it's not as strong mirror-like as what a diamond can do...
...as for the colors, they are almost the same but with the diamond it sparks color and sparks that white flash of light compared to a CZ... then even when compared to a champagne i have at .50, the spark is just different. but it takes a really keen observer to notice it...
... due to also having it almost transparent, it would look unbelievable... it's more believable to see a diamond with a little tinge of yellow than seeing it in truly all transparent...
... the color didn't dance insanely like i was expecting it, it's almost like the diamond but the white flashes are less with the CZ...
... so i should say, that a diamond really does sparkle better even with the smallest stones... the fire may not be as crazy with smaller stones, but as one said earlier... there's depth in the color and spark... that now i understand...
thank you for the support. i wish this can be used as a reference by those wondering as well
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Smaller and bigger stones will play with size differently - to make an accurate comparison you'll need a diamond of similar size to your CZ. From your descriptions I could attribute several of your observations to sheer size and proportions differences.
4CSinquiries
Rough_Rock
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ah yeah... i was using the .75, .50 .25 and .10 and the other cluster ones with it... so i need to get a diamond of the same size... ok ok gotcha
but you can help out though
but you can help out though
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
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I wanted to share a funny story about CZs that a PS vendor shared with me. A client that has been working through this vendor for a e-ring diamond comes in to shop for a wedding band. The fiance proudly shows off her e-ring and the moment the vendor sees it knows that it is a CZ and not a diamond. The girl proudly asks what the vendor thought of it - he had no idea how to respond as it appeared the girl had no idea it was a CZ. He just said it was nice. Next, the vendor showed them some wedding bands and other rings - she was asking how come the other stones looked better than hers.
I thought... gosh ... if I was a vendor, what would I say? Heck, if it was a friend, what would I say? Would you call it out or would you let it go.
In a similar situation, we have a friend that broke up with his fiance and asked for the ring back. Less than a year later, he is engaged and I see the same ring on the new girl's finger.
I thought... gosh ... if I was a vendor, what would I say? Heck, if it was a friend, what would I say? Would you call it out or would you let it go.
In a similar situation, we have a friend that broke up with his fiance and asked for the ring back. Less than a year later, he is engaged and I see the same ring on the new girl's finger.
Snowy
Shiny_Rock
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CharmyPoo|1369318084|3452423 said:
As a vendor, I feel they would need to tell the girl as she's under false pretenses. For a friend I would say something but not in a way that they may take offense since I personally couldn't tell the difference well enough. If I could definitely tell and it was a close friend then I would still say something like that's a gorgeous cz, is it an X brand? Since I assume the fiance/ husband is not going to try to pull one over her eyes by lying and telling her it's a diamond and she already knows. To me, I cannot think of a situation that it's okay that he starts off an engagement with a lie. The girl would be humiliated later on when finding out and if it happened to me I wouldn't want my friend not to say anything.
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I think the appropriate response is to ask "Have you had it appraised?" If not, encourage them to - always a good policy! - and if so, assume they know what's what.
Judging from other boards, a lot of ladies know what they're wearing when they're wearing sims, and derive a certain confidence from confirmation that they're passing successfully, like, say, compliments from a jeweler or a jewelry-savvy friend. Unless I was 100% positive, like it was my best friend and I knew she thought she was wearing a ridonkulous sum on her hand when in fact she was wearing a well-mounted piece of bubble-wrap ... I think discretion would be the best part of valor.
Judging from other boards, a lot of ladies know what they're wearing when they're wearing sims, and derive a certain confidence from confirmation that they're passing successfully, like, say, compliments from a jeweler or a jewelry-savvy friend. Unless I was 100% positive, like it was my best friend and I knew she thought she was wearing a ridonkulous sum on her hand when in fact she was wearing a well-mounted piece of bubble-wrap ... I think discretion would be the best part of valor.
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If I were a vendor I'd like to think that I'd reply that they look different because they are a different material. I wouldn't want to not answer the question, especially if there's a chance that the person would be leaving her ring at any point. Who knows, maybe she knew it was a CZ.
A few of these posts talk about people passing off their CZs as diamonds. Are the owners of the CZs actually calling them diamonds or are the posters assuming that because it's on a certain finger it's being passed off as a diamond? My mother wears a large emerald cut white sapphire on her left ring finger. It's not so much that she wants to pass it off as a diamond, she's well aware that it's not one, but she wanted a large colourless gem and its what she could afford. I can't imagine someone attempting to call her out on it. How embarrassing for the the other person when my mother informs them that she knows and loves her ring! To her it's a pretty thing she enjoys wearing and it doesn't matter what it is. Maybe the CZ owners feel the same way.
