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California's new "Mercy" rule

Christina...

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rainwood|1380235096|3527932 said:
I am mystified by how many people equate the mercy rule with "kids won't learn about failure" or "everyone gets a trophy." A kid on a team that's getting beaten by 35 points is going to know PLENTY about failure and there isn't anything in the rule that says they get a trophy for losing.

What important life lesson is a kid going to learn getting beaten by 65 points that they didn't learn getting beaten by 35 points. That the other team is a lot better? They already know that. That sometimes you lose? They already know that too. That maybe they aren't very good athletes? They'll know plenty about that if they get beaten by 35 points, especially if it happens more than once. What they WON'T learn is that it isn't a sportsmanlike thing to rub your opponent's face in a loss. You can argue whether 35 points is the right number, but the principle really is about sportsmanship and doing the right thing, and I'm disheartened that so many don't seem to value that. But as Kenny says, people vary.


I was an athlete all through High School and College and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the most heartbreaking losses were the small ones. I would much prefer to lose by 100 than by 2. So what then? Do we create a law stating that teams must win by more than 2 but less than 35 because anything else is unsportsmanlike? I learned more from my loses than I ever did from my wins. I learnt to leave it all out on the floor, to give it everything I had, quitting was not an option, that I wouldn't be able to go back and change the clock one it buzzed, to work harder, to be stronger. I learnt to be gracious and kind, how to work with a team. It also taught me that if I wanted to be a winner that I was going to have to be dedicated and committed and that if I wasn't willing to give it everything I had then maybe the sport wasn't where I should be focusing all my attentions, that maybe my talents lied elsewhere. I learned sportsmanship through my experiences, through the small loses AND the BIG ones. And while good sportsmanship is important, it's not the only thing that participating in sports should be teaching kids. Had I always been told how wonderful I was I wouldn't have worked so hard, if I knew I would letter in every sport, I wouldn't have had the same ambition, if I knew that every athlete would be viewed with the same talent, I wouldn't have spent hours in the backyard shooting free throws until after midnight. No, there is much more to learn from participating in sports than just sportsmanship. Being allowed to fail is one of them. Consider it character building instead of an unkindness.
 

Christina...

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momhappy|1380238258|3527974 said:
I have kids in elementary school and each year they have an event called "Field Days" towards the end of the school year. They have different competitions and they have to participate in each one. I still remember when my first came home from kindergarten field days with a handful of ribbons. I gave a congratulatory hug, a high five, and then my little one showed me his ribbons. Much to my dismay, many of the ribbons were called "participation" ribbons (in other words, my kid lost, but they gave out ribbons anyways). Ugh. Seriously? When did losing, which is a normal part of life, not become okay??? They really aren't doing these kids any favors and it's so dysfunctional.


Completely agree! I'm all for positive reinforcement, but when our kids are rewarded for simply showing up, we do them no favors. My kid isn't wonderful because he can suck air, he's wonderful because he's willing to give his all to anything he attempts. If he fails he fails, and the reward is that he was brave enough to try and braver still for trying again. If he succeeds, better still. Either way he takes a lesson away with him that will better prepare him for the next challenge. Shouldn't that be reward enough?
 

TooPatient

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What a bad law!

Test grades...
The middle school "A" attends is starting a new grading system next year. She will, thankfully, be in high school the and the "transitions" this year aren't too bad. The way it was explained to the kids (and e-mail to parents) is that bad test scores won't count against their grades. More specifically, if you leave it blank it doesn't count but if you try and don't do well that will hurt your grade.

We also got info on the fundraiser they are doing. Money goes for their free hot chocolate mornings and new games for th Xbox area in the lunch room. So that is what "A" is doing when she decides to skip lunch (which is most days even though she thinks we don't know) -- great way to build healthy habits... :rolleyes:

Kids are being taught the wrong lessons with all of this stuff. Real life isn't some touchy feely place where expectations are lowered and just sitting there is rewarded the same as hard work and practice.
 

msop04

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TooPatient|1380301761|3528450 said:
What a bad law!

Test grades...
The middle school "A" attends is starting a new grading system next year. She will, thankfully, be in high school the and the "transitions" this year aren't too bad. The way it was explained to the kids (and e-mail to parents) is that bad test scores won't count against their grades. More specifically, if you leave it blank it doesn't count but if you try and don't do well that will hurt your grade.

