Are H&A TOO perfect? and other dilemmas

[diamondseeker2006]

I am having all kinds of conflicting feelings about my diamond specifications. I have been to look at diamonds a couple of times, and I did not really "love" any of them (which was good since they were mostly overpriced!). However, they were pretty much all nice premium cut stones and I really could not tell that much difference between them. There seem to be few ideal cut stones around unless you go to a Tiffany''s level store.

I know this may sound like heresy on this forum, but I wonder if H&A stones are TOO perfect...as in too much like a CZ rather than a completely hand-cut diamond? Can any of you who have had the opportunity to compare both comment on how you felt about looking at both? When I see those magnified images of the arrows on some of the sites, I can''t help but think, they all look alike! Yet I am hearing on this site that they are truly the most beautiful diamonds and superior ot others when seen side by side!

Here is my other problem. I know size is valued on this list and believe me, I LOVE seeing the big diamonds! I have worn a 1 ct. for the last 29 years and none of my friends or co-workers (I am a teacher) has above 1 ct.(that I am aware of). I do not want to appear that I am showing off in having a large diamond. I am try to decide between 1.3 range or 1.5. The 1.3 probably would even cause attention because it is a small step up from my 1 ct. (other than the setting may draw attention if it is very different from my current rings). I tried on two 1.5''s yesterday and they were a wonderful size but look pretty big on my size 5 finger. If I lived with all of you, I''d be deciding between the 1.5 and 1.9!

I was about to look at a 1.6 H stone until my check got lost in the mail and I had the chance to see an H next to a G, and that particular H was definitely warm. I just preferred the whiteness of the G. But to be fair, the H was an EGL, so who knows what it really was. The other problem with the H stone is that there is no trade-up for it, so I couldn''t upgrade the color later if I decided I preferred G or whatever.

I am really confused now, although I am almost back to where I started wanting a G, VS between 1.33 and 1.5! Just not sure about whether the H&A are worth the premium when I can guarantee not one person I know would have ever heard of it!

Thanks for any wise advice you can offer!

 

[princessv]

You know what''s funny is I have received comments that my Jubilee diamond looks so perfect it looks fake.

But I think it was meant more as a compliment so I really wasn''t insulted.

So here was my experience with color. In regular B&M stores when my fiance was looking for a princess cut diamond for me, I could spot the difference between a G to H it seemed from a mile away so anything lower than F wasn''t going to cut it. Fast forward to me finding PS and falling in love with the Jubilee online. At the time GOG didn''t have what I wanted in Jubilees (D-F VVS). Here I thought I had too much of an eagle eye.

Anyway, the developer/cutter of the Jubilees had one in my specs D VVS2 .85 ct and he absolutely insisted on sending a 1.05 H SI1. When I saw those two stones the only difference I saw was a teeny bit of color (only when held next to each other) and the size difference

! Needless to say, we went for the bigger H.

My advice to you is compare some super ideal cuts up close. Worse comes to worse go compare some HOF diamonds at a B&M (wayyy overpriced but you''ll get the idea) and see if you still can detect color.

As far as size...well 1.3 to 1.5 well I don''t think 1.5 is too large. I wear a 4.75-5 and thought a 2 ct looked better!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks, Princess! I now remember your custom ring from Quest. It will be beautiful!!! Well, there are not many options to look at HOF stones. There were only a couple of places in Charlotte that had them, and I didn''t have time yesterday to go to them. Three jewelry stores in a day was about all I could manage! And after Tiffany''s, I just felt uncomfortable going into another store like that and asking to look at diamonds. I felt like they would just KNOW that I wasn''t really going to buy a diamond from them!

 

[princessv]

If I recall correctly Christian Bernard at SouthPark and I think Perry''s might too.

In Christian Bernard I had terrible customer service I think because they knew I wasn''t buying anything either.

It was nice to see the HOF Dream though.

Thanks for the compliment!