A few of these posts talk about people passing off their CZs as diamonds. Are the owners of the CZs actually calling them diamonds or are the posters assuming that because it's on a certain finger it's being passed off as a diamond? My mother wears a large emerald cut white sapphire on her left ring finger. It's not so much that she wants to pass it off as a diamond, she's well aware that it's not one, but she wanted a large colourless gem and its what she could afford. I can't imagine someone attempting to call her out on it. How embarrassing for the the other person when my mother informs them that she knows and loves her ring! To her it's a pretty thing she enjoys wearing and it doesn't matter what it is. Maybe the CZ owners feel the same way.
Snowy
Shiny_Rock
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Rhea|1369384792|3452952 said:
I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm responding to CharmyPoo's post where the situation seems that the girl/ owner has no idea. "The girl proudly asks what the vendor thought of it - he had no idea how to respond as it appeared the girl had no idea it was a CZ. He just said it was nice. Next, the vendor showed them some wedding bands and other rings - she was asking how come the other stones looked better than hers."
It seems certain to me that in this situation the girl does not know it's a CZ since she's asking why the other stones looked better than hers. Unless... she's trying to test the vendor's ability to spot a CZ? (unlikely but who knows!)
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Snowy|1369401676|3453010 said:
The thing is ... the way the story is relayed, " the moment the vendor sees it knows that it is a CZ and not a diamond." As a number of people have said in the thread, that's just not possible. So to take the risk of insulting a client, or to make them doubt their fiance's honesty, on what's basically a hunch seems ... unprofessional.
HollyS
Ideal_Rock
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Yes, I have. Usually, if you know someone wouldn't pay tens of thousands for the real deal, and they're sporting some big bling . . . it's kind of a dead giveaway. And some are in cheaper settings, like sterling silver instead of gold or platinum.
Some CZs are quite good. The smaller the stone, the less it looks "glassy". I have a pair of 1ct CZ studs that might fool you, though.
Some CZs are quite good. The smaller the stone, the less it looks "glassy". I have a pair of 1ct CZ studs that might fool you, though.
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I would tell her it is a fake!...CharmyPoo|1369318084|3452423 said:
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Just wanted to add that a few months ago I ordered an 8mm cz to help me decide what size diamond I wanted. It was a hearts and arrows cut and very beautiful. I do not think I could tell it from a diamond just seeing it alone. And in fact, it did make me wonder a little why I was so wrapped up in buying a $30k diamond when that thing looked really good! And in fact, my husband said, "It looks good...why don't you just wear it?"!!! 
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HollyS|1369446938|3453413 said:
Are saying that you cannot actually tell, at least not by looking at the actual stone?
I think that side-by-side, even an untrained eye can see the differences between a CZ vs. a diamond. Having said that, it's often about context (as opposed to a side-by-side comparison). What I mean is, much of it depends on who's wearing it and how. If the scenario in which the CZ is being worn (by either the size of the CZ and/or the person wearing it)is unrealistic in any way, then that influences my opinion. For example, I have a friend who has a ton of money (she and her husband are multi-millionaires) and while most of her jewelry consists of real diamonds, she does own some CZs too. Even though they are rather large, they blend right in with all of her other diamonds and I honestly don't believe that anyone can tell the difference - I can't. Unless you are a diamond expert, I really don't believe that the average eye can tell the difference in the right context.
4CSinquiries
Rough_Rock
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HollyS|1369446938|3453413 said:
the thing is... they are now setting diamonds on silver... a lot of designer items are doing that... and so a lot of same material are being set but not with a designer's name...
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When a CZ is properly cut, and by that I mean adjusting the angles for the refractive index instead of lazily using diamond angles as most cz cutters do, the CZ is extremely difficult to tell by the naked eye.
I have shared this story here before, but perhaps it would be okay to do it again.
I once had a very particular client in my office. He made the comment while I was writing up his 1ct D-VVS1 diamond that he could tell a CZ from across the room.
I asked him if he was sure and got out one of my 1ct CZ's that I have custom cut in Thailand and put it in an identical holder to his new diamond.
I put both stones under my desk and mixed them around and held them out from across the desk and asked him to tell me which was which. He could not do it. I then handed him the two holders and up close he could not do it.
He asked me which was which and I honestly told him I would need to use my loupe to be 100% sure.
Then he asked why he was spending all of this money on a diamond.
I told him that in four or five years, when the CZ became scratched that he would be in very deep trouble with his then wife.
He bought the diamond.