We also got info on the fundraiser they are doing. Money goes for their free hot chocolate mornings and new games for th Xbox area in the lunch room. So that is what "A" is doing when she decides to skip lunch (which is most days even though she thinks we don't know) -- great way to build healthy habits... :rolleyes:

Kids are being taught the wrong lessons with all of this stuff. Real life isn't some touchy feely place where expectations are lowered and just sitting there is rewarded the same as hard work and practice.

So, let me get this straight...
Try and miss = may hurt you
Don't try at all = no problem

Who comes up with this stuff, and who votes this into being??!! OMG, horrifying!! :nono:
 

TooPatient

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msop04|1380322209|3528583 said:
TooPatient|1380301761|3528450 said:
What a bad law!

Test grades...
The middle school "A" attends is starting a new grading system next year. She will, thankfully, be in high school the and the "transitions" this year aren't too bad. The way it was explained to the kids (and e-mail to parents) is that bad test scores won't count against their grades. More specifically, if you leave it blank it doesn't count but if you try and don't do well that will hurt your grade.

We also got info on the fundraiser they are doing. Money goes for their free hot chocolate mornings and new games for th Xbox area in the lunch room. So that is what "A" is doing when she decides to skip lunch (which is most days even though she thinks we don't know) -- great way to build healthy habits... :rolleyes:

Kids are being taught the wrong lessons with all of this stuff. Real life isn't some touchy feely place where expectations are lowered and just sitting there is rewarded the same as hard work and practice.

So, let me get this straight...
Try and miss = may hurt you
Don't try at all = no problem

Who comes up with this stuff, and who votes this into being??!! OMG, horrifying!! :nono:

That was my reading of the e-mail and also what they were told in class. At least some of the teachers are horrified by this new "better" system.

The high school (at least what I've read in their handbooks) seems to be better. I guess we'll find out next year!
 

Sparklelu

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Re: California's new "Mercy" rule

TooPatient said:
What a bad law!

Test grades...
The middle school "A" attends is starting a new grading system next year. She will, thankfully, be in high school the and the "transitions" this year aren't too bad. The way it was explained to the kids (and e-mail to parents) is that bad test scores won't count against their grades. More specifically, if you leave it blank it doesn't count but if you try and don't do well that will hurt your grade.

We also got info on the fundraiser they are doing. Money goes for their free hot chocolate mornings and new games for th Xbox area in the lunch room. So that is what "A" is doing when she decides to skip lunch (which is most days even though she thinks we don't know) -- great way to build healthy habits... :rolleyes:

Kids are being taught the wrong lessons with all of this stuff. Real life isn't some touchy feely place where expectations are lowered and just sitting there is rewarded the same as hard work and practice.

Oh my!
It's very sad that we are not rewarding kids who work hard and do try.

We are just setting kids up to just not try. why bother??? What kind of jobs are they going to qualify for? How will the students from this school compete academically with kids who go to the other schools?
I hope they change their minds. It may be a trial, they quickly abandon
Pardon me if this is too nosy.. Is it a public school in the US ?
Because the hot chocolate seems to go squarely against the requirements for a school that gets Federal Lunch money. And how in heavens name are they going to have mastery of Common core standards if the kids don't have to pass tests???
 

Sparklelu

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Re: California's new "Mercy" rule

It's not just kids and sports and school where we have the everybody's a winner mentality. Or everyone deserves a prize, it's not worth trying if I don't win.
Saw it first hand in the very recent past.
 

pregcurious

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I read the article, but I have not read all the threads.

What happened to teaching kids how to deal with all different emotions, including getting creamed in a game? I played sports and it happened, and I learned to lose. I also learned how to win without being a jerk.
 

TooPatient

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Re: California's new

Elisateach|1380334704|3528679 said:
TooPatient said:
What a bad law!

Test grades...
The middle school "A" attends is starting a new grading system next year. She will, thankfully, be in high school the and the "transitions" this year aren't too bad. The way it was explained to the kids (and e-mail to parents) is that bad test scores won't count against their grades. More specifically, if you leave it blank it doesn't count but if you try and don't do well that will hurt your grade.

We also got info on the fundraiser they are doing. Money goes for their free hot chocolate mornings and new games for th Xbox area in the lunch room. So that is what "A" is doing when she decides to skip lunch (which is most days even though she thinks we don't know) -- great way to build healthy habits... :rolleyes:

Kids are being taught the wrong lessons with all of this stuff. Real life isn't some touchy feely place where expectations are lowered and just sitting there is rewarded the same as hard work and practice.

Oh my!
It's very sad that we are not rewarding kids who work hard and do try.