 

[Diam100]

Well I have seen a H&A & an Ideal Cut diamond. To be honest the Ideal Cut looked about the same to me. So for me a diamond purchase would be based on how my eyes love it. My decision won''t be based on the branded H&A name. I feel for you on the confused front. I tried on a few halo rings this past week and well lets just say I felt it looked better on someone else''s finger. As for the diamond specs I go one day feeling yes I want a round, to no I want a fancy shape and than back to I must be crazy to take my Tiffany Pear off my finger. The only thing that hasn''t changed is a high color preference & vs clarity everything else changes like the weather.

I do think it''s going to take me a long time to figure this stuff out. So don''t beat yourself up and when you finally decide & fall in love with a stone you''ll know. At least that''s how I feel about my existing ring. I''m now considering if I ever upgrade to wear my current pear half the week & wear the new one the other half. Call me crazy!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Diam100, at least I am not alone! I wondered if there is something wrong with me! I am also firm on the VS part. It''s good to have one thing settled! And I do have a fondness for my current rings which as just a simple 1 ct. in a yg tiffany and a 3 mm flat band with a few bead set diamonds. They are classic and still very pretty to me, but I would like a higher quality diamond that is a little larger, and I''d like to switch to white metal (and the 18K wg/palladium vs. platinum is another issue I have not resolved!).

One of the vendors has 2 H&A diamonds right now that fall into my parameters but they are at the upper and lower end of my size range. So I am thinking that once I see the pictures, I may just let my husband decide and surprise me!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think a Tiffany pear is wonderful, and the more I think about it, I think the ideal plan is to have a diamond wedding band and several different solitaire rings in different shapes that could be worn with it!

 

[Diam100]

Well heck your way ahead of me at least you narrowed down the shape (lol). I was thinking about putting my pear in a pendant but I definitely like the idea more & more of keeping my ring and just varying the day I wear it. Now if I tell my husband after we purchase number two diamond one day I want a third I think he''ll have a heart attack. So I''m trying to stick to my guns on color & clarity because this is going to be the last upgrade & to be honest I really hate shopping for diamonds (I can''t believe I said that). It''s just so hard to make up your mind on such an expensive purchase and I can''t stand second guessing myself.

I think your plan is wonderful and if I ever narrow things down to two diamonds I am going to let my husband pick as well. Good luck.

 

[blodthecat]

Well if you didn''t want to go for the H&A, then why not have a look at Whiteflash ''expert selection''

If you are going to upgrade though, go at least to 1.5ct. If you are not going to see a noticable increase in size, then why bother. And forget what other people might think.....we can''t make our own choices if we are always thinking of what others might think.

You go girl....get your self something you''re really going to enjoy!

Bloddie

 

[Mara]

I think those arrow pictures magnified on the sites can be misleading...there is no way the diamond looks like that in person. It''s just a way to show how symmetrical and beautiful the stone is cut (the mag pictures) and also to show that the arrows are present and that the stone is eye-clean (or not).

For me personally, I had a non-idea spready shallow brilliant round stone originally. It was really pretty and in certain situations it really came alive. But in other situations, esp situations where other PS''ers said their diamond was just fantabulous...mine seemed to lack something.

When I got an ideal cut stone, or more aptly when my husband did for his ring, it really showed us the difference in how the two stones performed in various lighting conditions. It made a believer out of both of us and he was skeptical because before he thought my stone was ''good enough''.

I think if you can see something like that side by side it may help you visually, it doesn''t have to be the precise H&A cut...to me some of the Expert Selection stones look just as good as H&A because I don''t have expert eyes, but basically you will see a difference between a not quite so precise cut stone and one that was cut with more attention to quality.