I believe that with a well cut, clean CZ that it is very difficult to tell by the unaided eye. Yes, there are some who probably can do it most of the time, but not all diamonds are cut as well as some CZ, and if you are judging it to be a CZ because it does not sparkle as well as a diamond, or because it sparkles too well, then there are going to be times when the poor cut of one or the other is going to throw you for a loupe.
One of the more important lessons I learned at the GIA some 38 years ago is that sight identifications are VERY dangerous to your gemological pocket book. Look, think, then test to make sure you did not think yourself into a financial hole. Thus, while I might think I know which is which, I always confirm it with a loupe. About 5% of the time I am wrong, so I know for a fact that it can be difficult.
Wink
I have shared this story here before, but perhaps it would be okay to do it again.
I once had a very particular client in my office. He made the comment while I was writing up his 1ct D-VVS1 diamond that he could tell a CZ from across the room.
I asked him if he was sure and got out one of my 1ct CZ's that I have custom cut in Thailand and put it in an identical holder to his new diamond.
I put both stones under my desk and mixed them around and held them out from across the desk and asked him to tell me which was which. He could not do it. I then handed him the two holders and up close he could not do it.
He asked me which was which and I honestly told him I would need to use my loupe to be 100% sure.
Then he asked why he was spending all of this money on a diamond.
I told him that in four or five years, when the CZ became scratched that he would be in very deep trouble with his then wife.
He bought the diamond.
I believe that with a well cut, clean CZ that it is very difficult to tell by the unaided eye. Yes, there are some who probably can do it most of the time, but not all diamonds are cut as well as some CZ, and if you are judging it to be a CZ because it does not sparkle as well as a diamond, or because it sparkles too well, then there are going to be times when the poor cut of one or the other is going to throw you for a loupe.
One of the more important lessons I learned at the GIA some 38 years ago is that sight identifications are VERY dangerous to your gemological pocket book. Look, think, then test to make sure you did not think yourself into a financial hole. Thus, while I might think I know which is which, I always confirm it with a loupe. About 5% of the time I am wrong, so I know for a fact that it can be difficult.
Wink
4CSinquiries
Rough_Rock
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Wink|1369760970|3455114 said:
deep trouble with his wife? i don't understand this part... i personally purchase diamonds because i like it and if i generously hand it out to another half simply because i wanted to, then she can simply say "thank you"... now given that the other half finds out its CZ after 5 yrs, why exactly would she create trouble? she didn't pay for it... she got it for FREE. if she were marrying me for the "real diamond" i'd throw her out of my house ASAP! and i mean that. now if she was just wanting a diamond for herself, why don't she just purchase it herself... i purchase my diamonds myself... if she whines over a rock, i'm pretty sure she'd get into a lot of demands after the divorce. so i'd pretty much make sure a prenup is signed so she only gets what is hers.
... nway that's another topic.
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4CSinquiries|1369838801|3455671 said:
Are you trolling with this? I can't tell.
Just in case, though, a dislike of being lied to doesn't make one materialistic. And the idea that a husband has the right to kick his wife out of their shared home if she expresses an opinion over his lying to her is medieval idiocy.
I believe that I can tell the difference. I've got a bunch of CZ jewellery in luxury retailer boxes that I use as burglar decoys, and when I once tried them out in front of my usual mirror (the lighting is just so, and shows off maximum jewellery sparkle) they have NOTHING like the flashes of sparkle that my ideal/Signature cut high-colour diamonds do. The CZ is still pretty convincing - I bet the burglars would fall for it - but when you compare to the real thing - well, there is no comparison. The facets of the CZs are all wrong, and they do not throw out the same kind of light. Having said that, I guess I'm comparing CZ to super-ideal cuts like BGD Signature...maybe I would mistake a CZ for a low-quality diamond.
ETA: I haven't seen Wink's super-duper CZ, though. Maybe that's a different ballgame.
ETA: I haven't seen Wink's super-duper CZ, though. Maybe that's a different ballgame.
4CSinquiries|1369838801|3455671 said:
You would be in trouble because you misrepresented the stone as something that it wasn't, for personal gain: i.e. getting the kudos and gratitude of giving a real stone while keeping in your pocket the money that a real stone would have cost. And for lying.
If a couple has an open, honest agreement to get a really well-cut CZ because they both completely agree that they have other aims than spending money on jewellery, like getting a bigger house, then that's fine. As odd as it seems to us PSers, not every woman is very interested in jewellery. My mother isn't - she spends a wild fortune on clothes and travel, but really couldn't care less about jewellery.
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