We are just setting kids up to just not try. why bother??? What kind of jobs are they going to qualify for? How will the students from this school compete academically with kids who go to the other schools?
I hope they change their minds. It may be a trial, they quickly abandon
Pardon me if this is too nosy.. Is it a public school in the US ?
Because the hot chocolate seems to go squarely against the requirements for a school that gets Federal Lunch money. And how in heavens name are they going to have mastery of Common core standards if the kids don't have to pass tests???

Public middle school in Washington state.

My assumption is that they can use other funds to purchase things like hot chocolate? They also have parties in home room (last year was twice per month or more) with cupcakes, candy, doughnuts, etc. All of this is paid for by "the leadership class" through their magazine sale.


Reality is going to hit some kids awfully hard one day!
You work hard and do your very best with careful planning and MAYBE you get rewarded.
You mess around and don't put any effort in and OFTEN you don't get rewarded.
Reality is that some people who work hard don't get rewarded immediately or sometimes not at all. Better to learn that in small doses and have healthy views than to be protected so that no one wins and no one loses... until graduation.
 

ksinger

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Re: California's new

TooPatient|1380426061|3529153 said:
Elisateach|1380334704|3528679 said:
TooPatient said:
What a bad law!

Test grades...
The middle school "A" attends is starting a new grading system next year. She will, thankfully, be in high school the and the "transitions" this year aren't too bad. The way it was explained to the kids (and e-mail to parents) is that bad test scores won't count against their grades. More specifically, if you leave it blank it doesn't count but if you try and don't do well that will hurt your grade.

We also got info on the fundraiser they are doing. Money goes for their free hot chocolate mornings and new games for th Xbox area in the lunch room. So that is what "A" is doing when she decides to skip lunch (which is most days even though she thinks we don't know) -- great way to build healthy habits... :rolleyes:

Kids are being taught the wrong lessons with all of this stuff. Real life isn't some touchy feely place where expectations are lowered and just sitting there is rewarded the same as hard work and practice.

Oh my!
It's very sad that we are not rewarding kids who work hard and do try.

We are just setting kids up to just not try. why bother??? What kind of jobs are they going to qualify for? How will the students from this school compete academically with kids who go to the other schools?
I hope they change their minds. It may be a trial, they quickly abandon
Pardon me if this is too nosy.. Is it a public school in the US ?
Because the hot chocolate seems to go squarely against the requirements for a school that gets Federal Lunch money. And how in heavens name are they going to have mastery of Common core standards if the kids don't have to pass tests???

Public middle school in Washington state.

My assumption is that they can use other funds to purchase things like hot chocolate? They also have parties in home room (last year was twice per month or more) with cupcakes, candy, doughnuts, etc. All of this is paid for by "the leadership class" through their magazine sale.


Reality is going to hit some kids awfully hard one day!
You work hard and do your very best with careful planning and MAYBE you get rewarded.
You mess around and don't put any effort in and OFTEN you don't get rewarded.
Reality is that some people who work hard don't get rewarded immediately or sometimes not at all. Better to learn that in small doses and have healthy views than to be protected so that no one wins and no one loses... until graduation.

So how is CA's mercy rule not just this? No one said you can't lose, but you just don't get tortured and ground into the dirt along with it. Isn't that learning about losing in "small doses"?
 

ksinger

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Re: California's new

Elisateach|1380334704|3528679 said:
TooPatient said:
What a bad law!

Test grades...
The middle school "A" attends is starting a new grading system next year. She will, thankfully, be in high school the and the "transitions" this year aren't too bad. The way it was explained to the kids (and e-mail to parents) is that bad test scores won't count against their grades. More specifically, if you leave it blank it doesn't count but if you try and don't do well that will hurt your grade.

We also got info on the fundraiser they are doing. Money goes for their free hot chocolate mornings and new games for th Xbox area in the lunch room. So that is what "A" is doing when she decides to skip lunch (which is most days even though she thinks we don't know) -- great way to build healthy habits... :rolleyes:

Kids are being taught the wrong lessons with all of this stuff. Real life isn't some touchy feely place where expectations are lowered and just sitting there is rewarded the same as hard work and practice.

Oh my!
It's very sad that we are not rewarding kids who work hard and do try.

We are just setting kids up to just not try. why bother??? What kind of jobs are they going to qualify for? How will the students from this school compete academically with kids who go to the other schools?
I hope they change their minds. It may be a trial, they quickly abandon
Pardon me if this is too nosy.. Is it a public school in the US ?
Because the hot chocolate seems to go squarely against the requirements for a school that gets Federal Lunch money. And how in heavens name are they going to have mastery of Common core standards if the kids don't have to pass tests???