Then again not everyone loves H&A''s or even stones with arrows. That''s why there are those more chaotic extra faceted stones...they create more sparkle and less symmetry in the stone visually. Or some people would LOVE a stone like the one I had originally, or one that was alot more fiery and deep. But for me I have found that my happiness is more at the ''midway'' point with something like a very precisely cut almost H&A where I can see the arrows in certain lighting conditions but really what makes me happy about these stones is that they seem to look their best in most lighting situations, I can only think of one or two instances where my stone doesn''t really pop (aka sunlight).

So you have to find your happy point, but I would not necessarily look for a great comparison between something like an H&A and a very precise almost H&A/ideal cut stone...but rather look at a not so well cut stone and an ideal (even non H&A) and how they sparkle and you will see what I mean IMO.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 1/28/2006 12:37:41 PM
Author: Diam100
Well heck your way ahead of me at least you narrowed down the shape (lol). I was thinking about putting my pear in a pendant but I definitely like the idea more & more of keeping my ring and just varying the day I wear it. Now if I tell my husband after we purchase number two diamond one day I want a third I think he''ll have a heart attack. So I''m trying to stick to my guns on color & clarity because this is going to be the last upgrade & to be honest I really hate shopping for diamonds (I can''t believe I said that). It''s just so hard to make up your mind on such an expensive purchase and I can''t stand second guessing myself.

I think your plan is wonderful and if I ever narrow things down to two diamonds I am going to let my husband pick as well. Good luck.

Yes! And good luck to you, too! I expect this to be my first and last upgrade as well, so I need to make the right choice this time!

Mara, thanks for all your thoughts on this! It really does help me! I have been diamond shopping a few times, but I haven''t been able to see these kinds of diamonds. All the jewelers I''ve been to mostly carry premium cut, although they charge Ideal cut prices!

Thank you, too, Blod!

 

[Lynn B]

Totally agree with Mara... these 40x mag photos we post around here can give a person a misguided notion about H&A stones. Some newbies have mentioned that they thought the arrows were always visible and prominent and "always showed up black"!

My MIL had a lovely OMC diamond ring and it was a more "chaotic" type of look and sparkle. It "glittered" while my H&A throws off larger, bolder flashes of color. (Of course my stone was almost a carat larger, so that probably had something to do with it... but even taking that into consideration, it was still a totally different "look".)

I ADORE my H&A. I love the symmetry and the "perfection" of it. I love catching little glimpses of the arrows, especially when they are shining with color and fire... and whenever I see a non H&A round, to me, it always looks somewhat... "lacking".

 

[valeria101]

Date: 1/28/2006 9:10:26 AM
Author:diamondseeker2006


I know this may sound like heresy on this forum, but I wonder if H&A stones are TOO perfect...as in too much like a CZ rather than a completely hand-cut diamond? [...] When I see those magnified images of the arrows on some of the sites, I can't help but think, they all look alike!

I.e. 'industrial chick'?

AstroTurf aesthetics!

Seriously now: I'm guessing cut precision has gone well beyond what makes any visual impact. Between seeing a pattern (the arrows that Linn and Mara mention, but there can be others) on a round brilliant and 'correct' H&A there is some distance technically and a premium to pay. Could that be the space reserved for obsessive perfectionists? Just a guess...

If any diamonds are cut by some completely automated process, I don't know... perhaps not. It sounds like by 'hand cut' you mean something different - more about style then technological process. Am I wrong?





I am really confused now, although I am almost back to where I started wanting a G, VS between 1.33 and 1.5! Just not sure about whether the H&A are worth the premium when I can guarantee not one person I know would have ever heard of it!

It sounds like H&A does not mean anything to you, but probably there is some level of cut quality that does because at some point there is a difference between train-smash cut style and something that actually shows off the unique optics of diamonds.

Btw, if you can check some properly graded H and Si, it may be worth investigating - not just because of cost, but weights between 1.3 and 1.5 as you are considering are not so popular and it may help widening the search for the right thing. G-VS is quite a safe bet anyway. IMO at least.