It will likely get shot down if the parents actually object instead of just whining amongst themselves. At least they got notified. As often as not this 50 base stuff gets implemented on the down low, and rammed down the throats of the teachers, who are made to understand if they talk about it, their jobs are on the line.

And since no one really knows how Common Core - which is so vague as to be virtually and certainly practically untestable - is going to be adequately tested, that's not such a horrible thing. No one believes the computer companies who say they will soon have the magic software (and I write software, and the mere thought makes my head hurt) that will be able to grade essays, or if it does, that it will be done correctly. And how many states will actually have the money to buy and administer said tests anyway?
 

amc80

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momhappy|1380238258|3527974 said:
I have kids in elementary school and each year they have an event called "Field Days" towards the end of the school year. They have different competitions and they have to participate in each one. I still remember when my first came home from kindergarten field days with a handful of ribbons. I gave a congratulatory hug, a high five, and then my little one showed me his ribbons. Much to my dismay, many of the ribbons were called "participation" ribbons (in other words, my kid lost, but they gave out ribbons anyways). Ugh. Seriously? When did losing, which is a normal part of life, not become okay??? They really aren't doing these kids any favors and it's so dysfunctional.

This reminds me of something that happened to me way back when. When I was 6 or 7 I was on a coed baseball team. There was one boy who was clearly better than anyone else on the team. When the night came for team awards, he was called up for MVP. We all knew he would get it, and he deserved it. Then, one by one, the rest of the team was called up and given the same MVP trophy. Even at the young age of 7 I knew it was just a feel good award and that I wasn't the real MVP. Really, what's the point of giving an award when everyone gets the same one, regardless of performance?
 

House Cat

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Please hear me out.

People believe failure teaches people the lesson of success. There are many who will argue against this. They will argue that watching other's triumphs is what teaches the lesson of success. They will also argue that experiencing success for themselves, feeling the good feeling of succeeding is what makes a person strive for MORE success.

Think about it. When a child is born, we are constantly encouraging that child. We WANT that child to feel the positive feelings of success for every small feat in order for that child to thrive. As the child grows, the feats grow with the child, we continue to encourage. It is that encouragement that makes the child WANT to continue to succeed.

If you take a child and constantly discourage him. He will fail to thrive, period.


What exactly does failure teach? How to feel bad? So what everyone is saying on this thread is that they want the children to experience failure so they can feel bad, so they can do what they can to avoid feeling that way again, right? That sounds like anxiety to me, not striving for success.

While I do not agree with "participation ribbons," I do agree with finding each person's gift and complimenting them on that gift. This isn't to say that we don't award the MVP. But I would like to see us award the MVP and the kid with the most positive attitude on the team as well. Things get much more competitive in high school and the kid with the most positive attitude probably won't even make the team. Knowing his own gifts for positive attitude will probably take him elsewhere, like drama or AP Chemistry. It is important to acknowledge all gifts and encourage all aspects of the child.

Failure IS a part of life, but I don't believe in teaching by it.
 

Indylady

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Housecat, I agree. I'm not outraged either. I don't really see a gain in making kids feel bad for losing a soccer game; they'll still know who won the game and who lost, and I don't see the point difference or a ribbon changing that. The Mercy Rule is unlikely create a big behavioral change in kids. I do think it might help self-esteem and a positive attitude, and that really is valuable.

My parents were always incredibly supportive of me growing up, even when I faced minor failures and rejections, such as losing a game--that really, really helped me face rejections from other parts of my life, such as college admissions, jobs, graduate school admissions, etc. They didn't make me feel awful for failing. That helped me keep going, and keep trying, because I knew they wouldn't give me heat for losing a game or not getting into a certain program. Knowing that failure is ok, helped me take more shots over the years. I see my classmates freak out over a few bad grades, I see them beat themselves up over it, and then I see them give up and lose so much confidence that they won't apply for jobs that they think that they won't get--they're so scared of the sting of failure that they won't even make an attempt. There are bigger inevitable lessons that children will learn from failure in life; I'm ok with this Mercy Rule.
 

msop04

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House Cat|1380640611|3530109 said:
Please hear me out.

People believe failure teaches people the lesson of success. There are many who will argue against this. They will argue that watching other's triumphs is what teaches the lesson of success. They will also argue that experiencing success for themselves, feeling the good feeling of succeeding is what makes a person strive for MORE success.

Think about it. When a child is born, we are constantly encouraging that child. We WANT that child to feel the positive feelings of success for every small feat in order for that child to thrive. As the child grows, the feats grow with the child, we continue to encourage. It is that encouragement that makes the child WANT to continue to succeed.

If you take a child and constantly discourage him. He will fail to thrive, period.

What exactly does failure teach? How to feel bad? So what everyone is saying on this thread is that they want the children to experience failure so they can feel bad, so they can do what they can to avoid feeling that way again, right? That sounds like anxiety to me, not striving for success.

Failure IS a part of life, but I don't believe in teaching by it.

How is opposition to a "Mercy Rule" the same as constantly discouraging children? How does it teach failure? I don't get that at all.

Why is it necessary for a law to be implemented for children to feel the positive feelings of success? Isn't that the sort of thing that parents and coaches are supposed to instill in these children? I believe mercy rules do the opposite of what they are intended to do... Kids are not dumb. How embarrassing would it be for a child to know that his/her game was ended or that the other team was not allowed to score any more points because they were beating them so badly?? If one team is beating another that badly, isn't it that much worse to make a big deal out of it by enforcing a law to end it altogether?? That's like saying, "Well, pack it up kids... they've officially beaten us so badly that we can't even play the rest of the game as it's intended... sorry." To me, that's way more psychologically detrimental than just getting beaten badly. ::)

It's really a slap in the face to the kids that may just want to be out there and play -- because it's fun for them. Not to mention that it's adding insult to injury after a really bad loss. It's making a big deal over something that just isn't -- it's a "feel good" rule for parents or society in general that makes kids feel worse...

Edited for grammar.
 

House Cat

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msop04|1380654055|3530264 said:
House Cat|1380640611|3530109 said:
Please hear me out.

People believe failure teaches people the lesson of success. There are many who will argue against this. They will argue that watching other's triumphs is what teaches the lesson of success. They will also argue that experiencing success for themselves, feeling the good feeling of succeeding is what makes a person strive for MORE success.

Think about it. When a child is born, we are constantly encouraging that child. We WANT that child to feel the positive feelings of success for every small feat in order for that child to thrive. As the child grows, the feats grow with the child, we continue to encourage. It is that encouragement that makes the child WANT to continue to succeed.

If you take a child and constantly discourage him. He will fail to thrive, period.

What exactly does failure teach? How to feel bad? So what everyone is saying on this thread is that they want the children to experience failure so they can feel bad, so they can do what they can to avoid feeling that way again, right? That sounds like anxiety to me, not striving for success.

Failure IS a part of life, but I don't believe in teaching by it.

How is opposition to a "Mercy Rule" the same as constantly discouraging children? How does it teach failure? I don't get that at all.

Why is it necessary for a law to be implemented for children to feel the positive feelings of success? Isn't that the sort of thing that parents and coaches are supposed to instill in these children? I believe mercy rules do the opposite of what they are intended to do... Kids are not dumb. How embarrassing would it be for a child to know that his/her game was ended or that the other team was not allowed to score any more points because they were beating them so badly?? If one team is beating another that badly, isn't it that much worse to make a big deal out of it by enforcing a law to end it altogether?? That's like saying, "Well, pack it up kids... they've officially beaten us so badly that we can't even play the rest of the game as it's intended... sorry." To me, that's way more psychologically detrimental than just getting beaten badly. ::)

It's really a slap in the face to the kids that may just want to be out there and play -- because it's fun for them. Not to mention that it's adding insult to injury after a really bad loss. It's making a big deal over something that just isn't -- it's a "feel good" rule for parents or society in general that makes kids feel worse...

Edited for grammar.
Whether or not someone supports this "Mercy Rule" seems to be secondary on this thread. I have read again and again on this thread that people believe that failure is a great teacher. I am simply stating that I feel that success is a better teacher.

I said early on in this thread that I do not support this Mercy Rule.

To respond to your point, I'm not sure there is a child on this planet who would want to continue playing any game where they are getting absolutely creamed. There is no fun in it. As you said, kids are not dumb. To have a game drag on and on, knowing that there is no chance in winning is probably just torture. The reason I don't support the Mercy Rule is not because it shields them from failure but because it teaches kids to quit when things get tough. Sometimes we have to keep working even when we know we won't have the most perfect, originally desired outcome.
 

amc80

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House Cat|1380663687|3530354 said:
I have read again and again on this thread that people believe that failure is a great teacher. I am simply stating that I feel that success is a better teacher.