 

[MrsFrk]

You just need to find a stone that sings to you.
Take meeeeeeeee!!!!
A friend of mine purchased an Ideal cut online, and it is just scrumptious- it just seems to be alive!
Another acquaintance has a branded HOF- it is beautiful, no doubt- but it doesn''t have that extra sumthin''.
On the other hand, I have a non-ideal, very sparkly diamond that I inherited, and it is one of the prettiest I have ever seen.
I think that they your eyes should be the definitive instrument; there have been people here that see stones that have everything right in terms of the #s, and they feel like there is something wrong with THEM, because they just don''t see it and feel it.

 

[ladykemma]

I have 2 ideal cut stones. one just sits there. It was the one i bought before I knew any better.

the other screamed at me from a jewelers case and i bought it rather spontaneously - from zales.

I have several non ideal rounds. they are all pretty each in a different way. My canterbury england junk store stone has a european larger table. I love it.

I even have a round that is "out of round" and a shallow crown. It was a pendant that I found lying on the ground. It is now a ring. it has lots of brilliance and scintillation but not much fire. it has a pleasing personality.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think the most recent three posts make a good point that beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to diamonds. That is what makes internet shopping so difficult! I had never heard of hearts and arrows until coming on PS, so that would not have even been a consideration when I first thought of getting a new diamond! So I guess that is why it is confusing to me...I thought Ideal cut was the top and that was it!

On the other hand, the H&A''s do offer some consistency in appearance (except that I have only seen pictures of them) and you have no idea what the other ideal cuts really look like from the statistics. I have been considering a premium, almost ideal cut, but I am having a few reservations about the color, size, and good to very good polish and symmetry. It is just a lot of time and trouble to pay for diamonds to be sent to look at and then send them back! And I am really not so interested in the virtual diamonds...I want to only focus on the ones in stock. So that narrows down the list a lot.

 

[lmurden]

I think you should let your eyes be the judge because you are the one who has to live with the diamond. Also 1.35 - 1.50 is perfect in my opinion because it is not too big but noticeable in a lovely way. Lastly, in my opinion H&A are great if that is what you want, but for me getting a branded or a perfect diamond wasn''t important to me. I let me eyes do the judging. I’m lucky because it''s nice having arrows but it isn''t everything.
Good luck.

 

[ladykemma]

well, i am embarrased to admit this but last week, i saw a beautifully cut diamond at sears. wow, i couldn't take my eyes off it. all the dimensions were perfect and it was a stunner.

the cut was lovely, but it was not eye clean. it was a perfect example of why cut is the most important thing., because you really had to look past the sparkle to see the inclusions.

still, it would have been in the running if I had been in the market for another round. but i was in the market for a jacket.

 

[Lorelei]

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder or the wearer of the diamond. Look at as many as you can, Ideal Cuts, H&A and those with less than ideal proportions which " work." See which make your heart sing and go with that proudly and don't worry about it being less than Ideal if that is what you choose and like best. Different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Diamonds are supposed to be exciting and magical and individual, cut is incredibly important but in the end it is up to your own eyes as to what is the best fit for you and bring you the most happiness.

 

[Mara]

I also wanted to mention that there are also nuances from some ideal or superideal to another that sometimes really speak to people!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, to complicate matters, of the two that I am looking at from WF, one is classic and the other is new line! So how the heck does one choose from those without seeing them side by side?!

 

[Mara]

Two ways...the first is not necessarily a TRUE method of how they will look in person necessarily but you can have WF take side by side images of the stones in natural lighting, aka on someone''s finger or similar. This will give you a little bit of an idea how the two stones perform.

But the best way is to have them ship both to an independent appraiser near you where you can see the stones side by side and choose your favorite in person and also get the appraiser''s opinion as well.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I like the picture idea. That would probably help. I''ll ask them to do that. It would also help to see the difference in the two sizes of diamonds. But the only independent appraiser listed was several hours away, and that just is too much trouble. I may as well fly to Houston, but that is money I''d rather spend on the ring!