I think life is a great teacher. Failure, success, and everything in between.

House Cat said:
The reason I don't support the Mercy Rule is not because it shields them from failure but because it teaches kids to quit when things get tough. Sometimes we have to keep working even when we know we won't have the most perfect, originally desired outcome.

Well said (although I dislike the Mercy Rule for other reasons, as well).
 

msop04

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amc80|1380664490|3530366 said:
I think life is a great teacher. Failure, success, and everything in between.

House Cat said:
The reason I don't support the Mercy Rule is not because it shields them from failure but because it teaches kids to quit when things get tough. Sometimes we have to keep working even when we know we won't have the most perfect, originally desired outcome.

Well said (although I dislike the Mercy Rule for other reasons, as well).

+1 amc80!

@House Cat: It's no secret that, when given the choice of success or failure, one will choose success... As amc stated, life isn't always about extreme success or extreme failure, but we need a little of both every now and then to be able to handle what life can hand us -- good, bad, and all things in between. I don't think children benefit by experiencing only failure, just as they will not benefit by experiencing all things feel good or success. If we want them to grow up to be well-rounded adults capable of dealing with life, then we shouldn't stop them from experiencing the realities associated with living it.
 

blackprophet

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I figured as a Football Coach I'd put my two cents in.

I don't agree with the rule as it is written. If it were me I would put it at around 63. Or I wouldve kept their previous rule of if you win more than 35, you have to fillout a crapload of paperwork and/or your next game will be audited. But I do agree with the spirit of the rule.

Allow me to explain:

1) There are A LOT of bad coaches out there. In football especially. And especially at the minor level (where there is no training or credentials needed) I suspect this rule has more to do with the coaches than with the kids. I've seen some things on the field that would shock the heck out of you. So there needs to be rules in place that prevent coaches from just running up the score uneccessarily. In a league I coached in, if the score was out of hand, they would run the clock, not stop it for changes of posession etc. Just gets the game over quicker. With a rule like this in place (and not this rule specifically, as I've said its a little too strict) you teach the kids about sportsmanship, even if their coach refuses to (and there are a lot of coaches who wont).

2) Secondly I can smypathise with the want to keep kids playing. Football is dependent on numbers. With 1 players on the fireld at any given time (12 in Canada :lol:), you need around 24 kids. Every time a kid quits, the whole team suffers, no matter how good or bad that kid is. Attrition happens on every football team, and the more kids quit, the closer that team comes to folding, which ultimately hurts the kids who stick it out. I don't agree with taking this route, but I can understand where he's coming from.

As a few people have said, kids know when the game is over, whether it has actually ended or not.
 

msop04

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Good point, blackprophet... nice to hear from a coach's standpoint. :))
 

ericad

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I'm from more of an old school style of parenting, but here are my rambling observations.

All this "participation ribbon" stuff should be scaled based on age. Participation ribbons for 4 year olds is a different issue than participation ribbons for 12 year olds. Most people could make the argument that it's a good idea for littler ones, to help encourage a desire to participate in sports without a negative experience, yet it's totally weird for older kids.

My DD is a competitive figure skater. When she was little and competing in low levels, all the kids got a medal. The medals were all different colors, and the kids were still scored and ranked, but each kid got a medal for participating and got their picture taken. As she got into higher levels of competition, only the top 5 kids got medals. And eventually only the top 3. All the while, the kids are still ranked into 1st place, 2nd place, etc.

At even a very young age, when DD came in last that participation medal didn't matter. She knew she was last. The first time it happened she cried. The next time it happened she vowed that it would never happen again, and she's worked really hard and placed in the top 3 consistently ever since. The participation medal didn't lessen her experience - she was motivated to succeed and never felt that a participation medal was good enough, and she certainly feels no sense of entitlement whatsoever when she competes. She figured out pretty quickly that being 1st feels better than being 6th, and that was enough to motivate her. So IMO, participation medals do no harm or good really - kids are smart and it's human nature to want to succeed and win. Now that she is moving into a level where the scoring system is a bit different, her coach's mentality is that she should compete against herself each time she steps onto the ice (seek self-improvement and not worry about ranking). DD isn't buying this, lol. She's super competitive and wants to win. This comes from within her, even with participation medals and soccer matches where the refs don't keep score, and all of the other coddling she's received in childhood.

IMO it's much ado about nothing.
 
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